Author Topic: Anything disturbing in those pictures?  (Read 20444 times)

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Re: Anything disturbing in those pictures?
« Reply #30 on: May 25, 2015, 10:22:42 PM »

Offline Beat LA

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Yeah I get that lots of fans are jealous and like to attack the guy, because he's arguably the best player ever. There's always been a jealous instinct to tear him down.

I wouldn't bet my own money on LeBron being fully clean of enhancement drugs, but if he's been using them it probably started all the way back in high school. Dude was always pretty ripped even for a teenager. 

In his defense, it was widely reported that he went on an exteme 67 day diet in the offseason:

Quote
James told reporters at his Nike sneaker event in Oregon that he cut out everything except meat, fish, fruit, and vegetables for 67 days. He did it to "test his mental fortitude," The Oregonian reports.

He told SI:

"I had no sugars, no dairy, I had no carbs. All I ate was meat, fish, veggies and fruit. That's it. For 67 straight days."

He told the Oregonian that he had "lost a ton of weight" ? so much weight that he's now trying to put back on a few pounds.

It doesn't take much time to put back on the weight if you add carbs back into the mix... And carbs should absolutey be in the mix if you are an athlete. You need them for energy.

Fwiw, I don't care if Lebron has taken enhancement drugs. I imagine most of the old timers like KG and Kobe probably had drugs helping them recover from injuries. And it's not like Brandon bass can start juicing and put up 38 points, 18 rebounds and 13 assists in ECF game.   Lebron is incredible.  Try to appreciate it while it lasts.  We are watching one of the greatest players to ever live.

WHAT!? :o No way.  Absolutely no way.  The only reason why you'd ever put the word 'arguably' next to lebron is if you were saying that he's 'arguably' the most protected player of all time, imo.  I honestly don't know who got more preferential treatment - Kareem, Magic, Jordan, Lebron, Duncan, Shaq, or Dirk, and those are the first guys who come to mind, because you could probably add Dr. J to that list, as well, iirc.

To me, lebron is the biggest fraud in NBA history.  Sure, he gets all the awards and accolades, but do you realize that if Pop hadn't inexplicably choked by taking Duncan out at the end of game 6 in the 2013 finals, Lebron would not only have had a career 1-3 record in the finals to that point, but that he also would have lost all 3 of those series on his home court?  Ouch.

Sure, maybe he did the Gwyneth Paltrow-type cleanse over the summer, lol ;D, but his 'miraculous' bulking up during a two week hiatus is more than a little suspicious to me, to say the least, and for the record, it does matter if he's been using steroids for even any part of his career.  It's one thing to do what Andy Pettite did and use hgh in an attempt to recover more quickly from an injury (I still don't like it, but it's not the same thing as juicing to gain a competitive edge, imo), but it's quite another to act like Mark McGwire, Barry Bonds, or Sosa.

What I cannot wait to see is what happens to Lebron's game when his athleticism leaves him, because then he won't have the ability to dunk over people all the time.  I want to see him be able to score via skill.  I don't know if you've noticed, but the dude's been the league for over a decade now, and he still has no post game, a reliable jumper, either from 3 or midrange (and he's been atrocious from the perimeter so far in the postseason), or the inclination to rebound, which he clearly just doesn't have, in addition to footwork like Pierce's.  The last time he rebounded like he did in game 3 was in game 6 against us, iirc.  IN 2012 :o. Were his 8 offensive rebounds a career high, lol ;D, and how did he ever get them, since he's never shown that he has the skill of positioning, etc., which allows you to get all of those rebounds in the first place.

He's also never changed his style of play.  Have you ever seen him be able to play off the ball in any way, because I haven't, lol ;D. To me, the great ones add something to their games every year, no matter how long they've been in the league, and Lebron just has never done that.  Okay, I guess you could say that his jumper has somewhat improved, but his free throw shooting hasn't, and he only tried posting up during what seemed like a two-week fad in Miami a couple of years ago, lol ;D. At 20 years old, Giannis has a substantially better post game than Lebron has.  I know that I recently used this clip, but check out his post move against Tony Snell starting at the 1:13 mark, after he grabbed an offensive rebound (what a concept ::)) -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZ-AJ6YDlvo

There's more skill in that one post move than I've EVER seen from Lebron whenever he's actually decided to play inside over the past 11 years, ahaha ;D.

If he ever came here, I'd throw up, to say the least, and wouldn't watch another game until he left, for all of the reasons which csfansince60s listed, and TP to him for that.  In fact, watching these pathetic attempts by Chicago and Atlanta against him makes me appreciate our Pierce, KG, and Rondo teams even more, quite honestly.   

Re: Anything disturbing in those pictures?
« Reply #31 on: May 26, 2015, 05:45:05 AM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Yeah I get that lots of fans are jealous and like to attack the guy, because he's arguably the best player ever. There's always been a jealous instinct to tear him down.

I wouldn't bet my own money on LeBron being fully clean of enhancement drugs, but if he's been using them it probably started all the way back in high school. Dude was always pretty ripped even for a teenager. 

