Would the Cavs re-sign both Love and Thompson to max deals?

[zubi.anaba]

*shrugs* I don't see much of an issue with a three-big rotation of Love/Mozgov/Thompson. It worked during the season with the older Mozgov (who's turning 29 this July, for what it matters) receiving the fewest minutes. I honestly don't think Varejao will care that much about not playing often given that he's got a very checkered past of injuries, including his most recent one of a torn Achilles. I think he'll be happy to make $10 million while playing sparingly for a winning team with one of his closest teammates in LeBron as opposed to the previous four years of playing sparingly for terrible Cavs teams.

TP for you, too.

Exactly what I been saying. Love and TT will play the crunch time minutes anyway. TT would never have made as much as he will now if Lebron wasnt around so I doubt he is going out his way to force himself to be a starter and upset chemistry. Def not while Lebron is around. All this TT starting talk came up partially due to his performance this PO and last night cuz Van Gundy talked about Love coming off the Bench. Just pure stupidity really. Ppl now started talking about how it is Love or TT when they played tons of minutes together and compliment each other great

Again media just making a story out of pretty much nothing.

[Endless Paradise]

Yeah, I have to admit: the whole "Love and Thompson won't be able to co-exist" thing seems to be stemming from Jeff Van Gundy, who's made a post-coaching career out of making bombastic assertions. Again, given how much we've heard about Love not being all too pleased with his role, I have to think we'd have heard by now that Love doesn't feel comfortable sharing the front court with Thompson if that were actually the case.

I'll give you a TP, too. TPs all around. 

[Moranis]

I really think you're projecting. How much money Love and Thompson will make is wholly independent of how they'll be used next year. There are a number of teams I could point to with players who have been signed to contracts that will pay them significantly more than players ahead of them on the depth chart. That's not even going to be the case in Cleveland: no matter what Thompson commands, Love will make more money than him, even if he just opts in.

If Love feels threatened by Thompson's presence - and we've heard no kind of reports to that extent, as opposed to the various reports discussing the possibility of Love leaving because he's unhappy with his role - you honestly think that'd change if Thompson got re-signed for, say, $4 million next year? The only thing Love should realistically be concerned about in regards to Thompson is Thompson's production. The dollar amount he's re-signed for is honestly irrelevant.

This is something that I have thought about. At first glance this is true, You have Wallace on the Celtics, Lee and Iggy on the Warriors, Presumably Andy V on the Cavs if he were healthy. Garnett the last few years with the Nets/Twolves. However, those players are all on the back 9 of their careers and over 30. Are there really a lot of players that 24 to 26 making 12-20 million but coming off the bench? I really can't think of any.

It has certainly happened.  Ben Gordon signed a pretty large contract at 26 with Detroit only to basically come off the bench for the Pistons.  Antawn Jamison went from starting in Golden State to coming off the bench in Dallas at the age of 27 on a huge contract. 

More recently, Charlotte gave Lance Stephenson big money only to have be on the bench the majority of his games this year.  Heck Boston's two highest paid players didn't even start for Boston this year, though I think Wallace you give a pass to, but Thomas is in that range, though with a lesser salary.

[oldtype]

I think each situation is a bit different. As celticsclay mentioned the vast majority of these cases in which a bench player is out-earning a starter is for veterans whose production has deteriorated below their current large contract.

As for the likes of Ben Gordon/Lance Stephenson I think the intent when they signed their contracts was to start, it was just that nobody could have predicted that their careers would go off the rails from there.

I honestly can't think of another example where a team with a legitimate prime superstar max-player subsequently gives max-money to a backup that plays that same position.  Couple in the fact that Love is already very insecure about his role in Cleveland + the James/Thompson dynamic and I don't see how you would possibly be unconcerned in Kevin Love's position.

[jambr380]

To answer the question - I think Gilbert definitely would give them both max deals, but Love is already half way out the door. I know as little as everybody else, but he just doesn't look comfortable there. Add in that they are winning without him and I'd say this is the straw that broke the camels back (not necessarily Thompson producing). Unless Love has a considerably smaller ego than the average person, I don't see any way he returns to Cavs.

[LGC88]

Allow me to make a recap.
1. They gave Wiggins, Young, Zeller for a test drive at Love that probably won't be conclusive, other than making Thompson motivated to take his position.
2. They will be a 50 millions tax offender next year.
3. There is a chance Lebron is leaving in summer 2016 if the cavs hasn't win a championship by then.

Lebron 2 Cavs 0

Third danse?

