Author Topic: Jared Dudley: "I would be surprised if Kevin Love goes to the Lakers"  (Read 19411 times)

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Offline Eddie20

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If the Lakers have Kobe and Love as the core for next year, they only need to add one really good, semi-top FA and they will be right in the hunt, every bit as much as Cleveland.  Love would have to decide whether he wants to chase a ring or go to a perennially top franchise and ride out a likely dip after Kobe retires.

Moving forward, the Lakers would have Love and whoever is the other FA they sign (Rondo?, Butler?) plus a pretty good cadre of young players (Randle, Towns, Clarkson) and once Kobe is gone, they can sign another FA.  I don't think the dip is going to last very long for the Lakers.

My conclusion is that I disagree with Jared Dudley.  I would not be the least bit surprised if Love goes to the Lakers.  I would be far more surprised if he came to the Celtics.
Here's the thing with the Lakers...  They have like 30 mil in cap space.   They could free up another 5 mil if they dump Nick Young.  They could theoretically add both Kevin Love and Rondo, if they still actually want Rondo.

That gives them Rondo, Jordan Clarkson (who just finished all rookie 1st team over Marcus Smart who just finished 6th in the rookie of the year voting behind 4th place marcus smart and 5th place Joseph Nurkic with 3 total points from all voters), Julius Randle, Kevin Love and Okafor.   I mean... it wouldn't be too hard for them to trade Randle for a quality forward if they want.  I said in another thread they could probably move Randle + Clarkson for Derozan fairly easily if they wanted a scoring forward.  Yeah, the defense on that team would be questionable, but whatever...

Here's my point.  Say they cap out the salary this year.    Kobe falls off the books at the end of the season... the cap jumps 20 mil.   That means they'll have about 40 mil in cap space to add talent around Rondo, Clarkson, Randle, Love and Okafor...   Ooof.  They can replace Kobe with two max contract players.  Then Kobe prob comes back mid-season for the vet min anyways, because he'll be bored and want attention.

The year after... cap jumps another 20 mil... you got yourself Rondo, Clarkson, Randle, Love, Okafor, Max Contract 1, Max Contract 2... and now you can add Max Contract 3. 

Getting talent this summer is crucial.   The cap is going to jump next season and Boston will be competing with every team in the league in the free agent market.  Usually talent attracts other talent.

Fixed it for ya
Funny.

Neither of them received a single vote for Rookie of the year... so it's a pretty irrelevant bit of info, aint it?   Whereas 74 people voted Clarkson All-Rookie 1st team and 28 voted Smart... so no need to fix it... Clarkson was all rookie 1st team.  Smart was all Rookie 2nd team.

Clarkson has trade value.  I imagine Clarkson + Randle has considerable trade value.  Almost like trading two Marcus Smarts.  Lol jk

I think you're still in the undecided phase of what team you're going to end up rooting for. It's a close call between Philly and LAL, huh? However, the monkey wrench is Minny. This could end up being a 3 team race for your loyalty.
I'm a Celtic fan who doesn't ignore facts.  Seems from the all rookie voting, one can come to the conclusion that Jordan Clarkson, at least in the eyes of "a panel of sportswriters and broadcasters throughout the United States and Canada" had a better rookie season than Marcus Smart.   Take that to mean what you will... and how it relates to the widespread opinion of Jordan Clarkson's trade value... which was what I was addressing.   I used Smart for context since I understand that most diehard Celtic fans have trouble seeing through the green haze and determining value of players who they don't watch daily.   NBA Gm's may disagree... but seems when a "panel of sportswriters and broadcasters throughout the United States and Canada" were polled, 74 voted Clarkson All-Rookie 1st team... 28 voted Smart all-rookie 1st team.   So yeah... nice piece to the Lakers puzzle right there.

Smart was playing off the ball for a team that was playing in games that actually mattered. Clarkson was putting up garbage numbers in meaningless games. Had their roles been reversed the numbers would've been far different and you would've been going on and on, on how we should've drafted Smart instead of (insert player here).

If you actually think east coast sportswriters were staying up late to watch the wasteland that was the LAL, and not just going off of boxscores, then gullible would be a fair description.

Offline LarBrd33

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If the Lakers have Kobe and Love as the core for next year, they only need to add one really good, semi-top FA and they will be right in the hunt, every bit as much as Cleveland.  Love would have to decide whether he wants to chase a ring or go to a perennially top franchise and ride out a likely dip after Kobe retires.

Moving forward, the Lakers would have Love and whoever is the other FA they sign (Rondo?, Butler?) plus a pretty good cadre of young players (Randle, Towns, Clarkson) and once Kobe is gone, they can sign another FA.  I don't think the dip is going to last very long for the Lakers.

