2015 Draft 2nd round rim protectors: Richaun Holmes and Rakeem Christmas

[Tr1boy]

Neither to be honest. At #33 I'm looking for upside and I'm really keen on taking Cliff Alexander. The guy would've been a top 10 pick last season if the NBA still allowed high school players to be drafted. A mediocre 1/2 season in Kansas, where Self might not have utilized him correctly, has lowered his value. However, the size, length, youth, and upside are all still there.

Overrated imo. Next Thomas Robinson

I wouldn't call Alexander going in the 2nd rd as overrated. If he's the next Robinson then we should definitely take him at #33. At worst he'll be a rotational player, which is a solid pick for the 2nd rd.

Robinson actually did very well in his stint in Philly. He averaged 8.8 PPG and 7.7 RPG in just 18.5 MPG.

Do we need to add more value? We need missing pieces/bpa

Alexandre main specialty is "bullying" , utilizing strength, motor. But is undersized,  just ok leaping ability. Good wingspan. He has an inconsistent jump shot. Not skilled like sully, david west

Maybe like the next Amir Johnson.

Yes, we need to add more value. Why would that ever be a problem?

Undersized?

Alexander HT 6-8.5   WT 240   5% BF
Christmas HT 6-9.75   WT 243   9.6% BF
Holmes HT 6-9.5   WT 243   8.8% BF

The big thing are the ages. Alexander 19, Christmas 23, and Holmes 21. That considerably limits the upside of Christmas and Homes (turning 24 and 22 in a few months).

Alexander also has a better than "good wingspan". His wingspan is 7-3.5.

Eddie20 , he cant jump. Does not have exceptional leaping skills. Is not really skilled in general.

So what is he going to give you?

If we're going to rely on Christmas to play major minutes for us and give us the interior defense we lack, then buddy it's going to be a long season.

How do you know Alexander can't jump? You say it with such certainty. He wasn't even tested at the combine. Leaping ability isn't the most important aspect around. Randolph, Big Al, etc. aren't the best leapers around, but they give you a lot.

The kid is only 19 years old. You are comparing him to players 2-4 years older, those years being crucial in a players development. You can't judge him on what he currently is, something I think your'e guilty of, but rather on what he potentially could become.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ryoOAq9J24

Your a dreamer my friend.

He should of stayed another year in college to work on his game then. He accomplished very little in his 1st season.

[Tr1boy]

I give props to a guy like Christmas. He was not afraid to stay back and improve on his body and game.    Also participated in drills, 5 on 5 at the NBA combine. Something CA avoided doing.

[Eddie20]

Neither to be honest. At #33 I'm looking for upside and I'm really keen on taking Cliff Alexander. The guy would've been a top 10 pick last season if the NBA still allowed high school players to be drafted. A mediocre 1/2 season in Kansas, where Self might not have utilized him correctly, has lowered his value. However, the size, length, youth, and upside are all still there.

Overrated imo. Next Thomas Robinson

I wouldn't call Alexander going in the 2nd rd as overrated. If he's the next Robinson then we should definitely take him at #33. At worst he'll be a rotational player, which is a solid pick for the 2nd rd.

Robinson actually did very well in his stint in Philly. He averaged 8.8 PPG and 7.7 RPG in just 18.5 MPG.

Do we need to add more value? We need missing pieces/bpa

Alexandre main specialty is "bullying" , utilizing strength, motor. But is undersized,  just ok leaping ability. Good wingspan. He has an inconsistent jump shot. Not skilled like sully, david west

Maybe like the next Amir Johnson.

Yes, we need to add more value. Why would that ever be a problem?

Undersized?

Alexander HT 6-8.5   WT 240   5% BF
Christmas HT 6-9.75   WT 243   9.6% BF
Holmes HT 6-9.5   WT 243   8.8% BF

The big thing are the ages. Alexander 19, Christmas 23, and Holmes 21. That considerably limits the upside of Christmas and Homes (turning 24 and 22 in a few months).

Alexander also has a better than "good wingspan". His wingspan is 7-3.5.

Eddie20 , he cant jump. Does not have exceptional leaping skills. Is not really skilled in general.

So what is he going to give you?

If we're going to rely on Christmas to play major minutes for us and give us the interior defense we lack, then buddy it's going to be a long season.

How do you know Alexander can't jump? You say it with such certainty. He wasn't even tested at the combine. Leaping ability isn't the most important aspect around. Randolph, Big Al, etc. aren't the best leapers around, but they give you a lot.

The kid is only 19 years old. You are comparing him to players 2-4 years older, those years being crucial in a players development. You can't judge him on what he currently is, something I think your'e guilty of, but rather on what he potentially could become.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ryoOAq9J24

Your a dreamer my friend.

He should of stayed another year in college to work on his game then. He accomplished very little in his 1st season.

Can you elaborate as to what I'm dreaming about?

You're right, he should've stayed another year, but he couldn't.

