Author Topic: How can the Eastern Conference be fixed?  (Read 6034 times)

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Re: How can the Eastern Conference be fixed?
« Reply #15 on: May 27, 2015, 10:39:08 AM »

Offline D.o.s.

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Get rid of conferences altogether and stop worrying about conference imbalance in the first place.  Seriously, what is the argument for continuing to put up with it, other than "that's how it's always been"?

The question in the OP might as well be "how do we fix small market teams and teams that have been criminally mismanaged for years?"  That's a tough question, but we shouldn't have to find the answer in order to make the playoffs more interesting and entertaining.

I think a lot of it at this point is travel logistics and television scheduling.

Those sound like manageable issues to me.  You can still use divisions to make sure that the teams that are closest to one another play each other more often in the regular season.

Isn't it worth figuring out to get the best playoff product possible?

Keeping conferences ensures that more exciting early round matchups are possible, e.g. Clips vs Spurs.  But is that really a good thing, when that first round matchup ends up being the most entertaining one of the playoffs?

It's one of the things that looks easy but really isn't. For example, taking the top 16 teams means that, feasibly, you could wind up with a Tuesday Night TNT double header featuring four teams (for sake of argument lets go with Clippers/Cavs and Warriors/Heat, Game 1, First Round) that simply don't work with the TV schedule: that's not why the NBA just signed a massive broadcasting deal.

So either the Clippers/Cavs Game runs at 4 pm (a particular disaster if you assume the Clips have home court) or it tips off at 10 pm, which is an awful time for a double header to start. And it's not like you can swap the games, either, since Warriors Heat could just as easily fall prey to that problem.
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Re: How can the Eastern Conference be fixed?
« Reply #16 on: May 27, 2015, 10:43:24 AM »

Offline jpotter33

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I saw an idea a long time ago about expanding the league by ten teams or so. Traditional sports powerhouse cities without basketball teams like Pittsburgh and St. Louis could join the league, and there could be more international teams in Europe and Canada. This would create less games per team per season and smaller salary caps for each team, which would seemingly balance out rosters throughout the league. There could also be penalties or fees for teams on having more than one max-level contract at a time, and this could limit the building of super-teams that have popped up lately.

I know this is a rather radical suggestion for the OP's question, but I find this idea at least interesting. As DOS said, though, travel logisitics would be difficult, but this would also have to come at the expense of a shorter schedule for each team, which I think Silver is heading towards anyways.

Re: How can the Eastern Conference be fixed?
« Reply #17 on: May 27, 2015, 10:48:09 AM »

Offline Donoghus

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Does it really matter if some of the most entertaining series occur in the first round or the conference finals or whatever?  Celtics/Bulls in '09 was one of the most entertaining series ever and that was a first round matchup.  Did it really deter from the remainder of those playoffs?  (Celtics being sans KG was a much bigger frustration, IMO). 

Entertainment is entertainment.  Sports being the most unpredictable brand of it.

Well, it should matter to the league because the best ratings are always going to be for the later rounds.  More fans tune in to watch the Conference Finals and Finals than tune in for the first round.

The most exciting matchups, one would hope, would tend to occur later in the playoffs.  Obviously it's a nice surprise when a one-sided-on-paper matchup ends up becoming an epic series, like Celtics vs Bulls in 2009. 

Also, it's a matter of quantity.  When two contenders go at it in a grueling 7 game series to open the playoffs, though, that's not such a good thing, because it means one of the more exciting teams to watch only gets, at most, 7 games.

Or are you happy that the Spurs got knocked out in round 1 and we got to watch more of the Rockets, Wizards, or Bulls, instead?

It would've been nice to see the Spurs go further but I was still entertained by a second round that didn't include them.  The conference finals have been a disappointment. I expect the Finals to be more entertaining. 

Nothing that has occurred these playoffs has caused me to throw up my hands in disgust and call for the abolition of the conferences.   Stuff shakes out that way sometimes. 

Spurs/Clippers was one for the ages.  To me, having it in the first round doesn't deter my enjoyment of that series.  Heck, the fact that Game 7 occurred on that Derby Saturday makes it even a more memorable experience.  That was just a special day to be a sports fan.

People are going to tune in for the Finals regardless.  The thing that really drives the ratings there are the markets, not necessarily how exciting a matchup might look on paper.  Boston/LA is going to pull in more than Cleveland/San Antonio.  The hope, regardless, is that it goes 7.

