Deandre Jordan to get max; had falling out with CP3

[gpap]

I don't think you can afford in this league to give a max salary to a guy with those kinds of offensive deficiencies. He's 26 and not going to change. And despite his shot blocking, he's not an elite defender. He's a nice player who will get overpaid.

We have a draft coming up with the most center/rim protector prospects in quite a few years.

No thanks.

I'd rather have an establish superstar like DJ than roll the dice on unproven rookies.

[moiso]

so here's the question

is DeAndre offensively good because of CP3? or can he hold his own without CP3?

It wasn't Chris Paul that made Jordan a good player.  Some of it has to be Doc giving him a bigger role and demanding more.  The other thing is that it seemed that Blake Griffin set Jordan up for more easy baskets than Paul. 

[Who]

so here's the question

is DeAndre offensively good because of CP3? or can he hold his own without CP3?

It wasn't Chris Paul that made Jordan a good player.  Some of it has to be Doc giving him a bigger role and demanding more.  The other thing is that it seemed that Blake Griffin set Jordan up for more easy baskets than Paul.

CP3 assists to D.Jordan = 1.4 per game in regular season, 1.2 in playoffs
B.Griffin assists to D.Jordan = 1.0 per game in regular season, 1.3 in playoffs

Surprised it is so close to be honest. I see Griffin creating a lot for D.Jordan but I would have thought CP3 with all the time he spends on the ball and all the scoring opportunities he creates would've had a bigger advantage here.

[td450]

I don't think you can afford in this league to give a max salary to a guy with those kinds of offensive deficiencies. He's 26 and not going to change. And despite his shot blocking, he's not an elite defender. He's a nice player who will get overpaid.

We have a draft coming up with the most center/rim protector prospects in quite a few years.

No thanks.

I'd rather have an establish superstar like DJ than roll the dice on unproven rookies.

He's not anything close to a superstar, and we aren't rolling dice. We are spending a 1st round draft choice, which we have a boat load of. We can afford to be wrong.

Consider the fact that the Clippers, with two of the top eight or so players in the league and several other legit pieces around Jordan, didn't really come that close this year. No way they'd get by the Warriors. If Jordan is signed to a max, the Clippers have nothing to work with for years. Unless Griffin goes up another two levels, they never get to the finals.

He isn't a 3rd max guy on a championship level team. He therefore cannot get a max contract from us because that's our goal.

[chambers]

I don't think you can afford in this league to give a max salary to a guy with those kinds of offensive deficiencies. He's 26 and not going to change. And despite his shot blocking, he's not an elite defender. He's a nice player who will get overpaid.

We have a draft coming up with the most center/rim protector prospects in quite a few years.

No thanks.

I'd rather have an establish superstar like DJ than roll the dice on unproven rookies.

He's not anything close to a superstar, and we aren't rolling dice. We are spending a 1st round draft choice, which we have a boat load of. We can afford to be wrong.

Consider the fact that the Clippers, with two of the top eight or so players in the league and several other legit pieces around Jordan, didn't really come that close this year. No way they'd get by the Warriors. If Jordan is signed to a max, the Clippers have nothing to work with for years. Unless Griffin goes up another two levels, they never get to the finals.

He isn't a 3rd max guy on a championship level team. He therefore cannot get a max contract from us because that's our goal.

I don't agree.
His influence on the defensive end is enormous. His athleticism and ability to defend the pick and roll and alter shots is top 3 to 5 in the NBA. He's young, he's made of iron (never injured), and he's looking to take a bigger role as he reaches his prime.
He is a premier defensive anchor in the NBA. any max deal you sign him for now will be a bargain under the new cap.
He is a 100% MUST target free agent for us.

[td450]

I don't think you can afford in this league to give a max salary to a guy with those kinds of offensive deficiencies. He's 26 and not going to change. And despite his shot blocking, he's not an elite defender. He's a nice player who will get overpaid.

We have a draft coming up with the most center/rim protector prospects in quite a few years.

No thanks.

I'd rather have an establish superstar like DJ than roll the dice on unproven rookies.

He's not anything close to a superstar, and we aren't rolling dice. We are spending a 1st round draft choice, which we have a boat load of. We can afford to be wrong.

Consider the fact that the Clippers, with two of the top eight or so players in the league and several other legit pieces around Jordan, didn't really come that close this year. No way they'd get by the Warriors. If Jordan is signed to a max, the Clippers have nothing to work with for years. Unless Griffin goes up another two levels, they never get to the finals.

He isn't a 3rd max guy on a championship level team. He therefore cannot get a max contract from us because that's our goal.