My conclusion is that I disagree with Jared Dudley.  I would not be the least bit surprised if Love goes to the Lakers.  I would be far more surprised if he came to the Celtics.
Here's the thing with the Lakers...  They have like 30 mil in cap space.   They could free up another 5 mil if they dump Nick Young.  They could theoretically add both Kevin Love and Rondo, if they still actually want Rondo.

That gives them Rondo, Jordan Clarkson (who just finished all rookie 1st team over Marcus Smart who just finished 6th in the rookie of the year voting behind 4th place marcus smart and 5th place Joseph Nurkic with 3 total points from all voters), Julius Randle, Kevin Love and Okafor.   I mean... it wouldn't be too hard for them to trade Randle for a quality forward if they want.  I said in another thread they could probably move Randle + Clarkson for Derozan fairly easily if they wanted a scoring forward.  Yeah, the defense on that team would be questionable, but whatever...

Here's my point.  Say they cap out the salary this year.    Kobe falls off the books at the end of the season... the cap jumps 20 mil.   That means they'll have about 40 mil in cap space to add talent around Rondo, Clarkson, Randle, Love and Okafor...   Ooof.  They can replace Kobe with two max contract players.  Then Kobe prob comes back mid-season for the vet min anyways, because he'll be bored and want attention.

The year after... cap jumps another 20 mil... you got yourself Rondo, Clarkson, Randle, Love, Okafor, Max Contract 1, Max Contract 2... and now you can add Max Contract 3. 

Getting talent this summer is crucial.   The cap is going to jump next season and Boston will be competing with every team in the league in the free agent market.  Usually talent attracts other talent.

Fixed it for ya
Funny.

Neither of them received a single vote for Rookie of the year... so it's a pretty irrelevant bit of info, aint it?   Whereas 74 people voted Clarkson All-Rookie 1st team and 28 voted Smart... so no need to fix it... Clarkson was all rookie 1st team.  Smart was all Rookie 2nd team.

Clarkson has trade value.  I imagine Clarkson + Randle has considerable trade value.  Almost like trading two Marcus Smarts.  Lol jk

2011 NBA rookies
1st team Gary Neal.  2nd team Paul George.

2010 NBA rookies
1st team Brandon Jennings.  2nd team James Harden.

2009 NBA rookies
1st team Michael Beasley.  2nd team Kevin Love and Marc Gasol.

Mike
Would it be outlandish to say that Gary Neal had trade value in 2011?  Would it be crazy to say Brnadon Jennings had trade value in 2010?   Would it be an act of nuttery to say Michael Beasley had trade value in 2009?

'Course not.  Proof:  Half this forum wanted to trade Rondo for Brandon Jennings in 2009.  They saw him as a future superstar.  I'd dig up the thread for proof (I was one of the few skeptics throwing ice on it and comparing him to DaJuan Wagner), but I think clay has already shamed me enough for bumping my "i told you so" posts.

I couldn't remember a single thing that I posted about this on forum in 2009, let alone what side of a specific argument I was on. You should really put these skills to some more beneficial use.
My day job is a part-time pet psychic/part-time competitive typist.  Sometimes I get carried away on the lengthy posts when I'm training for a circuit... gotta keep the fingers nimble and taps precise.  200WPM, man.   Also, getting strong vibes in this thread that someone owns a dog... name has an A in it... or maybe an O... the dog wants to let you know it pooped in a place you'll never find.  It says it's sorry. 

Offline Ilikesports17

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If the Lakers have Kobe and Love as the core for next year, they only need to add one really good, semi-top FA and they will be right in the hunt, every bit as much as Cleveland.  Love would have to decide whether he wants to chase a ring or go to a perennially top franchise and ride out a likely dip after Kobe retires.

Moving forward, the Lakers would have Love and whoever is the other FA they sign (Rondo?, Butler?) plus a pretty good cadre of young players (Randle, Towns, Clarkson) and once Kobe is gone, they can sign another FA.  I don't think the dip is going to last very long for the Lakers.

My conclusion is that I disagree with Jared Dudley.  I would not be the least bit surprised if Love goes to the Lakers.  I would be far more surprised if he came to the Celtics.
Here's the thing with the Lakers...  They have like 30 mil in cap space.   They could free up another 5 mil if they dump Nick Young.  They could theoretically add both Kevin Love and Rondo, if they still actually want Rondo.

That gives them Rondo, Jordan Clarkson (who just finished all rookie 1st team over Marcus Smart who just finished 6th in the rookie of the year voting behind 4th place marcus smart and 5th place Joseph Nurkic with 3 total points from all voters), Julius Randle, Kevin Love and Okafor.   I mean... it wouldn't be too hard for them to trade Randle for a quality forward if they want.  I said in another thread they could probably move Randle + Clarkson for Derozan fairly easily if they wanted a scoring forward.  Yeah, the defense on that team would be questionable, but whatever...

