Here is why Love ends up in Boston.

[Monkhouse]

Let's get the "rich man, poor man" stuff out of the way and point out one glaring fact.

Love is a far better player than Sully.

13.3 points
7.6 rebounds
2.3 assists
0.8 steals
0.7 blocks
27 minutes
44% FG
28% 3PT
74% FT
PER: 17.9
$1.4 million

vs

16.4 points
9.7 rebounds
2.2 assists
0.7 steals
0.5 blocks
34 minutes
43% FG
36% 3PT
80% FT
PER: 18.8
$15.6 million

So for an 11x ($14.2m) increase in salary you are getting...

+3.1 points
+2.1 rebounds
-0.1 assists
-0.1 steals
-0.2 blocks
-0.1% FG
+0.8% 3PT
+0.6% FT
+6.8 minutes
+09 PER

Do you really describe that as a "FAR better" player?  Do you really consider that good value for money?

Basically the only significant improvements there are 3PT% and FT% - outside of that you are essentially look at the same player.

Yes.

Love was the 3rd option, and still managed to have far better numbers than Sully this year.

I think people also really don't understand how much tougher the West and East conferences are... Do people think Sully would average per 36 the '17 and 10,' that people supposedly say he could average?

Anyways, I would love to keep Sullinger. I think ironically the player Sullinger is trying to model himself after could also end up on the team, would only do wonders for his motivation and his conditioning from a personal perspective.

Personally, I think Love can be the go to option, but he needs to be on a team where its built to help him succeed. I don't think hes as talented as Dirk, but getting a 3 and D at SG or SF, and a Center that can rebound, and help on defense is key.

I think players like Iggy or Tyson Chandler would be extremely useful, if we acquired Kevin Love in the FA.

[crimson_stallion]

Love is 26 years old and is averaging per-36 numbers of 17.5 points, 10.4 rebounds, 2.4 assists, 0.7 steals and 0.6 blocks while shooting 43% / 36% / 80% and is earning $15.7 million.

. . .

If you have Love you're getting 16.4 points, 9.7 rebounds, 2.2 assists, 0.7 steals and 0.5 blocks on 43% / 36% / 80% in 33.8 minutes for $15.7 million.

Except the numbers for Love this season are on a team where he is the third option. His numbers from MIN, where he was a focal point of the offense, seem more appropriate: 26.1 points, 12.5 rebs, 4.4 asists, 0.8 steals, and 0.5 blocks on 46% / 38% / 82% in 36.3 minutes of action last season, for example.

That kind of production is well worth the price.

Yes, and funnily enough Sully was the 3rd option for most of the year, behind Jeff Green and Avery Bradley.  He also on a team that takes a 'strength in numbers' approach to offense, where the entire basis of the offense is to make the most of the depth on the team, and not give too much offensive focus to any one player. 

So if you put Love in that same offensive scheme, it's not likely the result would be very different.  This offensive scheme (and roster makeup) is very different to the one Love was a part of in Minnesota, where he was a very clear #1 option and ALL offense went through him. 

Anyhow despite Love's huge role in that offense and his fancy on paper box score numbers, how many playoff appearances did he make while there?

See Sully and Olynyk both have one key advantage over Kevin Love.  They both managed to make the playoffs within their third NBA season, despite not playing with a single star teammate.

Kevin Love played 5 seasons without a superstar teammate, but he had Kevin Martin and Nikola Pekovic, who are probably closer to 'star' players than anybody on this Celtics Roster.  Yet he didn't make the playoffs once.  Now the first season he makes the playoffs it's with the support of two superstar teammates - or more likely those teammates carried the team, and Love was their support.  Any delusions that Love had much to do with carrying that team can be written off based on the fact that the said team is now in the NBA finals, after winning the last two playoff series WITHOUT Love.

[GetLucky]

Crimson, it's important to realize the context of the statistics you're using. Kevin Love is on the same team as LeBron James and Kyrie Irving, the team representing the Eastern Conference in the NBA Finals, and yet he still averaged more points and rebounds per game than Jared Sullinger, who played on the 7th seed, swept-in-the-first-round Boston Celtics. While doing this, Love maintained much higher efficiency and free throw rate. Add that to the fact that Love has proven he can maintain his efficiency with a higher usage rate while Jared Sullinger has not, and you can reach the conclusion that Love is a big upgrade worth the cost.

