Author Topic: Anything disturbing in those pictures?  (Read 20419 times)

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Re: Anything disturbing in those pictures?
« Reply #90 on: May 27, 2015, 01:59:54 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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It is just impossible for natural human beings to get that big. Westbrook, Howard, Griffin, lebron are all likely using among others. Of course I can't prove they are, but you can't prove they aren't because there is no HGH testing ... I'm not saying they aren't natural athletes, they are just enhanced beyond belief .

Look at the FIFA scandal taking place now. It not a steroid scandal, but sports are a business. No one in the NBA would leak something like that .

Look at what you're saying, though. "I can't prove they are but you can't prove they aren't." No one is saying that they're not using anything -- it's entirely possible that they are. What we're saying is that the proof for certainty isn't there, and to claim otherwise (while disparaging those who disagree, not that you are) isn't particularly becoming.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: Anything disturbing in those pictures?
« Reply #91 on: May 27, 2015, 02:01:51 PM »

Offline Endless Paradise

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"It is just impossible for natural human beings to get that big." In a league that's employed people as tall as 7'7" while being rail-thin and people who've weighed over 300 pounds of more fat than muscle.

Right.

Re: Anything disturbing in those pictures?
« Reply #92 on: May 27, 2015, 02:18:33 PM »

Offline rondohondo

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"It is just impossible for natural human beings to get that big." In a league that's employed people as tall as 7'7" while being rail-thin and people who've weighed over 300 pounds of more fat than muscle.

Right.

what does hieght and fat have to do with anything ? I'm talking about insane muscle and athletic burst/explosiveness. That is such a silly argument .

Re: Anything disturbing in those pictures?
« Reply #93 on: May 27, 2015, 02:22:16 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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I think Lebron is definately a roider. It's not even really a question to me.  Tim Duncan no.  jared sullinger.  No.  Russell Westbrook. Yes.  Dwight Howard.  Probably. Kelly Olynyk.  No.  I don't think that's my celtics bias either.  I don't think the celtics get players who use steroids too much if at all.  ROndo was though i think maybe.  Avery Bradley. Marcus Smart.  None of those guys are on roids.  Perkins was just a naturally big dude.   I can just tell how certain players look.   LEbrons face and jawline is messed up.  So is westbrook.  Both players the way they play as well it's like they are juicing.

Naive point of view. 

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/51305/gaps-in-nba-drug-testing

A handful of NBA players have been caught and suspended for performance-enhancing drugs. Most served five- or 10-game suspensions:

    2000: Don MacLean, for steroids



    2001: Matt Geiger, for steroids



    2002: Soumaila Samake, for the anabolic steroid nandrolone



    2007: Lindsey Hunter, for the stimulant phhentermine



    2008: Darius Miles, for the stimulant  phhentermine



    2009: Rashard Lewis, for the steroid DHEA



    2011: O.J. Mayo, for the steroid DHEA



Edit... article was pre-hedo...

    2013: Hedo Turkoglu, for steroids



...

Did you confidently predict those guys were roiders?   Nah.   Can you confidently predict someone like Jae Crowder, Brandon Bass, Avery Bradley or Marcus Smart is clean?  Of course not.   My guess is steroids in the NBA are mostly used for recovery.  Did you see how up-and-down KG was throughout the 2010 playoffs?  Most just figured he was taking cortisone shots for the injuries.  You confident he didn't roid on his way back from injury in 09?  When Kobe goes to Germany, are you confident he's not taking some sketchy drugs to expedite his recovery?   Should we really even care?

I can't confidently claim that any Celtic is free of steroids.   I also can't confidently predict any player is taking them.  Who knows.  I do know that LeBron's weight fluctuation has a pretty clear explanation... he dieted for 67 days and then gained the weight back post-diet.   Aside from the above-mentioned players who were suspended, the only player I can predict with 95% confidence actually took steroids... was Buff Johnson in 1996:



... But that's because anabolic steroids are (were?) a crucial part of treatment for HIV as it prevents wasting and weight loss... especially in the mid 90s when the mix of drugs hadn't been perfected yet.   There's very little chance mid-90s Magic wasn't on Steroids during his brief return to the NBA.   It's a hot take that you'll only hear from LarBrd33... because nobody gives a crap.  You're welcome. 

