Poll: Olynyk Will Explode in year 3 Just like college.

[crimson_stallion]

I think this is an under-selling of Bird.  First, he had size. Pretty big for a 3.

That's true. He was a 6'9" small forward, pretty big in those days. 

Kelly Olynyk is a 7'0" PF - that's pretty big, no?

Describing him as not having physical talent (athleticism) really depends on how you look at athleticism. 

I never said he didn't have physical talent / athleticism - he was a professional athlete, so of course he had some degree of physical gifts.  I'm just saying he didn't have elite athleticism or physical gifts - he was no Erving / Jordan / Wilkins level of athlete.  He was just a pretty standard NBA level athlete.

You could say the same for Olynyk.  You couldn't play basketball in the NBA without being a pretty athletic individual - I'm sure he's got better athleticism then most people posting in this thread.  He's just not an elite athlete by NBA standards - he's got enough athleticism to get the job done. 

Bird was not  bbiq alone.  He had ridiculous coordination and body control.  His shooting mechanics were magnificent but what was amazing was how fluidly he got his body in position to make accurate shots.  To me, that's athleticism.

To me, that's skill.  We may have to agree to disagree. 

Then again, I think Olynyk has much of that too, just not to the same degree as bird.  He seems to have pretty good body control (finishes very well around the basket, even with contact). Does a good job of sliding to the right spot to take charges, draw fouls, etc. 

Oh and anybody who knows will tell you that Bird actually never had textbook shooting mechanics...he used to shoot the ball from behind his head.  His shot would make any 'shooting mechanic' obsessionsist cringe.  But however he shot it didn't matter, because he made them.  Same kinda deal with Olynyk.

As I said I'm not saying that Olynyk is half the player Bird is, but he has a lot of the same skills...just obviously to a far lesser degree.

He was off the charts skilled -- AND had great bbiq.   Not sure I could say the same for KO yet on either count.

I think you absolutely can.  I'd like to see a list of NBA Power Forwards who are more skilled overall (shooting, passing, ball handling, scoring inside/out, positional defence, taking charges, etc, etc) and have better BBIQ than Olynyk does.

There will be some, but I think you'll find the list isn't as long as you think.

Olynyk has exceptional basketball IQ and an exceptional skill level.

[Beat LA]

Olynyk will absolutely explode if they send him to the D League. However, if Olynyk plays in the NBA he will not explode, as any normal human being would know, because he is not a very good player. I guess a thread had to be created to determine that Olynyk is not a good player despite the fact that no sane person would ever suggest he will be a good player.

Here I sit, insane and abnormal, raving and drooling all over my computer.

You and I need to get checked in the Psych Ward.

I still believe people are still upset that Kelly chosen over Giannis, It's like if Anige chose Bowie over Jordan.

And Giannis has shown us so much star power so far - I mean his stats over his first two seasons are just certain "superstar in the making" numbers...

This year he averaged 12.7 points, 6.7 rebounds, 2.6 assists, 0.9 steals and 1.0 blocks.  Wow! 

Last year he averaged 6.8 points, 4.4 rebounds, 1.9 assists, 0.8 steals and 0.8 blocks.  Amazing!

But we all know he's a prospect, so he's must not be playing huge minutes.  Lets adjust them for per-36 and see those Lebron-like numbers he's REALLY putting up:

14.6 points, 7.7 rebounds, 2.9 assists, 1.0 steals, 1.2 blocks

Oh...ok maybe not Lebron stats then.  But hey, that's all not even taking to account his amazing shooting skills, I mean what did he shoot from three this year???  Oh...only 15.9%?

Hmm...but he's long, he's athletic and he's 20 years old so he's certain to become a superstar, right?  I mean EVERYBODY who is long, athletic and 20 years old goes on to become a superstar one day...right?

 

I just wonder what all the haters are going to say if, 10 years from now, Kelly Olynyk is still a better player than Giannis...because we all know he's a better player right now, and you'd have to be drunk to suggest otherwise.

Well, I'm not drunk, and Giannis has always been better than KO.  I think you'd have to be drunk to suggest the opposite, quite frankly, but to each his own.  Do you really think that KO will still be in the league in ten years?  He'll be 34/35 by then, and if he's bad at moving his feet now...