That, and Love fills two of the Celtics' biggest needs: versatile scoring and defensive rebounding. How many times this year (or even the Cleveland series) did the lack of a go-to scorer or the lack of ability to close out defenisive possessions cost the team wins? I think anyone here can say with a straight face that they almost broke a few things watching Tristan Thomspon get his 7th offensive rebound in a game, and I can certainly tell you that seeing the team play hot potato for stretches was also brutal.

[crimson_stallion]

Yes.

Love was the 3rd option, and still managed to have far better numbers than Sully this year.

I think people also really don't understand how much tougher the West and East conferences are...

So getting 22% more points, 27% more rebounds, and a 5% higher PER, in an extra 25% playing time, is what you would describe as "far better numbers"?

Interesting...

[Monkhouse]

Love is 26 years old and is averaging per-36 numbers of 17.5 points, 10.4 rebounds, 2.4 assists, 0.7 steals and 0.6 blocks while shooting 43% / 36% / 80% and is earning $15.7 million.

. . .

If you have Love you're getting 16.4 points, 9.7 rebounds, 2.2 assists, 0.7 steals and 0.5 blocks on 43% / 36% / 80% in 33.8 minutes for $15.7 million.

Except the numbers for Love this season are on a team where he is the third option. His numbers from MIN, where he was a focal point of the offense, seem more appropriate: 26.1 points, 12.5 rebs, 4.4 asists, 0.8 steals, and 0.5 blocks on 46% / 38% / 82% in 36.3 minutes of action last season, for example.

That kind of production is well worth the price.

Yes, and funnily enough Sully was the 3rd option for most of the year, behind Jeff Green and Avery Bradley.  He also on a team that takes a 'strength in numbers' approach to offense, where the entire basis of the offense is to make the most of the depth on the team, and not give too much offensive focus to any one player. 

So if you put Love in that same offensive scheme, it's not likely the result would be very different.  This offensive scheme (and roster makeup) is very different to the one Love was a part of in Minnesota, where he was a very clear #1 option and ALL offense went through him. 

Anyhow despite Love's huge role in that offense and his fancy on paper box score numbers, how many playoff appearances did he make while there?

See Sully and Olynyk both have one key advantage over Kevin Love.  They both managed to make the playoffs within their third NBA season, despite not playing with a single star teammate.

Kevin Love played 5 seasons without a superstar teammate, but he had Kevin Martin and Nikola Pekovic, who are probably closer to 'star' players than anybody on this Celtics Roster.  Yet he didn't make the playoffs once.  Now the first season he makes the playoffs it's with the support of two superstar teammates - or more likely those teammates carried the team, and Love was their support.  Any delusions that Love had much to do with carrying that team can be written off based on the fact that the said team is now in the NBA finals, after winning the last two playoff series WITHOUT Love.

Any team in the West could make the playoffs in the East. Like I said, and stats have shown the Wolves should've made the playoffs last year; they were the best team to not make it.

I don't think we were even supposed to make the playoffs, but it only goes to show how many weak teams there are in the East.

Yes.

Love was the 3rd option, and still managed to have far better numbers than Sully this year.

I think people also really don't understand how much tougher the West and East conferences are...

So getting 22% more points, 27% more rebounds, and a 5% higher PER, in an extra 25% playing time, is what you would describe as "far better numbers"?

Interesting...

I think its more impressive when you take into account the discrepancy of talent of East versus the West... You got the Bulls, Wizards, Hawks and Cavs, but then you got teams like the Grizzlies, OKC, GSW, Blazers, Spurs, Clippers, etc, that could all beat any team in the East in the playoffs.

You don't think a player like Love on our team, would've elevated us to top 3-5 seed?

No matter how you slice it, Love is worth a max, whereas Sullinger is not. Just my personal opinion, I don't firmly believe Sullinger can never break out, its just his motivation and desire to make himself better.

