Author Topic: Woj: Boston a real legitimate possibility for Love  (Read 13861 times)

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Re: Woj: Boston a real legitimate possibility for Love
« Reply #75 on: May 28, 2015, 09:28:02 AM »

Offline Eddie20

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Like I said, that wasn't evident in how the info was originally presented.

Not sure why. He reiterated almost everything he's already said in writing, but in an interview setting.

How I described it was almost verbatim on how the conversation took place. I honstly feel that you were just trying to take a contrarian stance on the thread by taking it as pure conjecture on Woj's part.

Re: Woj: Boston a real legitimate possibility for Love
« Reply #76 on: May 28, 2015, 09:37:32 AM »

Offline manl_lui

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Woj on Love...

Love has options. I think he's going to look around. He's going to look closely at Boston. He's going to look closely at LA. I'm sure the Texas teams want to get involved. He really likes Kevin McHale. He took the trade to Cleveland without knowing his role, without discussing with Blatt on how he would be used. I'm told that how he'll be used are some of the questions he wants to ask. I think Boston would be interesting because of Stevens and Ainge as a recruiting duo to sell him on how he'll be used there. I think Boston is a real legitimate possibility.


....

Posted this on the Lowe/Windhorst thread, but this is more closely related to the C's and felt it would get drowned out there.

If the C's sign Love, do they trade Sully and/or KO?  I would think maybe one.

I think Sullinger is the one that would be gone. I like Olynyk's ability to stretch the floor and he also has one more year than Sullinger under his rookie contract.

I would like to think both might be gone if Love signs here. We still need that rim protector. If we can somehow package Oly and others for a center that'd be a great summer

Love/defensive center

Re: Woj: Boston a real legitimate possibility for Love
« Reply #77 on: May 28, 2015, 09:41:42 AM »

Offline oldtype

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Woj on Love...

Love has options. I think he's going to look around. He's going to look closely at Boston. He's going to look closely at LA. I'm sure the Texas teams want to get involved. He really likes Kevin McHale. He took the trade to Cleveland without knowing his role, without discussing with Blatt on how he would be used. I'm told that how he'll be used are some of the questions he wants to ask. I think Boston would be interesting because of Stevens and Ainge as a recruiting duo to sell him on how he'll be used there. I think Boston is a real legitimate possibility.


....

Posted this on the Lowe/Windhorst thread, but this is more closely related to the C's and felt it would get drowned out there.

If the C's sign Love, do they trade Sully and/or KO?  I would think maybe one.

I think Sullinger is the one that would be gone. I like Olynyk's ability to stretch the floor and he also has one more year than Sullinger under his rookie contract.

I would like to think both might be gone if Love signs here. We still need that rim protector. If we can somehow package Oly and others for a center that'd be a great summer

Love/defensive center

Plenty of defensive centers on the free agent market we could nab. I'd guess that Olynyk is probably better suited to a bench role than Sullinger is so I'd probably trade the latter.


Great words from a great man

Re: Woj: Boston a real legitimate possibility for Love
« Reply #78 on: May 28, 2015, 09:53:40 AM »

Offline D.o.s.

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Like I said, that wasn't evident in how the info was originally presented.

Not sure why. He reiterated almost everything he's already said in writing, but in an interview setting.

How I described it was almost verbatim on how the conversation took place. I honstly feel that you were just trying to take a contrarian stance on the thread by taking it as pure conjecture on Woj's part.

I just thought it was weird that no one had said anything, because there's a real difference (IMO) between Woj's thinking and Woj's reporting, and the second is typically much more sound than the latter.

I have no problem taking contrarian stances, but in this case that wasn't the point of the post. It was also like 4 AM and my reading comprehension was a little shaky as a result.  ;D
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Re: Woj: Boston a real legitimate possibility for Love
« Reply #79 on: May 28, 2015, 10:12:52 AM »

Offline GetLucky

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Celtics might actually have a chance at picking up the Crybaby.  I wonder if his one condition is that KO needs to be traded.   That won't end well

I rather give Sully and KO another shot.  Just not a fan of Love the baby

Really? lol Even on similarly bad teams, neither of them have even come close to Love's effectiveness and statistical dominance.

give them a chance.  It took love  a while to get a pro body. Be a consistent threat from the 3 pt line.

It's do or die (to be better than just role players) for Sully and KO next season

Kevin Love is 26. His rookie year was 2008-2009, about 6 years ago. By his third year in the league, at age 22, Love was averaging just over 20 points and 15 rebounds per game.