Here's my point.  Say they cap out the salary this year.    Kobe falls off the books at the end of the season... the cap jumps 20 mil.   That means they'll have about 40 mil in cap space to add talent around Rondo, Clarkson, Randle, Love and Okafor...   Ooof.  They can replace Kobe with two max contract players.  Then Kobe prob comes back mid-season for the vet min anyways, because he'll be bored and want attention.

The year after... cap jumps another 20 mil... you got yourself Rondo, Clarkson, Randle, Love, Okafor, Max Contract 1, Max Contract 2... and now you can add Max Contract 3. 

Getting talent this summer is crucial.   The cap is going to jump next season and Boston will be competing with every team in the league in the free agent market.  Usually talent attracts other talent.

Fixed it for ya
Funny.

Neither of them received a single vote for Rookie of the year... so it's a pretty irrelevant bit of info, aint it?   Whereas 74 people voted Clarkson All-Rookie 1st team and 28 voted Smart... so no need to fix it... Clarkson was all rookie 1st team.  Smart was all Rookie 2nd team.

Clarkson has trade value.  I imagine Clarkson + Randle has considerable trade value.  Almost like trading two Marcus Smarts.  Lol jk
That package has a lot of value.

However most of that value comes from Julius Randle.
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Offline Ilikesports17

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If the Lakers have Kobe and Love as the core for next year, they only need to add one really good, semi-top FA and they will be right in the hunt, every bit as much as Cleveland.  Love would have to decide whether he wants to chase a ring or go to a perennially top franchise and ride out a likely dip after Kobe retires.

Moving forward, the Lakers would have Love and whoever is the other FA they sign (Rondo?, Butler?) plus a pretty good cadre of young players (Randle, Towns, Clarkson) and once Kobe is gone, they can sign another FA.  I don't think the dip is going to last very long for the Lakers.

My conclusion is that I disagree with Jared Dudley.  I would not be the least bit surprised if Love goes to the Lakers.  I would be far more surprised if he came to the Celtics.
Here's the thing with the Lakers...  They have like 30 mil in cap space.   They could free up another 5 mil if they dump Nick Young.  They could theoretically add both Kevin Love and Rondo, if they still actually want Rondo.

That gives them Rondo, Jordan Clarkson (who just finished all rookie 1st team over Marcus Smart who just finished 6th in the rookie of the year voting behind 4th place marcus smart and 5th place Joseph Nurkic with 3 total points from all voters), Julius Randle, Kevin Love and Okafor.   I mean... it wouldn't be too hard for them to trade Randle for a quality forward if they want.  I said in another thread they could probably move Randle + Clarkson for Derozan fairly easily if they wanted a scoring forward.  Yeah, the defense on that team would be questionable, but whatever...

Here's my point.  Say they cap out the salary this year.    Kobe falls off the books at the end of the season... the cap jumps 20 mil.   That means they'll have about 40 mil in cap space to add talent around Rondo, Clarkson, Randle, Love and Okafor...   Ooof.  They can replace Kobe with two max contract players.  Then Kobe prob comes back mid-season for the vet min anyways, because he'll be bored and want attention.

The year after... cap jumps another 20 mil... you got yourself Rondo, Clarkson, Randle, Love, Okafor, Max Contract 1, Max Contract 2... and now you can add Max Contract 3. 

Getting talent this summer is crucial.   The cap is going to jump next season and Boston will be competing with every team in the league in the free agent market.  Usually talent attracts other talent.

Fixed it for ya
Funny.

Neither of them received a single vote for Rookie of the year... so it's a pretty irrelevant bit of info, aint it?   Whereas 74 people voted Clarkson All-Rookie 1st team and 28 voted Smart... so no need to fix it... Clarkson was all rookie 1st team.  Smart was all Rookie 2nd team.

Clarkson has trade value.  I imagine Clarkson + Randle has considerable trade value.  Almost like trading two Marcus Smarts.  Lol jk

I think you're still in the undecided phase of what team you're going to end up rooting for. It's a close call between Philly and LAL, huh? However, the monkey wrench is Minny. This could end up being a 3 team race for your loyalty.
I'm a Celtic fan who doesn't ignore facts.  Seems from the all rookie voting, one can come to the conclusion that Jordan Clarkson, at least in the eyes of "a panel of sportswriters and broadcasters throughout the United States and Canada" had a better rookie season than Marcus Smart.   Take that to mean what you will... and how it relates to the widespread opinion of Jordan Clarkson's trade value... which was what I was addressing.   I used Smart for context since I understand that most diehard Celtic fans have trouble seeing through the green haze and determining value of players who they don't watch daily.   NBA Gm's may disagree... but seems when a "panel of sportswriters and broadcasters throughout the United States and Canada" were polled, 74 voted Clarkson All-Rookie 1st team... 28 voted Smart all-rookie 1st team.   So yeah... nice piece to the Lakers puzzle right there.

