Isaiah Thomas for the Knicks' pick?

[Celts Fan 508]

For that to happen, they'd probably have to whiff on several other potential trades before reluctantly trading. I've said all along I think NY would trade their pick, but what star is actually available for it right now? Divac made it pretty clear that DMC was out, and the only other potential "star-caliber" players that I can think of being available are Lawson and potentially Lowry.

When compared to those trades, IT, 16, and the Brooklyn 2016 pick for Calderon and #4 is probably one of the better ones they could get as of right now before any other potential star becomes available. IT is an excellent shooter for the Triangle, they could get a PF prospect at 16, and they'd actually have a pick next year, which could potentially end up being pretty good, too. If they're trying to win right now with Melo, they won't pick a rookie at #4. They'd still have cap space to try for free agents, too.

I still think their best option would be to trade Melo to LA for #2, but there's no way the glamorous NYK go that route.

Well, that and Phil Jackson is 70. He's not in this for a long rebuild. His goal is to put stars around Melo this summer and win another title or two.

Knicks should trade Melo for Julius Randle.   

Why for New York? -  They can build around Mudiay and Randle and have zillions of dollars in cap space to play with.

Why for LA?  -  They have Okafor and likely Kevin Love locked up... Jordan Clarkson and Kobe at the guards.   Melo would fit in nicely with that at SF.

LA isn't getting Melo without giving up their #2 pick, but I'm guessing they'd still give up Randle and #2 for Melo. They're in the same boat as NYK in trying to salvage the last few years of Kobe, and Kobe and Melo would theoretically be a good start to attracting other free agents there. Though, coincidentally, I think that would drive Love away, because both Kobe and Melo are ball-dominant scorers that would put him in the third seat again.

I could see a Randle, #2, and #27 for Melo and #4 work out well for both teams.  Phil probably wouldn't want to help out the Lakers and as pointed out above is 70 and is looking for a quick fix for the Knicks. 

[Beat LA]

Am I the only one who thinks that there's something karmically wrong with this idea, lol ?

I would love to see the Knicks reaction if on draft night they trade for Isaiah Thomas. lol

LOL.......5000 people puking at once.

Kind of like this, lol .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Phy3IwxiVE

Man they really wanted Steph.  This is one instance where you can go back and see Knicks fans reacting in the moment and it's not an actual overreaction.  They were spot on.  They missed a future MVP by a single pick.  They took Jordan Hill instead.  Ouchie.

The only team more p---ed at that video then the Knicks must be the T'Wolves.  Johnny Flynn the pick before Curry, bet they regret that one  <---- Understatement of the century

With that in mind, I think you'll enjoy both of these articles, lol -

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/you-realize-how-badly-the-t-wolves-screwed-up-the-2009-draft-right/

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/090625

[byennie]

I think if we offered IT, #16, #28 and a future 1st (and took back Calderon), it could at least start a conversation. IT helps now, the picks could be "NBA ready" choices this year for NYK, and they haven't mortgaged their future picking up an extra future pick. Two year of Thomas over Calderon is a big difference if you assume Calderon is a liability at this point in his career. Then they could get on with buying a very entertaining New York lineup such as

Monroe / Love / Anthony / Hardaway Jr. / Thomas
+ Early, 2x 1st rounders, veteran signings

[Ilikesports17]

Ive been trying to convince myself that the Knicks would accept this offer and heres how I did it:

The last 6 #4 picks:
Aaron Gordon
Cody Zeller
Dion Waiters
Tristan Thompson
Wesley Johnson
Tyreke Evans

I would argue that Isaiah is as good if not better than every player on that list right now.

Unfortunately, if you go back one more you pick #4 is Russell Westbrook and the year before him is Michael Conley. After that its Tyrus Thomas, another player who isnt as good as IT.

So when you trade IT for pick #4 you have to give the Knicks enough extra in the deal to outweigh the roughly 25% chance that they get Chris Paul or Mike Conley or Russel Westbrook.