Jared Sullinger is currently 23, entering his fourth year in the NBA. Kelly Olynyk is 24, entering his third year in the NBA. As much as I love our guys, neither of them will ever scratch Kevin Love levels.

Triboy, I know you love to prospect and look at potential (as evidenced by you amazingly detailed scouting reports and knowledge of the draft). However, at a certain point, a team needs proven commodities, and when an opportunity comes in which the proven commodity is not much older than  your prospects, I think you have to jump.

What were Sully's averages last year in his 3rd yr compared to Love's 3rd year, how many minutes did each player get? Has Sully ever had the chance to be the man as Love had been? Sully in season 3 had just gotten about (MAYBE) half a season to be a top/go to player and he was starting to look nice before his injury. I'm not arguing whether Love's 3rd year was better but I am questioning how much better and I'm also asking that you look at situations and not just stats.

In 2010-2011, Kevin Love averaged 20.2 ppg and 15.2 rpg on a Minnesota Timberwolves team that averaged 101.1 points per contest. Love shot 47%/41.7%/85% on 11.2 two-pointers per game, 2.9 three-pointers per game, and 6.8 free throws per game. Love also averaged 2.5 assists per game. Love played 73 games at 35.8 minutes per game, with per-36 minute numbers of 20.4/15.3/2.5

In 2014-2015, Jared Sullinger averaged 13.3 ppg and 7.7 rpg on a Boston Celtics team that averaged 101.4 points per contest. Sullinger shot 43.9%/28.3%/74.4% on 9.0 two-pointers per game, 3.2 three-pointers per game, and 2.2 free throws per game. Sullinger also averaged 2.3 assists per game. Sullinger played 58 games at 27.0 minutes per game, with per-36 minute numbers of 17.7/10.1/3.1

From this, I see that Sullinger, compared to Love, contributed less to the offense point-wise with similar field goal attempts in fewer minutes. What is most concerning, though, is the percentages. Sullinger has always been a below-average everything (free throw rate, 2p%, and 3p%), showing no signs of being elite. His field goal percentages his first three years were: 49.3% (as a bench player), 42.7% (in his only year playing more than 2/3 of games), and 43.9%. Love, on the other hand, was always at least average (45.9%, 45%, and 47%), scraping elite as the first option on offense.  Sullinger also played less games and minutes due to being out of shape and having a bad back, which is not a good sign (although Love's recent injuries make this a wash, in my opinion). But Sullinger seems to have no sizable advantage on offense (neither crafty moves to get to the line nor shooting range or considerable size for his position), which seems to cap his possible production. I have no doubt he'd be better if he gets into shape, and he's showing positive signs, but I still don't think he'd be Love-like. Then, the argument becomes, "Is $10 million a year for 17/10 Sullinger better than >$20 million for 24/13 Love?"

Love is a guy whose efficiency is maintained as his usage rate gets higher, thus translating to great stats when on a bad team and above-average stats on a very good team. I don't think Sullinger has the physical tools or skills to have a big increase in production as his usage rate goes up.

Re: Woj: Boston a real legitimate possibility for Love
« Reply #80 on: May 28, 2015, 10:19:04 AM »

Offline Evantime34

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Celtics might actually have a chance at picking up the Crybaby.  I wonder if his one condition is that KO needs to be traded.   That won't end well

I rather give Sully and KO another shot.  Just not a fan of Love the baby

Really? lol Even on similarly bad teams, neither of them have even come close to Love's effectiveness and statistical dominance.

give them a chance.  It took love  a while to get a pro body. Be a consistent threat from the 3 pt line.

It's do or die (to be better than just role players) for Sully and KO next season

Kevin Love is 26. His rookie year was 2008-2009, about 6 years ago. By his third year in the league, at age 22, Love was averaging just over 20 points and 15 rebounds per game.

Jared Sullinger is currently 23, entering his fourth year in the NBA. Kelly Olynyk is 24, entering his third year in the NBA. As much as I love our guys, neither of them will ever scratch Kevin Love levels.

Triboy, I know you love to prospect and look at potential (as evidenced by you amazingly detailed scouting reports and knowledge of the draft). However, at a certain point, a team needs proven commodities, and when an opportunity comes in which the proven commodity is not much older than  your prospects, I think you have to jump.

What were Sully's averages last year in his 3rd yr compared to Love's 3rd year, how many minutes did each player get? Has Sully ever had the chance to be the man as Love had been? Sully in season 3 had just gotten about (MAYBE) half a season to be a top/go to player and he was starting to look nice before his injury. I'm not arguing whether Love's 3rd year was better but I am questioning how much better and I'm also asking that you look at situations and not just stats.

