GSW - Deepest team in NBA History?

[Boris Badenov]

Larry Bird, HoF, Top 50, MVP, Finals MVP, All-NBA first team, All-Defense second team, All-Star...
Kevin McHale, HoF, Top 50, All-NBA first team, All-Defense first team, All-Star...
Robert Parish, HoF, Top 50, All-NBA second team, All-Star...
Dennis Johnson, HoF, Finals MVP, All-NBA first team, All-Defense first team, All-Star...
Danny Ainge, All-Star...
Bill Walton, HoF, Top 50, MVP, Finals MVP, All-NBA first team, All-Defense first team, All-Star...
Scott Wedman, All-Star, All-Defense second team
Jerry Sichting, assist leader on Pacers '84 team
Sam Vincent, second in scoring and assist leader on Bulls '88 team
Greg Kite, rebound and blocks leader on Magic '91 team
Rick Carlisle, coach of the year, champs with Mavs'11

Maybe we have different definitions of "deep," but in my view deep teams usually don't play most of their starters for almost 40mpg. I think that C's team had the best top 6 of any team in history, but Wedman and Sichting weren't much above replacement level even for bench guys.

My pick for best bench would be the 1988-89 Pistons. They had Salley, Rodman, the Microwave and James Edwards coming off the bench - all better than average starters. Vinnie Johnson was one of the best (if not the best) 6th men. Rodman was a year away from making the All-Star team. Salley was top five in DBPM that year. And Edwards would have started on many teams.

[MJohnnyboy]

With the cap rules that the league has now, I would say yes, but like others have said, those 80s Celtics, Lakers, and Pistons teams were unbelievably loaded that they would crush teams today. Nonetheless, Golden State has been very smart these past few years in how they've built up their team. With 2010 as the exception (They took Ekpe Udoh over Paul George and Gordon Hayward, imagine George or Hayward on this team  ), Golden State has drafted tremendously well since 2009 (Curry, Thompson, Barnes, Green) and has added the right guys to surround that core (Bogut, Iguodala, Lee, Livingston, Speights, Barbosa, Ezeli).

It hasn't been perfect for the Warriors at every turn such as trading 2 1st round picks to sign an aging Iggy, who they're probably going to trade next year to make cap room to re-sign Barnes, or trading for Jordan Crawford (Thanks for the picks Miami!). Heck not even all their moves looked good at first. I remember their fans were uber-p---ed when they traded Monta Ellis for a fragile Bogut and I thought when they stopped playing Lee altogether it would hurt them, but they proved everyone wrong.

When stands out the most to me is that not only is this team deep, but they are smart and versatile. Curry, Thompson, Iguodala, Livingston, Barbosa, Green, and even Bogut are adept ball handlers and passers. Outside of Bogut and Ezeli, I'd say all their rotation guys are capable of playing 2-3 positions. Barring any fluke injuries that happen between now and June, I don't see anyone topping the Warriors this year, and barring any really stupid moves/career-ending injuries, I see the Warriors doing this for the next several years.

[Moranis]

San An last year was probably just as deep and frankly a better team than the Warriors.  Heck a healthy Cavs team is probably just as deep if not deeper (Irving, James, Love, Mozgov, Varejao, Thompson, Smith, Shumpert, Della, Perkins, Marion, Haywood).

[SHAQATTACK]

I hope they win the title.   I'm a big Curry fan ........buttttt

I'm worried though ,  they got stomped by LeBron in Cleveland .


If they can win the first two games against Cleveland ......I think LeBron folds like he did against the Spurs.

[hpantazo]

Team In the 60s

Yep, the Bill Russell era celtics roster was basically all hall of fame level players. Heck , there were so few teams in the league in that era, that all teams were extremely deep.

[MJohnnyboy]

San An last year was probably just as deep and frankly a better team than the Warriors.  Heck a healthy Cavs team is probably just as deep if not deeper (Irving, James, Love, Mozgov, Varejao, Thompson, Smith, Shumpert, Della, Perkins, Marion, Haywood).

Sorry I completely disagree with you on that one about the cavs. Marion, Perk, and Haywood are all end of the bench scrubs at this point in their careers who are on their way out of the league after this year, and Varejao hasn't been healthy in years. James Jones does more for the Cavs than any of those 4 guys. Outside of their three they have Mozgov, Thompson, Smith, and Shumpert. Delladova is okay, but nothing special.