In his defense, it was widely reported that he went on an exteme 67 day diet in the offseason:

Quote
James told reporters at his Nike sneaker event in Oregon that he cut out everything except meat, fish, fruit, and vegetables for 67 days. He did it to "test his mental fortitude," The Oregonian reports.

He told SI:

"I had no sugars, no dairy, I had no carbs. All I ate was meat, fish, veggies and fruit. That's it. For 67 straight days."

He told the Oregonian that he had "lost a ton of weight" ? so much weight that he's now trying to put back on a few pounds.

It doesn't take much time to put back on the weight if you add carbs back into the mix... And carbs should absolutey be in the mix if you are an athlete. You need them for energy.

Fwiw, I don't care if Lebron has taken enhancement drugs. I imagine most of the old timers like KG and Kobe probably had drugs helping them recover from injuries. And it's not like Brandon bass can start juicing and put up 38 points, 18 rebounds and 13 assists in ECF game.   Lebron is incredible.  Try to appreciate it while it lasts.  We are watching one of the greatest players to ever live.

WHAT!? :o No way.  Absolutely no way.  The only reason why you'd ever put the word 'arguably' next to lebron is if you were saying that he's 'arguably' the most protected player of all time, imo.  I honestly don't know who got more preferential treatment - Kareem, Magic, Jordan, Lebron, Duncan, Shaq, or Dirk, and those are the first guys who come to mind, because you could probably add Dr. J to that list, as well, iirc.

To me, lebron is the biggest fraud in NBA history.  Sure, he gets all the awards and accolades, but do you realize that if Pop hadn't inexplicably choked by taking Duncan out at the end of game 6 in the 2013 finals, Lebron would not only have had a career 1-3 record in the finals to that point, but that he also would have lost all 3 of those series on his home court?  Ouch.

Sure, maybe he did the Gwyneth Paltrow-type cleanse over the summer, lol ;D, but his 'miraculous' bulking up during a two week hiatus is more than a little suspicious to me, to say the least, and for the record, it does matter if he's been using steroids for even any part of his career.  It's one thing to do what Andy Pettite did and use hgh in an attempt to recover more quickly from an injury (I still don't like it, but it's not the same thing as juicing to gain a competitive edge, imo), but it's quite another to act like Mark McGwire, Barry Bonds, or Sosa.

What I cannot wait to see is what happens to Lebron's game when his athleticism leaves him, because then he won't have the ability to dunk over people all the time.  I want to see him be able to score via skill.  I don't know if you've noticed, but the dude's been the league for over a decade now, and he still has no post game, a reliable jumper, either from 3 or midrange (and he's been atrocious from the perimeter so far in the postseason), or the inclination to rebound, which he clearly just doesn't have, in addition to footwork like Pierce's.  The last time he rebounded like he did in game 3 was in game 6 against us, iirc.  IN 2012 :o. Were his 8 offensive rebounds a career high, lol ;D, and how did he ever get them, since he's never shown that he has the skill of positioning, etc., which allows you to get all of those rebounds in the first place.

He's also never changed his style of play.  Have you ever seen him be able to play off the ball in any way, because I haven't, lol ;D. To me, the great ones add something to their games every year, no matter how long they've been in the league, and Lebron just has never done that.  Okay, I guess you could say that his jumper has somewhat improved, but his free throw shooting hasn't, and he only tried posting up during what seemed like a two-week fad in Miami a couple of years ago, lol ;D. At 20 years old, Giannis has a substantially better post game than Lebron has.  I know that I recently used this clip, but check out his post move against Tony Snell starting at the 1:13 mark, after he grabbed an offensive rebound (what a concept ::)) -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZ-AJ6YDlvo

There's more skill in that one post move than I've EVER seen from Lebron whenever he's actually decided to play inside over the past 11 years, ahaha ;D.

If he ever came here, I'd throw up, to say the least, and wouldn't watch another game until he left, for all of the reasons which csfansince60s listed, and TP to him for that.  In fact, watching these pathetic attempts by Chicago and Atlanta against him makes me appreciate our Pierce, KG, and Rondo teams even more, quite honestly.

The h8rade is strong here. 

LeBron's impact can't be understated.

In 2002, the Cavs won 17 games.   The next year they win 35 games with 18 year old LeBron.  It took the teenager a couple years, but soon he was leading a ragtag group to 50-66 wins and a Finals appearance.

They won 61 games in 2009.   LeBron leaves and they win 19.  Lol

The Cavs toil away as a bottomfeeder for the next 3 years.  21, 24 and 33 wins. 

Re-Enter King James:   53 wins and a Finals appearance.  They finished the season 34-9.  That's a 64 win pace.   

Heat were a 47 win team in 2009.  Enter LeBron, they win 58 games and make the Finals 4 straight years (capping out with 66 wins).   LeBron bails... they win 37 and miss the playoffs.

LeBron James literally is the difference between a bottomfeeder lotto team and a contender.  Stick him on the worst team in the league and there is evidence they will make the playoffs.   He's unbelievable.  11 time all-star, 4 time MVP, 2 time champion.  He's 30 years old.  Let's see how the rest of his career goes.

