PF - Jordan Mickey vs Kentucky highlights

[Eddie20]

Eddie20, why don't also post WCS weaknesses on the offensive end

WCS has true center size. Mickey is a center trapped in a SF's body. If WCS were Mickey's size I would hammer him just the same. WCS has no problem finishing and he projects to be extremely effective diving to the basket on lobs following high screen and roll action. Surely you aren't suggesting WCS and Mickey are on the same level as prospects, right?

[Tr1boy]

What do you expect Mickey to do playing out of position Eddie20?  He was playing center when he is really a pf.   If you saw him operate against the Kentucky trees, you know he can score against bigger players using his quickness/explosiveness.  in addition work in progress jump shot.  But offense is not his calling card. Not even offensive rebounding. It's his defense that is his specialty

I never said to get mickey for his offense.   Why don't you post something about his defense, shot blocking . See what the rave is about

So let me get this straight, you want us to get a player who you acknowledge is undersized for the PF spot, isn't good offensively, struggles scoring inside vs length, can't stretch the floor, is not a great rebounder (this is actually a skill that translates well at the next level), and his main skill is shot blocking (which doesn't historically translate well at the next level for a player his height)?

You also mentioned him going up against centers. You do realize that most college centers are equal to PF's in terms of size. He struggled rebounding and scoring against college centers. How is he going to better those numbers against bigger, stronger, and much more talented than the ones you admitted he struggled against.

What's happening is that you started these threads on Mickey and prematurely started raving about him. When there are questions about his shortcomings you refute that simply to stick to your initial thoughts. I give you credit for standing by your guy, you've done with Aaron Gordon too, but it doesn't mean having blinders on won't lead you astray.

what?? being so so at offensive rebounding does not mean you can't rebound. Mickey is a very good defensive rebounder.    If you don't believe it, watch the vs Kentucky highlight clip. The way he boxes out, reaches for rebounds against WCS , Towns.  Also this one rebounding situation where Towns was going over the top to grab the D rebound and instead Mickey deflect s the ball off the backboard and grabs the rebound.

He is a versatile defender, good rebounder and elite shot blocker (from standstill, covering ground, weakside help while not losing track of his man, timing). 

Offensively as bad as you say he is he still avg 15.5 a game.   Look at Tristan Thompson. How many pts does he score per game?  But he does make an impact doesn't he??

Mickey for all the negativity you and others pint point was runner up for SEC player of the year.  He held his own against Kentucky trees (very few were able to do) .  You think Towns and WCS will be underneath big name centers in the NBA?  they are the next generation stars. Towns at least is considered

[Tr1boy]

Eddie20, why don't also post WCS weaknesses on the offensive end

WCS has true center size. Mickey is a center trapped in a SF's body. If WCS were Mickey's size I would hammer him just the same. WCS has no problem finishing and he projects to be extremely effective diving to the basket on lobs following high screen and roll action. Surely you aren't suggesting WCS and Mickey are on the same level as prospects, right?

they are not just because of height as the difference.  Mickey actually has a higher iq and has a better shot blocking skills (you can verify this by stats too).  In addition is more skilled on the offensive end (look at stats again).   

[Tr1boy]

can  you watch the LSU vs Kentucky game instead of putting Mickey in the same category as the "other" 6'8 super college shot blocking wonders.

Not even your  preferred prospects (portis, turner) held their own against Towns nor Wcs nor Johnson at times

[Eddie20]

What do you expect Mickey to do playing out of position Eddie20?  He was playing center when he is really a pf.   If you saw him operate against the Kentucky trees, you know he can score against bigger players using his quickness/explosiveness.  in addition work in progress jump shot.  But offense is not his calling card. Not even offensive rebounding. It's his defense that is his specialty

I never said to get mickey for his offense.   Why don't you post something about his defense, shot blocking . See what the rave is about

So let me get this straight, you want us to get a player who you acknowledge is undersized for the PF spot, isn't good offensively, struggles scoring inside vs length, can't stretch the floor, is not a great rebounder (this is actually a skill that translates well at the next level), and his main skill is shot blocking (which doesn't historically translate well at the next level for a player his height)?