Smart was playing off the ball for a team that was playing in games that actually mattered. Clarkson was putting up garbage numbers in meaningless games. Had their roles been reversed the numbers would've been far different and you would've been going on and on, on how we should've drafted Smart instead of (insert player here).

If you actually think east coast sportswriters were staying up late to watch the wasteland that was the LAL, and not just going off of boxscores, then gullible would be a fair description.
Regardless of who had the better season. I think everyone including LarBrd can agree that Smart is the better prospect and no one would trade Smart for Clarkson. Thats all that really matters in the Smart Clarkson debate.

As for trade value. Clarksons got a good amount.

However Beasley and Jennings were number 2 and 10 picks respectively. I think Clarksons going to have to prove hes for real a bit longer before teams give up real assets to get him.
Quote from: George W. Bush
Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Offline oldtype

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If the Lakers have Kobe and Love as the core for next year, they only need to add one really good, semi-top FA and they will be right in the hunt, every bit as much as Cleveland.  Love would have to decide whether he wants to chase a ring or go to a perennially top franchise and ride out a likely dip after Kobe retires.

Moving forward, the Lakers would have Love and whoever is the other FA they sign (Rondo?, Butler?) plus a pretty good cadre of young players (Randle, Towns, Clarkson) and once Kobe is gone, they can sign another FA.  I don't think the dip is going to last very long for the Lakers.

My conclusion is that I disagree with Jared Dudley.  I would not be the least bit surprised if Love goes to the Lakers.  I would be far more surprised if he came to the Celtics.
Here's the thing with the Lakers...  They have like 30 mil in cap space.   They could free up another 5 mil if they dump Nick Young.  They could theoretically add both Kevin Love and Rondo, if they still actually want Rondo.

That gives them Rondo, Jordan Clarkson (who just finished all rookie 1st team over Marcus Smart), Julius Randle, Kevin Love and Okafor.   I mean... it wouldn't be too hard for them to trade Randle for a quality forward if they want.  I said in another thread they could probably move Randle + Clarkson for Derozan fairly easily if they wanted a scoring forward.  Yeah, the defense on that team would be questionable, but whatever...

Here's my point.  Say they cap out the salary this year.    Kobe falls off the books at the end of the season... the cap jumps 20 mil.   That means they'll have about 40 mil in cap space to add talent around Rondo, Clarkson, Randle, Love and Okafor...   Ooof.  They can replace Kobe with two max contract players.  Then Kobe prob comes back mid-season for the vet min anyways, because he'll be bored and want attention.

The year after... cap jumps another 20 mil... you got yourself Rondo, Clarkson, Randle, Love, Okafor, Max Contract 1, Max Contract 2... and now you can add Max Contract 3. 

Getting talent this summer is crucial.   The cap is going to jump next season and Boston will be competing with every team in the league in the free agent market.  Usually talent attracts other talent.

You've just rattled off a scenario that includes about fifteen different variables going the Lakers' way. If you do that, you could make any team's future look peachy. The Celtics would be a contender too if they somehow got Love and another good FA to sign for them.

Once the cap jumps next year, everyone has cap space. If I'm Love, I'm not thinking "well, if I go to the Lakers and suffer through a year of Kobe treating me like **** and all the stars align EXACTLY right, I could be on a contender." I'm thinking "where can I find a well-run, stable club where I would be the man but could also contend for a title relatively soon."

That might not be the Celtics, but it sure as hell isn't the Lakers.



Great words from a great man

Offline LarBrd33

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If the Lakers have Kobe and Love as the core for next year, they only need to add one really good, semi-top FA and they will be right in the hunt, every bit as much as Cleveland.  Love would have to decide whether he wants to chase a ring or go to a perennially top franchise and ride out a likely dip after Kobe retires.

Moving forward, the Lakers would have Love and whoever is the other FA they sign (Rondo?, Butler?) plus a pretty good cadre of young players (Randle, Towns, Clarkson) and once Kobe is gone, they can sign another FA.  I don't think the dip is going to last very long for the Lakers.

My conclusion is that I disagree with Jared Dudley.  I would not be the least bit surprised if Love goes to the Lakers.  I would be far more surprised if he came to the Celtics.
Here's the thing with the Lakers...  They have like 30 mil in cap space.   They could free up another 5 mil if they dump Nick Young.  They could theoretically add both Kevin Love and Rondo, if they still actually want Rondo.