It's hard to argue against Jordan as the greatest of all time, but it's at least mildly interesting looking at his career with the skepticism of modern internet sports culture.   Unlikely LeBron, Jordan entered the league more-or-less fully formed as a 21 year old superstar with 3 years of UNC basketball under his belt.   They win 27 games in 83 without him.  38 Games in 84 with him as a rookie.  Jordan's team actually finished below .500 his first 3 seasons.  Kinda interesting.  They didn't finish above .500 until Scottie Pippen's first season.   Also really interesting that in 1992-93 they won the championship with 57 wins.   Jordan leaves... they win 55 games without him.  I know it's unfair to hold the Wizards era against Jordan, but it's kinda interesting that Jordan never finished above .500 without Pippen.   Pippen had plenty of success without Jordan (on the Bulls, Rockets and Blazers).   Jordan never had success without Pippen. 

Jordan was amazing, though.  So were Kareem, Magic, etc.  You're watching a special basketball player right now, though.  If petty fans weren't seething with jealously they'd maybe be able to step back and enjoy this for what it is... you're witnessing someone who is easily one of the 5 greatest players to ever play the game.   The Kobe vs Jordan thing never had legs.   LeBron vs Jordan is legit, though.  He's 30 years old right now.  Let's see how the rest of his career goes. 

I will say, if we're comparing 30 year old LeBron (switched teams, gets a entirely different supporting cast and still makes his 5th straight Finals appearance... 4 MVP's and 9 All-NBA appearances under his belt) vs 30 year old Michael Jordan (Playing baseball with 3 titles, 3 MVP's and 7 All-NBA appearances under his belt), Bron may to have him beat.   Jordan-less Bulls win 55 without him.   LeBron-less Heat win 37.   So if we're playing the resume game, King James seems to have a head start.  If you look at their career stats, they are both otherworldly. Jordan - 30.1 points, 6.2 rebounds, 5.3 assists, 2.3 steals, 50%/33%/84%   LeBron - 27.3 points, 7.1 rebounds, 6.9 assists, 1.7 steals, 50%/34%/75%  LeBron is bigger, stronger, probably more athletic, a better passer, rebounder and long-distance shooter.  Jordan was probably a better defender, but LeBron is no slouch (5x Defensive first team) and one could argue that LeBron makes more of an impact defensively due to his size.     Just sayin, we have evidence to support that sticking LeBron on any team will launch it to contender status.  There isn't any evidence to support Jordan having the same level of impact since all of his success came with Pippen, and Pippen proved to be successful without him. 

I don't think this will happen, but if LeBron miraculously knocks off a loaded Warriors team... better buy a few more gallons of hatorade, because this might get cray. 


« Last Edit: May 26, 2015, 05:51:32 AM by LarBrd33 »

Re: Anything disturbing in those pictures?
« Reply #32 on: May 26, 2015, 07:36:43 AM »

Offline GC003332

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Quote from: Beat LA link=topic=78292.msg1889863#msg1889863 In date=1432606962
Yeah I get that lots of fans are jealous and like to attack the guy, because he's arguably the best player ever. There's always been a jealous instinct to tear him down.

I wouldn't bet my own money on LeBron being fully clean of enhancement drugs, but if he's been using them it probably started all the way back in high school. Dude was always pretty ripped even for a teenager. 

In his defense, it was widely reported that he went on an exteme 67 day diet in the offseason:

Quote
James told reporters at his Nike sneaker event in Oregon that he cut out everything except meat, fish, fruit, and vegetables for 67 days. He did it to "test his mental fortitude," The Oregonian reports.

He told SI:

"I had no sugars, no dairy, I had no carbs. All I ate was meat, fish, veggies and fruit. That's it. For 67 straight days."

He told the Oregonian that he had "lost a ton of weight" ? so much weight that he's now trying to put back on a few pounds.

It doesn't take much time to put back on the weight if you add carbs back into the mix... And carbs should absolutey be in the mix if you are an athlete. You need them for energy.

Fwiw, I don't care if Lebron has taken enhancement drugs. I imagine most of the old timers like KG and Kobe probably had drugs helping them recover from injuries. And it's not like Brandon bass can start juicing and put up 38 points, 18 rebounds and 13 assists in ECF game.   Lebron is incredible.  Try to appreciate it while it lasts.  We are watching one of the greatest players to ever live.

WHAT!? :o No way.  Absolutely no way.  The only reason why you'd ever put the word 'arguably' next to lebron is if you were saying that he's 'arguably' the most protected player of all time, imo.  I honestly don't know who got more preferential treatment - Kareem, Magic, Jordan, Lebron, Duncan, Shaq, or Dirk, and those are the first guys who come to mind, because you could probably add Dr. J to that list, as well, iirc.

To me, lebron is the biggest fraud in NBA history.  Sure, he gets all the awards and accolades, but do you realize that if Pop hadn't inexplicably choked by taking Duncan out at the end of game 6 in the 2013 finals, Lebron would not only have had a career 1-3 record in the finals to that point, but that he also would have lost all 3 of those series on his home court?  Ouch.

