Author Topic: The value of Kelly Olynyk in the modern NBA game  (Read 17187 times)

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Re: The value of Kelly Olynyk in the modern NBA game
« Reply #15 on: May 28, 2015, 01:33:41 AM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

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I see some play-making abilities, I just don't see him ever getting over his physical and mental deficiencies to be able to be that guy. Would never think twice about selling him, even if he turned out to be Arvydas Sabonis with tiny arms/feet.
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Re: The value of Kelly Olynyk in the modern NBA game
« Reply #16 on: May 28, 2015, 07:41:16 AM »

Offline clover

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I definitely thought of Olynyk when he started talking about how power forwards with range need to be able to pump fake, put the ball on the floor, and make plays for teammates.

Kelly has shown an ability to do that, what has been lacking so far is decisiveness and clarity of purpose when he's out there.  Some nights he has it, and he looks great.  Other nights he's tentative and seems to feel like he can't take an open shot unless it's the 3rd or 4th good look the team has had in that possession.  When he plays that way, he's not much good.

I don't expect KO to ever be a great defensive player, or to ever dominate the boards.  The plus minus numbers, though -- for whatever they are worth (I'm not sure) -- suggest he's not as much of a drag on the defensive end as the typical hot take on here would indicate.

KO was pretty good on the boards in his last year of college and first year in the NBA. And I think he's made some pretty good defensive improvements. It's not an accident that real +/- is somehow always his friend.

Maybe he'll get his groove back playing for Canada this summer, but I really think he just needs some better coaching and repetition on a few things--position down low and boxing out and getting his shot off faster would be the big ones for me. I think if he can shoot faster he'll shoot a lot more, which is playing to his strength--and that will restore his confidence for playing tougher again in the other aspects of the game.

Re: The value of Kelly Olynyk in the modern NBA game
« Reply #17 on: May 28, 2015, 08:44:20 AM »

Offline rollie mass

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kellys ankle problem severly hampered his end of season,also i think the merry go round of players hampered everybody and kelly was only in sophomore season-

Re: The value of Kelly Olynyk in the modern NBA game
« Reply #18 on: May 28, 2015, 09:44:33 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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KO was pretty good on the boards in his last year of college and first year in the NBA

NBA and college is night and day.  The best players most often play in high school, the best of those go to college often, the best of those make it to the NBA.  Each level guys lose skills as the elite skills and athletic ability and size become more common and they seem less special.

Re: The value of Kelly Olynyk in the modern NBA game
« Reply #19 on: May 28, 2015, 09:55:34 AM »

Offline D.o.s.

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KO was pretty good on the boards in his last year of college and first year in the NBA

NBA and college is night and day.  The best players most often play in high school, the best of those go to college often, the best of those make it to the NBA.  Each level guys lose skills as the elite skills and athletic ability and size become more common and they seem less special.

Definitely a good point.

As to Olynyk, I think he's well suited to being a playmaking 4 -- he's like a taller (and worse) version of Kyle Korver, in that regard, particularly/only if he can start hitting from outside with any consistency.
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Re: The value of Kelly Olynyk in the modern NBA game
« Reply #20 on: May 28, 2015, 10:07:16 AM »

Offline Celtics18

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KO was pretty good on the boards in his last year of college and first year in the NBA

NBA and college is night and day.  The best players most often play in high school, the best of those go to college often, the best of those make it to the NBA.  Each level guys lose skills as the elite skills and athletic ability and size become more common and they seem less special.

Definitely a good point.

As to Olynyk, I think he's well suited to being a playmaking 4 -- he's like a taller (and worse) version of Kyle Korver, in that regard, particularly/only if he can start hitting from outside with any consistency.

He's nothing like Kyle Korver.  Korver's a guy who runs off screens, looking to get a sliver of daylight to hoist up threes.  He's one of the best pure shooters the game has ever seen, but he doesn't put the ball on the floor and drive to the hoop with any frequency.

Korver's a finisher, not a creator. 