Compare that to the Warriors (Curry, Thompson, Green, Barnes, Bogut, Iguodala, Livingston, Speights, Ezeli, Lee, Barbosa) and I'm taking the Warriors, and I don't think twice.

[Celtics4ever]

Wedman and Sichting weren't much above replacement level even for bench guys

I do not think you know much about Wedman at all.  He was almost a 20 PPG scorer at times in his career before coming to the C's

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wedmasc01.html

He was also a two time allstar for KC!

Wedman was a proficient shooter. He represented the Kansas City Kings twice in the NBA All-Star Game. During his time in Kansas City, Wedman gained the nickname "The Incredible Hulk" because of his extensive sessions in the weight room. On March 4, 1979, Wedman was involved in a 1-car accident in which his Porsche overturned on a rainy highway in Kansas City. At the time, doctors credited his conditioning with keeping him out of action for only a few games.

He hit a career summit in 1979-80 and 1980–81, with a scoring average of 19.0 points per game. On January 2, 1980, he scored 45 points in an overtime win at Utah for his career high. Wedman was a key to Kansas City's postseason success in 1981. Despite finishing the regular season with only a 40-42 record, the Kings caught fire in the playoffs, beating Portland and Phoenix before losing in the Western Conference finals to Houston in five games.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Wedman


What exactly are you basing your presumption on or are you not aware of this?

[MJohnnyboy]

I hope they win the title.   I'm a big Curry fan ........buttttt

I'm worried though ,  they got stomped by LeBron in Cleveland .


If they can win the first two games against Cleveland ......I think LeBron folds like he did against the Spurs.

Regular season is different from the playoffs. Atlanta beat the cavs 3-1 in the regular season as someone said earlier. It's a whole new ballgame in the playoffs. Not to mention then Lebron had Love and a healthy irving by his side then. He won't this time when he faces the Warriors.

[Beat LA]

Wedman and Sichting weren't much above replacement level even for bench guys

I do not think you know much about Wedman at all.  He was almost a 20 PPG scorer at times in his career before coming to the C's

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wedmasc01.html

He was also a two time allstar for KC!

Wedman was a proficient shooter. He represented the Kansas City Kings twice in the NBA All-Star Game. During his time in Kansas City, Wedman gained the nickname "The Incredible Hulk" because of his extensive sessions in the weight room. On March 4, 1979, Wedman was involved in a 1-car accident in which his Porsche overturned on a rainy highway in Kansas City. At the time, doctors credited his conditioning with keeping him out of action for only a few games.

He hit a career summit in 1979-80 and 1980–81, with a scoring average of 19.0 points per game. On January 2, 1980, he scored 45 points in an overtime win at Utah for his career high. Wedman was a key to Kansas City's postseason success in 1981. Despite finishing the regular season with only a 40-42 record, the Kings caught fire in the playoffs, beating Portland and Phoenix before losing in the Western Conference finals to Houston in five games.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Wedman


What exactly are you basing your presumption on or are you not aware of this?

Yeah, I was just going to say that.  If Wedman had been so easily replaceable , Darren Daye and Fred Roberts would have been in the running for 6th man of the year in 87, lol . Ugh. Wedman wasn't fast, or especially quick, but he was an excellent rebounder, one of the best pure shooters of his era, if not all time, and had lightning quick hands like Chris Mullin, which meant that he wasn't a complete liability on defense.

As for the deepest team, well, I can't argue with the 86 team, although I do think it could have been deeper, but then again, KC never would have played many more guys, and the deepest Bird team that never was might have been the 87-88 squad, with Bias and Lewis coming off the bench. Holy crap.

The 85 Lakers were also outstanding, as were the 88-89 Pistons, as well as Detroit's teams in 90 and 91. Their bench of VJ, Aguirre, and Salley was better than many teams' starting lineups, lol . Deng .

