Author Topic: The value of Kelly Olynyk in the modern NBA game  (Read 17182 times)

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Re: The value of Kelly Olynyk in the modern NBA game
« Reply #30 on: May 28, 2015, 02:39:17 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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Who on the Celts isn't a playmaker if KO is?

Not playmakers:

Avery Bradley
Brandon Bass
Tyler Zeller
Jae Crowder
Jonas Jerebko
Gigi Datome


Sullinger has shown playmaking ability, but Olynyk is a better ball-handler and passer than he is.

Smart's a playmaker, but he has room to grow in that area.

IT, Turner, and Pressey are probably the best playmakers on the team.

Gerald Wallace is a good passer and has good court vision, but of course he rarely plays anymore and doesn't have the offensive ability to pressure the defense at all.


Brad Stevens's system requires having multiple playmakers on the floor at all times, which is why Evan Turner got so much playing time despite being a mediocre defender and a very inefficient scorer.
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
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Re: The value of Kelly Olynyk in the modern NBA game
« Reply #31 on: May 28, 2015, 02:42:55 PM »

Offline Eja117

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A rebound is a play. Getting a steal or a block is a play. Forcing your man to pass or take a bad shot is a play. Hitting an open shot is a play.

Most of these guys are better play makers than KO most of the time.

Re: The value of Kelly Olynyk in the modern NBA game
« Reply #32 on: May 28, 2015, 02:45:15 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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A rebound is a play. Getting a steal or a block is a play. Forcing your man to pass or take a bad shot is a play. Hitting an open shot is a play.

Most of these guys are better play makers than KO most of the time.

Well, if you're going to define doing anything productive on the floor as a "play," then yes, there will be a number of players better than Olynyk by that measure, though KO is a fairly productive big man.  He just doesn't dominate in any one category, aside from being one of the few 7 footers in the league who regularly takes and makes threes.

Just know that this is not what other people are talking about when they talk about "playmakers."
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain

Re: The value of Kelly Olynyk in the modern NBA game
« Reply #33 on: May 28, 2015, 03:19:58 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Trouble is with KO, is one game he will play well and the other games he played like a turtle with his head in the sand.  His value is literally only there half of the time.

Re: The value of Kelly Olynyk in the modern NBA game
« Reply #34 on: May 28, 2015, 03:21:56 PM »

Offline Eja117

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A rebound is a play. Getting a steal or a block is a play. Forcing your man to pass or take a bad shot is a play. Hitting an open shot is a play.

Most of these guys are better play makers than KO most of the time.

Well, if you're going to define doing anything productive on the floor as a "play," then yes, there will be a number of players better than Olynyk by that measure, though KO is a fairly productive big man.  He just doesn't dominate in any one category, aside from being one of the few 7 footers in the league who regularly takes and makes threes.

Just know that this is not what other people are talking about when they talk about "playmakers."
People can think of KO as a playmaker as much as they want to. I don't consider him much of a playmaker or facilitator or a lead forward or point forward or any other possible euphemism for "Not really a reliable scorer, defender, or rebounder. Not at all intimidating or much of a leader on the court. Just kinda a liability".

I'm not sure what you mean by he's a fairly productive big man. His shooting numbers aren't that great. Neither are any of his other numbers.

Even if he is a "playmaker" ....at the expense of what? If you never have the ball because you don't rebound it or take it from the other team then how many plays can you make?

Re: The value of Kelly Olynyk in the modern NBA game
« Reply #35 on: May 28, 2015, 03:49:35 PM »

Offline DarkAzcura

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A rebound is a play. Getting a steal or a block is a play. Forcing your man to pass or take a bad shot is a play. Hitting an open shot is a play.

Most of these guys are better play makers than KO most of the time.

Well, if you're going to define doing anything productive on the floor as a "play," then yes, there will be a number of players better than Olynyk by that measure, though KO is a fairly productive big man.  He just doesn't dominate in any one category, aside from being one of the few 7 footers in the league who regularly takes and makes threes.

Just know that this is not what other people are talking about when they talk about "playmakers."
People can think of KO as a playmaker as much as they want to. I don't consider him much of a playmaker or facilitator or a lead forward or point forward or any other possible euphemism for "Not really a reliable scorer, defender, or rebounder. Not at all intimidating or much of a leader on the court. Just kinda a liability".

I'm not sure what you mean by he's a fairly productive big man. His shooting numbers aren't that great. Neither are any of his other numbers.

Even if he is a "playmaker" ....at the expense of what? If you never have the ball because you don't rebound it or take it from the other team then how many plays can you make?

Sounds like you are changing the definition in your head because you likely have some weird agenda/hatred against Olynyk like a few people on this forum have. Everyone knows what people mean when they are talking about playmakers in basketball. Playmakers are those who can score, dribble, and pass. You are trying way too hard.

