Author Topic: What are the Celtics trying to accomplish next year  (Read 7923 times)

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Re: What are the Celtics trying to accomplish next year
« Reply #15 on: May 22, 2015, 08:30:39 PM »

Offline Neurotic Guy

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If we are not spending money on a big free agent or two, I'd prefer to see Ainge dismantle most of this team and build up the team through high draft picks.

I wouldn't necessarily be against that, although it would make this past year feel like a total waste.

Dismantling this team would mean, what, though?

Trade Sullinger and Olynyk for unproven young bench guys and / or late 1st round picks. 

Dump Bradley for a 1st rounder (or, ideally, use him to move up in the draft). 

Trade IT for a pick or two. 

Give lots of playing time to the four or five rookies they draft this summer plus James Young and Smart. 

Look into trading away Zeller for a couple younger players with higher upside but no proven ability.


Dismantling what they have now isn't going to help you much besides ensuring that the team loses more games.  You're not going to get any superior future assets by trading away any of these guys.

It also might actually drive Stevens to consider a different coaching opportunity, since he seems to really want a consistent group that he can build over time.

Last year may have been a total waste.  Note that the bottom 4 teams got the top 4 picks.  Each of those picks nets that team a player with higher upside than any player on the C's.   The only chance that this year's performance wasn't a terrible mistake is if somehow the Danny turns some of the current players into valuable future assetts.  I know it's a terrible digression to go there, but how many of you would trade the 0-4 playoff series for Towns, Okafur, Mudiay, Russell, WCS or Winslow...?   2016 draft is our chance.  If Danny can't land Aldridge or Cousins he should go all-in on the draft.

Re: What are the Celtics trying to accomplish next year
« Reply #16 on: May 22, 2015, 08:32:49 PM »

Offline alewilliam789

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If we are not spending money on a big free agent or two, I'd prefer to see Ainge dismantle most of this team and build up the team through high draft picks.

I completely agree. No point to stick with mediocre talent and continue to get swept during the first round of the playoffs?? Shop Isaiah, see if we can trade up by giving up a moderate amount of players and picks including Sullinger, Bradley, Olynyk, and see what we can get out of Smart as a starting point guard. Draft players like Dekker, RHJ, Booker, Lyles, and Portis at 16 and take swings at Upshaw, Vaughn, Wood, Martin, or other high potential players late in the 1st.

Re: What are the Celtics trying to accomplish next year
« Reply #17 on: May 22, 2015, 08:39:40 PM »

Offline GC003332

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Continue building up the value of their younger guys around the league , don't take on any bad contracts unless there is an appealing asset attached to it.Let Ainge to continue to win all of his trades.
Patiently wait until Ainge can turn it into a legit difference maker or two or hopefully three.
Continue to stab those Nets Voodoo dolls.

Re: What are the Celtics trying to accomplish next year
« Reply #18 on: May 22, 2015, 09:15:12 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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We aren't getting out of the 1st round without at least a viable all-star on this roster.  It's not going to be easy to get one.  We might be tanking again next year. We overachieved to 40 wins.  Our success was so fragile.   I think we could very easily finish with less wins next season.  I don't look at this team and say "yeah, that's a playoff squad".  I don't have a lot of confidence in them.  It's like a 28 win squad that managed to win 40 somehow.

The 2014-15 Boston Celtics remind me of this cardboard plane:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaWy8NB39GI

Flew surprisingly well... you couldn't help but watch this hacky roster rack up the wins and cackle like a maniac at the lunacy of it all.   Great fun.  Fragile as heck.  You really gonna put your long-term faith in a cardboard plane?

