Author Topic: Why the Fascination in trading AB?  (Read 6292 times)

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Re: Why the Fascination in trading AB?
« Reply #15 on: May 22, 2015, 01:25:00 PM »

Offline KeepRondo

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AB is a strong role player on both ends of the floor who is skilled enough to start. He has what now seems like a good contract, and he is still pretty young. Many teams seem to have some interest in him. We have a team of role players, many of them good, most of them except for Bradley are free agents this summer. We need to start trading some of our role players in deals to get better caliber talent. That makes him a good trade asset.

Agreed.

For example, I could see Miami being pretty interested. AB's on decent money and could play with either Dragic or Wade. That's a tough 3-main rotation.

If Danny loves someone at #10, I'd be willing to move AB plus a pick to move up.
That might actually be a possibility. If WCS or Johnson is available, I would love this trade. I would even throw Sully in there if they needed more to take it.

Re: Why the Fascination in trading AB?
« Reply #16 on: May 22, 2015, 01:25:02 PM »

Offline pearljammer10

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He's not very good and he doesn't have a set position. He's like a guard version of Josh Smith. He's not that great on a bad or mediocre team where he is asked to play a bigger role but he can excel on a good team where that role is defined and he can focus on playing to his strengths.

Re: Why the Fascination in trading AB?
« Reply #17 on: May 22, 2015, 01:26:24 PM »

Offline MBunge

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As for who our 2-guard would be, that would be Smart—a.k.a. the guy whom many have pegged as our "point guard of the future" but who really is no such thing. He's only a point guard insofar as some people call him a point guard and are trying to make him into a point guard. Remember when the Cs tried to make Bradley a point guard?

Kyle Lowry was injured as a rookie.  As a 21-year-old 2nd year player, he averaged 9.6 pts on 43% from the field, 3.6 assists, 3 boards and 1.1 steals in 25.5 minutes a game.  And Lowry didn't score double figures in the NBA until he was 24.

As a 20-year-old rookie, Smart averaged 7.8 pts on 37% from the field, 3.1 assists, 3.3 boards and 1.5 steals in 27 minutes a game.

It might be fair to suggest Marcus is never going to be Chris Paul.  It's silly to say he's not an NBA point guard at all.

Mike

Re: Why the Fascination in trading AB?
« Reply #18 on: May 22, 2015, 01:34:36 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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Bradley is just OK.  There's a mismatch between his offensive position and his defensive position.

He's also assumed a larger role in the team's offense than he is probably best suited to play.

That said, he's a solid contributor at a weak position.  There are a number of teams that really could use competent defense and shooting at the SG position.

So, Bradley simultaneously is uninspiring as a core piece for a young team while also making sense as a trade asset.
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Re: Why the Fascination in trading AB?
« Reply #19 on: May 22, 2015, 01:43:04 PM »

Offline LGC88

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Exactly.
I imagine AB as our 3rd or 4th scoring option. He won't be a threat and will be deadly at the 3s. Less defense on him.

Re: Why the Fascination in trading AB?
« Reply #20 on: May 22, 2015, 02:12:47 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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I see a lot of people dying to trade AB. There was a rumor we could get pick 12 for him, or even 12 and Hood for him. Others are saying we should use him with pick 16 to move up to 8 or 9.... Why the fascination in trading him? I personally don't like him that much, but how is that worth it? If we trade him for #12, who will our 2 be.. James Young? It's too soon to judge Young but he could be a bust and last year showed he's nowhere near being ready to start, and I'm AGAINST starting IT because then he loses his value as a bench sparkplug. Why the fascination in trading him when the 2 is so hard to fill?
jmen788,

Bradley's not a bad player.  He's not a great player.  I still see him as someone who would be ideal off the bench.  A role player.  Here's some of reasons we entertain trading him.

 - He's tiny.  It was a problem when he shared a back court with Rondo.  He's point guard sized (6'2, 180).  He's just a little wittle wee thing.   Stick him next to Marcus Smart and it make some sense, because Smart is big enough to cover most SG's and Bradley can guard the PG's.   Bradley and Thomas next to each other is a gimmicky disaster waiting to happen.  It would give every team in the league a size advantage on us in the back court.  You'd basically turn every opposing guard into Dirk Nowitzki, because he'd have a half foot height advantage on either defender.  A lot of people want Thomas to start.  If Thomas starts, you have to move Bradley to the bench.  8 mil for a bench player is kinda iffy when we're a team that doesn't have a single star yet.  It's like spending a bunch of money on a stainless steel fridge before you've remodeled your kitchen.  It's nice to have, but who cares what it looks like when the rest of your kitchen is a dump.