« Last Edit: May 27, 2015, 02:37:48 PM by LarBrd33 »

Re: Anything disturbing in those pictures?
« Reply #94 on: May 27, 2015, 02:23:30 PM »

Offline Endless Paradise

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"This guy can have extreme physical proportions through natural means, but not these other guys, just because I say so and you can't prove otherwise."

Re: Anything disturbing in those pictures?
« Reply #95 on: May 27, 2015, 02:25:37 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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Wot, no Hedo picture?
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: Anything disturbing in those pictures?
« Reply #96 on: May 27, 2015, 02:26:57 PM »

Offline Endless Paradise

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I was definitely about to question the lack of Hedo, myself. Fantastic post, though, LarBrd33.

Re: Anything disturbing in those pictures?
« Reply #97 on: May 27, 2015, 02:30:44 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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I was definitely about to question the lack of Hedo, myself. Fantastic post, though, LarBrd33.
Article was pre-hedo.  I added Hedo.

Note:  After consuming steroids, all of those players were immediately transformed into superhuman Top 5 basketball gods who averaged 27.6 points, 10.4 rebounds, 8.3 assists, 1.3 blocks, 1.8 steals on their way to a 6th Finals appearance.   Oh wait... that didn't happen?  Hmmm

Re: Anything disturbing in those pictures?
« Reply #98 on: May 27, 2015, 02:41:28 PM »

Offline Endless Paradise

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Also, add Nick Calathes to that list, who was suspended for tamoxifen (which he was likely taking to combat his noticeable premature balding).

Re: Anything disturbing in those pictures?
« Reply #99 on: May 27, 2015, 03:02:02 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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I think Lebron is definately a roider. It's not even really a question to me.  Tim Duncan no.  jared sullinger.  No.  Russell Westbrook. Yes.  Dwight Howard.  Probably. Kelly Olynyk.  No.  I don't think that's my celtics bias either.  I don't think the celtics get players who use steroids too much if at all.  ROndo was though i think maybe.  Avery Bradley. Marcus Smart.  None of those guys are on roids.  Perkins was just a naturally big dude.   I can just tell how certain players look.   LEbrons face and jawline is messed up.  So is westbrook.  Both players the way they play as well it's like they are juicing.

Naive point of view. 

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/51305/gaps-in-nba-drug-testing

A handful of NBA players have been caught and suspended for performance-enhancing drugs. Most served five- or 10-game suspensions:

    2000: Don MacLean, for steroids



    2001: Matt Geiger, for steroids



    2002: Soumaila Samake, for the anabolic steroid nandrolone



    2007: Lindsey Hunter, for the stimulant phhentermine



    2008: Darius Miles, for the stimulant  phhentermine



    2009: Rashard Lewis, for the steroid DHEA



    2011: O.J. Mayo, for the steroid DHEA



Edit... article was pre-hedo...

    2013: Hedo Turkoglu, for steroids



...

Did you confidently predict those guys were roiders?   Nah.   Can you confidently predict someone like Jae Crowder, Brandon Bass, Avery Bradley or Marcus Smart is clean?  Of course not.   My guess is steroids in the NBA are mostly used for recovery.  Did you see how up-and-down KG was throughout the 2010 playoffs?  Most just figured he was taking cortisone shots for the injuries.  You confident he didn't roid on his way back from injury in 09?  When Kobe goes to Germany, are you confident he's not taking some sketchy drugs to expedite his recovery?   Should we really even care?

I can't confidently claim that any Celtic is free of steroids.   I also can't confidently predict any player is taking them.  Who knows.  I do know that LeBron's weight fluctuation has a pretty clear explanation... he dieted for 67 days and then gained the weight back post-diet.   Aside from the above-mentioned players who were suspended, the only player I can predict with 95% confidence actually took steroids... was Buff Johnson in 1996:



... But that's because anabolic steroids are (were?) a crucial part of treatment for HIV as it prevents wasting and weight loss... especially in the mid 90s when the mix of drugs hadn't been perfected yet.   There's very little chance mid-90s Magic wasn't on Steroids during his brief return to the NBA.   It's a hot take that you'll only hear from LarBrd33... because nobody gives a crap.  You're welcome.

Lebron aside I have often questioned the legitimacy of the NBA's steroid/performance enhancing testing/penalty system. It raises my eyebrows when the list of players that have gotten caught range from 15th man to above average starter. You could make a case that Lewis was close to all-star form, but the rest of the guys, at least at the point in their career they were caught (like Hedo) were average to below average NBA players. In the beginning of the MLB testing it seemed like this was the case too, with primarily minor league players and bit players getting caught. I now believe the MLB is serious when you have guys like Ryan Braun and Manny repeatedly caught.