In 2010-2011, Kevin Love averaged 20.2 ppg and 15.2 rpg on a Minnesota Timberwolves team that averaged 101.1 points per contest. Love shot 47%/41.7%/85% on 11.2 two-pointers per game, 2.9 three-pointers per game, and 6.8 free throws per game. Love also averaged 2.5 assists per game. Love played 73 games at 35.8 minutes per game, with per-36 minute numbers of 20.4/15.3/2.5

In 2014-2015, Jared Sullinger averaged 13.3 ppg and 7.7 rpg on a Boston Celtics team that averaged 101.4 points per contest. Sullinger shot 43.9%/28.3%/74.4% on 9.0 two-pointers per game, 3.2 three-pointers per game, and 2.2 free throws per game. Sullinger also averaged 2.3 assists per game. Sullinger played 58 games at 27.0 minutes per game, with per-36 minute numbers of 17.7/10.1/3.1

From this, I see that Sullinger, compared to Love, contributed less to the offense point-wise with similar field goal attempts in fewer minutes. What is most concerning, though, is the percentages. Sullinger has always been a below-average everything (free throw rate, 2p%, and 3p%), showing no signs of being elite. His field goal percentages his first three years were: 49.3% (as a bench player), 42.7% (in his only year playing more than 2/3 of games), and 43.9%. Love, on the other hand, was always at least average (45.9%, 45%, and 47%), scraping elite as the first option on offense.  Sullinger also played less games and minutes due to being out of shape and having a bad back, which is not a good sign (although Love's recent injuries make this a wash, in my opinion). But Sullinger seems to have no sizable advantage on offense (neither crafty moves to get to the line nor shooting range or considerable size for his position), which seems to cap his possible production. I have no doubt he'd be better if he gets into shape, and he's showing positive signs, but I still don't think he'd be Love-like. Then, the argument becomes, "Is $10 million a year for 17/10 Sullinger better than >$20 million for 24/13 Love?"

Love is a guy whose efficiency is maintained as his usage rate gets higher, thus translating to great stats when on a bad team and above-average stats on a very good team. I don't think Sullinger has the physical tools or skills to have a big increase in production as his usage rate goes up.
Great post! tp.

In their second years their numbers were much more similar. Besides being a much better shooter, the difference between the two was after his second year Love used the offseason to get in the best shape of his life, Sullinger didn't.
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Re: Woj: Boston a real legitimate possibility for Love
« Reply #81 on: May 28, 2015, 10:47:10 AM »

Offline footey

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Lol that'd suck if Love bolts Cleveland. They'd then traded Andrew Wiggins and Michael Bennett for nothing LOL.

That was a bad trade, I felt that way from day one.

Re: Woj: Boston a real legitimate possibility for Love
« Reply #82 on: May 28, 2015, 10:49:56 AM »

Offline D.o.s.

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Lol that'd suck if Love bolts Cleveland. They'd then traded Andrew Wiggins and Michael Bennett for nothing LOL.

That was a bad trade, I felt that way from day one.

But at least it means we don't have to feel bad about watching Wiggins.
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Re: Woj: Boston a real legitimate possibility for Love
« Reply #83 on: May 28, 2015, 10:50:05 AM »

Offline Brendan

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If they win a championship, it will be hard to say the trade was bad. Anything less the second guessers will have the better argument. Banners fly forever and actual banner with Love on the team (despite him leaving at end of year 1, despite him getting injured in playoffs, etc) would beat a hypothetical one with Wiggins.

But if he bolts after one year, more argument for the Simmons POV that CLE should have waiting with Wiggins and made the deal if needed only.

If Ainge did land Love in FA market in 2016, he'll come off looking great - getting Zeller and pieces to facilitate the trade, then getting the player anyways.

-BW

Re: Woj: Boston a real legitimate possibility for Love
« Reply #84 on: May 28, 2015, 11:24:36 AM »

Offline gpap

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Celtics might actually have a chance at picking up the Crybaby.  I wonder if his one condition is that KO needs to be traded.   That won't end well

I rather give Sully and KO another shot.  Just not a fan of Love the baby

In my eyes Al Jefferson is untouchable.   What has KG ever won?  Way too early to give up on Big Al for a guy past his prime..

LOVE IT!!

Looking back 8 years later, I'd say that worked out well for the Celtics.