- We have a pipe dream here where Boston adds to max-level stars this summer.  We can't do that dumping the salary of 2 of the following 3 players:  Wallace  (10 mil), Bradley (8 mil), Thomas (8 mil).   We only have 23 mil in cap space.  Max contracts run you about 20 mil.  The math just doesn't work unless we dump two of those guys.  Obviously, we'd have to give up a 1st to dump Wallace.   Most folks seem more interested in keeping Thomas than Bradley...   So you're going to see Bradley trade ideas as long as the "two max contract!" pipe dream continues.  23 mil in cap space currently.  Dump Wallace and you have 33 mil.  Still not enough.   Trade Bradley for #12 and you're looking at freeing up another 6 mil or so.    That puts you close to 40 mil in cap space... that puts you in position to call up Kevin Love and Marc Gasol and say, "Hey guys... split 40 mil and help us put a contender together here".   

- There's the dream that the guy we get with the draft pick will end up being better than Bradley anyways.   

- There's a thought that maybe Boston will target a guard with cap space... like Middleton.  Or perhaps target one in a trade... like SUlly for Staukas for example (pulled that one out of my butt).   Or some feel like James Young might be our long term solution there anyways.  All this leads to the belief that Bradley is expendable. 

Count me as one of he folks who would love to see us dump him for a draft pick.  Our focus needs to be on getting stars here.  Once we have a couple stars here, we can throw money at average players like Bradley to fill out the roster.  No point in building backwards.

Re: Why the Fascination in trading AB?
« Reply #21 on: May 22, 2015, 02:24:53 PM »

Offline littleteapot

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Whatever you think about if Bradley is currently over/underpaid, his contract is going to look amazing compared to any signing that happens this summer. I love Khris Middleton and would love to have him on the C's, but why would you dump Bradley to get room to overpay Middleton and a bunch of guys like him?
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Re: Why the Fascination in trading AB?
« Reply #22 on: May 22, 2015, 03:33:42 PM »

Offline lon3lytoaster

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Bradley is so bad as a guard in the NBA. He can't dribble, pass, finish or shoot (well enough) to be a starting SG on a good team.

His defense is 90% hype, too. Ball pressure is excellent but man and team wise leaves a lot to be desired. He's not Tony Allen. At all.

Re: Why the Fascination in trading AB?
« Reply #23 on: May 22, 2015, 04:05:44 PM »

Offline jmen788

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I see a lot of people dying to trade AB. There was a rumor we could get pick 12 for him, or even 12 and Hood for him. Others are saying we should use him with pick 16 to move up to 8 or 9.... Why the fascination in trading him? I personally don't like him that much, but how is that worth it? If we trade him for #12, who will our 2 be.. James Young? It's too soon to judge Young but he could be a bust and last year showed he's nowhere near being ready to start, and I'm AGAINST starting IT because then he loses his value as a bench sparkplug. Why the fascination in trading him when the 2 is so hard to fill?
jmen788,

Bradley's not a bad player.  He's not a great player.  I still see him as someone who would be ideal off the bench.  A role player.  Here's some of reasons we entertain trading him.

 - He's tiny.  It was a problem when he shared a back court with Rondo.  He's point guard sized (6'2, 180).  He's just a little wittle wee thing.   Stick him next to Marcus Smart and it make some sense, because Smart is big enough to cover most SG's and Bradley can guard the PG's.   Bradley and Thomas next to each other is a gimmicky disaster waiting to happen.  It would give every team in the league a size advantage on us in the back court.  You'd basically turn every opposing guard into Dirk Nowitzki, because he'd have a half foot height advantage on either defender.  A lot of people want Thomas to start.  If Thomas starts, you have to move Bradley to the bench.  8 mil for a bench player is kinda iffy when we're a team that doesn't have a single star yet.  It's like spending a bunch of money on a stainless steel fridge before you've remodeled your kitchen.  It's nice to have, but who cares what it looks like when the rest of your kitchen is a dump.

- We have a pipe dream here where Boston adds to max-level stars this summer.  We can't do that dumping the salary of 2 of the following 3 players:  Wallace  (10 mil), Bradley (8 mil), Thomas (8 mil).   We only have 23 mil in cap space.  Max contracts run you about 20 mil.  The math just doesn't work unless we dump two of those guys.  Obviously, we'd have to give up a 1st to dump Wallace.   Most folks seem more interested in keeping Thomas than Bradley...   So you're going to see Bradley trade ideas as long as the "two max contract!" pipe dream continues.  23 mil in cap space currently.  Dump Wallace and you have 33 mil.  Still not enough.   Trade Bradley for #12 and you're looking at freeing up another 6 mil or so.    That puts you close to 40 mil in cap space... that puts you in position to call up Kevin Love and Marc Gasol and say, "Hey guys... split 40 mil and help us put a contender together here".   