That gives them Rondo, Jordan Clarkson (who just finished all rookie 1st team over Marcus Smart who just finished 6th in the rookie of the year voting behind 4th place marcus smart and 5th place Joseph Nurkic with 3 total points from all voters), Julius Randle, Kevin Love and Okafor.   I mean... it wouldn't be too hard for them to trade Randle for a quality forward if they want.  I said in another thread they could probably move Randle + Clarkson for Derozan fairly easily if they wanted a scoring forward.  Yeah, the defense on that team would be questionable, but whatever...

Here's my point.  Say they cap out the salary this year.    Kobe falls off the books at the end of the season... the cap jumps 20 mil.   That means they'll have about 40 mil in cap space to add talent around Rondo, Clarkson, Randle, Love and Okafor...   Ooof.  They can replace Kobe with two max contract players.  Then Kobe prob comes back mid-season for the vet min anyways, because he'll be bored and want attention.

The year after... cap jumps another 20 mil... you got yourself Rondo, Clarkson, Randle, Love, Okafor, Max Contract 1, Max Contract 2... and now you can add Max Contract 3. 

Getting talent this summer is crucial.   The cap is going to jump next season and Boston will be competing with every team in the league in the free agent market.  Usually talent attracts other talent.

Fixed it for ya
Funny.

Neither of them received a single vote for Rookie of the year... so it's a pretty irrelevant bit of info, aint it?   Whereas 74 people voted Clarkson All-Rookie 1st team and 28 voted Smart... so no need to fix it... Clarkson was all rookie 1st team.  Smart was all Rookie 2nd team.

Clarkson has trade value.  I imagine Clarkson + Randle has considerable trade value.  Almost like trading two Marcus Smarts.  Lol jk

I think you're still in the undecided phase of what team you're going to end up rooting for. It's a close call between Philly and LAL, huh? However, the monkey wrench is Minny. This could end up being a 3 team race for your loyalty.
I'm a Celtic fan who doesn't ignore facts.  Seems from the all rookie voting, one can come to the conclusion that Jordan Clarkson, at least in the eyes of "a panel of sportswriters and broadcasters throughout the United States and Canada" had a better rookie season than Marcus Smart.   Take that to mean what you will... and how it relates to the widespread opinion of Jordan Clarkson's trade value... which was what I was addressing.   I used Smart for context since I understand that most diehard Celtic fans have trouble seeing through the green haze and determining value of players who they don't watch daily.   NBA Gm's may disagree... but seems when a "panel of sportswriters and broadcasters throughout the United States and Canada" were polled, 74 voted Clarkson All-Rookie 1st team... 28 voted Smart all-rookie 1st team.   So yeah... nice piece to the Lakers puzzle right there.

Smart was playing off the ball for a team that was playing in games that actually mattered. Clarkson was putting up garbage numbers in meaningless games. Had their roles been reversed the numbers would've been far different and you would've been going on and on, on how we should've drafted Smart instead of (insert player here).

If you actually think east coast sportswriters were staying up late to watch the wasteland that was the LAL, and not just going off of boxscores, then gullible would be a fair description.
Regardless of who had the better season. I think everyone including LarBrd can agree that Smart is the better prospect and no one would trade Smart for Clarkson. Thats all that really matters in the Smart Clarkson debate.

As for trade value. Clarksons got a good amount.

However Beasley and Jennings were number 2 and 10 picks respectively. I think Clarksons going to have to prove hes for real a bit longer before teams give up real assets to get him.

I sure as hell wouldn't gamble on him... but he's a 6'5 guard who is 22 years old and spent the second half of the season averaging 17 points, 5.4 assists, 4.6 rebounds, 1 steal on 48%/31%/84% shooting ... enough to finish 1st team all-rookie over our finest trade chip.  Not bad if he can keep it up.  Might be a building block... might be a trade piece.  He's worth mentioning when listing off a potential Laker team next year.

Counter-argument to Clarkson:  22 year old Kendall Marshall spending the first half of 2013 averaging 10 points, 9.5 assists, 3 rebounds, 45%/47%/64% for the Lakers... he fell apart the 2nd half of the season and got himself waived. 

Offline celticsclay

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If the Lakers have Kobe and Love as the core for next year, they only need to add one really good, semi-top FA and they will be right in the hunt, every bit as much as Cleveland.  Love would have to decide whether he wants to chase a ring or go to a perennially top franchise and ride out a likely dip after Kobe retires.

Moving forward, the Lakers would have Love and whoever is the other FA they sign (Rondo?, Butler?) plus a pretty good cadre of young players (Randle, Towns, Clarkson) and once Kobe is gone, they can sign another FA.  I don't think the dip is going to last very long for the Lakers.

My conclusion is that I disagree with Jared Dudley.  I would not be the least bit surprised if Love goes to the Lakers.  I would be far more surprised if he came to the Celtics.
Here's the thing with the Lakers...  They have like 30 mil in cap space.   They could free up another 5 mil if they dump Nick Young.  They could theoretically add both Kevin Love and Rondo, if they still actually want Rondo.