As for those ten players who are better right now than him from said draft?  No problem.  Just going on the order in which they were selected - Oladipo, Otto Porter (he really had a breakout postseason), Noel, that white rapper (ask Larbrd33 about him, ahaha ) CJ McCollum, Man Crush Wednesday , Stephen Adams (admittedly, I'm not a fan, but a lot of people on here like him, and at least he can guard his position, lol ), Shabazz Muhammad (go look at his numbers, and game log, especially, if you don't believe me), Giannis, Gorgui Dieng, Solomon Hill (look at his stats and videos from this year), Tim Hardaway Jr., Rudy Gobert, and you could probably make a case for Schrodinger's Cat (sarcasm), as well as Mason Plumlee (again, not a fan, haha , but people on here seem to like him), and even the undrafted Robert Covington had an excellent year. 

I guess that we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one, and that's okay . What bugs me the most, though, is that we actually traded up to get him, and the guy who Danny took at 16, Lucas Nogueira, hasn't even played a game in the league, yet, although, in fairness, I don't know if Dallas requested that we take him for them as a part of the trade.

Sidebar - could we at least bring Glen Rice Jr. to camp or something?  He's played really well in the d and summer leagues, he just couldn't get the playing time with Washington.  It couldn't hurt, right?  He's also a free agent, btw.

[Beat LA]

Olynyk will absolutely explode if they send him to the D League. However, if Olynyk plays in the NBA he will not explode, as any normal human being would know, because he is not a very good player. I guess a thread had to be created to determine that Olynyk is not a good player despite the fact that no sane person would ever suggest he will be a good player.

yet, as shown through boatloads of data and statistics by numerous posters here, olly is an above average nba player in offense. that is crystal clear.

what is also interesting is that his defense, as shown by stats, is not bad, perhaps in the ball park of average.

however you stack it up and whatever the pre-existing emotional preference, olly is not a bad nba player. he will not be an all star, but i do believe he will find a good career as a starter on a poor team, or a  good bench player on a good team.

The other noticeable difference between the two is that Giannis is 20, while KO is already 24, and that's important here when analyzing how much more Olynyk can grow, if he even does, lol .  GA is also a starter, going against the toughest wings in the league, while Kelly just didn't cut it as a starter.  For pretty much the entire year. *facepalm*

As for his defense, the numbers might say one thing, but I seem to recall him being stuck on the bench in the playoffs because he was that bad, out there, on that end.  Giannis also had a 25 point, 12 rebound effort, 6 of which were offensive, in a playoff game against the Bulls, while KO's best postseason game was in game 1, coming off the bench, for 12 points, 2 rebounds, lol , an assist, a steal, and 2 blocks in 18:27.  Oh yeah, and 4 fouls, which he repeated in game 2, along with a nonexistent offensive outing, I might add . Why, Danny, why, haha ?

[Boris Badenov]

I think this is an under-selling of Bird.  First, he had size. Pretty big for a 3.

That's true. He was a 6'9" small forward, pretty big in those days. 

Kelly Olynyk is a 7'0" PF - that's pretty big, no?

Describing him as not having physical talent (athleticism) really depends on how you look at athleticism. 

I never said he didn't have physical talent / athleticism - he was a professional athlete, so of course he had some degree of physical gifts.  I'm just saying he didn't have elite athleticism or physical gifts - he was no Erving / Jordan / Wilkins level of athlete.  He was just a pretty standard NBA level athlete.

You could say the same for Olynyk.  You couldn't play basketball in the NBA without being a pretty athletic individual - I'm sure he's got better athleticism then most people posting in this thread.  He's just not an elite athlete by NBA standards - he's got enough athleticism to get the job done. 

Bird was not  bbiq alone.  He had ridiculous coordination and body control.  His shooting mechanics were magnificent but what was amazing was how fluidly he got his body in position to make accurate shots.  To me, that's athleticism.

To me, that's skill.  We may have to agree to disagree. 

Then again, I think Olynyk has much of that too, just not to the same degree as bird.  He seems to have pretty good body control (finishes very well around the basket, even with contact). Does a good job of sliding to the right spot to take charges, draw fouls, etc. 

Oh and anybody who knows will tell you that Bird actually never had textbook shooting mechanics...he used to shoot the ball from behind his head.  His shot would make any 'shooting mechanic' obsessionsist cringe.  But however he shot it didn't matter, because he made them.  Same kinda deal with Olynyk.

As I said I'm not saying that Olynyk is half the player Bird is, but he has a lot of the same skills...just obviously to a far lesser degree.