Kelly's not the shooter that Korver is.  Nobody is, but he's a much more multi-dimensional offensive player. 
DKC Seventy-Sixers:

PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
SF:  Giannis/J. Lamb/M. Kuzminskas
PF:  E. Ilyasova/J. Jerebko/R. Christmas
C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson

Re: The value of Kelly Olynyk in the modern NBA game
« Reply #21 on: May 28, 2015, 10:40:56 AM »

Offline footey

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I definitely thought of Olynyk when he started talking about how power forwards with range need to be able to pump fake, put the ball on the floor, and make plays for teammates.

Kelly has shown an ability to do that, what has been lacking so far is decisiveness and clarity of purpose when he's out there.  Some nights he has it, and he looks great. Other nights he's tentative and seems to feel like he can't take an open shot unless it's the 3rd or 4th good look the team has had in that possession.  When he plays that way, he's not much good.

I don't expect KO to ever be a great defensive player, or to ever dominate the boards.  The plus minus numbers, though -- for whatever they are worth (I'm not sure) -- suggest he's not as much of a drag on the defensive end as the typical hot take on here would indicate.

I think that part of the reason for Kelly's frequent lack of "clarity of purpose" lies exactly in the fact that his role isn't as clear as many want to believe.

We want to shout along with Tommy "just shoot the ball, Kelly!!!" every time he touches the ball.  I don't think, and have never thought, that this is what his sole purpose is, though.  His job is to be a playmaker.  Sometimes that means shooting, sometimes that means driving, sometimes that means looking for a cutter, sometimes it means getting it back to the guard up top who has a better opportunity to make a play.

Being a playmaker in the NBA is not an easy task to master.  It takes more than just "shoot the ball," or
"go to the hole."  It takes figuring out what is the best option on a given play and executing that play quickly and decisively and being able to improvise when things don't go as planned.  That's a lot for a young player to master while learning how to play against the biggest, strongest, fastest, best athletes in the world. 

You don't see a lot of "playmakers" attain mastery within their first couple of years in the NBA.  It takes some time and practice to become comfortable with those kinds of decision making skills at that level.

I think Kelly will continue to get better at it.  As many like to point out, "he probably is what he is."  I agree with that, but think he has plenty of room to improve in the role of who he is.   

Kelly should model his game off Larry Bird. He is a (very poor) man's version of Bird.  He needs to channel Bird's confidence, arrogance, and "I'm not going to worry about whether my team-mates think I shoot too much" attitude.  Good things happen when the ball is in his hands and he creates.

Re: The value of Kelly Olynyk in the modern NBA game
« Reply #22 on: May 28, 2015, 10:45:01 AM »

Offline Rosco917

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As Kelly gets more and more experience in the NBA his defense will gradually improve enough to not be a liability. He'll never be a great defender, or even a real good defender, mostly because of physical limitations, but he'll be decent because of his sheer size and desire. You can't say Kelly doesn't try and work. He's always respectful and tuned into Stevens and the game.

The question for me about Kelly is confidence, will he gain enough actual swagger to be an offensive weapon.     

Re: The value of Kelly Olynyk in the modern NBA game
« Reply #23 on: May 28, 2015, 11:14:12 AM »

Offline D.o.s.

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KO was pretty good on the boards in his last year of college and first year in the NBA

NBA and college is night and day.  The best players most often play in high school, the best of those go to college often, the best of those make it to the NBA.  Each level guys lose skills as the elite skills and athletic ability and size become more common and they seem less special.

Definitely a good point.

As to Olynyk, I think he's well suited to being a playmaking 4 -- he's like a taller (and worse) version of Kyle Korver, in that regard, particularly/only if he can start hitting from outside with any consistency.

He's nothing like Kyle Korver.  Korver's a guy who runs off screens, looking to get a sliver of daylight to hoist up threes.  He's one of the best pure shooters the game has ever seen, but he doesn't put the ball on the floor and drive to the hoop with any frequency.

Korver's a finisher, not a creator. 