Anyway, before his injury he had a 58-60% TS, which is really good. He ended the season at 56%, which is still pretty good so you are pretty wrong to say he doesn't shoot that well. He's fairly efficient with pretty good potential to be very efficient. He's also the best ball mover in the Celtics' front court by a pretty healthy margin, though, Sully is obviously right there with him. There is a reason KO ranks so highly on the Celtics in terms of real +/-. More often than not, the Celtics play their best basketball with KO on the floor. That's just the truth of it. Sorry if he doesn't fit your ideal model or you can't see the good things he does. Plenty of others do, and yes, he does fit the description posted in the OP to a T.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2015, 03:59:14 PM by DarkAzcura »

Re: The value of Kelly Olynyk in the modern NBA game
« Reply #36 on: May 28, 2015, 04:06:02 PM »

Offline oldutican

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KO is the great white hope of Celticsblog.

Re: The value of Kelly Olynyk in the modern NBA game
« Reply #37 on: May 28, 2015, 04:50:16 PM »

Offline CapnDunks

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Lots of overreactions IMO. Kelly still has a substantial upside. I don't know why people think he's such a poor rebounder. That being said, he has very little value. He could easily have value if he makes a leap next year. Too in his own head, when he's locked in he looks pretty [dang] good.

Re: The value of Kelly Olynyk in the modern NBA game
« Reply #38 on: May 28, 2015, 05:07:03 PM »

Offline aingeforthree

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Lots of overreactions IMO. Kelly still has a substantial upside. I don't know why people think he's such a poor rebounder. That being said, he has very little value. He could easily have value if he makes a leap next year. Too in his own head, when he's locked in he looks pretty [dang] good.

I'm baffled as to why Olynyk is graded out like a finished product by most fans.  The guy is just starting his development.  He can still get better.

I personally would keep him, just based on his skill set. I'd look to move Sullinger before Kelly, especially if Love comes here.  I would love the Love/Olynyk combo at the 4.

Re: The value of Kelly Olynyk in the modern NBA game
« Reply #39 on: May 28, 2015, 05:08:51 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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Lots of overreactions IMO. Kelly still has a substantial upside. I don't know why people think he's such a poor rebounder. That being said, he has very little value. He could easily have value if he makes a leap next year. Too in his own head, when he's locked in he looks pretty [dang] good.

I'm baffled as to why Olynyk is graded out like a finished product by most fans.  The guy is just starting his development.  He can still get better.

I personally would keep him, just based on his skill set. I'd look to move Sullinger before Kelly, especially if Love comes here.  I would love the Love/Olynyk combo at the 4.

Typically players that spend four years in college are treated as more finished than, say, a player entering the league fresh out of high school or after having a cup of coffee in the NCAA.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: The value of Kelly Olynyk in the modern NBA game
« Reply #40 on: May 28, 2015, 05:11:44 PM »

Offline Eja117

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A rebound is a play. Getting a steal or a block is a play. Forcing your man to pass or take a bad shot is a play. Hitting an open shot is a play.

Most of these guys are better play makers than KO most of the time.

Well, if you're going to define doing anything productive on the floor as a "play," then yes, there will be a number of players better than Olynyk by that measure, though KO is a fairly productive big man.  He just doesn't dominate in any one category, aside from being one of the few 7 footers in the league who regularly takes and makes threes.

Just know that this is not what other people are talking about when they talk about "playmakers."
People can think of KO as a playmaker as much as they want to. I don't consider him much of a playmaker or facilitator or a lead forward or point forward or any other possible euphemism for "Not really a reliable scorer, defender, or rebounder. Not at all intimidating or much of a leader on the court. Just kinda a liability".

I'm not sure what you mean by he's a fairly productive big man. His shooting numbers aren't that great. Neither are any of his other numbers.

Even if he is a "playmaker" ....at the expense of what? If you never have the ball because you don't rebound it or take it from the other team then how many plays can you make?

Sounds like you are changing the definition in your head because you likely have some weird agenda/hatred against Olynyk like a few people on this forum have. Everyone knows what people mean when they are talking about playmakers in basketball. Playmakers are those who can score, dribble, and pass. You are trying way too hard.

Anyway, before his injury he had a 58-60% TS, which is really good. He ended the season at 56%, which is still pretty good so you are pretty wrong to say he doesn't shoot that well. He's fairly efficient with pretty good potential to be very efficient. He's also the best ball mover in the Celtics' front court by a pretty healthy margin, though, Sully is obviously right there with him. There is a reason KO ranks so highly on the Celtics in terms of real +/-. More often than not, the Celtics play their best basketball with KO on the floor. That's just the truth of it. Sorry if he doesn't fit your ideal model or you can't see the good things he does. Plenty of others do, and yes, he does fit the description posted in the OP to a T.
Have you ever actually watched him play or taken a look at his box score lines?