You also mentioned him going up against centers. You do realize that most college centers are equal to PF's in terms of size. He struggled rebounding and scoring against college centers. How is he going to better those numbers against bigger, stronger, and much more talented than the ones you admitted he struggled against.

What's happening is that you started these threads on Mickey and prematurely started raving about him. When there are questions about his shortcomings you refute that simply to stick to your initial thoughts. I give you credit for standing by your guy, you've done with Aaron Gordon too, but it doesn't mean having blinders on won't lead you astray.

what?? being so so at offensive rebounding does not mean you can't rebound. Mickey is a very good defensive rebounder.    If you don't believe it, watch the vs Kentucky highlight clip. The way he boxes out, reaches for rebounds against WCS , Towns.  Also this one rebounding situation where Towns was going over the top to grab the D rebound and instead Mickey deflect s the ball to the backboard and grabs the rebound.

He is a versatile defender, good rebounder and elite shot blocker (from standstill, covering ground, weakside help while not losing track of his man, timing). 

Offensively as bad as you say he is he still avg 15.5 a game.   Look at Tristan Thompson. How many pts does he score per game?  But he does make an impact doesn't he??

Mickey for all the negativity you and others pint point was runner up for SEC player of the year.  He held his own against Kentucky trees (very few were able to do) .  You think Towns and WCS will be underneath big name centers in the NBA?  they are the next generation stars. Towns at least is considered

He only grabbed 7 rebounds in 39 minutes vs Kentucky. You also say he's a "very good defensive rebounder", but the stats say otherwise.

D-Express

He's also just a decent defensive rebounder, grabbing 7.1 defensive rebounds per 40 minutes adjusted, which is unremarkable. His total rebounds of 10.4 per 40 minutes pace adjusted is just an average mark for power forwards in our top 100 and he will need to concentrate on this skill by using his aggressiveness and effort to fill a role at the next level.

His numbers are a little skewed overall because he played 35 MPG. So his scoring numbers might make you think he's a better scorer than he actually is especially when you compare it to players that averaged far less minutes.

[Tr1boy]

What do you expect Mickey to do playing out of position Eddie20?  He was playing center when he is really a pf.   If you saw him operate against the Kentucky trees, you know he can score against bigger players using his quickness/explosiveness.  in addition work in progress jump shot.  But offense is not his calling card. Not even offensive rebounding. It's his defense that is his specialty

I never said to get mickey for his offense.   Why don't you post something about his defense, shot blocking . See what the rave is about

So let me get this straight, you want us to get a player who you acknowledge is undersized for the PF spot, isn't good offensively, struggles scoring inside vs length, can't stretch the floor, is not a great rebounder (this is actually a skill that translates well at the next level), and his main skill is shot blocking (which doesn't historically translate well at the next level for a player his height)?

You also mentioned him going up against centers. You do realize that most college centers are equal to PF's in terms of size. He struggled rebounding and scoring against college centers. How is he going to better those numbers against bigger, stronger, and much more talented than the ones you admitted he struggled against.

What's happening is that you started these threads on Mickey and prematurely started raving about him. When there are questions about his shortcomings you refute that simply to stick to your initial thoughts. I give you credit for standing by your guy, you've done with Aaron Gordon too, but it doesn't mean having blinders on won't lead you astray.

what?? being so so at offensive rebounding does not mean you can't rebound. Mickey is a very good defensive rebounder.    If you don't believe it, watch the vs Kentucky highlight clip. The way he boxes out, reaches for rebounds against WCS , Towns.  Also this one rebounding situation where Towns was going over the top to grab the D rebound and instead Mickey deflect s the ball to the backboard and grabs the rebound.

He is a versatile defender, good rebounder and elite shot blocker (from standstill, covering ground, weakside help while not losing track of his man, timing). 

Offensively as bad as you say he is he still avg 15.5 a game.   Look at Tristan Thompson. How many pts does he score per game?  But he does make an impact doesn't he??