[celticsclay]

I really think you're projecting. How much money Love and Thompson will make is wholly independent of how they'll be used next year. There are a number of teams I could point to with players who have been signed to contracts that will pay them significantly more than players ahead of them on the depth chart. That's not even going to be the case in Cleveland: no matter what Thompson commands, Love will make more money than him, even if he just opts in.

If Love feels threatened by Thompson's presence - and we've heard no kind of reports to that extent, as opposed to the various reports discussing the possibility of Love leaving because he's unhappy with his role - you honestly think that'd change if Thompson got re-signed for, say, $4 million next year? The only thing Love should realistically be concerned about in regards to Thompson is Thompson's production. The dollar amount he's re-signed for is honestly irrelevant.

This is something that I have thought about. At first glance this is true, You have Wallace on the Celtics, Lee and Iggy on the Warriors, Presumably Andy V on the Cavs if he were healthy. Garnett the last few years with the Nets/Twolves. However, those players are all on the back 9 of their careers and over 30. Are there really a lot of players that 24 to 26 making 12-20 million but coming off the bench? I really can't think of any.

It has certainly happened.  Ben Gordon signed a pretty large contract at 26 with Detroit only to basically come off the bench for the Pistons.  Antawn Jamison went from starting in Golden State to coming off the bench in Dallas at the age of 27 on a huge contract. 

More recently, Charlotte gave Lance Stephenson big money only to have be on the bench the majority of his games this year.  Heck Boston's two highest paid players didn't even start for Boston this year, though I think Wallace you give a pass to, but Thomas is in that range, though with a lesser salary.

Ill give you credit for trying to come up with examples of this. However, these examples seem like huge stretches from what we are talking about. We can pretty much throw Stephenson out the window off the bat. He was signed to start. He started the season starting games (played  40 minutes the first game of the year), 33 minutes the first month of the year. He then injured his groin in mid december after being a starter the whole year. Definitely was not signed to be the 7th man that poor play and injuries made him into.

Ben Gordon, I can't say is flat out wrong, because the one story I found didn't say whether they planned to start him or not. However, I would have to believe that coming off a season in which he had averaged 20 points a year for playoff team, he could beat out rodney stuckey for a starting role if he wanted to. Obviously that signing kind of ruined Gordon's career (and the pistons) so it is not really a good example of what anyone should do.

Your best example is Jamison, but that was over 10 years ago, and predictably didn't last very long (one season) before Jamison was off the team and back to starting in Washington. I will say again, I really can't think of players that are making max money and coming off the bench when they are 24-27 like the guys we are discussing. It really limits their chances of achieving certain career goals like making all-star teams, putting up stats and being respected as a player by fans and the national media.

A closer example I have thought of since typing this was Taj Gibson. He signed a 4 year deal averaging 8.2 million before the 2013-2014 season. At the time of that signing, he was 27. Even though he is making about 60% about what we are talking about with these other players, its been a waste for both him and chicago.

Although Gibson denied this, there have been rumors over the last few years he has been frustrated backing up Boozer and then Gasol
http://www.slamonline.com/nba/report-taj-gibson-happy-come-bench-chicago/#APJ4FEpuA7Q4mhYY.97

I just have an incredibly hard time believing that Thompson will be happy coming off the bench for the bulk of his prime if nothing else.

[GreenFaith1819]

I don't get it.

So, LeBron is pining for Thompson, which I can understand. I also understand that LeBron James, this time around, has a LOT of power in the Cavs Organization.

So, would the Cavs, at Lebron's behest, sign Tristin (9 pts, nearly 10 rebs, 1.3 blocks in about 35 min playoffs) to a max deal? Is he worth a max deal, even though he is playing his butt off right now?

Can he get 35 min per game once KLove returns? Is he their "Taj Gibson"? Is Tristan WILLING to be CLE's Taj Gibson? Would CLE seriously max out Tristan to be the 6th man?

Is KLove perhaps WILLING to be CLE's 6th man, if Lebron deems it better for team chemistry?

If KLove bolts CLE, will Lebron be happy with perhaps a better defensive team, but scoring from only Kyrie, him and JR Smith, presumably?

I just don't see how maxing out both will work.

EDIT - zubi.anaba answered most of my questions from his posts. I still don't think it would work, but hey I'd guess CLE could very well be willing to go all in.

[celticsclay]

I don't get it.

So, LeBron is pining for Thompson, which I can understand. I also understand that LeBron James, this time around, has a LOT of power in the Cavs Organization.