[gpap]

Because Boston has an apparent obsession with slow, undersized, jump-shot-jacking power forwards who are scared of defense?

Funny, it seems to me some fans have an obsession with young, unproven players over players who have established themselves in this league.

[Lucky17]

Love is 26 years old and is averaging per-36 numbers of 17.5 points, 10.4 rebounds, 2.4 assists, 0.7 steals and 0.6 blocks while shooting 43% / 36% / 80% and is earning $15.7 million.

. . .

If you have Love you're getting 16.4 points, 9.7 rebounds, 2.2 assists, 0.7 steals and 0.5 blocks on 43% / 36% / 80% in 33.8 minutes for $15.7 million.

Except the numbers for Love this season are on a team where he is the third option. His numbers from MIN, where he was a focal point of the offense, seem more appropriate: 26.1 points, 12.5 rebs, 4.4 asists, 0.8 steals, and 0.5 blocks on 46% / 38% / 82% in 36.3 minutes of action last season, for example.

That kind of production is well worth the price.

Yes, and funnily enough Sully was the 3rd option for most of the year, behind Jeff Green and Avery Bradley.  He also on a team that takes a 'strength in numbers' approach to offense, where the entire basis of the offense is to make the most of the depth on the team, and not give too much offensive focus to any one player. 

So if you put Love in that same offensive scheme, it's not likely the result would be very different.  This offensive scheme (and roster makeup) is very different to the one Love was a part of in Minnesota, where he was a very clear #1 option and ALL offense went through him. 

Anyhow despite Love's huge role in that offense and his fancy on paper box score numbers, how many playoff appearances did he make while there?

See Sully and Olynyk both have one key advantage over Kevin Love.  They both managed to make the playoffs within their third NBA season, despite not playing with a single star teammate.

Kevin Love played 5 seasons without a superstar teammate, but he had Kevin Martin and Nikola Pekovic, who are probably closer to 'star' players than anybody on this Celtics Roster.  Yet he didn't make the playoffs once.  Now the first season he makes the playoffs it's with the support of two superstar teammates - or more likely those teammates carried the team, and Love was their support.  Any delusions that Love had much to do with carrying that team can be written off based on the fact that the said team is now in the NBA finals, after winning the last two playoff series WITHOUT Love.

Simple: there's been a marked difference in quality between the Western and Eastern Conferences during the last five years.

Put Love's Wolves in the East, they'd have made it. No question.

[Monkhouse]

Because Boston has an apparent obsession with slow, undersized, jump-shot-jacking power forwards who are scared of defense?

Funny, it seems to me some fans have an obsession with young, unproven players over players who have established themselves in this league.

Are you firing shots at Jared Sullinger? You sly dog, you! 

[Celts Fan 508]

Let's get the "rich man, poor man" stuff out of the way and point out one glaring fact.

Love is a far better player than Sully.

13.3 points
7.6 rebounds
2.3 assists
0.8 steals
0.7 blocks
27 minutes
44% FG
28% 3PT
74% FT
PER: 17.9
$1.4 million

vs

16.4 points
9.7 rebounds
2.2 assists
0.7 steals
0.5 blocks
34 minutes
43% FG
36% 3PT
80% FT
PER: 18.8
$15.6 million

So for an 11x ($14.2m) increase in salary you are getting...

+3.1 points
+2.1 rebounds
-0.1 assists
-0.1 steals
-0.2 blocks
-0.1% FG
+0.8% 3PT
+0.6% FT
+6.8 minutes
+09 PER

Do you really describe that as a "FAR better" player?  Do you really consider that good value for money?

Basically the only significant improvements there are 3PT% and FT% - outside of that you are essentially look at the same player.

Wait, are you arguing that Sullinger is better than Love, or is just a better value than Love?

Love had an offensive win share of 5.8, last year it was a 10.6; Sully had a career matching high of 1.9 this season.

Love had a defensive win share of 2.9 this season, down from 3.7 last year, Sully had a career high of 2.1 this season.

So Love is worth 8.7 Wins Share, down 10.6 last year.  Sully is worth a 4.0 Win share.  So assuming that Love went back to his Minnesota role it is reasonable to expect an additional 5/6 wins in the regular season with Love replacing Sully, IMO making him worth the money.