Taping some more pieces of cardboard on that junk might make some incremental improvement, but it isn't going to solve the real issue with it... and there's a chance the extra cardboard will just weigh it down.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2015, 09:26:54 PM by LarBrd33 »

Re: What are the Celtics trying to accomplish next year
« Reply #19 on: May 22, 2015, 10:45:05 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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A surprisingly poignant analogy, but I agree totally.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: What are the Celtics trying to accomplish next year
« Reply #20 on: May 22, 2015, 11:01:01 PM »

Offline Rondo9

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We aren't getting out of the 1st round without at least a viable all-star on this roster.  It's not going to be easy to get one.  We might be tanking again next year. We overachieved to 40 wins.  Our success was so fragile.   I think we could very easily finish with less wins next season.  I don't look at this team and say "yeah, that's a playoff squad".  I don't have a lot of confidence in them.  It's like a 28 win squad that managed to win 40 somehow.

The 2014-15 Boston Celtics remind me of this cardboard plane:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaWy8NB39GI

Flew surprisingly well... you couldn't help but watch this hacky roster rack up the wins and cackle like a maniac at the lunacy of it all.   Great fun.  Fragile as heck.  You really gonna put your long-term faith in a cardboard plane?

Taping some more pieces of cardboard on that junk might make some incremental improvement, but it isn't going to solve the real issue with it... and there's a chance the extra cardboard will just weigh it down.

I think you should expect Danny and the Celtics to make moves this summer in order to stabilize the roster.

Re: What are the Celtics trying to accomplish next year
« Reply #21 on: May 22, 2015, 11:13:03 PM »

Offline GetLucky

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Next year the Celtics will be trying to win the NBA champioinship.

Re: What are the Celtics trying to accomplish next year
« Reply #22 on: May 22, 2015, 11:27:10 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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If we are not spending money on a big free agent or two, I'd prefer to see Ainge dismantle most of this team and build up the team through high draft picks.

I wouldn't necessarily be against that, although it would make this past year feel like a total waste.

Dismantling this team would mean, what, though?

Trade Sullinger and Olynyk for unproven young bench guys and / or late 1st round picks. 

Dump Bradley for a 1st rounder (or, ideally, use him to move up in the draft). 

Trade IT for a pick or two. 

Give lots of playing time to the four or five rookies they draft this summer plus James Young and Smart. 

Look into trading away Zeller for a couple younger players with higher upside but no proven ability.


Dismantling what they have now isn't going to help you much besides ensuring that the team loses more games.  You're not going to get any superior future assets by trading away any of these guys.

It also might actually drive Stevens to consider a different coaching opportunity, since he seems to really want a consistent group that he can build over time.

It gets the team a higher draft pick next year and the years after. That is the purpose.

To build team through multiple top 5 draft picks.

I very much disapprove of that plan.  The reality is that plan has shown to almost never work.

Outside of the Oklahoma City Thunder, I can't think of a single team from the current millenium that has made it as far as the NBA finals following the multiple top five draft picks method of rebuilding. 
DKC Seventy-Sixers:

PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
SF:  Giannis/J. Lamb/M. Kuzminskas
PF:  E. Ilyasova/J. Jerebko/R. Christmas
C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson

Re: What are the Celtics trying to accomplish next year
« Reply #23 on: May 22, 2015, 11:44:57 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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The paper plane analogy is good.  Or you could say it's like building a house out of popsicle sticks or something.

Technically impressive.  A great achievement of will and determination.  But there isn't a sound foundation for further construction here.
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
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Re: What are the Celtics trying to accomplish next year
« Reply #24 on: May 22, 2015, 11:49:24 PM »

Offline Boris Badenov

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It's the same thing we do every year, Kagey.

Try to take over the world!

TP.