Mickey for all the negativity you and others pint point was runner up for SEC player of the year.  He held his own against Kentucky trees (very few were able to do) .  You think Towns and WCS will be underneath big name centers in the NBA?  they are the next generation stars. Towns at least is considered

He only grabbed 7 rebounds in 39 minutes vs Kentucky. You also say he's a "very good defensive rebounder", but the stats say otherwise.

D-Express

He's also just a decent defensive rebounder, grabbing 7.1 defensive rebounds per 40 minutes adjusted, which is unremarkable. His total rebounds of 10.4 per 40 minutes pace adjusted is just an average mark for power forwards in our top 100 and he will need to concentrate on this skill by using his aggressiveness and effort to fill a role at the next level.

His numbers are a little skewed overall because he played 35 MPG. So his scoring numbers might make you think he's a better scorer than he actually is especially when you compare it to players that averaged far less minutes.

nice. Just put out numbers instead of watching the actually game. 

Lets see, that game WCS only had 7 rebounds also.  What does D express have to say about this?

[Tr1boy]

We will have to agree to disagree. We will see who is right.

[Eddie20]

What do you expect Mickey to do playing out of position Eddie20?  He was playing center when he is really a pf.   If you saw him operate against the Kentucky trees, you know he can score against bigger players using his quickness/explosiveness.  in addition work in progress jump shot.  But offense is not his calling card. Not even offensive rebounding. It's his defense that is his specialty

I never said to get mickey for his offense.   Why don't you post something about his defense, shot blocking . See what the rave is about

So let me get this straight, you want us to get a player who you acknowledge is undersized for the PF spot, isn't good offensively, struggles scoring inside vs length, can't stretch the floor, is not a great rebounder (this is actually a skill that translates well at the next level), and his main skill is shot blocking (which doesn't historically translate well at the next level for a player his height)?

You also mentioned him going up against centers. You do realize that most college centers are equal to PF's in terms of size. He struggled rebounding and scoring against college centers. How is he going to better those numbers against bigger, stronger, and much more talented than the ones you admitted he struggled against.

What's happening is that you started these threads on Mickey and prematurely started raving about him. When there are questions about his shortcomings you refute that simply to stick to your initial thoughts. I give you credit for standing by your guy, you've done with Aaron Gordon too, but it doesn't mean having blinders on won't lead you astray.

what?? being so so at offensive rebounding does not mean you can't rebound. Mickey is a very good defensive rebounder.    If you don't believe it, watch the vs Kentucky highlight clip. The way he boxes out, reaches for rebounds against WCS , Towns.  Also this one rebounding situation where Towns was going over the top to grab the D rebound and instead Mickey deflect s the ball to the backboard and grabs the rebound.

He is a versatile defender, good rebounder and elite shot blocker (from standstill, covering ground, weakside help while not losing track of his man, timing). 

Offensively as bad as you say he is he still avg 15.5 a game.   Look at Tristan Thompson. How many pts does he score per game?  But he does make an impact doesn't he??

Mickey for all the negativity you and others pint point was runner up for SEC player of the year.  He held his own against Kentucky trees (very few were able to do) .  You think Towns and WCS will be underneath big name centers in the NBA?  they are the next generation stars. Towns at least is considered

He only grabbed 7 rebounds in 39 minutes vs Kentucky. You also say he's a "very good defensive rebounder", but the stats say otherwise.

D-Express

He's also just a decent defensive rebounder, grabbing 7.1 defensive rebounds per 40 minutes adjusted, which is unremarkable. His total rebounds of 10.4 per 40 minutes pace adjusted is just an average mark for power forwards in our top 100 and he will need to concentrate on this skill by using his aggressiveness and effort to fill a role at the next level.

His numbers are a little skewed overall because he played 35 MPG. So his scoring numbers might make you think he's a better scorer than he actually is especially when you compare it to players that averaged far less minutes.

nice. Just put out numbers instead of watching the actually game. 

Lets see, that game WCS only had 7 rebounds also.  What does D express have to say about this?

Yeah, WCS had the same amount of rebounds and 1 less point in 25% less minutes that game.

[Tr1boy]

how many pts did Kentucky win by??