If we were to talk specifically about Lebron there is some weird stuff with the cramping and jaw tumor that we don't really see with other players. He also does have bigger body transformations than a lot of other players. It is also possible he just outworks everyone on top of his genetic gifts.  We probably will never know one way or the other.

Re: Anything disturbing in those pictures?
« Reply #100 on: May 27, 2015, 05:35:26 PM »

Offline mmmmm

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Like Jordan, Kobe couldn't get it done on his own.     Without either Shaq or Pau, Kobe lead the Lakers to 34 wins.   Shaq made the Finals with Orlando and won a title in Miami.   Pau lead a 50 win Memphis team.  But Kobe with a weak supporting cast wins 34.   

LeBron, though... Stick LeBron with d-league talent and it probably wins 45 games.   He won 66 games with Mo WIlliams as his 2nd best player...

Look - Lebron is a great player.  Easily one of the greatest players in the history of the NBA.  But you don't need to resort to extreme exaggeration to sell how good he has been.

Like Jordan and Kobe, Lebron ALSO has not yet won a title without at least one other star on the roster.   If Irving suddenly was unable to play in this coming series and CLE still managed to win, then you might finally say that Lebron did indeed do it all on his own.   But even without Love, Cleveland's lineup is a pretty strong supporting cast.  They are solid at all positions.

Winning those 66 games … If Mo Williams was the 2nd best player on the team, then a young, healthy Anderson Varajao was a very, very close 3rd.  He actually edged Mo in WS/48 rate, .166 to .165.  And that was easily Delonte' West's own personal best season of his entire career.  ALL 4 of those players stayed healthy and played over 2100 minutes.   And Big Z also had one of his best seasons.   In other words, while Lebron's supporting cast that season may not have had any stars, it had a lot of really good players who stayed healthy and each had one of the best seasons of their careers.   It was a million miles from being comparable to a bunch of d-leaguers.


NBA Officiating - Corrupt?  Incompetent?  Which is worse?  Does it matter?  It sucks.

Re: Anything disturbing in those pictures?
« Reply #101 on: May 27, 2015, 06:12:04 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Like Jordan, Kobe couldn't get it done on his own.     Without either Shaq or Pau, Kobe lead the Lakers to 34 wins.   Shaq made the Finals with Orlando and won a title in Miami.   Pau lead a 50 win Memphis team.  But Kobe with a weak supporting cast wins 34.   

LeBron, though... Stick LeBron with d-league talent and it probably wins 45 games.   He won 66 games with Mo WIlliams as his 2nd best player...

Look - Lebron is a great player.  Easily one of the greatest players in the history of the NBA.  But you don't need to resort to extreme exaggeration to sell how good he has been.

Like Jordan and Kobe, Lebron ALSO has not yet won a title without at least one other star on the roster.   If Irving suddenly was unable to play in this coming series and CLE still managed to win, then you might finally say that Lebron did indeed do it all on his own.   But even without Love, Cleveland's lineup is a pretty strong supporting cast.  They are solid at all positions.

Winning those 66 games … If Mo Williams was the 2nd best player on the team, then a young, healthy Anderson Varajao was a very, very close 3rd.  He actually edged Mo in WS/48 rate, .166 to .165.  And that was easily Delonte' West's own personal best season of his entire career.  ALL 4 of those players stayed healthy and played over 2100 minutes.   And Big Z also had one of his best seasons.   In other words, while Lebron's supporting cast that season may not have had any stars, it had a lot of really good players who stayed healthy and each had one of the best seasons of their careers.   It was a million miles from being comparable to a bunch of d-leaguers.
Yeah that team probably wins 19-33 games without LeBron.  With him:  66

Re: Anything disturbing in those pictures?
« Reply #102 on: May 27, 2015, 06:26:31 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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My rankings (starting with early '80s since anything earlier was before my time):

1.  Jordan
2.  Johnson
3.  Bird
4.  James
5.  Olajuwon
6.  O'Neal
7.  Erving
8.  Duncan
9.  Garnett
10.  Bryant


DKC Seventy-Sixers:

PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
SF:  Giannis/J. Lamb/M. Kuzminskas
PF:  E. Ilyasova/J. Jerebko/R. Christmas
C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson