Kobe retiring after 2015-2016 season. Where does he rank?

[PhoSita]

Players I have ahead of Kobe:

Jordan
Russell
Kareem
Bird
Magic
Wilt
Duncan
Shaq
Hakeem
LeBron

Interesting case to be made for Malone, too, from a purely statistical standpoint.

[fairweatherfan]

In LA, Kobe is top 5 all-time; everywhere else outside of Boston, he is top ten. 

In Boston, he's top 20.

Kobe FEELS like he should be top 10 to me, but to put him there means he's better than at least four of these guys:

Jordan
Russell
Wilt
Kareem
Bird
Magic
Oscar
West
Duncan
Hakeem
Shaq
LeBron
Baylor

It's a tough call.  But he's legitimately in that second all-time tier somewhere.

[Greyman]

Kobe is definitely top 20, probably top 15, arguably top 10 and not in my top 5 but I am biased.

[Eja117]

I might have him as high as the 2nd or 3rd best sg. If he's a small forward then a little lower. I don't know if he's top ten but he's really high in my book.  Loses a little luster for not really being the leader on some of his championship teams and for not being a passer. I don't think he always made his teammates better either. At worst he's some sort of Tracy McGrady guy that happened to be in the right place right time and didn't get hurt. At best he's a highly competitive guy that was more talented than almost anyone and crushed a lot of people. 

He clearly comes out ahead of TMac, Manu, and Vince Carter, and probably AI, and is probably a bit ahead of Paul Pierce and maybe on par with Bron. Those are the guys of his era.

If you start comparing him to the Oscar Robertsons and the Larry Birds and the Dr Js it gets more dicey.

[Jon]

I think the one knock on him being truly, truly great, is aside from the last title (where a healthy Perk likely would have changed the outcome), Kobe was never even clearly the best player on those championship teams.

Granted, that is partly a testament to Shaq's greatness, which isn't Kobe's fault. But was there ever any question with likes of MJ, Larry, Chamberlain, etc. who the best player on the team was? And even if that isn't a direct knock on Kobe, I think that fact that the bulk of his success came with Shaq does diminish his accomplishments. How many titles would even someone like PP have won had you put him next to Shaq in his prime?

[GC003332]

One of the new breed of guys who took MJ's ISO ball and reduced it to embarrassing levels at times.
How many of his seasons were completed wasted due to his ego getting the better of him.
Forget about his disgraceful 2004 finals performance or his proving a point Phoenix series, the guy was the opitomy of a me first player, Lebron hate aside it is so refreshing to see a guy play the "right way".
Even the guys clutch ness is overrated , the guy would rather jack a long contested  jumper over 2 or 3 defenders as opposed to making the right play.All in the name of being "the man".
Seriously who decides mid career to change their playing number whilst remaining on the same team, really Kobe.
Maybe he was really trying to copy MJ's 23 to 45 switch.

If the measure of greatness is making those around you better , Kobe ain't great that is for sure.
The guy lived to get his shot off in more ways than one.

[Redz]

Where does Kobe rank on the list of star athletes who got away with severe felonies?

I kid... Sort of.

https://youtu.be/0bxnuOdWUmA

I think I was introduced to this through a Kobe thread on here trees ago.

Kobe has won me over a bit late in his career, but he is in that second tier still that others have mentioned.

Where's Cousy on all of those lists?  come on people, the dude revolutionized the game!

[droopdog7]

Top 10 all-time. 2nd best SG ever.

MJ
Mamba
Jerry West
AI
Havlicek

Really tough to rank them after that.

Sounds about right.

[SHAQATTACK]

Top five at his position I think.

Kobe best asset .....is his killer instinct and undying will to win every game . His competitiveness is right there with MJ

[Ogaju]

The truth is I dislike Kobe with a passion but I cannot deny his greatness.

I have to put this guy up there like the top five in the history of the game.

He is in the conversation of GOAT. He suffers a lot because of his battles with the beloved Shaq and his brash attitude that is borne of his elitism. The rape allegation in Colorado did not help his cause either, but the guy is a winner and a champion.

I do not like him mostly because he is a Laker. If Kobe was a Celtic, I would love him.

[86MaxwellSmart]

Retiring--?...I thought he was just leaving the Lakers...I bet he plays somewhere after next season.

[Eja117]

Retiring--?...I thought he was just leaving the Lakers...I bet he plays somewhere after next season.

Italy?

[Onslaught]

He's an overrated top 15 player in my book. Now when I call someone overrated that's not saying they stink. I'm just saying they're great but not as great as people make them out to be.  I respect the fact that he plays hurt and has an "old school" mentality about the game that I like and that's missing from the NBA these days. And he's the closest Jordan clone I've ever seen. He's also a jerk and an A hole (his words) and I like that too.

That said I don't understand how he's become thought of as clutch. He's a ball hog who throws up massive amounts of shots. He wasn't the best player on 3 of his 5 championship teams and the last one he won he didn't play that well in game 7. If Boston hadn't payed so much attention to Kobe in game 7 and guarded his supporting players he'd only have 4 rings.

Scoring over 80 points in a game is massive. But it was against Toronto and if it had been against a team like say the Bad Boys Pistons or 90's Knicks I'm sure they would've snapped him in half by the time he got to 50. I'm more impressed with MJ scoring a ton of point in a game in the 80's or early 90's then Kobe going off on a scrub team now.

[jambr380]

I basically agree with fwf's list and may even put Erving in there somewhere. Top 15 may be about right, but definitely the very back end. Obviously I am very biased and really don't like the guy, but I do love his attitude on the court even though he sucked as a teammate. His game helped spoil a lot of would-be good players in this league with a me-first attitude.

The 2010 finals make me question my own reality - that was absolutely devastating.