IF it was not for Mickey and Martin ability to hang with the trees, LSU would of got killed

[Tr1boy]

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/team/_/id/96/kentucky-wildcats

Kentucky won only 3 close games last season not including the tourney. The rest were pretty much blowouts.  That's how dominant the trees were

[Eddie20]

I'm going to have to call you out a little in how you completely overrate "your guys" every year…

2012-Harkless and Barton

Harkless - Serious player, that has excellent height at 6'8. Can shoot the three but his bread and butter is being able to drive and pull up for mid range jumpers. Can rebound very well also. The two knocks on him is that he is a streaky outside shooter and if he gets restricted to drive to the middle for his pull ups, could struggle to score in other ways.

Barton - Out of the world athletically. Can twist his body and hang in the air, to make difficult shots/passes. Very quick, long arms. Can shoot threes well, likes to pass, loves to dunk. Will rebound. Honestly i'm not sure why every mock draft has him going late 1st/early 2nd. Huge weakness is that he is rail thin right now. To me , that is a weakness that can only improve with time unlike other qualities that can't change.

I personally like Barton a little more , but harkless has better size and shoots at a better fg rate.

Maybe just draft both. I wouldn't mind

2013-Burke

1. Magic - Burke = Still have him being chosen #1.  Just a combination of need, skills, clutch and near championship under his belt, will be too hard for the magic to pass up.
V.1 comment: Magic have talent all over the court. But need a leader, a player to put it all together. Can't get better than Burke who is also a pg

Burke on the other hand did everything possible to make himself #1 worthy. Yeah he is not that athletic and a little undersized, but so is Chris Paul. Lots of good pg's are undersized and i think the nba and fans are too enormed with oversized/overathletic guards these days. Bottom line is most cannot play the way Burke can. He basically carried Michigan on his back at times , and imagine what he can do being surrounded by better calibre players and vice versa??  Orl also needs a pg badly. Someone who can lead the team and make passes to their young but talented staff. Nelson is either done next year or coming off the bench.

2014- Gordon

I've been following Arizona team play this year. Kid is going to be an excellent nba player.  Putting aside that he does have some excellent skills, its his motor, iq and leaping ability that makes him a nice player.

Excellent passer and a team 1st player. Watching the clip above, definitely his leap is higher than most nba players today.

Blake Griffin comparisons are ok, except that, Blake Griffin has half the IQ.

[The One]

Really good debate...both triboy and eddie are informed and passionate...also respectful.

I enjoyed reading this thread.

[Tr1boy]

I'm going to have to call you out a little in how you completely overrate "your guys" every year…

2012-Harkless and Barton

Harkless - Serious player, that has excellent height at 6'8. Can shoot the three but his bread and butter is being able to drive and pull up for mid range jumpers. Can rebound very well also. The two knocks on him is that he is a streaky outside shooter and if he gets restricted to drive to the middle for his pull ups, could struggle to score in other ways.

Barton - Out of the world athletically. Can twist his body and hang in the air, to make difficult shots/passes. Very quick, long arms. Can shoot threes well, likes to pass, loves to dunk. Will rebound. Honestly i'm not sure why every mock draft has him going late 1st/early 2nd. Huge weakness is that he is rail thin right now. To me , that is a weakness that can only improve with time unlike other qualities that can't change.

I personally like Barton a little more , but harkless has better size and shoots at a better fg rate.

Maybe just draft both. I wouldn't mind

2013-Burke

1. Magic - Burke = Still have him being chosen #1.  Just a combination of need, skills, clutch and near championship under his belt, will be too hard for the magic to pass up.
V.1 comment: Magic have talent all over the court. But need a leader, a player to put it all together. Can't get better than Burke who is also a pg

Burke on the other hand did everything possible to make himself #1 worthy. Yeah he is not that athletic and a little undersized, but so is Chris Paul. Lots of good pg's are undersized and i think the nba and fans are too enormed with oversized/overathletic guards these days. Bottom line is most cannot play the way Burke can. He basically carried Michigan on his back at times , and imagine what he can do being surrounded by better calibre players and vice versa??  Orl also needs a pg badly. Someone who can lead the team and make passes to their young but talented staff. Nelson is either done next year or coming off the bench.