Sure, maybe he did the Gwyneth Paltrow-type cleanse over the summer, lol ;D, but his 'miraculous' bulking up during a two week hiatus is more than a little suspicious to me, to say the least, and for the record, it does matter if he's been using steroids for even any part of his career.  It's one thing to do what Andy Pettite did and use hgh in an attempt to recover more quickly from an injury (I still don't like it, but it's not the same thing as juicing to gain a competitive edge, imo), but it's quite another to act like Mark McGwire, Barry Bonds, or Sosa.

What I cannot wait to see is what happens to Lebron's game when his athleticism leaves him, because then he won't have the ability to dunk over people all the time.  I want to see him be able to score via skill.  I don't know if you've noticed, but the dude's been the league for over a decade now, and he still has no post game, a reliable jumper, either from 3 or midrange (and he's been atrocious from the perimeter so far in the postseason), or the inclination to rebound, which he clearly just doesn't have, in addition to footwork like Pierce's.  The last time he rebounded like he did in game 3 was in game 6 against us, iirc.  IN 2012 :o. Were his 8 offensive rebounds a career high, lol ;D, and how did he ever get them, since he's never shown that he has the skill of positioning, etc., which allows you to get all of those rebounds in the first place.

He's also never changed his style of play.  Have you ever seen him be able to play off the ball in any way, because I haven't, lol ;D. To me, the great ones add something to their games every year, no matter how long they've been in the league, and Lebron just has never done that.  Okay, I guess you could say that his jumper has somewhat improved, but his free throw shooting hasn't, and he only tried posting up during what seemed like a two-week fad in Miami a couple of years ago, lol ;D. At 20 years old, Giannis has a substantially better post game than Lebron has.  I know that I recently used this clip, but check out his post move against Tony Snell starting at the 1:13 mark, after he grabbed an offensive rebound (what a concept ::)) -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZ-AJ6YDlvo

There's more skill in that one post move than I've EVER seen from Lebron whenever he's actually decided to play inside over the past 11 years, ahaha ;D.

If he ever came here, I'd throw up, to say the least, and wouldn't watch another game until he left, for all of the reasons which csfansince60s listed, and TP to him for that.  In fact, watching these pathetic attempts by Chicago and Atlanta against him makes me appreciate our Pierce, KG, and Rondo teams even more, quite honestly.

The h8rade is strong here. 

LeBron's impact can't be understated.

In 2002, the Cavs won 17 games.   The next year they win 35 games with 18 year old LeBron.  It took the teenager a couple years, but soon he was leading a ragtag group to 50-66 wins and a Finals appearance.

They won 61 games in 2009.   LeBron leaves and they win 19.  Lol

The Cavs toil away as a bottomfeeder for the next 3 years.  21, 24 and 33 wins. 

Re-Enter King James:   53 wins and a Finals appearance.  They finished the season 34-9.  That's a 64 win pace.   

Heat were a 47 win team in 2009.  Enter LeBron, they win 58 games and make the Finals 4 straight years (capping out with 66 wins).   LeBron bails... they win 37 and miss the playoffs.

LeBron James literally is the difference between a bottomfeeder lotto team and a contender.  Stick him on the worst team in the league and there is evidence they will make the playoffs.   He's unbelievable.  11 time all-star, 4 time MVP, 2 time champion.  He's 30 years old.  Let's see how the rest of his career goes.

It's hard to argue against Jordan as the greatest of all time, but it's at least mildly interesting looking at his career with the skepticism of modern internet sports culture.   Unlikely LeBron, Jordan entered the league more-or-less fully formed as a 21 year old superstar with 3 years of UNC basketball under his belt.   They win 27 games in 83 without him.  38 Games in 84 with him as a rookie.  Jordan's team actually finished below .500 his first 3 seasons.  Kinda interesting.  They didn't finish above .500 until Scottie Pippen's first season.   Also really interesting that in 1992-93 they won the championship with 57 wins.   Jordan leaves... they win 55 games without him.  I know it's unfair to hold the Wizards era against Jordan, but it's kinda interesting that Jordan never finished above .500 without Pippen.   Pippen had plenty of success without Jordan (on the Bulls, Rockets and Blazers).   Jordan never had success without Pippen. 

Jordan was amazing, though.  So were Kareem, Magic, etc.  You're watching a special basketball player right now, though.  If petty fans weren't seething with jealously they'd maybe be able to step back and enjoy this for what it is... you're witnessing someone who is easily one of the 5 greatest players to ever play the game.   The Kobe vs Jordan thing never had legs.   LeBron vs Jordan is legit, though.  He's 30 years old right now.  Let's see how the rest of his career goes. 

I will say, if we're comparing 30 year old LeBron (switched teams, gets a entirely different supporting cast and still makes his 5th straight Finals appearance... 4 MVP's and 9 All-NBA appearances under his belt) vs 30 year old Michael Jordan (Playing baseball with 3 titles, 3 MVP's and 7 All-NBA appearances under his belt), Bron may to have him beat.   Jordan-less Bulls win 55 without him.   LeBron-less Heat win 37.   So if we're playing the resume game, King James seems to have a head start.  If you look at their career stats, they are both otherworldly. Jordan - 30.1 points, 6.2 rebounds, 5.3 assists, 2.3 steals, 50%/33%/84%   LeBron - 27.3 points, 7.1 rebounds, 6.9 assists, 1.7 steals, 50%/34%/75%  LeBron is bigger, stronger, probably more athletic, a better passer, rebounder and long-distance shooter.  Jordan was probably a better defender, but LeBron is no slouch (5x Defensive first team) and one could argue that LeBron makes more of an impact defensively due to his size.     Just sayin, we have evidence to support that sticking LeBron on any team will launch it to contender status.  There isn't any evidence to support Jordan having the same level of impact since all of his success came with Pippen, and Pippen proved to be successful without him. 