So, would the Cavs, at Lebron's behest, sign Tristin (9 pts, nearly 10 rebs, 1.3 blocks in about 35 min playoffs) to a max deal? Is he worth a max deal, even though he is playing his butt off right now?

Can he get 35 min per game once KLove returns? Is he their "Taj Gibson"? Is Tristan WILLING to be CLE's Taj Gibson? Would CLE seriously max out Tristan to be the 6th man?

Is KLove perhaps WILLING to be CLE's 6th man, if Lebron deems it better for team chemistry?

If KLove bolts CLE, will Lebron be happy with perhaps a better defensive team, but scoring from only Kyrie, him and JR Smith, presumably?

I just don't see how maxing out both will work.

EDIT - zubi.anaba answered most of my questions from his posts. I still don't think it would work, but hey I'd guess CLE could very well be willing to go all in.

There is a difference between answering and providing good answers...

[Moranis]

I really think you're projecting. How much money Love and Thompson will make is wholly independent of how they'll be used next year. There are a number of teams I could point to with players who have been signed to contracts that will pay them significantly more than players ahead of them on the depth chart. That's not even going to be the case in Cleveland: no matter what Thompson commands, Love will make more money than him, even if he just opts in.

If Love feels threatened by Thompson's presence - and we've heard no kind of reports to that extent, as opposed to the various reports discussing the possibility of Love leaving because he's unhappy with his role - you honestly think that'd change if Thompson got re-signed for, say, $4 million next year? The only thing Love should realistically be concerned about in regards to Thompson is Thompson's production. The dollar amount he's re-signed for is honestly irrelevant.

This is something that I have thought about. At first glance this is true, You have Wallace on the Celtics, Lee and Iggy on the Warriors, Presumably Andy V on the Cavs if he were healthy. Garnett the last few years with the Nets/Twolves. However, those players are all on the back 9 of their careers and over 30. Are there really a lot of players that 24 to 26 making 12-20 million but coming off the bench? I really can't think of any.

It has certainly happened.  Ben Gordon signed a pretty large contract at 26 with Detroit only to basically come off the bench for the Pistons.  Antawn Jamison went from starting in Golden State to coming off the bench in Dallas at the age of 27 on a huge contract. 

More recently, Charlotte gave Lance Stephenson big money only to have be on the bench the majority of his games this year.  Heck Boston's two highest paid players didn't even start for Boston this year, though I think Wallace you give a pass to, but Thomas is in that range, though with a lesser salary.

Ill give you credit for trying to come up with examples of this. However, these examples seem like huge stretches from what we are talking about. We can pretty much throw Stephenson out the window off the bat. He was signed to start. He started the season starting games (played  40 minutes the first game of the year), 33 minutes the first month of the year. He then injured his groin in mid december after being a starter the whole year. Definitely was not signed to be the 7th man that poor play and injuries made him into.

Ben Gordon, I can't say is flat out wrong, because the one story I found didn't say whether they planned to start him or not. However, I would have to believe that coming off a season in which he had averaged 20 points a year for playoff team, he could beat out rodney stuckey for a starting role if he wanted to. Obviously that signing kind of ruined Gordon's career (and the pistons) so it is not really a good example of what anyone should do.

Your best example is Jamison, but that was over 10 years ago, and predictably didn't last very long (one season) before Jamison was off the team and back to starting in Washington. I will say again, I really can't think of players that are making max money and coming off the bench when they are 24-27 like the guys we are discussing. It really limits their chances of achieving certain career goals like making all-star teams, putting up stats and being respected as a player by fans and the national media.

A closer example I have thought of since typing this was Taj Gibson. He signed a 4 year deal averaging 8.2 million before the 2013-2014 season. At the time of that signing, he was 27. Even though he is making about 60% about what we are talking about with these other players, its been a waste for both him and chicago.

Although Gibson denied this, there have been rumors over the last few years he has been frustrated backing up Boozer and then Gasol
http://www.slamonline.com/nba/report-taj-gibson-happy-come-bench-chicago/#APJ4FEpuA7Q4mhYY.97

I just have an incredibly hard time believing that Thompson will be happy coming off the bench for the bulk of his prime if nothing else.

How about Jamal Crawford.  During the 09/10 season he made 9.3 million and was the Hawks 3rd highest paid player.  He didn't start a game for the Hawks the entire year.  He was 29 years old and was acquired that offseason.  I think if you looked around you would find more examples than you think and that doesn't even account for the countless examples of higher paid players coming off the bench, though that wouldn't be the case in Cleveland.  Love will make more than Thompson without question.