He was off the charts skilled -- AND had great bbiq.   Not sure I could say the same for KO yet on either count.

I think you absolutely can.  I'd like to see a list of NBA Power Forwards who are more skilled overall (shooting, passing, ball handling, scoring inside/out, positional defence, taking charges, etc, etc) and have better BBIQ than Olynyk does.

There will be some, but I think you'll find the list isn't as long as you think.

Olynyk has exceptional basketball IQ and an exceptional skill level.

Not to be picky, but you've somehow managed to quote me when I didn't say any of those things:

I think this is an under-selling of Bird.  First, he had size. Pretty big for a 3.
  Describing him as not having physical talent (athleticism) really depends on how you look at athleticism.  Bird was not  bbiq alone.  He had ridiculous coordination and body control.  His shooting mechanics were magnificent but what was amazing was how fluidly he got his body in position to make accurate shots.  To me, that's athleticism.  He was off the charts skilled -- AND had great bbiq.   Not sure I could say the same for KO yet on either count.

[crimson_stallion]

Well, I'm not drunk, and Giannis has always been better than KO.  I think you'd have to be drunk to suggest the opposite, quite frankly, but to each his own. 

Ok, in what ways (other than pure physical factors - length, athleticism, etc) is Giannis better than Olynyk?

ORPM
Kelly: +1.80
Giannis: -0.63

DRPM
Kelly: +1.71
Giannis: +1.51

Total RPM
Kelly: +3.51 (35/474 in the league)
Giannis: +0.88 (114/474 in the league)

So if KO has more impact on his team offensively AND defensively...how is Giannis better?

At the end of the day, the NBA is all about winning.  When it comes to contributing to team wins, Kelly Olynyk ranks in the top 7% of all NBA players, while Giannis ranks in the top 25%.  That's a VERY big difference.

Giannis might be a better prospect right now, but Kelly is the better player.  If Boston had Giannis instead of Olynyk, we probably never would have made the playoffs this year.

Do you really think that KO will still be in the league in ten years?  He'll be 34/35 by then, and if he's bad at moving his feet now...

Yes.  I'm about as confident about that as I am about Giannis still being in the league by then. 

As for the other guys you listed...

Oladipo
ORPM: +1.28
DRPM: -1.59
RPM: -0.31
Better than Olynyk: Maybe - In terms of stats yes, in terms of impact no

Otto Porter
ORPM: +1.85
DRPM: -0.58
RPM: +1.27
Better than Olynyk: No, not in terms of impact or pure stats

Noel
ORPM: -4.85
DRPM: +3.36
RPM: -1.49
Better than Olynyk: Maybe - in terms of stats yes, in terms of impact no

CJ McCollum
ORPM: +0.46
DRPM: +0.89
RPM: +1.35
Better than Olynyy: No, not in terms of impact or stats

Stephen Adams
ORPM: -2.72
DRPM: +1.54
RPM: -1.18
Better than Olynyk: Maybe - in terms of stats yes, in terms of impact no

Shabazz Muhammad
ORPM: +0.59
DRPM: -2.57
RPM: -1.98
Better than Olynyk: Maybe - in terms of stats yes, in terms of impact no

Giannis
ORPM: -0.63
DRPM: +1.51
RPM: +0.88
Better than Olynyk: Maybe - in terms of stats yes, in terms of impact no

Gorgui Dieng
ORPM: -1.44
DRPM: +0.63
RPM: -0.81
Better than Olynyk: Maybe - in terms of stats close close, but in terms of impact no

Solomon Hill
ORPM: -0.69
DRPM: -1.36
RPM: -2.05
Better than Olynyk: No, not in terms of stats or impact

Tim Hardaway Jr
ORPM: -0.42
DRPM: -3.38
RPM: -3.8
Better than Olynyk: No, not in terms of stats or impact

Rudy Gobert
ORPM: -1.66
DRPM: +3.62
RPM: +1.96
Better than Olynyk: Maybe - in terms of stats yes, but in terms of impact no

Schroeder
ORPM: -0.67
DRPM: -2.42
RPM: -3.09
Better than Olynyk: No, not in terms of stats or impact

Mason Plumlee
ORPM: -0.33
DRPM: -0.30
RPM: -0.63
Better than Olynyk: Maybe - in terms of stats yes, but in terms of impact no