Re: What are the Celtics trying to accomplish next year
« Reply #25 on: May 23, 2015, 12:02:11 AM »

Offline Boris Badenov

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Here, from the most sourcey of sources who are privy to Danny's master strategy, is the airtight plan Danny will pursue next year:

1. Be rumored as "in the mix to move into the top 5" leading up to the draft, then move down three spots in the draft, drafting someone who vaguely dissatisfies almost everyone while picking up a top-55-protected 2019 second rounder as compensation;
2. Be rumored as "willing to gamble" later in the draft, then draft a savvy four-year guy with no upside at pick 28, slotting him into our ever-growing stable of NBA 9th men;
3. Be rumored as "pursuing all top-tier free agents including Aldridge, Jordan, Monroe, etc." then sign Ekpe Udoh and Justin Hamilton to 2 year, $3 million deals;
4. Be rumored as "looking to make a big deadline move," then flip the Rondo TPE for another 9th man, a second rounder and another trade exception;
5. Have all of the above generate approximately 4 million thread-pages on CelticsBlog.

It's going to be quite a ride.

Re: What are the Celtics trying to accomplish next year
« Reply #26 on: May 23, 2015, 12:24:01 AM »

Offline Hemingway

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If we are not spending money on a big free agent or two, I'd prefer to see Ainge dismantle most of this team and build up the team through high draft picks.

I wouldn't necessarily be against that, although it would make this past year feel like a total waste.

Dismantling this team would mean, what, though?

Trade Sullinger and Olynyk for unproven young bench guys and / or late 1st round picks. 

Dump Bradley for a 1st rounder (or, ideally, use him to move up in the draft). 

Trade IT for a pick or two. 

Give lots of playing time to the four or five rookies they draft this summer plus James Young and Smart. 

Look into trading away Zeller for a couple younger players with higher upside but no proven ability.


Dismantling what they have now isn't going to help you much besides ensuring that the team loses more games.  You're not going to get any superior future assets by trading away any of these guys.

It also might actually drive Stevens to consider a different coaching opportunity, since he seems to really want a consistent group that he can build over time.

Last year may have been a total waste.  Note that the bottom 4 teams got the top 4 picks.  Each of those picks nets that team a player with higher upside than any player on the C's.   The only chance that this year's performance wasn't a terrible mistake is if somehow the Danny turns some of the current players into valuable future assetts.  I know it's a terrible digression to go there, but how many of you would trade the 0-4 playoff series for Towns, Okafur, Mudiay, Russell, WCS or Winslow...?   2016 draft is our chance.  If Danny can't land Aldridge or Cousins he should go all-in on the draft.

But what if a star now will agree to come here that otherwise wouldn't have? Plan A has got to be get 2 star FAs and be a top team again right away. It's a long shot, but winning at the end of last season made it go from a crasy long shot to a realistic long shot. That is something. Even if we don't get top guys, it could still be worthwhile if we can get a get a tier 2 guy instead of a tier 3 guy.

Re: What are the Celtics trying to accomplish next year
« Reply #27 on: May 23, 2015, 12:45:53 AM »

Offline Boris Badenov

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If we are not spending money on a big free agent or two, I'd prefer to see Ainge dismantle most of this team and build up the team through high draft picks.

I wouldn't necessarily be against that, although it would make this past year feel like a total waste.

Dismantling this team would mean, what, though?

Trade Sullinger and Olynyk for unproven young bench guys and / or late 1st round picks. 

Dump Bradley for a 1st rounder (or, ideally, use him to move up in the draft). 

Trade IT for a pick or two. 

Give lots of playing time to the four or five rookies they draft this summer plus James Young and Smart. 

Look into trading away Zeller for a couple younger players with higher upside but no proven ability.


Dismantling what they have now isn't going to help you much besides ensuring that the team loses more games.  You're not going to get any superior future assets by trading away any of these guys.

It also might actually drive Stevens to consider a different coaching opportunity, since he seems to really want a consistent group that he can build over time.

It gets the team a higher draft pick next year and the years after. That is the purpose.

To build team through multiple top 5 draft picks.

I very much disapprove of that plan.  The reality is that plan has shown to almost never work.

Outside of the Oklahoma City Thunder, I can't think of a single team from the current millenium that has made it as far as the NBA finals following the multiple top five draft picks method of rebuilding.