[GC003332]

The odds of Olynyk or Sullinger making multiple all star teams or making all NBA teams or representing the USA in the Olympics are almost slim and none, regardless of whether Love signs with Boston or not.
Olynyk would be lucky to command more than 4-5 mi on the open market if he was lucky.

[Ilikesports17]

Because Boston has an apparent obsession with slow, undersized, jump-shot-jacking power forwards who are scared of defense?

Funny, it seems to me some fans have an obsession with young, unproven players over players who have established themselves in this league.

You are equally obsessed in the opposite direction.

In the past month you have suggested doing "whatever it takes" to get Joakim Noah, written that Kenneth Faried could be moved straight up for the #4 pick, and suggested that signing Brook Lopez and Thad Young would be a great move for the franchise.

Let me guess you thought that Cleveland absolutely stole Love from the TWolves.

If you make your team by signing non-elite 30+ year old players thats how you get stuck on the dreaded treadmill of mediocrity.

[JohnBoy65]

Crimson, you're just manipulating numbers to come out the way you want them. Those years in Minny meant nothing for K Love? HE can't do that again? He all of a sudden forgot how to play basketball? Come on man, you're better than that.

[Monkhouse]

Let's get the "rich man, poor man" stuff out of the way and point out one glaring fact.

Love is a far better player than Sully.

13.3 points
7.6 rebounds
2.3 assists
0.8 steals
0.7 blocks
27 minutes
44% FG
28% 3PT
74% FT
PER: 17.9
$1.4 million

vs

16.4 points
9.7 rebounds
2.2 assists
0.7 steals
0.5 blocks
34 minutes
43% FG
36% 3PT
80% FT
PER: 18.8
$15.6 million

So for an 11x ($14.2m) increase in salary you are getting...

+3.1 points
+2.1 rebounds
-0.1 assists
-0.1 steals
-0.2 blocks
-0.1% FG
+0.8% 3PT
+0.6% FT
+6.8 minutes
+09 PER

Do you really describe that as a "FAR better" player?  Do you really consider that good value for money?

Basically the only significant improvements there are 3PT% and FT% - outside of that you are essentially look at the same player.

Wait, are you arguing that Sullinger is better than Love, or is just a better value than Love?

Love had an offensive win share of 5.8, last year it was a 10.6; Sully had a career matching high of 1.9 this season.

Love had a defensive win share of 2.9 this season, down from 3.7 last year, Sully had a career high of 2.1 this season.

So Love is worth 8.7 Wins Share, down 10.6 last year.  Sully is worth a 4.0 Win share.  So assuming that Love went back to his Minnesota role it is reasonable to expect an addition 5/6 per regular season with Love replacing Sully, IMO making him worth the money.

Thank you.

I think Crimson was referencing the latter.

I just don't get why people are so high on Sully.

He has had numerous chances to get back into shape, and now that his make or break season is coming up right before his extension, what has Sully shown for it? Absolutely nothing.

He wasn't a huge part of making the playoffs, was overweight, got eventually criticized by Ainge, who rarely ever throws his players under the bus, and questions arose on a consistent basis for whether or not his health and conditioning was up to par.

[Celtics4ever]

Sully is 23 years old and is averaging per-36 numbers of 17.7 points, 10.1 rebounds, 3.1 assists, 1 steal and 1 block while shooting 44%  / 28% / 74% and is earning $1.4 million.

Per 36 numbers make people look great.   Trouble is this guy was gasping and could not stay in shape with the minutes he had.    KO might foul out in 36 minutes.

Twist it anyway you like in no place but Boston does anyone think KO and Sully are even remotely as good as Love.   This is patently absurd.  This blog is really comedic sometimes except I do not think people mean it that way.

[86MaxwellSmart]

The odds of Olynyk or Sullinger making multiple all star teams or making all NBA teams or representing the USA in the Olympics are almost slim and none, regardless of whether Love signs with Boston or not.
Olynyk would be lucky to command more than 4-5 mi on the open market if he was lucky.

I think Olynyk will make the Canadian team.