- There's the dream that the guy we get with the draft pick will end up being better than Bradley anyways.   

- There's a thought that maybe Boston will target a guard with cap space... like Middleton.  Or perhaps target one in a trade... like SUlly for Staukas for example (pulled that one out of my butt).   Or some feel like James Young might be our long term solution there anyways.  All this leads to the belief that Bradley is expendable. 

Count me as one of he folks who would love to see us dump him for a draft pick.  Our focus needs to be on getting stars here.  Once we have a couple stars here, we can throw money at average players like Bradley to fill out the roster.  No point in building backwards.

I get that, but let's say we could trade him for pick 12-- in the likely event that Myles Turner, WCS, Stanley Johnson, etc. are off the board, then any pick after that is not likely to be better than Bradley and not likely to be a star. If we package Bradley with pick 16 for number 8 it just seems like a huge overpay...

Re: Why the Fascination in trading AB?
« Reply #24 on: May 22, 2015, 04:06:05 PM »

Offline LGC88

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I see a lot of people dying to trade AB. There was a rumor we could get pick 12 for him, or even 12 and Hood for him. Others are saying we should use him with pick 16 to move up to 8 or 9.... Why the fascination in trading him? I personally don't like him that much, but how is that worth it? If we trade him for #12, who will our 2 be.. James Young? It's too soon to judge Young but he could be a bust and last year showed he's nowhere near being ready to start, and I'm AGAINST starting IT because then he loses his value as a bench sparkplug. Why the fascination in trading him when the 2 is so hard to fill?
jmen788,

Bradley's not a bad player.  He's not a great player.  I still see him as someone who would be ideal off the bench.  A role player.  Here's some of reasons we entertain trading him.

 - He's tiny.  It was a problem when he shared a back court with Rondo.  He's point guard sized (6'2, 180).  He's just a little wittle wee thing.   Stick him next to Marcus Smart and it make some sense, because Smart is big enough to cover most SG's and Bradley can guard the PG's.   Bradley and Thomas next to each other is a gimmicky disaster waiting to happen.  It would give every team in the league a size advantage on us in the back court.  You'd basically turn every opposing guard into Dirk Nowitzki, because he'd have a half foot height advantage on either defender.  A lot of people want Thomas to start.  If Thomas starts, you have to move Bradley to the bench.  8 mil for a bench player is kinda iffy when we're a team that doesn't have a single star yet.  It's like spending a bunch of money on a stainless steel fridge before you've remodeled your kitchen.  It's nice to have, but who cares what it looks like when the rest of your kitchen is a dump.

- We have a pipe dream here where Boston adds to max-level stars this summer.  We can't do that dumping the salary of 2 of the following 3 players:  Wallace  (10 mil), Bradley (8 mil), Thomas (8 mil).   We only have 23 mil in cap space.  Max contracts run you about 20 mil.  The math just doesn't work unless we dump two of those guys.  Obviously, we'd have to give up a 1st to dump Wallace.   Most folks seem more interested in keeping Thomas than Bradley...   So you're going to see Bradley trade ideas as long as the "two max contract!" pipe dream continues.  23 mil in cap space currently.  Dump Wallace and you have 33 mil.  Still not enough.   Trade Bradley for #12 and you're looking at freeing up another 6 mil or so.    That puts you close to 40 mil in cap space... that puts you in position to call up Kevin Love and Marc Gasol and say, "Hey guys... split 40 mil and help us put a contender together here".   

- There's the dream that the guy we get with the draft pick will end up being better than Bradley anyways.   

- There's a thought that maybe Boston will target a guard with cap space... like Middleton.  Or perhaps target one in a trade... like SUlly for Staukas for example (pulled that one out of my butt).   Or some feel like James Young might be our long term solution there anyways.  All this leads to the belief that Bradley is expendable. 

Count me as one of he folks who would love to see us dump him for a draft pick.  Our focus needs to be on getting stars here.  Once we have a couple stars here, we can throw money at average players like Bradley to fill out the roster.  No point in building backwards.

Yes LarBrd33, I agree with everything you said but one thing. His contract is cheap, looking in the future. I don't think we'll get equal player with that type of contracts. We might end up paying double for that range in 2 years. Tough decision DA have to make regarding AB. I guess that will all depends of which player we can get this summer.

Re: Why the Fascination in trading AB?
« Reply #25 on: May 22, 2015, 04:23:37 PM »

Offline rocknrollforyoursoul

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As for who our 2-guard would be, that would be Smart—a.k.a. the guy whom many have pegged as our "point guard of the future" but who really is no such thing. He's only a point guard insofar as some people call him a point guard and are trying to make him into a point guard. Remember when the Cs tried to make Bradley a point guard?