I don't agree.
His influence on the defensive end is enormous. His athleticism and ability to defend the pick and roll and alter shots is top 3 to 5 in the NBA. He's young, he's made of iron (never injured), and he's looking to take a bigger role as he reaches his prime.
He is a premier defensive anchor in the NBA. any max deal you sign him for now will be a bargain under the new cap.
He is a 100% MUST target free agent for us.

What further proof do you need? He's in his prime. He's 26. He plays with two superstars and one of the league's better coaches and they didn't come close. It will be worse next year when you add in the Thunder. That is pretty clear evidence.

[D.o.s.]

Being one win away from the conference finals isn't close?

Any time you lose a series because Josh Smith gets hot from beyond the arc, I would say that "close" is exactly what you are.

[Endless Paradise]

Being one win away from the conference finals isn't close?

Any time you lose a series because Josh Smith gets hot from beyond the arc, I would say that "close" is exactly what you are.

Hell, forget one win away, they were literally a 19-point collapse away from the conference finals.

[D.o.s.]

It is a little disturbing that they weren't able to close out the series, of course, but it's not as if the Rockets are the Raptors or anything.

Taking the good with the bad, though, they were one epic Grizzlies collapse away from losing in the first round in 2012, so they've been on both sides of that and still haven't made it to the conference finals. I think it would be silly to treat the Clips as a title contender right now.

[jpotter33]

It is a little disturbing that they weren't able to close out the series, of course, but it's not as if the Rockets are the Raptors or anything.

Taking the good with the bad, though, they were one epic Grizzlies collapse away from losing in the first round in 2012, so they've been on both sides of that and still haven't made it to the conference finals. I think it would be silly to treat the Clips as a title contender right now.

The question will be if they can sustain this for another couple of years until the cap jumps up and they can actually improve their roster. I expect much of the same from them next year without much roster change, because they virtually have 0 assets to work with. It'll be the summer of 2016 that will get interesting for them, but by that time Paul will be 31 with an injury history. Didn't he tear his ACL early in his career, too?

[D.o.s.]

Correct, but CP3's game, I think the most out of the premiere point guards of today, is not very reliant on athleticism.

[GetLucky]

It is a little disturbing that they weren't able to close out the series, of course, but it's not as if the Rockets are the Raptors or anything.

Taking the good with the bad, though, they were one epic Grizzlies collapse away from losing in the first round in 2012, so they've been on both sides of that and still haven't made it to the conference finals. I think it would be silly to treat the Clips as a title contender right now.

The question will be if they can sustain this for another couple of years until the cap jumps up and they can actually improve their roster. I expect much of the same from them next year without much roster change, because they virtually have 0 assets to work with. It'll be the summer of 2016 that will get interesting for them, but by that time Paul will be 31 with an injury history. Didn't he tear his ACL early in his career, too?

He injured his meniscus and had it removed. That's why the "faster than everyone Chris Paul" that came out of Wake Forest is not the Chris Paul that you see today. That's also why he is an incredible injury risk. A knee injury without a meniscus is serious stuff. Many called Derrick Rose silly for having his removed instead of having another almost full-year recovery.

[Endless Paradise]

People called Rose silly for that? That's honestly news to me. I thought it was understood that removal was likely a better option for Rose since repeated repairs of the same meniscus would possibly have diminishing returns.

Basically, repair was the smart choice the first time around, but when he tore that same meniscus again, removal had its merits.

[Moranis]

so here's the question

is DeAndre offensively good because of CP3? or can he hold his own without CP3?

It wasn't Chris Paul that made Jordan a good player.  Some of it has to be Doc giving him a bigger role and demanding more.  The other thing is that it seemed that Blake Griffin set Jordan up for more easy baskets than Paul.

CP3 assists to D.Jordan = 1.4 per game in regular season, 1.2 in playoffs
B.Griffin assists to D.Jordan = 1.0 per game in regular season, 1.3 in playoffs

Surprised it is so close to be honest. I see Griffin creating a lot for D.Jordan but I would have thought CP3 with all the time he spends on the ball and all the scoring opportunities he creates would've had a bigger advantage here.

that actually makes sense given that when Griffin has the ball he is down low a lot of the time, so Jordan's man will be able to help on Griffin a lot, which then leaves Jordan open for a Griffin pass. 

[D.o.s.]

People called Rose silly for that? That's honestly news to me. I thought it was understood that removal was likely a better option for Rose since repeated repairs of the same meniscus would possibly have diminishing returns.

Basically, repair was the smart choice the first time around, but when he tore that same meniscus again, removal had its merits.

Removal turns you into Dwyane Wade, more or less.