The Knicks as an 8 seed vs. the Lakers as a 7 seed (hypothetically) would pull in more than if it had ultimately been 1 v.1 with ATL & GSW.


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Re: How can the Eastern Conference be fixed?
« Reply #18 on: May 27, 2015, 10:53:42 AM »

Offline PhoSita

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It's one of the things that looks easy but really isn't. For example, taking the top 16 teams means that, feasibly, you could wind up with a Tuesday Night TNT double header featuring four teams (for sake of argument lets go with Clippers/Cavs and Warriors/Heat, Game 1, First Round) that simply don't work with the TV schedule: that's not why the NBA just signed a massive broadcasting deal.

So either the Clippers/Cavs Game runs at 4 pm (a particular disaster if you assume the Clips have home court) or it tips off at 10 pm, which is an awful time for a double header to start. And it's not like you can swap the games, either, since Warriors Heat could just as easily fall prey to that problem.

Strong points.  I'll admit, the time zone issue is a significant one.  I still think it's manageable.

I just don't accept that the status quo is the best we can do.

No, it's not such an egregious issue that it totally ruins the playoffs.  Not at all.  But I strongly believe that things are not as good as they could be. 

In a league where more than half of the teams make the playoffs, we don't always get to see the most entertaining teams in the playoffs, and often we're watching truly mediocre teams play well into May while teams with legitimate championship aspirations are sitting at home. 

That just seems silly to me, and correctable.   If it's correctable, then why accept the way things are?
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Re: How can the Eastern Conference be fixed?
« Reply #19 on: May 27, 2015, 11:00:18 AM »

Offline Granath

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Everything is cyclical, but the Eastern Conference has gotten extremely unlucky with the lottery when it counted the most. When there's been that exceptionally rare "can't miss" prospect, the West has gotten the better of that deal. When I consider those select handful of guys who were really known as being the "next great thing", I remember only a handful of guys who had that reputation. And the West has gotten most of them from the past 15 or so years:

West: Tim Duncan, Yao Ming, Carmelo Anthony, Greg Oden, Kevin Durant, Anthony Davis

East: Lebron, Elton Brand, Derrick Rose

In many of those, the West leapfrogged an East team to get that true blue-chip player (Duncan, Durant, Davis) whereas the East's only leapfrog in that list is Elton Brand (and I'm probably being generous including him on this list). And 'Melo was a gift-wrapped present from Detroit to Denver.

Now maybe my memory is faulty. Maybe this is just selection bias. Maybe there were some other guys who were tabbed as "can't miss" in that time frame. But I can't remember any. I remember plenty of really good basketball players like Dwight Howard, but even he wasn't pegged as the next sure thing.

I'm not suggesting a conspiracy or anything, but face it - the East has generally gotten Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline. on in the lottery whereas the West has leapfrogged East teams at the most opportune times. That's one reason for the imbalance.
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Re: How can the Eastern Conference be fixed?
« Reply #20 on: May 27, 2015, 11:00:50 AM »

Offline JohnBoy65

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It's one of the things that looks easy but really isn't. For example, taking the top 16 teams means that, feasibly, you could wind up with a Tuesday Night TNT double header featuring four teams (for sake of argument lets go with Clippers/Cavs and Warriors/Heat, Game 1, First Round) that simply don't work with the TV schedule: that's not why the NBA just signed a massive broadcasting deal.

So either the Clippers/Cavs Game runs at 4 pm (a particular disaster if you assume the Clips have home court) or it tips off at 10 pm, which is an awful time for a double header to start. And it's not like you can swap the games, either, since Warriors Heat could just as easily fall prey to that problem.

Strong points.  I'll admit, the time zone issue is a significant one.  I still think it's manageable.

I just don't accept that the status quo is the best we can do.

No, it's not such an egregious issue that it totally ruins the playoffs.  Not at all.  But I strongly believe that things are not as good as they could be. 

In a league where more than half of the teams make the playoffs, we don't always get to see the most entertaining teams in the playoffs, and often we're watching truly mediocre teams play well into May while teams with legitimate championship aspirations are sitting at home. 

That just seems silly to me, and correctable.   If it's correctable, then why accept the way things are?