Robert Covington
ORPM: +2.08
DRPM: +0.04
RPM: +2.12
Better than Olynyk: Maybe - in terms of stats close, but in terms of impact no

So out of all the players you listed:

* Not one of them can match/exceed Olynyk's impact on team success

* Only three of them (Giannis, Gobert, Covington) can claim to have stats as good as or better than Olynyk, while also having a positive impact on team success

* Only two of the (McCollum and Covington) make their team better on both the offensive and defensive end of the floor

* Only 9 of them have stats on par with (or better than) Olynyk, regardless of team impact

It's also worth noting that many of the players that are dominant on one end of the floor (e.g. Noel) are a complete liability on the other end of the floor.

Olynyk has put up good stats considering the minutes his played (and yes, I'm aware those minutes are limited by his foul problems) and has had a significant positive impact on his teams success on both ends of the floor.

Believe me, Danny could have done a lot worse.

[vjcsmoke]

Do you think using a lot of smiley faces makes your argument more persuasive?
I'm just going to go with the facts and look at the production of each player this past season.

Giannis

FG % .491
3P % .159
FT % .741
eFG % .496

PPG 12.7
APG 2.6
RPG 6.7
MPG 31.4

Source NBA Reference:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/antetgi01.html

Kelly Olynyk
FG % .475
3P % .349
FT % .684
eFG % .533

PPG 9.4
APG 1.7
RPG 4.7
MPG 22.2

Source:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/o/olynyke01.html

I dunno.  The stats and production appear pretty comparable, especially since Giannis is playing nearly 50% more minutes per game.  I just don't see what the big deal is.  I liked Giannis in the draft. but we went a different direction.  I'm not unhappy with Olynyk.  I think he poses different matchup problems on the floor as a stretch 4.

The Celtics just need to focus on making a major move for a star player right now.  Cousins tops my wishlist.  If we can land him, we can attract some premier free agents to complete the squad, and Brady Stevens will finally have the talent to do some damage in the playoffs.

[crimson_stallion]

Not to be picky, but you've somehow managed to quote me when I didn't say any of those things:

Corrected

[LilRip]

If Danny could acquire GA for KO, I'm guessing he'll do it. Meanwhile, I can't see the Bucks GM trading Giannis for KO. Only on CB is KO more valuable than Giannis.

[crimson_stallion]

If Danny could acquire GA for KO, I'm guessing he'll do it. Meanwhile, I can't see the Bucks GM trading Giannis for KO. Only on CB is KO more valuable than Giannis.

That's because, again, of GA's perceived upside.

Emphasis on perceived.

GM's in this league have a tendency to always give preference to the guy who is the youngest with the greatest physical abilities, even if that player isn't the most skilled.  They do this because of the hope that said play will one day learn to make the most of those abilities to one day become an utterly dominant star.

Sometimes, in scenarios such as with DeAndre Jordan and Paul George) that does indeed prove to be the case.  In many other scenarios (such as Thomas Robinson and JaVale McGee) that never happens.

On the other hand teams tend to pass on guys who are very skilled, but not especially physically gifted - the assumption being that there are limits as to how dominant that player can be.  In some cases that's also true, but in other cases (such as Kevin Love and Dirk Nowitzki) those guys end up becoming max contract players.

What you say is true - most GM's of young teams would probably take GA over KO right now, and that's because of the aforementioned perceived upside.  That doesn't however mean that 5 years from now, GA will be the better player.  Or in fact, that he's the better player right now.

[crimson_stallion]

The other noticeable difference between the two is that Giannis is 20, while KO is already 24, and that's important here when analyzing how much more Olynyk can grow, if he even does, lol . 

That's true, but that argument is a double-edged sword.

Giannis is younger and so yes, he has more time do develop.  But he's also less skilled (i.e. more raw) and so he needs to do more developing.  His three point shot, for starters, is completely non-existent.  As in, it makes Rondo's look good.  As a small forward in this league it's hard to ever take that next level without some form of outside shot, and it might take him 2-3 years to develop one...if he ever does.   He can't move to PF either despite his size, because he is way too skinny and completely lacking strength..that limits his versatility.  Will he ever put on the type of strength needed to be able to defend NBA Power Forwards?  Questionable.  That limits him to being a Small Forward who can't shoot threes, which thus far in his career makes him pretty limited. Just sag off him defensively and you're taken away half his offense.