That gives them Rondo, Jordan Clarkson (who just finished all rookie 1st team over Marcus Smart who just finished 6th in the rookie of the year voting behind 4th place marcus smart and 5th place Joseph Nurkic with 3 total points from all voters), Julius Randle, Kevin Love and Okafor.   I mean... it wouldn't be too hard for them to trade Randle for a quality forward if they want.  I said in another thread they could probably move Randle + Clarkson for Derozan fairly easily if they wanted a scoring forward.  Yeah, the defense on that team would be questionable, but whatever...

Here's my point.  Say they cap out the salary this year.    Kobe falls off the books at the end of the season... the cap jumps 20 mil.   That means they'll have about 40 mil in cap space to add talent around Rondo, Clarkson, Randle, Love and Okafor...   Ooof.  They can replace Kobe with two max contract players.  Then Kobe prob comes back mid-season for the vet min anyways, because he'll be bored and want attention.

The year after... cap jumps another 20 mil... you got yourself Rondo, Clarkson, Randle, Love, Okafor, Max Contract 1, Max Contract 2... and now you can add Max Contract 3. 

Getting talent this summer is crucial.   The cap is going to jump next season and Boston will be competing with every team in the league in the free agent market.  Usually talent attracts other talent.

Fixed it for ya
Funny.

Neither of them received a single vote for Rookie of the year... so it's a pretty irrelevant bit of info, aint it?   Whereas 74 people voted Clarkson All-Rookie 1st team and 28 voted Smart... so no need to fix it... Clarkson was all rookie 1st team.  Smart was all Rookie 2nd team.

Clarkson has trade value.  I imagine Clarkson + Randle has considerable trade value.  Almost like trading two Marcus Smarts.  Lol jk

I think you're still in the undecided phase of what team you're going to end up rooting for. It's a close call between Philly and LAL, huh? However, the monkey wrench is Minny. This could end up being a 3 team race for your loyalty.
I'm a Celtic fan who doesn't ignore facts.  Seems from the all rookie voting, one can come to the conclusion that Jordan Clarkson, at least in the eyes of "a panel of sportswriters and broadcasters throughout the United States and Canada" had a better rookie season than Marcus Smart.   Take that to mean what you will... and how it relates to the widespread opinion of Jordan Clarkson's trade value... which was what I was addressing.   I used Smart for context since I understand that most diehard Celtic fans have trouble seeing through the green haze and determining value of players who they don't watch daily.   NBA Gm's may disagree... but seems when a "panel of sportswriters and broadcasters throughout the United States and Canada" were polled, 74 voted Clarkson All-Rookie 1st team... 28 voted Smart all-rookie 1st team.   So yeah... nice piece to the Lakers puzzle right there.

Smart was playing off the ball for a team that was playing in games that actually mattered. Clarkson was putting up garbage numbers in meaningless games. Had their roles been reversed the numbers would've been far different and you would've been going on and on, on how we should've drafted Smart instead of (insert player here).

If you actually think east coast sportswriters were staying up late to watch the wasteland that was the LAL, and not just going off of boxscores, then gullible would be a fair description.
Regardless of who had the better season. I think everyone including LarBrd can agree that Smart is the better prospect and no one would trade Smart for Clarkson. Thats all that really matters in the Smart Clarkson debate.

As for trade value. Clarksons got a good amount.

However Beasley and Jennings were number 2 and 10 picks respectively. I think Clarksons going to have to prove hes for real a bit longer before teams give up real assets to get him.

This.. players outperform their draft position all the time and gain tremendous amount of value. Draymond Green is a great example of this.

However, he has had to do it for a few seasons, on a top level club to establish his value. I think an NBA executive would have to be pretty stupid to go all in on a player that put up big numbers in blowouts for about 40 games. The guy started 39 nights and played 59 total.

It is just way to big a risk to trade anything of value for him. Even his coach was saying at the end of the season that he was a piece for them, but he wasn't sure if he was a piece you build around or just a piece. Ironically, the Lakers already have a point guard that played brilliantly for about 40 games on their roster this past off season, Jeremy Lin.

Edit: I'll give you a TP for including a really good counter argument in Marshall.

Offline oldtype

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I'd say Clarkson and Smart had comparably good seasons, but I think you'd be hard-pressed to argue that they'd have similar trade value.

As celticsclay mentioned, you get late picks that outperform their draft position all the time. (KJ McDaniels was getting ROY buzz early in the season.) They have to do well over a significantly longer stretch to prove that almost every NBA scout that watched them initially was actually wrong.

Smart's pedigree and draft position still holds a lot of weight.