I don't think this will happen, but if LeBron miraculously knocks off a loaded Warriors team... better buy a few more gallons of hatorade, because this might get cray.

TP

Most of Jordan's second season was wrecked by his injury, so you can't really hold that against his team record.
When Jordan first entered the league you had some pretty strong teams in the East, Boston, Philly,(from memory I believe Barkley didn't lose to Jordan in something like his first 8 or 9 games or so)Milwaukee,Detroit was on the rise,The Fratello Hawks were pretty solid.It is well documented that some of Jordan team mates were more interested in the white stuff than winning games, so tough to overcome that.
Toni Kukoc finally came over to the league Jordan's first season off.He contributed to that Bulls team.
The notion that Jordan didn't have any success without Pippen is simply not true, yes he didn't win any of his 6 titles without him.The guy won the MVP in 88 averaging 35 a game , the Bulls as a team won 50 games, Pippen was 7th on the team in minutes played, averaged under 8 a game. I wouldn't exactly call that a major contribution.
The Jump of the Heat's record his first season was helped just a little by the addition of Bosh as well.
The decline this season was helped by the Heat's multiple injuries as well.
Granted they would still have has a drop off without LeBron but it wouldn't have been as steep.
I would argue that it wasn't all LeBron doing this season, Kyrie was an all star, their mid season trades helped get them back on track.
There are so many teams in the East that are either rebuilding or are just turning the corner into relevance, it is not like there are many perennial tough squads to jump over.
I personally enjoy watching him go to work, just wish he wouldn't get the benefit of those star calls as much as he does.
From memory he has hit a couple of game winners in Oakland, so he is going to feel real comfortable out there.I look for him to drop 40 in either game 1 or 2 and for the Cavs to split the first 2 there, I think that it is going to go 6 or 7 games.
That hate could get real ugly.
The usage rates of some of these modern guys blows guys out of the water from 20-30 years ago, so I don't put a look of credence in some of these guys numbers compared to back then.Imagine the numbers Bird would have put up if his usage approached some of these ridiculous levels.
I actually saw Jordan play a couple of games in the old Chicago Staduim, he dropped 50 on the Nuggets and only had one dunk from memory in one of them.


« Last Edit: May 26, 2015, 08:28:41 AM by GC003332 »

Re: Anything disturbing in those pictures?
« Reply #33 on: May 26, 2015, 07:40:49 AM »

Offline hwangjini_1

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Re: Anything disturbing in those pictures?
« Reply #34 on: May 26, 2015, 08:18:37 AM »

Online Neurotic Guy

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Note the threads with the Sully pictures over the last year.  People draw a variety of conclusions based on the same photos.  Some are certain he's fit; others are sure he's fat.   It's the angle; it's the clothing; it's pre or post workout (even I look a little different after 20 push-ups)....   

And wow -- the pictures of Lebron's forehead through the years was fascinating (other thread).  When he lifts his eyes, he has wrinkles and ridges, and when he doesn't, the skin on his forehead is smooth.  Fascinating.  Enough to draw all sorts of firm conclusions.

And the dislike for Lebron as a person -- to the point where loyal C's fans would hand in their Celtic's fan card -- really?   You know this man?  He's a worse person than Larry Bird, The Chief, Dennis Johnson, Antoine Walker...?  How the heck do you know?  Why, because he gets calls? Because he manipulated the system to form a championship team?  Hmmm... sounds like a good idea -- wish someone would do that for the C's.

Lebron is a great basketball player.   I don't know him as a person.  You don't either.  If he played for the C's next year by some miracle -- I'd be ecstatic.   

Re: Anything disturbing in those pictures?
« Reply #35 on: May 26, 2015, 08:25:13 AM »

Offline GC003332

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Re: Anything disturbing in those pictures?
« Reply #36 on: May 26, 2015, 08:50:45 AM »

Offline D.o.s.

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Note the threads with the Sully pictures over the last year.  People draw a variety of conclusions based on the same photos.  Some are certain he's fit; others are sure he's fat.   It's the angle; it's the clothing; it's pre or post workout (even I look a little different after 20 push-ups)....   

And wow -- the pictures of Lebron's forehead through the years was fascinating (other thread).  When he lifts his eyes, he has wrinkles and ridges, and when he doesn't, the skin on his forehead is smooth.  Fascinating.  Enough to draw all sorts of firm conclusions.

And the dislike for Lebron as a person -- to the point where loyal C's fans would hand in their Celtic's fan card -- really?   You know this man?  He's a worse person than Larry Bird, The Chief, Dennis Johnson, Antoine Walker...?  How the heck do you know?  Why, because he gets calls? Because he manipulated the system to form a championship team?  Hmmm... sounds like a good idea -- wish someone would do that for the C's.