Olynyk is older, but he already has a very well rounded set of skills for his position.  He can score inside the paint (an excellent 68% FG inside 3 feet) and he's a dangerous shooter from three.  In fact he's a scoring threat pretty much anywhere on the court.  He can get to the basket if you run at him, and he can hit the three if you sag off him.  He can shot over most power forwards and has a mobility advantage over most centers.  He actually runs and finishes surprisingly well in transition.  He gets to the line at a respectable (if not outstanding) rate and is a decent free throw shooter.  He's a very good passer for a PF.  He's not a shot blocker, but he's a good positional defender and very good at taking charges (much like big baby was).  He's already got a very well rounded set of skills, so he doesn't need to 'reinvent the wheel'.  All he really needs to do is get the fouls down (which he will in time) and that alone will be enough to make him a good NBA starter.   

Giannis also had a 25 point, 12 rebound effort, 6 of which were offensive, in a playoff game against the Bulls

What about the other games where he had 12 (4-13 shooting), 6 (2-11 shooting), 10 (3-7 shooting), 11 (5-12 shooting) and 5 (2-6 shooting)?

Yes, my friend...in 6 playoff games Giannis averaged 11.5 Points on 36% shooting, in 33.5 minutes.  Marvellous numbers. 

Olynyk only averaged 4.5 points and 1.3 rebounds in the playoffs, but he also only played 13 MPG due to (as you said) foul trouble.  At least when he was out there though, he shot well (53% FG, 50% 3PT).

We have already established Olynyk needs to improve his foul problems.   

[LilRip]

If Danny could acquire GA for KO, I'm guessing he'll do it. Meanwhile, I can't see the Bucks GM trading Giannis for KO. Only on CB is KO more valuable than Giannis.

That's because, again, of GA's perceived upside.

Emphasis on perceived.

GM's in this league have a tendency to always give preference to the guy who is the youngest with the greatest physical abilities, even if that player isn't the most skilled.  They do this because of the hope that said play will one day learn to make the most of those abilities to one day become an utterly dominant star.

Sometimes, in scenarios such as with DeAndre Jordan and Paul George) that does indeed prove to be the case.  In many other scenarios (such as Thomas Robinson and JaVale McGee) that never happens.

On the other hand teams tend to pass on guys who are very skilled, but not especially physically gifted - the assumption being that there are limits as to how dominant that player can be.  In some cases that's also true, but in other cases (such as Kevin Love and Dirk Nowitzki) those guys end up becoming max contract players.

What you say is true - most GM's of young teams would probably take GA over KO right now, and that's because of the aforementioned perceived upside.  That doesn't however mean that 5 years from now, GA will be the better player.  Or in fact, that he's the better player right now.

Hold on.

Did you just seriously insinuate in your previous post that you'd rather have KO than Oladipo?

So because KO has an RPM of 3.5, you actually value him more than a guy like Pau Gasol who only has an RPM of 2.3 or Jeff Teague who has an RPM of 1.9? So would the Bulls be better off having traded him for Cody Zeller (4.3) and would the Hawks much rather have George Hill (3.7) instead?

Shun me for being a non-believer but I guess I don't really believe that last year, Hedo Turkoglu (0.45) was more defensively impactful than Lebron James (0.43).

[SCeltic34]

Olynyk will absolutely explode if they send him to the D League. However, if Olynyk plays in the NBA he will not explode, as any normal human being would know, because he is not a very good player. I guess a thread had to be created to determine that Olynyk is not a good player despite the fact that no sane person would ever suggest he will be a good player.

Here I sit, insane and abnormal, raving and drooling all over my computer.

You and I need to get checked in the Psych Ward.

I still believe people are still upset that Kelly chosen over Giannis, It's like if Anige chose Bowie over Jordan.

And Giannis has shown us so much star power so far - I mean his stats over his first two seasons are just certain "superstar in the making" numbers...

This year he averaged 12.7 points, 6.7 rebounds, 2.6 assists, 0.9 steals and 1.0 blocks.  Wow! 

Last year he averaged 6.8 points, 4.4 rebounds, 1.9 assists, 0.8 steals and 0.8 blocks.  Amazing!

But we all know he's a prospect, so he's must not be playing huge minutes.  Lets adjust them for per-36 and see those Lebron-like numbers he's REALLY putting up:

14.6 points, 7.7 rebounds, 2.9 assists, 1.0 steals, 1.2 blocks

Oh...ok maybe not Lebron stats then.  But hey, that's all not even taking to account his amazing shooting skills, I mean what did he shoot from three this year???  Oh...only 15.9%?