Also, I saw Silver speaking somewhere earlier, without conferences and divisions had the same teams made it this year, a round 1 match up would have been Boston and Golden State. Now, it's probably wouldn't have, but think if the series had gone to game 5, 6, or 7. That's A LOT of travel. Then the theory is the Warriors could play someone in the next round that hadn't travelled much and could be more fresh.

Re: How can the Eastern Conference be fixed?
« Reply #21 on: May 27, 2015, 11:07:37 AM »

Offline PhoSita

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It's one of the things that looks easy but really isn't. For example, taking the top 16 teams means that, feasibly, you could wind up with a Tuesday Night TNT double header featuring four teams (for sake of argument lets go with Clippers/Cavs and Warriors/Heat, Game 1, First Round) that simply don't work with the TV schedule: that's not why the NBA just signed a massive broadcasting deal.

So either the Clippers/Cavs Game runs at 4 pm (a particular disaster if you assume the Clips have home court) or it tips off at 10 pm, which is an awful time for a double header to start. And it's not like you can swap the games, either, since Warriors Heat could just as easily fall prey to that problem.

Strong points.  I'll admit, the time zone issue is a significant one.  I still think it's manageable.

I just don't accept that the status quo is the best we can do.

No, it's not such an egregious issue that it totally ruins the playoffs.  Not at all.  But I strongly believe that things are not as good as they could be. 

In a league where more than half of the teams make the playoffs, we don't always get to see the most entertaining teams in the playoffs, and often we're watching truly mediocre teams play well into May while teams with legitimate championship aspirations are sitting at home. 

That just seems silly to me, and correctable.   If it's correctable, then why accept the way things are?

Also, I saw Silver speaking somewhere earlier, without conferences and divisions had the same teams made it this year, a round 1 match up would have been Boston and Golden State. Now, it's probably wouldn't have, but think if the series had gone to game 5, 6, or 7. That's A LOT of travel. Then the theory is the Warriors could play someone in the next round that hadn't travelled much and could be more fresh.

Well, the Warriors would have destroyed the Celtics.  Which is relevant because they earned the #1 seed and they'd have earned the right to face a weak opponent.  That cuts against the travel.

The travel is an issue for teams in the Finals, too.  Some teams in-conference end up forcing lots of travel, in any case.  A series between the Pelicans and the Trailblazers, for example, isn't exactly a peach.

Making that kind of travel more common in the playoffs would make depth and managing players' minutes in the regular season even more important.  I'm pretty much OK with that.

The TV scheduling issue is probably the biggest hurdle.
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Re: How can the Eastern Conference be fixed?
« Reply #22 on: May 27, 2015, 11:24:46 AM »

Offline Moranis

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In the 80's it was the other way around. The east was dominate and the west was a joke. The Lakers had a cakewalk to the finals every year.

It' will turn around one day. This isn't the first time something like this has happened.
There is a lot of myth there.  There were certainly some great Sixers teams and the Pistons emerged at the end of the decade, but there were a lot of poor teams in the East.  The Bucks, a solid but not great team, were consistently a top 3 team in the conference and frankly weren't much different than the Spurs of the earlier 80's with Gervin.  The Rockets emerged after Dream, the Suns and Sonics both has some pretty nice runs in the 80's, and then the Blazers exploded near the end of the decade.  We Celtic fans love to claim it was so hard for us and so easy for the Lakers, but a lot of that just isn't all that true. 
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Re: How can the Eastern Conference be fixed?
« Reply #23 on: May 27, 2015, 11:33:16 AM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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Re: How can the Eastern Conference be fixed?
« Reply #24 on: May 27, 2015, 11:35:27 AM »

Offline Granath

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Well, the Warriors would have destroyed the Celtics.  Which is relevant because they earned the #1 seed and they'd have earned the right to face a weak opponent.  That cuts against the travel.

The travel is an issue for teams in the Finals, too.  Some teams in-conference end up forcing lots of travel, in any case.  A series between the Pelicans and the Trailblazers, for example, isn't exactly a peach.

Making that kind of travel more common in the playoffs would make depth and managing players' minutes in the regular season even more important.  I'm pretty much OK with that.

The TV scheduling issue is probably the biggest hurdle.

#1 - Some customers do not want to see "cross pollination" in the playoffs. There's a reason every major sport runs through a conference system. Hence you're taking a major risk alienating some customers by doing this. Would you rather see the Warriors take on Cleveland in the semi-finals or is that a more attractive match up in the finals?