Lebron is a great basketball player.   I don't know him as a person.  You don't either.  If he played for the C's next year by some miracle -- I'd be ecstatic.   

MVP post.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: Anything disturbing in those pictures?
« Reply #37 on: May 26, 2015, 10:21:22 AM »

Offline Endless Paradise

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Note the threads with the Sully pictures over the last year.  People draw a variety of conclusions based on the same photos.  Some are certain he's fit; others are sure he's fat.   It's the angle; it's the clothing; it's pre or post workout (even I look a little different after 20 push-ups)....   

And wow -- the pictures of Lebron's forehead through the years was fascinating (other thread).  When he lifts his eyes, he has wrinkles and ridges, and when he doesn't, the skin on his forehead is smooth.  Fascinating.  Enough to draw all sorts of firm conclusions.

And the dislike for Lebron as a person -- to the point where loyal C's fans would hand in their Celtic's fan card -- really?   You know this man?  He's a worse person than Larry Bird, The Chief, Dennis Johnson, Antoine Walker...?  How the heck do you know?  Why, because he gets calls? Because he manipulated the system to form a championship team?  Hmmm... sounds like a good idea -- wish someone would do that for the C's.

Lebron is a great basketball player.   I don't know him as a person.  You don't either.  If he played for the C's next year by some miracle -- I'd be ecstatic.   

MVP post.

Agreed, some quality posts in a less-than-quality thread.

Re: Anything disturbing in those pictures?
« Reply #38 on: May 26, 2015, 11:26:32 AM »

Offline Moranis

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Yeah I get that lots of fans are jealous and like to attack the guy, because he's arguably the best player ever. There's always been a jealous instinct to tear him down.

I wouldn't bet my own money on LeBron being fully clean of enhancement drugs, but if he's been using them it probably started all the way back in high school. Dude was always pretty ripped even for a teenager. 

In his defense, it was widely reported that he went on an exteme 67 day diet in the offseason:

Quote
James told reporters at his Nike sneaker event in Oregon that he cut out everything except meat, fish, fruit, and vegetables for 67 days. He did it to "test his mental fortitude," The Oregonian reports.

He told SI:

"I had no sugars, no dairy, I had no carbs. All I ate was meat, fish, veggies and fruit. That's it. For 67 straight days."

He told the Oregonian that he had "lost a ton of weight" ? so much weight that he's now trying to put back on a few pounds.

It doesn't take much time to put back on the weight if you add carbs back into the mix... And carbs should absolutey be in the mix if you are an athlete. You need them for energy.

Fwiw, I don't care if Lebron has taken enhancement drugs. I imagine most of the old timers like KG and Kobe probably had drugs helping them recover from injuries. And it's not like Brandon bass can start juicing and put up 38 points, 18 rebounds and 13 assists in ECF game.   Lebron is incredible.  Try to appreciate it while it lasts.  We are watching one of the greatest players to ever live.

WHAT!? :o No way.  Absolutely no way.  The only reason why you'd ever put the word 'arguably' next to lebron is if you were saying that he's 'arguably' the most protected player of all time, imo.  I honestly don't know who got more preferential treatment - Kareem, Magic, Jordan, Lebron, Duncan, Shaq, or Dirk, and those are the first guys who come to mind, because you could probably add Dr. J to that list, as well, iirc.

To me, lebron is the biggest fraud in NBA history.  Sure, he gets all the awards and accolades, but do you realize that if Pop hadn't inexplicably choked by taking Duncan out at the end of game 6 in the 2013 finals, Lebron would not only have had a career 1-3 record in the finals to that point, but that he also would have lost all 3 of those series on his home court?  Ouch.

Sure, maybe he did the Gwyneth Paltrow-type cleanse over the summer, lol ;D, but his 'miraculous' bulking up during a two week hiatus is more than a little suspicious to me, to say the least, and for the record, it does matter if he's been using steroids for even any part of his career.  It's one thing to do what Andy Pettite did and use hgh in an attempt to recover more quickly from an injury (I still don't like it, but it's not the same thing as juicing to gain a competitive edge, imo), but it's quite another to act like Mark McGwire, Barry Bonds, or Sosa.

What I cannot wait to see is what happens to Lebron's game when his athleticism leaves him, because then he won't have the ability to dunk over people all the time.  I want to see him be able to score via skill.  I don't know if you've noticed, but the dude's been the league for over a decade now, and he still has no post game, a reliable jumper, either from 3 or midrange (and he's been atrocious from the perimeter so far in the postseason), or the inclination to rebound, which he clearly just doesn't have, in addition to footwork like Pierce's.  The last time he rebounded like he did in game 3 was in game 6 against us, iirc.  IN 2012 :o. Were his 8 offensive rebounds a career high, lol ;D, and how did he ever get them, since he's never shown that he has the skill of positioning, etc., which allows you to get all of those rebounds in the first place.