Also he needs a haircut. Every time I look at him I wonder why he isn't out smoking a dooby and trying to solve mysteries with Scooby.

Re: The value of Kelly Olynyk in the modern NBA game
« Reply #41 on: May 28, 2015, 05:12:50 PM »

Offline Eja117

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Lots of overreactions IMO. Kelly still has a substantial upside. I don't know why people think he's such a poor rebounder. That being said, he has very little value. He could easily have value if he makes a leap next year. Too in his own head, when he's locked in he looks pretty [dang] good.

I'm baffled as to why Olynyk is graded out like a finished product by most fans.  The guy is just starting his development.  He can still get better.

I personally would keep him, just based on his skill set. I'd look to move Sullinger before Kelly, especially if Love comes here.  I would love the Love/Olynyk combo at the 4.
Because he largely regressed this year, while most other people on the team either got better or got better over the course of the year.

Re: The value of Kelly Olynyk in the modern NBA game
« Reply #42 on: May 28, 2015, 05:14:17 PM »

Offline Eja117

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A rebound is a play. Getting a steal or a block is a play. Forcing your man to pass or take a bad shot is a play. Hitting an open shot is a play.

Most of these guys are better play makers than KO most of the time.

Well, if you're going to define doing anything productive on the floor as a "play," then yes, there will be a number of players better than Olynyk by that measure, though KO is a fairly productive big man.  He just doesn't dominate in any one category, aside from being one of the few 7 footers in the league who regularly takes and makes threes.

Just know that this is not what other people are talking about when they talk about "playmakers."
People can think of KO as a playmaker as much as they want to. I don't consider him much of a playmaker or facilitator or a lead forward or point forward or any other possible euphemism for "Not really a reliable scorer, defender, or rebounder. Not at all intimidating or much of a leader on the court. Just kinda a liability".

I'm not sure what you mean by he's a fairly productive big man. His shooting numbers aren't that great. Neither are any of his other numbers.

Even if he is a "playmaker" ....at the expense of what? If you never have the ball because you don't rebound it or take it from the other team then how many plays can you make?

Sounds like you are changing the definition in your head because you likely have some weird agenda/hatred against Olynyk like a few people on this forum have. Everyone knows what people mean when they are talking about playmakers in basketball. Playmakers are those who can score, dribble, and pass. You are trying way too hard.

Anyway, before his injury he had a 58-60% TS, which is really good. He ended the season at 56%, which is still pretty good so you are pretty wrong to say he doesn't shoot that well. He's fairly efficient with pretty good potential to be very efficient. He's also the best ball mover in the Celtics' front court by a pretty healthy margin, though, Sully is obviously right there with him. There is a reason KO ranks so highly on the Celtics in terms of real +/-. More often than not, the Celtics play their best basketball with KO on the floor. That's just the truth of it. Sorry if he doesn't fit your ideal model or you can't see the good things he does. Plenty of others do, and yes, he does fit the description posted in the OP to a T.
He's a big man that shoots less that 50%, barely better than average from deep, and had a terrible ft%

Re: The value of Kelly Olynyk in the modern NBA game
« Reply #43 on: May 28, 2015, 05:14:51 PM »

Offline knuckleballer

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Lots of overreactions IMO. Kelly still has a substantial upside. I don't know why people think he's such a poor rebounder. That being said, he has very little value. He could easily have value if he makes a leap next year. Too in his own head, when he's locked in he looks pretty [dang] good.

I'm baffled as to why Olynyk is graded out like a finished product by most fans.  The guy is just starting his development.  He can still get better.

I personally would keep him, just based on his skill set. I'd look to move Sullinger before Kelly, especially if Love comes here.  I would love the Love/Olynyk combo at the 4.

I agree he was really behind developmentally.  He took his junior year off to remake his game and his body.  He was a stick figure who thought he was a shooting guard before that.  He's still improving his game.  I don't think he will ever be an above average starter, but I think he could be a very good big off the bench who who can take advantage of matchups.  He just needs to make some improvements and play consistently with confidence.

Re: The value of Kelly Olynyk in the modern NBA game
« Reply #44 on: May 28, 2015, 05:33:20 PM »

Offline Forza Juventus

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I like Olynyk and I hope he continues to improve but I'm starting to think the only players that can start on a contender are Bradley and Isaiah. I think Smart has the potential to as well. Hopefully I'm wrong though and either Sully or Olynyk improves enough or Young improves a lot. We'll see though.
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