[colincb]

For that to happen, they'd probably have to whiff on several other potential trades before reluctantly trading. I've said all along I think NY would trade their pick, but what star is actually available for it right now? Divac made it pretty clear that DMC was out, and the only other potential "star-caliber" players that I can think of being available are Lawson and potentially Lowry.

When compared to those trades, IT, 16, and the Brooklyn 2016 pick for Calderon and #4 is probably one of the better ones they could get as of right now before any other potential star becomes available. IT is an excellent shooter for the Triangle, they could get a PF prospect at 16, and they'd actually have a pick next year, which could potentially end up being pretty good, too. If they're trying to win right now with Melo, they won't pick a rookie at #4. They'd still have cap space to try for free agents, too.

I still think their best option would be to trade Melo to LA for #2, but there's no way the glamorous NYK go that route.

Well, that and Phil Jackson is 70. He's not in this for a long rebuild. His goal is to put stars around Melo this summer and win another title or two.

Knicks should trade Melo for Julius Randle.   

Why for New York? -  They can build around Mudiay and Randle and have zillions of dollars in cap space to play with.

Why for LA?  -  They have Okafor and likely Kevin Love locked up... Jordan Clarkson and Kobe at the guards.   Melo would fit in nicely with that at SF.

NYK would have to take a lot of crappy players and contracts back to make your trade work (or Kobe). Knicks say no without hesitation either way.

The OP's idea doesn't work either though I don't doubt that IT has raised his value considerably since he came to BOS.  High draft picks are always overvalued. Last year's #4 got you Gordon and #5 got you Exum.  Mudiay, Russell, or maybe the Euros are the BPA there, but none are as strong a candidate as the top two picks.

I wouldn't be giving IT and a couple of firsts for anyone likely to be at 4 myself, and especially the two Americans guards, but that won't stop the madness because high picks after the top tier are always overvalued. Better crapshoot than mid-rounders, but there's much to say in favor of having a lot of good picks. In that regard, Tankathon has our picks this year valued as the 6th best package and I'd rather trade into the 6-10 range if Danny sees value there.

http://www.tankathon.com/power_rankings

[colincb]

SNAFU

[Celts Fan 508]

Am I the only one who thinks that there's something karmically wrong with this idea, lol ?

I would love to see the Knicks reaction if on draft night they trade for Isaiah Thomas. lol

LOL.......5000 people puking at once.

Kind of like this, lol .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Phy3IwxiVE

Man they really wanted Steph.  This is one instance where you can go back and see Knicks fans reacting in the moment and it's not an actual overreaction.  They were spot on.  They missed a future MVP by a single pick.  They took Jordan Hill instead.  Ouchie.

The only team more p---ed at that video then the Knicks must be the T'Wolves.  Johnny Flynn the pick before Curry, bet they regret that one  <---- Understatement of the century

With that in mind, I think you'll enjoy both of these articles, lol -

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/you-realize-how-badly-the-t-wolves-screwed-up-the-2009-draft-right/

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/090625

TP for the links, those were hilarious.

[tazzmaniac]

For that to happen, they'd probably have to whiff on several other potential trades before reluctantly trading. I've said all along I think NY would trade their pick, but what star is actually available for it right now? Divac made it pretty clear that DMC was out, and the only other potential "star-caliber" players that I can think of being available are Lawson and potentially Lowry.

When compared to those trades, IT, 16, and the Brooklyn 2016 pick for Calderon and #4 is probably one of the better ones they could get as of right now before any other potential star becomes available. IT is an excellent shooter for the Triangle, they could get a PF prospect at 16, and they'd actually have a pick next year, which could potentially end up being pretty good, too. If they're trying to win right now with Melo, they won't pick a rookie at #4. They'd still have cap space to try for free agents, too.

I still think their best option would be to trade Melo to LA for #2, but there's no way the glamorous NYK go that route.

Well, that and Phil Jackson is 70. He's not in this for a long rebuild. His goal is to put stars around Melo this summer and win another title or two.

Knicks should trade Melo for Julius Randle.   

Why for New York? -  They can build around Mudiay and Randle and have zillions of dollars in cap space to play with.