Ford-

Alexander almost surely would've been better off returning to Kansas for his sophomore season where many scouts believed, with improvement, he could've worked his way back into the late lottery or mid-first round. However, an NCAA investigation into his eligibility ended his freshman season early, and it's likely the investigation was a primary factor his decision to declare for the draft, as Alexander risked being ineligible next season.

[Eddie20]

Oh, and this is what ESPN has on all 3 guys

Alexander

Positives   
Strong, athletic big man
Crazy long wingspan
A terror in the paint
Attacks the rim on both ends of the floor
Explosive leaper
NBA body and strength
Excellent rebounder and shot blocker
Surprising lateral quickness for his size
Great motor

Negatives   
A tad undersized for his position
Needs to add a midrange game
Low basketball IQ, plays on instinct

Christmas

Positives   
Excellent defensive player
Good rebounder and shot-blocker
NBA body
Runs the floor well
Aggressive defender
Solid passer out of the post
Improved offensive player as a senior

Negatives   
Slow developmental curve
Old for his class, turns 24 in December 2015

Holmes

Positives   
Long, athletic defender
Good body
Explosive leaper
Excellent shot blocker
Good rebounder
Started to show the makings of a solid perimeter game as a senior
Very high motor

Negatives   
A bit undersized for his natural position at center
Still a bit raw offensively
A bit inconsistent

[Tr1boy]

Espn is wrong

CA is not an explosive leaper/above the rim kind of guy.  Why did he avoid the tests also? What is he afraid of? He cant seriously think he is a 1st round pick guaranteed to bypass the tests, 5 on 5

Holmes, Mickey are explosive leapers not CA. Maybe his new chiseled body will help a little . but nobody knows because he wont let the public see

[Eddie20]

Espn is wrong

CA is not an explosive leaper/above the rim kind of guy.  Why did he avoid the tests also? What is he afraid of? He cant seriously think he is a 1st round pick guaranteed to bypass the tests, 5 on 5

Holmes, Mickey are explosive leapers not CA. Maybe his new chiseled body will help a little . but nobody knows because he wont let the public see

Who knows why? Many players skip the combine and do the exact same testing (i.e. vertical testing) when they visit teams for workouts. So based on him skipping all the athletic testing means he'd automatically do poorly? Is that what the video shows you above? That he can't jump? If so, you might want to watch it again. He's not an out of the world leaper, but jumping ability isn't a weakness at all.

[Humble G]

Triboy nice find on Richaun Holmes. TP

really like this kid, he is slightly undersized but the NBA is shrinking imo and Holmes would be just fine (size wise) I wonder if he could consistently knock down the 3, definitely looks like he can stroke it. Maybe he can grow into a avg. man's serge ibaka

[Tr1boy]

Triboy nice find on Richaun Holmes. TP

really like this kid, he is slightly undersized but the NBA is shrinking imo and Holmes would be just fine (size wise) I wonder if he could consistently knock down the 3, definitely looks like he can stroke it. Maybe he can grow into a avg. man's serge ibaka

Holmes has good size for a pf.  Very good leap from standstill and max (36 inches). Quick leaper . Strong kid

Plus ability to score a little from the post and shoot the 3. Sounds like a good fit under CBS system

I hope to get him with the 33rd worse case scenerio. I think teams are hurting for athletic, explosive big players and guys like upshaw, christmas, mickey will be drafted earlier than people think

[Celts Fan 508]

Obviously I would rather have Alexander than either of Holmes and Christmas,as most would.  But I was thinking this was more for pick 45, no way Alexander is there at 45, he might not even make it to 33, Holmes and Christmas probably will both be there at 45.

[Future Celtics Owner]

Neither to be honest. At #33 I'm looking for upside and I'm really keen on taking Cliff Alexander. The guy would've been a top 10 pick last season if the NBA still allowed high school players to be drafted. A mediocre 1/2 season in Kansas, where Self might not have utilized him correctly, has lowered his value. However, the size, length, youth, and upside are all still there.

Overrated imo. Next Thomas Robinson

I wouldn't call Alexander going in the 2nd rd as overrated. If he's the next Robinson then we should definitely take him at #33. At worst he'll be a rotational player, which is a solid pick for the 2nd rd.

Robinson actually did very well in his stint in Philly. He averaged 8.8 PPG and 7.7 RPG in just 18.5 MPG.

Do we need to add more value? We need missing pieces/bpa

Alexandre main specialty is "bullying" , utilizing strength, motor. But is undersized,  just ok leaping ability. Good wingspan. He has an inconsistent jump shot. Not skilled like sully, david west

Maybe like the next Amir Johnson.

Yes, we need to add more value. Why would that ever be a problem?

Undersized?

Alexander HT 6-8.5   WT 240   5% BF
Christmas HT 6-9.75   WT 243   9.6% BF
Holmes HT 6-9.5   WT 243   8.8% BF

The big thing are the ages. Alexander 19, Christmas 23, and Holmes 21. That considerably limits the upside of Christmas and Homes (turning 24 and 22 in a few months).

Alexander also has a better than "good wingspan". His wingspan is 7-3.5.