[crimson_stallion]

Harrison Barnes- Two way player, could be a 1st or 2nd option scorer on other teams.
Andrew Bogut- Former number 1 pick, All NBA, All Defensive Player.
Stephen Curry- MVP, All Star, perhaps greatest shooter NBA history, World champion
Festus Ezeli- Great 7 footer would start on most teams
Draymond Green- Can do it all (sir charles jr.) NBA All Defence
Andre Iguodala- All Star, true 1st NBA scorer, NBA All Defence, USA gold medalist 
David Lee- All Star, All NBA
Shaun Livingston- Former numer 4 pick, potential HOF skill set, ruined by injury.
Marreese Speights- Versatile big man
Klay Thompson- All Star, All NBA, two way player with elite 3 point stroke.

No doubt this is a deep roster, but lets be honest - is it really much deeper than ours is right now?

Isaiah Thomas, Jared Sullinger, Kelly Olynyk, Jae Crowder, Even Turner, Brandon Bass, Marcus Smart, Avery Bradley, Tyler Zeller, Jerebko, Datome - the way all of these guys have been playing i'll put our depth against theirs any day of the week, and twice on Sunday. 

Really the only thing separating them from us is the stars (Curry, Thompson) which they have, but we don't.  In terms of depth though, I believe that we are right up there with them.

As for Draymond Green, I'm really not a fan of how much people are overrating his abilities and his versatility.  Lots of people describe him as a "swiss army knife" / "do it all" type of guy, but he's not that at all.  He does a couple of things (Defense, rebounding) at a very high level, but he's still really very limited offensively.   

He finishes well around the basket, but he doesn't have the greatest jump shot (33% from three, 20% from 3-10 feet, 34% from > 16 feet).  He's not really competent at creating his own shot (74% of field goals are assisted).  He's a below average free throw shooter (66%).  Also his FG% (44%) is quite poor considering his position and style of play.

He's improved very rapidly from year to year and he's still young, so he certainly has the potential to become a nice offensive player in a couple of years...but right now he's a poor man's 2005 Gerald Wallace.  Oh and before somebody complains about that comparison, check Wallace's 2005 stats.

[Boris Badenov]

Wedman and Sichting weren't much above replacement level even for bench guys

I do not think you know much about Wedman at all.  He was almost a 20 PPG scorer at times in his career before coming to the C's

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wedmasc01.html

He was also a two time allstar for KC!

Wedman was a proficient shooter. He represented the Kansas City Kings twice in the NBA All-Star Game. During his time in Kansas City, Wedman gained the nickname "The Incredible Hulk" because of his extensive sessions in the weight room. On March 4, 1979, Wedman was involved in a 1-car accident in which his Porsche overturned on a rainy highway in Kansas City. At the time, doctors credited his conditioning with keeping him out of action for only a few games.

He hit a career summit in 1979-80 and 1980–81, with a scoring average of 19.0 points per game. On January 2, 1980, he scored 45 points in an overtime win at Utah for his career high. Wedman was a key to Kansas City's postseason success in 1981. Despite finishing the regular season with only a 40-42 record, the Kings caught fire in the playoffs, beating Portland and Phoenix before losing in the Western Conference finals to Houston in five games.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Wedman


What exactly are you basing your presumption on or are you not aware of this?

Yeah, I was just going to say that.  If Wedman had been so easily replaceable , Darren Daye and Fred Roberts would have been in the running for 6th man of the year in 87, lol . Ugh. Wedman wasn't fast, or especially quick, but he was an excellent rebounder, one of the best pure shooters of his era, if not all time, and had lightning quick hands like Chris Mullin, which meant that he wasn't a complete liability on defense.

Oh please. I know Wedman's history and he played some decent games for the C's that year. But in 1986 he was a shadow of his former productive self. You're talking about things that happened several years before that season.

Heck, he played a total of 6 games in the NBA after that 1986 season. You simply can't argue that he was as productive as any of the Pistons guys I mentioned.

[Celtics4ever]

Oh please. I know Wedman's history and he played some decent games for the C's that year.

I call BS, you did not know it or you would not have said it because it makes zero sense.  If you want to keep deeping a hole for yourself that is on you.

In Boston, he was instrumental as a player off the bench in the Celtics' NBA championships in 1984 and 1986. Boston fans remember Wedman's performance in the Memorial Day Massacre, an appellation for Game 1 of the 1985 NBA Finals. Coming off the bench, Wedman hit all 11 of his shots, including four three-pointers, in Boston's 148-114 win over the Lakers. He often spelled Larry Bird and Kevin McHale or replaced them whenever they were injured.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Wedman


His talent was precisely the reason Red went out and got him.