(Randle doesn't even bear mentioning. He's played all of 15 minutes of NBA basketball and still needs to prove that he can recover from his injury.)


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Offline LarBrd33

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I'd say Clarkson and Smart had comparably good seasons, but I think you'd be hard-pressed to argue that they'd have similar trade value.

As celticsclay mentioned, you get late picks that outperform their draft position all the time. (KJ McDaniels was getting ROY buzz early in the season.) They have to do well over a significantly longer stretch to prove that almost every NBA scout that watched them initially was actually wrong.

Smart's pedigree and draft position still holds a lot of weight.

(Randle doesn't even bear mentioning. He's played all of 15 minutes of NBA basketball and still needs to prove that he can recover from his injury.)
Combine Clarkson and Randle together, that's an intriguing duo that can probably fetch a mediocre fringe star on a team rebuilding... like Derozan, for example. 

Offline oldtype

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I'd say Clarkson and Smart had comparably good seasons, but I think you'd be hard-pressed to argue that they'd have similar trade value.

As celticsclay mentioned, you get late picks that outperform their draft position all the time. (KJ McDaniels was getting ROY buzz early in the season.) They have to do well over a significantly longer stretch to prove that almost every NBA scout that watched them initially was actually wrong.

Smart's pedigree and draft position still holds a lot of weight.

(Randle doesn't even bear mentioning. He's played all of 15 minutes of NBA basketball and still needs to prove that he can recover from his injury.)
Combine Clarkson and Randle together, that's an intriguing duo that can probably fetch a mediocre fringe star on a team rebuilding... like Derozan, for example.

Yeah I might do that deal if I'm Toronto, but it's not like Smart (or a couple mediocre first rounders from us for that matter) couldn't do the same.

I don't see those two guys being easily flipped for a foundational superstar for the Lakers.


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Offline LarBrd33

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I'd say Clarkson and Smart had comparably good seasons, but I think you'd be hard-pressed to argue that they'd have similar trade value.

As celticsclay mentioned, you get late picks that outperform their draft position all the time. (KJ McDaniels was getting ROY buzz early in the season.) They have to do well over a significantly longer stretch to prove that almost every NBA scout that watched them initially was actually wrong.

Smart's pedigree and draft position still holds a lot of weight.

(Randle doesn't even bear mentioning. He's played all of 15 minutes of NBA basketball and still needs to prove that he can recover from his injury.)
Combine Clarkson and Randle together, that's an intriguing duo that can probably fetch a mediocre fringe star on a team rebuilding... like Derozan, for example.

Yeah I might do that deal if I'm Toronto, but it's not like Smart (or a couple mediocre first rounders from us for that matter) couldn't do the same.

I don't see those two guys being easily flipped for a foundational superstar for the Lakers.
My point was that if they sign Love and Rondo, they probably don't need Randle and Clarkson... so they could probably trade them... and they could probably get something substantial.   I imagine we could get something similar for Marcus Smart + #16, but without Rondo, Kobe, Kevin Love and Okafor on board, it doesn't make much sense for us to add a Derozan-level talent. 

The premise of this thread is that the Lakers would be a bad destination for Kevin Love.   I disagree with this.   They are set up very well heading forward.  It's as good a place as any for Kevin Love long-term... and the dude is about as Los Angeles as it gets.

Offline oldtype

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I'd say Clarkson and Smart had comparably good seasons, but I think you'd be hard-pressed to argue that they'd have similar trade value.

As celticsclay mentioned, you get late picks that outperform their draft position all the time. (KJ McDaniels was getting ROY buzz early in the season.) They have to do well over a significantly longer stretch to prove that almost every NBA scout that watched them initially was actually wrong.

Smart's pedigree and draft position still holds a lot of weight.

(Randle doesn't even bear mentioning. He's played all of 15 minutes of NBA basketball and still needs to prove that he can recover from his injury.)
Combine Clarkson and Randle together, that's an intriguing duo that can probably fetch a mediocre fringe star on a team rebuilding... like Derozan, for example.

Yeah I might do that deal if I'm Toronto, but it's not like Smart (or a couple mediocre first rounders from us for that matter) couldn't do the same.

I don't see those two guys being easily flipped for a foundational superstar for the Lakers.
My point was that if they sign Love and Rondo, they probably don't need Randle and Clarkson... so they could probably trade them... and they could probably get something substantial.   I imagine we could get something similar for Marcus Smart + #16, but without Rondo, Kobe, Kevin Love and Okafor on board, it doesn't make much sense for us to add a Derozan-level talent.

"If they sign Love and Rondo" being the key word there. If we signed Love and (another good free agent not named Rajon Rondo) we'd probably be in similar or better shape. Same probably goes for any other team in the NBA.

"They would be one trade from contending if they signed two top free agents" really isn't saying much.