Eddie20 , he cant jump. Does not have exceptional leaping skills. Is not really skilled in general.

So what is he going to give you?

If we're going to rely on Christmas to play major minutes for us and give us the interior defense we lack, then buddy it's going to be a long season.

How do you know Alexander can't jump? You say it with such certainty. He wasn't even tested at the combine. Leaping ability isn't the most important aspect around. Randolph, Big Al, etc. aren't the best leapers around, but they give you a lot.

The kid is only 19 years old. You are comparing him to players 2-4 years older, those years being crucial in a players development. You can't judge him on what he currently is, something I think your'e guilty of, but rather on what he potentially could become.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ryoOAq9J24

Your a dreamer my friend.

He should of stayed another year in college to work on his game then. He accomplished very little in his 1st season.

Can you elaborate as to what I'm dreaming about?

You're right, he should've stayed another year, but he couldn't.

Ford-

Alexander almost surely would've been better off returning to Kansas for his sophomore season where many scouts believed, with improvement, he could've worked his way back into the late lottery or mid-first round. However, an NCAA investigation into his eligibility ended his freshman season early, and it's likely the investigation was a primary factor his decision to declare for the draft, as Alexander risked being ineligible next season.

You can say a lot about Cliff Alexander, but not that he isn't  an "above the rim" type player.
The curious case of Cliff, he just got into the starting lineup and then was ruled ineligable for the rest of the season, the big12 tourney, and march madness. Remember how Oubre fell in the ranks before he started to get Self's system? Maybe CA needed more time.

I'd take a flier on CA. He's undersized but has elite length: 7'3.5'' wingspan and 9'1.5'' standing reach.
He most def needs to work hard and understand the game. Anyways I think he is a high upside pick.

[Eddie20]

Alexander

"First off, I was coming off the bench starting this season," he said. "Then when I was playing, I didn’t live up to my expectations. And when I sat out, it hurt me. So I just need to redeem myself, just come back and get that hunger, get back hungry."

Added Alexander: "I think Boston got a good feel for it today."

The 6-foot-9 forward has an NBA-ready body with a long wingspan (7-foot-4). He might not have been ready for the NBA jump, but the NCAA issues forced the issue. Now teams like the Celtics are trying to figure out where he should be drafted.

"Cliff’s very athletic -- very athletic and strong," Ainge said. "He can shoot a little better than you could see at Kansas."

The Celtics put an emphasis on targeting high-character players who fit their culture.

"Our culture that we’re trying to establish here is important," Ainge said. "The coaches spend time with these guys, maybe more than their families, so you want to make sure they can exist in a team setting and be part of what we’re trying to build. We do the best we can. We have limited interaction with these guys, we have to rely a lot on what we hear from other people about their character, but we do our best to evaluate that, with the recognition that all these young guys have to grow up."

Asked about Alexander's situation, Ainge added: "I think we all know what happened. It’s certainly not the end of the world. I don’t think it reflects everything that Cliff is about."

[D Dub]

I still like that guy from St. Johns-- Obekpa. 

Looks like he'll go un-drafted, but from what I've seen of him he has great potential as a rim protector. 

[Tr1boy]

I still like that guy from St. Johns-- Obekpa. 

Looks like he'll go un-drafted, but from what I've seen of him he has great potential as a rim protector.

per nbadraft.net he has not declared and will be available for the 2016 draft

[D Dub]

I still like that guy from St. Johns-- Obekpa. 

Looks like he'll go un-drafted, but from what I've seen of him he has great potential as a rim protector.

per nbadraft.net he has not declared and will be available for the 2016 draft

oh, missed that.  thanks, tryboy   TP

[Tr1boy]

Alexander

"First off, I was coming off the bench starting this season," he said. "Then when I was playing, I didn’t live up to my expectations. And when I sat out, it hurt me. So I just need to redeem myself, just come back and get that hunger, get back hungry."

Added Alexander: "I think Boston got a good feel for it today."

The 6-foot-9 forward has an NBA-ready body with a long wingspan (7-foot-4). He might not have been ready for the NBA jump, but the NCAA issues forced the issue. Now teams like the Celtics are trying to figure out where he should be drafted.

"Cliff’s very athletic -- very athletic and strong," Ainge said. "He can shoot a little better than you could see at Kansas."

The Celtics put an emphasis on targeting high-character players who fit their culture.

"Our culture that we’re trying to establish here is important," Ainge said. "The coaches spend time with these guys, maybe more than their families, so you want to make sure they can exist in a team setting and be part of what we’re trying to build. We do the best we can. We have limited interaction with these guys, we have to rely a lot on what we hear from other people about their character, but we do our best to evaluate that, with the recognition that all these young guys have to grow up."

Asked about Alexander's situation, Ainge added: "I think we all know what happened. It’s certainly not the end of the world. I don’t think it reflects everything that Cliff is about."

you like him and i'm not a fan.  Just like you are not fan of Mickey

But imo Mickey is the type of above the rim, shot blocking talent this team desperately needs to add.   Not another "project" type pf