[jambr380]

Harrison Barnes- Two way player, could be a 1st or 2nd option scorer on other teams.
Andrew Bogut- Former number 1 pick, All NBA, All Defensive Player.
Stephen Curry- MVP, All Star, perhaps greatest shooter NBA history, World champion
Festus Ezeli- Great 7 footer would start on most teams
Draymond Green- Can do it all (sir charles jr.) NBA All Defence
Andre Iguodala- All Star, true 1st NBA scorer, NBA All Defence, USA gold medalist 
David Lee- All Star, All NBA
Shaun Livingston- Former numer 4 pick, potential HOF skill set, ruined by injury.
Marreese Speights- Versatile big man
Klay Thompson- All Star, All NBA, two way player with elite 3 point stroke.

No doubt this is a deep roster, but lets be honest - is it really much deeper than ours is right now?

Isaiah Thomas, Jared Sullinger, Kelly Olynyk, Jae Crowder, Even Turner, Brandon Bass, Marcus Smart, Avery Bradley, Tyler Zeller, Jerebko, Datome - the way all of these guys have been playing i'll put our depth against theirs any day of the week, and twice on Sunday. 

Really the only thing separating them from us is the stars (Curry, Thompson) which they have, but we don't.  In terms of depth though, I believe that we are right up there with them.

As for Draymond Green, I'm really not a fan of how much people are overrating his abilities and his versatility.  Lots of people describe him as a "swiss army knife" / "do it all" type of guy, but he's not that at all.  He does a couple of things (Defense, rebounding) at a very high level, but he's still really very limited offensively.   

He finishes well around the basket, but he doesn't have the greatest jump shot (33% from three, 20% from 3-10 feet, 34% from > 16 feet).  He's not really competent at creating his own shot (74% of field goals are assisted).  He's a below average free throw shooter (66%).  Also his FG% (44%) is quite poor considering his position and style of play.

He's improved very rapidly from year to year and he's still young, so he certainly has the potential to become a nice offensive player in a couple of years...but right now he's a poor man's 2005 Gerald Wallace.  Oh and before somebody complains about that comparison, check Wallace's 2005 stats.

This was my thought (through my green colored glasses). We actually have a lot of depth, but no stars - this is obviously a problem.

As for the Warriors, I think their depth is a bit overrated. A guy like Iguodala sounds awesome, but he is proving to be over the hill. Lee has had his injury problems, Livingston is coming back from the dead, and even Harrison Barnes isn't all that good yet. I agree that last year's Spurs were deeper (never mind the classic '86 Cs).

[crimson_stallion]

As for deepest team ever, no. 

I'm not even sure it's the deepest team of this decade.

2012-13 Lakers
Dwight Howard, Pau Gasol, Metta World Peace, Kobe Bryant, Steve Nash, Earl Clark, Jordan Hill, Antawn Jamison, Jodie Meeks, Steve Blake

When your top five players averaged 28/5/4 (Kobe), 20/14.5/2/1.5/2 (Dwight), 17/10/3 (Gasol), 12/10/3 (Nash) and 17/6/2 (Jamison) in he season prior...then then you have a lot of talent.

Add to that a bunch of solid role players like Earl Clark, Jordan Hill, Jodie Meeks, Steve Black and MWP and you have one of the deepest and most talented teams ever assembled.   

Unfortunately that all came crashing down when Nash and Dwight suffer from major injury issues, and when (even worst than that) the Lakers decided to hire Mike D'Antoni as head coach.

The end result for this team was a combination of bad luck, poor decision making, and poor chemistry and it will probably go down in the books as one of the most epic failures in NBA history...but nobody can deny the amount of talent/depth this team had.  This year's Warriors don't even come close.

2012-13 Miami Heat
Lebron, Wade, Bosh, Ray Allen, Shane Battier, Mario Chalmers, Rashard Lewis, Chris Andersen, James Jones, Mike Miller

This team doesn't look that deep on paper, mainly because after LBW (Ray Allen at a BIG stretch) there was nobody else on this team even resembling a star a this point in their careers.  Battier and Chalmers were basically 3-and-D guys, Andersen was career role player, and the others (Lewis, Jones, Miller and arguably even Ray Allen) had become one dimensional role players by this point in their careers.