2014- Gordon

I've been following Arizona team play this year. Kid is going to be an excellent nba player.  Putting aside that he does have some excellent skills, its his motor, iq and leaping ability that makes him a nice player.

Excellent passer and a team 1st player. Watching the clip above, definitely his leap is higher than most nba players today.

Blake Griffin comparisons are ok, except that, Blake Griffin has half the IQ.

Im ok you posting those past reports. But the truth is Im more knowledable today then I was yesterday. I have given you details as to why Mickey is an exception (slightly undersized pf). Things i could not identify in detail if you asked about Barton in the past before the draft 

Some of those players like harkless, burke are still young. Too young to call them a bust.  Look at what happened to Crowder in a right system

Also i stand by what i wrote about Gordon.  He is only 19 and has barely played more than half a season.    Be a little more patient

[Evantime34]

I'm going to have to call you out a little in how you completely overrate "your guys" every year…

2012-Harkless and Barton

Harkless - Serious player, that has excellent height at 6'8. Can shoot the three but his bread and butter is being able to drive and pull up for mid range jumpers. Can rebound very well also. The two knocks on him is that he is a streaky outside shooter and if he gets restricted to drive to the middle for his pull ups, could struggle to score in other ways.

Barton - Out of the world athletically. Can twist his body and hang in the air, to make difficult shots/passes. Very quick, long arms. Can shoot threes well, likes to pass, loves to dunk. Will rebound. Honestly i'm not sure why every mock draft has him going late 1st/early 2nd. Huge weakness is that he is rail thin right now. To me , that is a weakness that can only improve with time unlike other qualities that can't change.

I personally like Barton a little more , but harkless has better size and shoots at a better fg rate.

Maybe just draft both. I wouldn't mind

2013-Burke

1. Magic - Burke = Still have him being chosen #1.  Just a combination of need, skills, clutch and near championship under his belt, will be too hard for the magic to pass up.
V.1 comment: Magic have talent all over the court. But need a leader, a player to put it all together. Can't get better than Burke who is also a pg

Burke on the other hand did everything possible to make himself #1 worthy. Yeah he is not that athletic and a little undersized, but so is Chris Paul. Lots of good pg's are undersized and i think the nba and fans are too enormed with oversized/overathletic guards these days. Bottom line is most cannot play the way Burke can. He basically carried Michigan on his back at times , and imagine what he can do being surrounded by better calibre players and vice versa??  Orl also needs a pg badly. Someone who can lead the team and make passes to their young but talented staff. Nelson is either done next year or coming off the bench.

2014- Gordon

I've been following Arizona team play this year. Kid is going to be an excellent nba player.  Putting aside that he does have some excellent skills, its his motor, iq and leaping ability that makes him a nice player.

Excellent passer and a team 1st player. Watching the clip above, definitely his leap is higher than most nba players today.

Blake Griffin comparisons are ok, except that, Blake Griffin has half the IQ.

Im ok you posting those past reports. But the truth is Im more knowledable today then I was yesterday. I have given you details as to why Mickey is an exception (slightly undersized pf). Things i could not identify in detail if you asked about Barton in the past before the draft 

Some of those players like harkless, burke are still young. Too young to call them a bust.  Look at what happened to Crowder in a right system

Also i stand by what i wrote about Gordon.  He is only 19 and has barely played more than half a season.    Be a little more patient

To be fair, if you look hard enough on Celticsblog, everyone will have said some things that turn out to be wrong in the future.

I wouldn't write off any of those guys yet either

[Tr1boy]

Really good debate...both triboy and eddie are informed and passionate...also respectful.

I enjoyed reading this thread.

Eddie20 wants the Celts to draft guys like Alexander that accomplished little in college, had issues with gifting(suspension), does not have very good lift , undersized pf that does not possess much perimeter/back to basket skills. Another thomas robinson calibre guy

I want a slightly undersized pf that is a versatile defender, explosive, has a 37 inch max vert, 7'3.5 wingspan and is also 240 pounds. Elite shot blocking skills

You want alexander and ko or sully and alexander or ko and mickey or sully and mickey on the court if it came down to it?