Hmm...but he's long, he's athletic and he's 20 years old so he's certain to become a superstar, right?  I mean EVERYBODY who is long, athletic and 20 years old goes on to become a superstar one day...right?

 

I just wonder what all the haters are going to say if, 10 years from now, Kelly Olynyk is still a better player than Giannis...because we all know he's a better player right now, and you'd have to be drunk to suggest otherwise.

Well, I'm not drunk, and Giannis has always been better than KO.  I think you'd have to be drunk to suggest the opposite, quite frankly, but to each his own.  Do you really think that KO will still be in the league in ten years?  He'll be 34/35 by then, and if he's bad at moving his feet now...

As for those ten players who are better right now than him from said draft?  No problem.  Just going on the order in which they were selected - Oladipo, Otto Porter (he really had a breakout postseason), Noel, that white rapper (ask Larbrd33 about him, ahaha ) CJ McCollum, Man Crush Wednesday , Stephen Adams (admittedly, I'm not a fan, but a lot of people on here like him, and at least he can guard his position, lol ), Shabazz Muhammad (go look at his numbers, and game log, especially, if you don't believe me), Giannis, Gorgui Dieng, Solomon Hill (look at his stats and videos from this year), Tim Hardaway Jr., Rudy Gobert, and you could probably make a case for Schrodinger's Cat (sarcasm), as well as Mason Plumlee (again, not a fan, haha , but people on here seem to like him), and even the undrafted Robert Covington had an excellent year. 

I guess that we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one, and that's okay . What bugs me the most, though, is that we actually traded up to get him, and the guy who Danny took at 16, Lucas Nogueira, hasn't even played a game in the league, yet, although, in fairness, I don't know if Dallas requested that we take him for them as a part of the trade.

Sidebar - could we at least bring Glen Rice Jr. to camp or something?  He's played really well in the d and summer leagues, he just couldn't get the playing time with Washington.  It couldn't hurt, right?  He's also a free agent, btw.

I don't understand why you're so fixated on Danny trading two second rounders to Dallas to move up from 16 to 13.  The reason Danny did this was because Utah - who were going to pick at 14 - was supposedly in love with Olynyk's game after Olynyk had been killing workouts and draining 3's left and right.  At the same time, Dallas didn't want to commit salary to their first round pick.  Danny took advantage of a great opportunity to get the player he coveted for a mere price of two second rounders.  That's a great GM move.

KO is frustrating to watch at times.  But aside from Rudy Gobert, who was passed on 26 times before finally being drafted, and possibly Giannis (who is still largely unproven and was a pick based on potential, as pointed out above terrifically by crimson), there isn't one player past 13 that I'd rather have than KO.  Not Schroeder, not Dieng, not Plumlee, not Hardaway Jr.  KO is 7 feet tall and has a unique skill set, terrific offensive versatility, and high basketball IQ.  That alone is good value at the 13th pick in a weak draft.

It was a good draft pick, period.

[Celtics4ever]

KO is frustrating to watch at times.  But aside from Rudy Gobert, who was passed on 26 times before finally being drafted, and possibly Giannis (who is still largely unproven and was a pick based on potential, as pointed out above terrifically by crimson), there isn't one player past 13 that I'd rather have than KO.  Not Schroeder, not Dieng, not Plumlee, not Hardaway J

This could be why your posting here and not working in a front office, perhaps?

[SCeltic34]

KO is frustrating to watch at times.  But aside from Rudy Gobert, who was passed on 26 times before finally being drafted, and possibly Giannis (who is still largely unproven and was a pick based on potential, as pointed out above terrifically by crimson), there isn't one player past 13 that I'd rather have than KO.  Not Schroeder, not Dieng, not Plumlee, not Hardaway J

This could be why your posting here and not working in a front office, perhaps?

It's more due to the fact that I've never wanted a front office job

[Beat LA]

If Danny could acquire GA for KO, I'm guessing he'll do it. Meanwhile, I can't see the Bucks GM trading Giannis for KO. Only on CB is KO more valuable than Giannis.

That's because, again, of GA's perceived upside.

Emphasis on perceived.