Kelly's not the shooter that Korver is.  Nobody is, but he's a much more multi-dimensional offensive player.

that's you underselling Korver. The whole reason he flourished this season (as opposed to the million years he's been in the league) is because Atlanta's coaching staff used him as much more than just a great three point shooter.

Lowe did a great piece on this about a year ago, it's worth reading:
http://grantland.com/features/kyle-korver-nba-atlanta-hawks/
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Re: The value of Kelly Olynyk in the modern NBA game
« Reply #24 on: May 28, 2015, 11:14:30 AM »

Offline clover

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KO was pretty good on the boards in his last year of college and first year in the NBA

NBA and college is night and day.  The best players most often play in high school, the best of those go to college often, the best of those make it to the NBA.  Each level guys lose skills as the elite skills and athletic ability and size become more common and they seem less special.

Last year as a rookie he pulled down 13.4 boards per 100 possessions--compared to sophomore Sully's 15.1. Not a big difference.

But he seems to have been focused and directed elsewhere through much of his second year--and to have regressed on the rebounding front.

I really don't think they've had the big man coaching they should have had since Clifford Ray left--and that's too bad.

Re: The value of Kelly Olynyk in the modern NBA game
« Reply #25 on: May 28, 2015, 11:48:05 AM »

Offline oldutican

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Value? So what draft pick range could just Kelly O fetch?

My guess would be that he could get somewhere between 10 to 15 in this year's draft.

LOL

Re: The value of Kelly Olynyk in the modern NBA game
« Reply #26 on: May 28, 2015, 02:13:33 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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Value? So what draft pick range could just Kelly O fetch?

My guess would be that he could get somewhere between 10 to 15 in this year's draft.

LOL

Elaborate, please. 
DKC Seventy-Sixers:

PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
SF:  Giannis/J. Lamb/M. Kuzminskas
PF:  E. Ilyasova/J. Jerebko/R. Christmas
C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson

Re: The value of Kelly Olynyk in the modern NBA game
« Reply #27 on: May 28, 2015, 02:16:31 PM »

Offline Eja117

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I cannot tell you the extent to which I do not associate the word "playmaking" with the name "Kelly Olynyk"

I'm not seeing progress out of him

Re: The value of Kelly Olynyk in the modern NBA game
« Reply #28 on: May 28, 2015, 02:25:37 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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Value? So what draft pick range could just Kelly O fetch?

My guess would be that he could get somewhere between 10 to 15 in this year's draft.

LOL

Elaborate, please.

I think "LOL" is an unfair response, but I agree that a team would not trade a pick in that range for Olynyk.

Kelly has shown he is a useful bench player in the league, and seems likely to continue to have value in that role moving forward.

Thing is, teams picking in the 10-15 range tend to try and get a player they think can eventually be a decent starter for them, even if the chance of that happening is well below 50%. 

I think most teams would prefer to take the chance of getting a player better than Olynyk rather than trade the pick for a guy who is "just" a useful bench big.


I cannot tell you the extent to which I do not associate the word "playmaking" with the name "Kelly Olynyk"


If you read "playmaking" and think "highlight play making," then yeah, he's not that.

Playmaking in this context typically means that he can get the ball, put it on the floor, pressure the defense in a way that creates an opening for somebody else, anticipate that opening, and then get the ball to the open man.

I think it is fair to say that Kelly has shown an ability to do that.  He's got a good pump fake, he can drive against most opposing big men (especially centers), and he is a good passer for his position.

He doesn't do it consistently enough when he's out there, but the skillset is there.
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Re: The value of Kelly Olynyk in the modern NBA game
« Reply #29 on: May 28, 2015, 02:35:13 PM »

Offline Eja117

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If KO is a potential playmaker then who isn't? Who on the Celts isn't a playmaker if KO is? He's just a guy that goes out there and plays no defense and doesn't get a lot of rebs and sometimes gets some open shots and sometimes looks a little like he's sorta trying to try hard.

He's got a little bit of NBA talent and has worked on his body and that's about the best you can say about him.