Why for LA?  -  They have Okafor and likely Kevin Love locked up... Jordan Clarkson and Kobe at the guards.   Melo would fit in nicely with that at SF.

NYK would have to take a lot of crappy players and contracts back to make your trade work (or Kobe). Knicks say no without hesitation either way.

The OP's idea doesn't work either though I don't doubt that IT has raised his value considerably since he came to BOS.  High draft picks are always overvalued. Last year's #4 got you Gordon and #5 got you Exum.  Mudiay, Russell, or maybe the Euros are the BPA there, but none are as strong a candidate as the top two picks.

I wouldn't be giving IT and a couple of firsts for anyone likely to be at 4 myself, and especially the two Americans guards, but that won't stop the madness because high picks after the top tier are always overvalued. Better crapshoot than mid-rounders, but there's much to say in favor of having a lot of good picks. In that regard, Tankathon has our picks this year valued as the 6th best package and I'd rather trade into the 6-10 range if Danny sees value there.

http://www.tankathon.com/power_rankings

High draft picks are not over valued.  Top 10 picks have a much better success rate than those outside the top 10.   Top 10 rookie contracts are also relatively cheap.  If you draft well, you get great value during the rookie contract and are almost certain to resign the player to their second contract.  If you draft a complete bust, it hurts but you can dump the player after his 2nd season.  In contrast, a significant trade or free agency bust has much more negative impact on a team.   

[SparzWizard]

I think I'd do it lol.

Get a 4th pick and draft a top SF or a PF/C guy.

Then sign Ty Lawson. Bam. Lol.

[BleedGreen1989]

I'm amazed this thread has gone on this long.

Isaiah Thomas is not getting you a top-5 pick. Stop the madness.

Go post this on any non-Celtics forum and see the reaction.

[positivitize]

I'd do IT4, 2016 Brooklyn Pick, 2016 Mavs Pick, and 16 for 4 + Calderon.

I want Justise.

[Rondo9]

I'm amazed this thread has gone on this long.

Isaiah Thomas is not getting you a top-5 pick. Stop the madness.

Go post this on any non-Celtics forum and see the reaction.

I think most of these people know that already.

[Kuberski33]

I'm amazed this thread has gone on this long.

Isaiah Thomas is not getting you a top-5 pick. Stop the madness.

Go post this on any non-Celtics forum and see the reaction.

Madness it is.  Anyone who can be shut down in a first round playoff series isn't worth a lottery pick.  You're hoping for a future All Star when you're drafting that high.  Imagine the reaction in NYC if Jackson made a deal like that?

[crimson_stallion]

I'm actually not sure about this...I think people undervalue how much impact Thomas has on this team.

I know his defense is a negative, but his offensive is positive enough that overall he's still a net positive when he's on the court.

If you look at our roster, we don't have a lot of guys who actually are net positives for us.  Sully.  Olynyk.  Smart.  Thomas.  I think that's the full list?

Right now we're a playoff team - maybe a bad playoff team. but still a playoff team.  If we lose one of only 4 'plus' players that are on our roster, in return for a rookie (that's always some degree of a risk) then will we still be a playoff team?

How many players actually give a net positive impact in their first season in the league?  How many guys taken top 5 (in your average draft) end up becoming as good as, or better than, Thomas is now?

I'd say maybe 2 or 3 out of the top 5 on average will probably end up good starters.  That's what - a 40%-60% chance of getting a guy as good as Thomas?

Thomas helps us now, and his ablity to score in bunches off the bench (he's a top 10-15 scorer in the NBA) is huge for us, not actually as easy to replace as you may think.  He's also young, and he's on an outstanding value contract - he's barely making more than 'Rookie Contract' money.

Might seem like a no brainier at first glance, but as you look deeper...big risk.  Lots to lose, but also lots to potentially gain.  High risk, high reward move.

I'm Danny and finally have this team winning some games, not sure if I take that type of gamble.

[Beat LA]

Saying Isiah's defense is a negative is a pretty big understatement, imo.  Is he a good player?  Yes, but he also happens to be a volume shooter who often plays out of control and is pretty selfish, to be honest, especially for a point guard.