Every plan has "shown to almost never work." It's just math. One team wins and every other team loses. What's worse, a total of 9 teams have won the last THIRTY FIVE championships. This means that the vast majority of teams have struck out completely for nearly a third of a century.

So yeah, the teams that build through the draft almost always lose. The teams that pursue the "draft one star and sign two others" strategy almost always lose. The teams that pursue the "create cap room and sign top FAs" almost always lose. The teams that pursue the "balanced squad of almost-stars" strategy almost always lose. Almost everyone almost always loses.

Winning requires a phenomenal combination of front office skill and luck. But I don't think you can just cast aspersions on one strategy and say it's been proven worse than others.

(And for what it's worth, the majority of those 35 championships have been won by teams who drafted their best player rather than acquiring him via trade or FA).
« Last Edit: May 23, 2015, 01:35:28 AM by Boris Badenov »

Re: What are the Celtics trying to accomplish next year
« Reply #28 on: May 23, 2015, 12:49:56 AM »

Offline LooseCannon

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To build team through multiple top 5 draft picks.

I am really rooting hard for the Celtics to have zero top five draft picks of their own (acquiring another team's pick or a player who was drafted in the top five doesn't count) between now and the next championship banner.
"The worst thing that ever happened in sports was sports radio, and the internet is sports radio on steroids with lower IQs.” -- Brian Burke, former Toronto Maple Leafs senior adviser, at the 2013 MIT Sloan Sports Analytics Conference

Re: What are the Celtics trying to accomplish next year
« Reply #29 on: May 23, 2015, 04:27:02 AM »

Offline LilRip

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If we are not spending money on a big free agent or two, I'd prefer to see Ainge dismantle most of this team and build up the team through high draft picks.

I wouldn't necessarily be against that, although it would make this past year feel like a total waste.

Dismantling this team would mean, what, though?

Trade Sullinger and Olynyk for unproven young bench guys and / or late 1st round picks. 

Dump Bradley for a 1st rounder (or, ideally, use him to move up in the draft). 

Trade IT for a pick or two. 

Give lots of playing time to the four or five rookies they draft this summer plus James Young and Smart. 

Look into trading away Zeller for a couple younger players with higher upside but no proven ability.


Dismantling what they have now isn't going to help you much besides ensuring that the team loses more games.  You're not going to get any superior future assets by trading away any of these guys.

It also might actually drive Stevens to consider a different coaching opportunity, since he seems to really want a consistent group that he can build over time.

It gets the team a higher draft pick next year and the years after. That is the purpose.

To build team through multiple top 5 draft picks.

I very much disapprove of that plan.  The reality is that plan has shown to almost never work.

Outside of the Oklahoma City Thunder, I can't think of a single team from the current millenium that has made it as far as the NBA finals following the multiple top five draft picks method of rebuilding.

Every plan has "shown to almost never work." It's just math. One team wins and every other team loses. What's worse, a total of 9 teams have won the last THIRTY FIVE championships. This means that the vast majority of teams have struck out completely for nearly a third of a century.

So yeah, the teams that build through the draft almost always lose. The teams that pursue the "draft one star and sign two others" strategy almost always lose. The teams that pursue the "create cap room and sign top FAs" almost always lose. The teams that pursue the "balanced squad of almost-stars" strategy almost always lose. Almost everyone almost always loses.

Winning requires a phenomenal combination of front office skill and luck. But I don't think you can just cast aspersions on one strategy and say it's been proven worse than others.

(And for what it's worth, the majority of those 35 championships have been won by teams who drafted their best player rather than acquiring him via trade or FA).

As usual Boris, you're right on the money.

For reference: if we landed the first overall pick and he turned out to be a perennial all-star, managed to sign an MVP candidate from FA, had a defensive 1st teamer for a center, had a cast of solid bench players with one of them perennially in the conversation for 6MOY, and had a championship-level coach, we might win it all.

... or we might be the Clippers.
- LilRip