(unrelated to the main point, but Smart + 16 for Derozan would be a horrendous trade. Smart for Derozan straight up is probably a fair trade and even then I wouldn't do it.)


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Offline rondohondo

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so Rhonda, who just got thrown off his team in the playoffs, and Kobe, who has played 41 total games the last two seasons,and shot 37% last year will attract love?

Right...

Offline LarBrd33

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I'd say Clarkson and Smart had comparably good seasons, but I think you'd be hard-pressed to argue that they'd have similar trade value.

As celticsclay mentioned, you get late picks that outperform their draft position all the time. (KJ McDaniels was getting ROY buzz early in the season.) They have to do well over a significantly longer stretch to prove that almost every NBA scout that watched them initially was actually wrong.

Smart's pedigree and draft position still holds a lot of weight.

(Randle doesn't even bear mentioning. He's played all of 15 minutes of NBA basketball and still needs to prove that he can recover from his injury.)
Combine Clarkson and Randle together, that's an intriguing duo that can probably fetch a mediocre fringe star on a team rebuilding... like Derozan, for example.

Yeah I might do that deal if I'm Toronto, but it's not like Smart (or a couple mediocre first rounders from us for that matter) couldn't do the same.

I don't see those two guys being easily flipped for a foundational superstar for the Lakers.
My point was that if they sign Love and Rondo, they probably don't need Randle and Clarkson... so they could probably trade them... and they could probably get something substantial.   I imagine we could get something similar for Marcus Smart + #16, but without Rondo, Kobe, Kevin Love and Okafor on board, it doesn't make much sense for us to add a Derozan-level talent.

"If they sign Love and Rondo" being the key word there. If we signed Love and (another good free agent not named Rajon Rondo) we'd probably be in similar or better shape. Same probably goes for any other team in the NBA.

"They would be one trade from contending if they signed two top free agents" really isn't saying much.

(unrelated to the main point, but Smart + 16 for Derozan would be a horrendous trade. Smart for Derozan straight up is probably a fair trade and even then I wouldn't do it.)
Premise of this thread is that Kevin Love going to Los Angeles would be a surprise.   It would be anything but a surprise.   Most likely he stays in Cleveland or goes to the Lakers.

I'm not arguing for the Lakers contender status.  I'm arguing against the idea that the Lakers are a bad fit.  He's probably going there if he leaves Cleveland.   

Offline oldtype

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I'd say Clarkson and Smart had comparably good seasons, but I think you'd be hard-pressed to argue that they'd have similar trade value.

As celticsclay mentioned, you get late picks that outperform their draft position all the time. (KJ McDaniels was getting ROY buzz early in the season.) They have to do well over a significantly longer stretch to prove that almost every NBA scout that watched them initially was actually wrong.

Smart's pedigree and draft position still holds a lot of weight.

(Randle doesn't even bear mentioning. He's played all of 15 minutes of NBA basketball and still needs to prove that he can recover from his injury.)
Combine Clarkson and Randle together, that's an intriguing duo that can probably fetch a mediocre fringe star on a team rebuilding... like Derozan, for example.

Yeah I might do that deal if I'm Toronto, but it's not like Smart (or a couple mediocre first rounders from us for that matter) couldn't do the same.

I don't see those two guys being easily flipped for a foundational superstar for the Lakers.
My point was that if they sign Love and Rondo, they probably don't need Randle and Clarkson... so they could probably trade them... and they could probably get something substantial.   I imagine we could get something similar for Marcus Smart + #16, but without Rondo, Kobe, Kevin Love and Okafor on board, it doesn't make much sense for us to add a Derozan-level talent.

"If they sign Love and Rondo" being the key word there. If we signed Love and (another good free agent not named Rajon Rondo) we'd probably be in similar or better shape. Same probably goes for any other team in the NBA.

"They would be one trade from contending if they signed two top free agents" really isn't saying much.

(unrelated to the main point, but Smart + 16 for Derozan would be a horrendous trade. Smart for Derozan straight up is probably a fair trade and even then I wouldn't do it.)
Premise of this thread is that Kevin Love going to Los Angeles would be a surprise.   It would be anything but a surprise.   Most likely he stays in Cleveland or goes to the Lakers.

I'm not arguing for the Lakers contender status.  I'm arguing against the idea that the Lakers are a bad fit.  He's probably going there if he leaves Cleveland.

But this all started because you're arguing that he'd be a good fit based on a bunch of things that may or may not happen. My point is that plenty of teams out there have assets as good or better than the Lakers and everyone will have cap space in 2016 - if the stars align, anyplace could become a good situation. If I'm Love (or any sane player) I don't trust LA's notoriously incompetent front office to build a contender around me nor do I trust their dinosaur coach to utilize me properly.

I suppose it's just a matter of opinion.


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