GM's in this league have a tendency to always give preference to the guy who is the youngest with the greatest physical abilities, even if that player isn't the most skilled.  They do this because of the hope that said play will one day learn to make the most of those abilities to one day become an utterly dominant star.

Sometimes, in scenarios such as with DeAndre Jordan and Paul George) that does indeed prove to be the case.  In many other scenarios (such as Thomas Robinson and JaVale McGee) that never happens.

On the other hand teams tend to pass on guys who are very skilled, but not especially physically gifted - the assumption being that there are limits as to how dominant that player can be.  In some cases that's also true, but in other cases (such as Kevin Love and Dirk Nowitzki) those guys end up becoming max contract players.

What you say is true - most GM's of young teams would probably take GA over KO right now, and that's because of the aforementioned perceived upside.  That doesn't however mean that 5 years from now, GA will be the better player.  Or in fact, that he's the better player right now.

Hold on.

Did you just seriously insinuate in your previous post that you'd rather have KO than Oladipo?

So because KO has an RPM of 3.5, you actually value him more than a guy like Pau Gasol who only has an RPM of 2.3 or Jeff Teague who has an RPM of 1.9? So would the Bulls be better off having traded him for Cody Zeller (4.3) and would the Hawks much rather have George Hill (3.7) instead?

Shun me for being a non-believer but I guess I don't really believe that last year, Hedo Turkoglu (0.45) was more defensively impactful than Lebron James (0.43).

Ding, ding, ding - we have a winner, and I couldn't have said it better myself, TP.  I think people are looking at the numbers too much instead of just watching the guys play, and when you do it's immediately obvious as to who is the better player, imo, and for those of you saying that Giannis isn't nearly as skilled as Olynyk, well, again, I think you need to watch some tape.  The only thing KO has on GA is shooting, imo.  Giannis is an excellent to great passer, good shot blocker and defender, as well as a post player, which was supposed to be one of Olynyk's selling points.  You can try to say that that was never the case, but it was in fact mentioned as part of his offensive ability by our very own Kevin O'Connor on this site -

http://www.celticsblog.com/2013/6/28/4475646/in-depth-scouting-report-of-boston-celtics-draft-pick-kelly-olynyk-gonzaga-analysis-first-13-scoring

Here are some highlights -

Offense Overview

Kelly Olynyk is one of the most NBA-ready big men in the 2013 NBA Draft class. He has a very good repertoire of post moves and is exceptional finishing at the rim. His soft hands and decisive movements after receiving a pass contribute to his high success rate. Olynyk is quite a unique player considering his upbringing as a point guard. His guard skills mean he has very good ball handling ability (with both hands), so he is very good getting to the basket from the perimeter. From outside he shows beautiful touch on his jumper and has the potential to extend his range to three-point land.

Defense Overview

Olynyk's lack of athleticism really hurts him on defense. He doesn't have the muscle or length to defend the post at a high level and his slow side-to-side speed limits him drastically in the pick-and-roll or any other time he is out on the perimeter. Olynyk's lack of strength also hurts him when rebounding, since he is bound to get pushed around for better positioning. Olynyk is not a shot blocker but has very good basket awareness and does an adequate job at protecting the rim.

Full Analysis

Athleticism/Intangibles

Kelly Olynyk has very good straight-line speed, making him a threat in transition offense. Olynyk grew up playing point guard until his junior year of high school, so he possesses elite instincts for a big man. He has a lot of the intangibles that a point guard has when running the floor. He knows where to be and what the best passing lane is for the ball handler, putting himself in a perfect position for a pass.

Other than his speed, Olynyk is not a very athletic player. Even when moving side to side, Olynyk loses a lot of the agility that makes him special on the offensive end. He gets beat in the pick-and-roll and lacks the length to make up for it. With only a 6'10" wingspan, Olynyk is one of the few players in this draft that have a shorter wingspan than height.

Kelly doesn't have the greatest strength, making him vulnerable to getting outrebounded or bodied on the post, but he does bring a very high motor to both ends of the floor. Olynyk himself admits that he is not an athletic guy, so he has to play 150 percent in order to stay with some of the great athletic talents playing in the NBA.

Post/Inside Offense

Speaking of Olynyk's athleticism, you might think that this would deter his effectiveness on the post, but I don't find that to be the case. Kelly shows the savvy of an NBA veteran when it comes to his post moves. No, Olynyk doesn't have an amazing go-to move like Dirk Nowitzki's one-foot fadeaway or Kevin Garnett's side-to-side shimmy, but Olynyk does have a nice, solid arsenal of moves that he puts to good use.