He's also never changed his style of play.  Have you ever seen him be able to play off the ball in any way, because I haven't, lol ;D. To me, the great ones add something to their games every year, no matter how long they've been in the league, and Lebron just has never done that.  Okay, I guess you could say that his jumper has somewhat improved, but his free throw shooting hasn't, and he only tried posting up during what seemed like a two-week fad in Miami a couple of years ago, lol ;D. At 20 years old, Giannis has a substantially better post game than Lebron has.  I know that I recently used this clip, but check out his post move against Tony Snell starting at the 1:13 mark, after he grabbed an offensive rebound (what a concept ::)) -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZ-AJ6YDlvo

There's more skill in that one post move than I've EVER seen from Lebron whenever he's actually decided to play inside over the past 11 years, ahaha ;D.

If he ever came here, I'd throw up, to say the least, and wouldn't watch another game until he left, for all of the reasons which csfansince60s listed, and TP to him for that.  In fact, watching these pathetic attempts by Chicago and Atlanta against him makes me appreciate our Pierce, KG, and Rondo teams even more, quite honestly.

The h8rade is strong here. 

LeBron's impact can't be understated.

In 2002, the Cavs won 17 games.   The next year they win 35 games with 18 year old LeBron.  It took the teenager a couple years, but soon he was leading a ragtag group to 50-66 wins and a Finals appearance.

They won 61 games in 2009.   LeBron leaves and they win 19.  Lol

The Cavs toil away as a bottomfeeder for the next 3 years.  21, 24 and 33 wins. 

Re-Enter King James:   53 wins and a Finals appearance.  They finished the season 34-9.  That's a 64 win pace.   

Heat were a 47 win team in 2009.  Enter LeBron, they win 58 games and make the Finals 4 straight years (capping out with 66 wins).   LeBron bails... they win 37 and miss the playoffs.

LeBron James literally is the difference between a bottomfeeder lotto team and a contender.  Stick him on the worst team in the league and there is evidence they will make the playoffs.   He's unbelievable.  11 time all-star, 4 time MVP, 2 time champion.  He's 30 years old.  Let's see how the rest of his career goes.

It's hard to argue against Jordan as the greatest of all time, but it's at least mildly interesting looking at his career with the skepticism of modern internet sports culture.   Unlikely LeBron, Jordan entered the league more-or-less fully formed as a 21 year old superstar with 3 years of UNC basketball under his belt.   They win 27 games in 83 without him.  38 Games in 84 with him as a rookie.  Jordan's team actually finished below .500 his first 3 seasons.  Kinda interesting.  They didn't finish above .500 until Scottie Pippen's first season.   Also really interesting that in 1992-93 they won the championship with 57 wins.   Jordan leaves... they win 55 games without him.  I know it's unfair to hold the Wizards era against Jordan, but it's kinda interesting that Jordan never finished above .500 without Pippen.   Pippen had plenty of success without Jordan (on the Bulls, Rockets and Blazers).   Jordan never had success without Pippen. 

Jordan was amazing, though.  So were Kareem, Magic, etc.  You're watching a special basketball player right now, though.  If petty fans weren't seething with jealously they'd maybe be able to step back and enjoy this for what it is... you're witnessing someone who is easily one of the 5 greatest players to ever play the game.   The Kobe vs Jordan thing never had legs.   LeBron vs Jordan is legit, though.  He's 30 years old right now.  Let's see how the rest of his career goes. 

I will say, if we're comparing 30 year old LeBron (switched teams, gets a entirely different supporting cast and still makes his 5th straight Finals appearance... 4 MVP's and 9 All-NBA appearances under his belt) vs 30 year old Michael Jordan (Playing baseball with 3 titles, 3 MVP's and 7 All-NBA appearances under his belt), Bron may to have him beat.   Jordan-less Bulls win 55 without him.   LeBron-less Heat win 37.   So if we're playing the resume game, King James seems to have a head start.  If you look at their career stats, they are both otherworldly. Jordan - 30.1 points, 6.2 rebounds, 5.3 assists, 2.3 steals, 50%/33%/84%   LeBron - 27.3 points, 7.1 rebounds, 6.9 assists, 1.7 steals, 50%/34%/75%  LeBron is bigger, stronger, probably more athletic, a better passer, rebounder and long-distance shooter.  Jordan was probably a better defender, but LeBron is no slouch (5x Defensive first team) and one could argue that LeBron makes more of an impact defensively due to his size.     Just sayin, we have evidence to support that sticking LeBron on any team will launch it to contender status.  There isn't any evidence to support Jordan having the same level of impact since all of his success came with Pippen, and Pippen proved to be successful without him. 

I don't think this will happen, but if LeBron miraculously knocks off a loaded Warriors team... better buy a few more gallons of hatorade, because this might get cray.
excellent post man.  The way I look at the debate, if I need to win one game I take Jordan every single time, but if I'm building a franchise from scratch, I take James every single time. 
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Re: Anything disturbing in those pictures?
« Reply #39 on: May 26, 2015, 12:09:30 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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Quote
There isn't any evidence to support Jordan having the same level of impact since all of his success came with Pippen, and Pippen proved to be successful without him.

This is such an absurd statement it's nearly impossible (and certainly not worth my time) to dissect it in it's entirety. Suffice it to say it's an empty statement, you could just as easily say that Jordan never won a championship without Phil Jackson, and it would have as much bearing on the discussion, which is to say none at all.