Kyle Lowry was injured as a rookie.  As a 21-year-old 2nd year player, he averaged 9.6 pts on 43% from the field, 3.6 assists, 3 boards and 1.1 steals in 25.5 minutes a game.  And Lowry didn't score double figures in the NBA until he was 24.

As a 20-year-old rookie, Smart averaged 7.8 pts on 37% from the field, 3.1 assists, 3.3 boards and 1.5 steals in 27 minutes a game.

It might be fair to suggest Marcus is never going to be Chris Paul.  It's silly to say he's not an NBA point guard at all.

Mike

I don't think it's silly. Anyone can be placed at the point guard position and therefore "be a point guard in the NBA," but that's different from actually being a true point guard (Bradley played some PG for the Cs, but he's not a PG). And I'd like the Cs to have a true point guard. 

And though there's some value in your comparison of Smart to Lowry, I think that value is more of the "he can get better" variety than "he'll actually become a legit PG" variety. Smart is highly unlikely to become another Chris Paul, and I also think he's not too likely to even become another Kyle Lowry, because Lowry strikes me as someone who's quicker than Smart and has far better scoring chops than Smart. If Ainge wants a legit PG, he needs to either draft or sign an actual PG, and stop taking "combo guards" and trying to make them into point guards. Just like he needs to stop trying to make short power forwards into centers.
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Re: Why the Fascination in trading AB?
« Reply #26 on: May 22, 2015, 04:30:11 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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I see a lot of people dying to trade AB. There was a rumor we could get pick 12 for him, or even 12 and Hood for him. Others are saying we should use him with pick 16 to move up to 8 or 9.... Why the fascination in trading him? I personally don't like him that much, but how is that worth it? If we trade him for #12, who will our 2 be.. James Young? It's too soon to judge Young but he could be a bust and last year showed he's nowhere near being ready to start, and I'm AGAINST starting IT because then he loses his value as a bench sparkplug. Why the fascination in trading him when the 2 is so hard to fill?

Bradley is a good role player, but there are a lot of limitations to his offensive game, and though he's still a good defender, he's less good at it now that he's expending more energy on offense.

As for who our 2-guard would be, that would be Smart—a.k.a. the guy whom many have pegged as our "point guard of the future" but who really is no such thing. He's only a point guard insofar as some people call him a point guard and are trying to make him into a point guard. Remember when the Cs tried to make Bradley a point guard? I see the Smart situation as being similar to that. Smart might be better than Bradley at dribbling and passing, but that's not saying much.

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Re: Why the Fascination in trading AB?
« Reply #27 on: May 22, 2015, 04:30:48 PM »

Offline Rosco917

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I like AB, he works hard and he's a good kid. However, he's not the answer at shooting guard. Too one demential on offense, and not reliable enough, too small, and hardly ever gets to the rim.
I think his up side is about used up. 

He has attributes that would make him a solid guy off the bench if he were affordable, number one, he defends very well, that in my book is enough to get him minutes, two, he finds a way to get open quickly, elevates well, and is not afraid to take the shot. He's capable of hitting two, three, four in a row. At times he gives good minutes.

Flip side of the coin...He gets starter money, if we can upgrade to a guy that can average 17-18 or more, still having up side, and play good D, we have to make the move.

I just can't see Bradley being the starting shooting guard on a finals team.


Re: Why the Fascination in trading AB?
« Reply #28 on: May 22, 2015, 05:04:56 PM »

Offline GreenWarrior

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I see a lot of people dying to trade AB. There was a rumor we could get pick 12 for him, or even 12 and Hood for him. Others are saying we should use him with pick 16 to move up to 8 or 9.... Why the fascination in trading him? I personally don't like him that much, but how is that worth it? If we trade him for #12, who will our 2 be.. James Young? It's too soon to judge Young but he could be a bust and last year showed he's nowhere near being ready to start, and I'm AGAINST starting IT because then he loses his value as a bench sparkplug. Why the fascination in trading him when the 2 is so hard to fill?

I agree using AB as part of a package to move up in the draft is a mistake...unless we could get like a top 2 pick, then i'd consider it.

but packaging picks and AB for some established talent i'd do in a heart beat. for those that forget go back and watch the series against the Cavs. that series alone will tell you all you need to know about Bradley.

Re: Why the Fascination in trading AB?
« Reply #29 on: May 22, 2015, 05:19:45 PM »

Offline WeMadeIt17

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While i like most on here love AB's work ethic and such he is best suited for coming off the bench. But he is paid like a starter right now and he isn't a starter on a contending team. Now i agree if we could get a lotto pick for his straight up, you do it.. It frees up some cap and gets another young piece to either move in a deal to get a star here or get a legit SG that can put the ball on the floor and finish at the rim.