Rebounding

Even though Olynyk stands at 7-feet tall, he is not a very good rebounder. Olynyk does a solid job of boxing out but doesn't have the length to grab the ball at its apex. He gets outleaped by more athletic players and outmuscled by stronger ones. It's hard to imagine Olynyk ever improves drastically, but he still has the size had the ability to average 5-to-7 rebounds per game from the power forward position. While those numbers aren't ideal, they are forgivable if he is on a team next to a true center that would swallow up most rebounds anyway.

Post/Inside Defense

Kelly Olynyk plays with a lot of energy on the post and does a good job of denying his man deep post-positioning, but if the ball manages to get in deep, he's in trouble. Olynyk lacks the strength to deal with stronger players and the length to defend longer, more athletic big men. With only a 6'10" wingspan, Olynyk will be facing off against many players with arms 4-to-5 inches longer than him. Kelly will battle until the possession changes or the play is blown dead, but he simply doesn't have the ability to compete at a high level on the post.

Perimeter/Pick and Roll Defense

Even though Kelly has amazing straight-line speed for a man his size, he struggles very much when moving laterally. As a result, Olynyk has very hard time defending on the perimeter. Even when Kelly Olynyk has good footwork, he still gets burnt.  Check out this clip to see Olynyk with pretty solid technique (good base and slides feet) but still get blown by. It's not amazing defense by any means but this is a good example to show that even when he does something right, he still might not be athletic enough to make the play. My concern is when he has bad footwork on the perimeter. On the next few clips from that last link, Olynyk has very bad technique when matched up against his assignment. From the start, he doesn't get set with a wide base, leaving himself vulnerable to dribble penetration. Once the drive begins, he "crosses his feet" and doesn't slide with his opponent. Olynyk must learn to stay more balanced, keep his man in front of him, and always establish a wide base, which would allow him to slide more quickly.

When playing in the pick-and-roll, Kelly Olynyk hedges far too hard and lacks the foot speed to get back to his man. This is a place where Olynyk could get completely exposed at the beginning of his NBA career. If Olynyk is on the floor an NBA team can put him in the pick-and-roll, forcing a switch with a guard. When you bring Olynyk out on the perimeter he is at his most vulnerable since he currently lacks the athleticism and basketball awareness to play effectively in this type of situation.

Overall, I am extremely happy with the selection. I think the Boston Celtics drafted a guy that can play right away and be a spark off the bench. Looking ahead, he has the upside to be a starting power forward. He can stretch the floor but play down on the post as well. I think he's best suited for a sixth man type of role since that would lessen any of his weaknesses on the defensive end, but the future is bright for Kelly Olynyk and the Boston Celtics.

It's been two years, guys.  Where are these mythical post moves, because I'm still waiting.  Meanwhile, if you want to see someone with a post game, look at these moves by Giannis.  When has KO ever done anything to remotely resemble them?  Look at the part starting at 1:06.  Not only does he get the offensive rebound (I know he's taller than Tony Snell, but still), but he immediately recognizes the mismatch, takes Snell (who is a very good defender, btw) down on the block, gives him first a fake to the middle, only to spin backwards ala Carlos Boozer and finish with his left hand.  That's outstanding, and it's also something that you won't see in a box score or metric. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZ-AJ6YDlvo

Additionally, he blocks Pau and Noah in this game, rebounds in traffic, runs the floor, and guards multiple positions.  Were his shooting numbers good?  No, absolutely not, but he's also facing the best defense in the league in Chicago, it was his first postseason, and even when he wasn't hitting, Kidd kept him out there because of his length, intelligence, athleticism, passing, rebounding, and defense, whereas KO barely saw the court in games 3 and 4 against the Cavs because 1). He was picking up fouls at an alarming rate, and 2). He was simply too much of a defensive liability for Stevens to keep him out there, especially when he's not scoring, because he's not going to contribute in other areas, on either end of the court.

In the end, it's not all about numbers - use your eyes, people, lol , and that part about KO doing a solid job at boxing out is hilarious, imo.

Btw, I also don't understand why Dallas wouldn't just keep their pick in the first place and pay whoever they selected.  A rookie contract is hardly going to eat into your cap space.  The whole thing just seems ridiculous to me, but whatever.