To posit a similar phrase, you could say that LeBron has never won an NBA Finals game without at least one All Star teammate, and therefore we should be applying "modern internet skepticism" to his career so far because he's never had any success on the league's biggest stage without another Top 10 or Top 15 player. See how stupid that sounds? And yet you're penalizing Jordan for being on a good team and having a capable front office (beyond his control, particularly given free agency then and now), which were two things LeBron decidedly didn't have until he wound up in Miami.

Your evidence thus far is the same kind of evidence people use to deny climate change. Which isn't to say that it's not a discussion worth having (I agree with the premise, probably), but that this is way too skin deep for seven paragraphs.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: Anything disturbing in those pictures?
« Reply #40 on: May 26, 2015, 12:58:08 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
every last one of you will be doing cartwheels if LeBron James decides to play for the Celtics. Stop hating.

I for one would not be.

People didn't want to believe it baseball either.  I think it is feasible that players used PEDS. 
I think LeBron was productive from the get go.   Take a guy off the street and PEDs would not help him that much.   But if you have talent it can really help.

But I do not think he took games over like Jordan did from the get go.    I think Jordan had a stronger will to win.

Quote
He's also never changed his style of play.
  Why would he was effective from the get go.   I think his mental issues have improved slightly in terms of toughness and his shot has improved over time.

I think this is a good article about the roids.   Not clear cut but it raises some possibilities in a logical manner.

https://ajaythuraisingham.wordpress.com/2013/03/17/reasons-i-believe-lebron-james-uses-steroids/

Re: Anything disturbing in those pictures?
« Reply #41 on: May 26, 2015, 12:59:16 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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Note the threads with the Sully pictures over the last year.  People draw a variety of conclusions based on the same photos.  Some are certain he's fit; others are sure he's fat.   It's the angle; it's the clothing; it's pre or post workout (even I look a little different after 20 push-ups)....   

And wow -- the pictures of Lebron's forehead through the years was fascinating (other thread).  When he lifts his eyes, he has wrinkles and ridges, and when he doesn't, the skin on his forehead is smooth.  Fascinating.  Enough to draw all sorts of firm conclusions.

And the dislike for Lebron as a person -- to the point where loyal C's fans would hand in their Celtic's fan card -- really?   You know this man?  He's a worse person than Larry Bird, The Chief, Dennis Johnson, Antoine Walker...?  How the heck do you know?  Why, because he gets calls? Because he manipulated the system to form a championship team?  Hmmm... sounds like a good idea -- wish someone would do that for the C's.

Lebron is a great basketball player.   I don't know him as a person.  You don't either.  If he played for the C's next year by some miracle -- I'd be ecstatic.   

Very good post.  I'm in agreement with more or less everything . . . except the last sentence. 
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C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson

Re: Anything disturbing in those pictures?
« Reply #42 on: May 26, 2015, 01:12:00 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Quote
There isn't any evidence to support Jordan having the same level of impact since all of his success came with Pippen, and Pippen proved to be successful without him.

This is such an absurd statement it's nearly impossible (and certainly not worth my time) to dissect it in it's entirety. Suffice it to say it's an empty statement, you could just as easily say that Jordan never won a championship without Phil Jackson, and it would have as much bearing on the discussion, which is to say none at all.

To posit a similar phrase, you could say that LeBron has never won an NBA Finals game without at least one All Star teammate, and therefore we should be applying "modern internet skepticism" to his career so far because he's never had any success on the league's biggest stage without another Top 10 or Top 15 player. See how stupid that sounds? And yet you're penalizing Jordan for being on a good team and having a capable front office (beyond his control, particularly given free agency then and now), which were two things LeBron decidedly didn't have until he wound up in Miami.

Your evidence thus far is the same kind of evidence people use to deny climate change. Which isn't to say that it's not a discussion worth having (I agree with the premise, probably), but that this is way too skin deep for seven paragraphs.
Shaky evidence in a thread about foreheads and weight loss after avoiding carbs for two months.... Sure, why not?  Heh.

Lebron is arguably the best player ever.  It can be argued.  Doesn't make it true. There's at least one person in this thread who actually believes it.   It's pretty clear Lebron is one of the best players in history, though.  Stop and appreciate it.  My dad took me to see Jordan when I was a kid.  He dropped about 50 on the Sonics.  It was awesome.  If you have kids, take them to see Lebron. He's amazing.

Re: Anything disturbing in those pictures?
« Reply #43 on: May 26, 2015, 01:36:16 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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Oh, no, I totally agree with you in the grand scheme of things. I just don't agree with your rules of evidence. ;D
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: Anything disturbing in those pictures?
« Reply #44 on: May 26, 2015, 01:40:28 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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He told SI:

"I had no sugars, no dairy, I had no carbs. All I ate was meat, fish, veggies and fruit. That's it. For 67 straight days."

1. Fruit and vegetable ARE carbs.
2. If he had "no carbs", he'd be hooked up to an IV in an intensive care unit somewhere after 67 days.

I get it that it means "refined carbs", but it gave me a chuckle nonetheless.
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