But those guys still count as depth, because Miami's entire offensive game plan essentially involved surrounding Lebron and Wade with shooters in order to space the floor and give those guys the room they needed to operate...and Miami had arguably more deadly shooters than any other team in the league.  Between Mario Chalmers, Ray Allen, Rashard Lewis, James Jones, Mike Miller, Shane Battier and Chris Bosh the Heat were able to ensure they always had 3-4 dangerous shooters on the perimeter, and that made it absolutely impossible for teams to risk double-teaming Lebron or Wade.

If you define depth as how deep you can go in your roster and still find starting calibre talent, then this team wasn't that deep.   However if you define depth as how deep you can go in your roster and still find guys who help you win games, then that team was as deep as any. 


2010-11 Orlando Magic
Dwight Howard, Rashard Lewis, Hedo Turkoglu, Ryan Anderson, Brandon Bass, Vince Carter, Gilbert Arenas, Marcin Gortat, Jameer Nelson, Mickael Pietrus, J.J. Reddick, Jason Richardson, Quentin Richardson, Jason Williams.

This team had 11 guys on the roster who played 20 or more minutes per game. 

Nine of those 11 guys averaged double figure scoring - Dwight Howard (22.9), Jason Richardson (13.9), Hedo Turkoglu (11.4), Rashard Lewis (12.2), Jameer Nelson (13.1), Vince Carter (15.1), Brandon Bass (11.2), JJ Reddick (10.1) and Ryan Anderson (10.6). 

The other two were Mickael Pietrus (6.7) and Gilbert Arenas ( who also contributed in their own ways.

Not a while lot of star power after Howard (Carter, Arenas, Richardson and Lewis were all once stars, but had long faded by this time) but that depth is just ridiculous.

2009-2010 Celtics
Pierce, Garnett, Ray Allen, Rajon Rondo, Tony Allen, Glen Davis, Eddie House, Kendrick Perkins, Nate Robinson, Rasheed Wallace, Shelden Williams, Marquis Daniels

At this point Tony Allen was starting to show his potential as an elite defensive specialist, Glen Davis was a legit 6th man candidate,  Eddie House and Nate Robinson were our offensive spark plugs, Rasheed Wallace was an outstanding interior defender who could stretch the floor, and Shelden+Marquis were out effort/hustle guys. 

When you have a solid bench like that and your fourth best player (Rondo) is averaging 14/9/5/2 then you have a pretty deep team.

2010-11 Celtics
Pierce, Garnett, Ray Allen, Rajon Rondo, Glen Davis, Jeff Green, Nenad Krstic, Jermaine Oneal, Kendrick Perkins, Shaquille Oneal, Nate Robinson, Delonte West, Marquis Daniels)

This team had the potential to be the deepest team in the Big 3 era.  If all our guys were healthy then pre-trade our depth chart would have been:

R Rondo / N Robinson
R Allen / D West
P Pierce / M Daniels
K Garnett / G Davis / J Oneal
K Perkins / S Oneal

Then the trade happened, and our depth char would have been

R Rondo / D West
R Allen / M Daniels
P Pierce / J Green
K Garnett / G Davis / J Oneal
N Krstic / S Oneal 

No matter how you look at it, that's some pretty crazy depth.  Yes I know that Shaq and Jermaine we shells of their former selves at this time, but Jermaine was still an excellent rim protector (and decent rebounder) and even at 39 years old Shaq was still undefendable - we were dominating teams anytime he was on the court.

Unfortunately we lost Perk for the season, then lost Shaq for the season, lost Delonte for much of the season, lost Jermaine for most of the season, lost Marquis, then did the trade for Krstic...and lost him in the playoffs.  So then by the time we finished out tour of the playoffs, our depth chart had become..

R Rondo / D West
R Allen / V Wafer
P Pierce / J Green
K Garnett / J Green
J Oneal / T Murphy 

Ouch...

But in terms of the actual names on the roster, had we remained healthy, that would have been an incredibly deep team and IMO at least on par with this year's Warriors.

[GC003332]

It terms of Hall of Famers, how many championships and seasons like this would this Golden State team have to put together to get multiple guys in?