#2 - Playoff travel schedules can get absurd. Maybe the Warriors do kill the Celtics. If I'm correct, they would then have to go to Washington. Then Cleveland.

#3 - To be fair this scenario would require balanced schedules where every team plays every other the same number of games. After all, why seed across conferences if teams haven't played each other the same number of games?

#4 - TV time zone problems. A series of the Warriors vs the Celtics creates major headaches - the start of the games will be either too late on the East Coast or too early on the West Cost. Many fans simply can't watch a game that starts at 10:30 PM their time (EST watching PST game) and people are working if the game starts at 4:30 PM (PST watching an EST game). This isn't a surmountable problem either - this will greatly impact the number of fans able to watch the games, lessening both fan interest and TV revenue.

In short, your proposal has too many negatives that outweigh the positives.
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Re: How can the Eastern Conference be fixed?
« Reply #25 on: May 27, 2015, 11:48:35 AM »

Offline D.o.s.

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Why don't they just get rid of conferences and run the whole thing on tape delay?
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Re: How can the Eastern Conference be fixed?
« Reply #26 on: May 27, 2015, 11:48:35 AM »

Offline Granath

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In the 80's it was the other way around. The east was dominate and the west was a joke. The Lakers had a cakewalk to the finals every year.

It' will turn around one day. This isn't the first time something like this has happened.
There is a lot of myth there.  There were certainly some great Sixers teams and the Pistons emerged at the end of the decade, but there were a lot of poor teams in the East.  The Bucks, a solid but not great team, were consistently a top 3 team in the conference and frankly weren't much different than the Spurs of the earlier 80's with Gervin.  The Rockets emerged after Dream, the Suns and Sonics both has some pretty nice runs in the 80's, and then the Blazers exploded near the end of the decade.  We Celtic fans love to claim it was so hard for us and so easy for the Lakers, but a lot of that just isn't all that true.

This isn't myth. The East beat the West head-to-head in every single year of the entire decade of the 80s.

FYI, you don't give the Bucks nearly enough credit. That was an excellent team that won at least 50 games for 7 straight years. It's probably the best team to never make an NBA finals and they lost against Philly or Bos in the playoffs in every year of that span.


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Re: How can the Eastern Conference be fixed?
« Reply #27 on: May 27, 2015, 11:49:07 AM »

Offline Granath

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Why don't they just get rid of conferences and run the whole thing on tape delay?

I sincerely hope this was a joke.
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Re: How can the Eastern Conference be fixed?
« Reply #28 on: May 27, 2015, 11:50:21 AM »

Offline D.o.s.

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Why don't they just get rid of conferences and run the whole thing on tape delay?

I sincerely hope this was a joke.
I sincerely hope you can figure that out without an explanation.


In the 80's it was the other way around. The east was dominate and the west was a joke. The Lakers had a cakewalk to the finals every year.

It' will turn around one day. This isn't the first time something like this has happened.
There is a lot of myth there.  There were certainly some great Sixers teams and the Pistons emerged at the end of the decade, but there were a lot of poor teams in the East.  The Bucks, a solid but not great team, were consistently a top 3 team in the conference and frankly weren't much different than the Spurs of the earlier 80's with Gervin.  The Rockets emerged after Dream, the Suns and Sonics both has some pretty nice runs in the 80's, and then the Blazers exploded near the end of the decade.  We Celtic fans love to claim it was so hard for us and so easy for the Lakers, but a lot of that just isn't all that true.

This isn't myth. The East beat the West head-to-head in every single year of the entire decade of the 80s.

FYI, you don't give the Bucks nearly enough credit. That was a [dang] fine team that won at least 50 games for 7 straight years. It's probably the best team to never make an NBA finals and they lost against Philly or Bos in the playoffs in every year of that span.

Actually the best team to never make an NBA Finals would be the 1973 Boston Celtics, but I agree about the Bucks.
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Re: How can the Eastern Conference be fixed?
« Reply #29 on: May 27, 2015, 12:01:00 PM »

Offline Granath

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I sincerely hope you can figure that out without an explanation.

I dunno man. Some of the stuff posted on CB in earnest makes you wonder!

Actually the best team to never make an NBA Finals would be the 1973 Boston Celtics, but I agree about the Bucks.

Maybe I should have been more specific since I was talking about the best team over a series of years to never make it to the NBA finals - not just over one season.
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