Author Topic: Does the Clips pick + Bradley get us back in the top 20  (Read 7537 times)

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Re: Does the Clips pick + Bradley get us back in the top 20
« Reply #15 on: May 19, 2015, 07:43:49 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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I have heard that Utah likes him.

http://redsarmy.com/2015/04/03/would-you-trade-avery-bradley-for-utahs-lottery-pick/

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/pick-or-trade-what-should-the-jazz-do-to-make-the-leap/

All speculation, but possible, just improbable.   I still think Stevens would love to get his hands on Gordon again.


Re: Does the Clips pick + Bradley get us back in the top 20
« Reply #16 on: May 19, 2015, 08:45:21 AM »

Offline slamtheking

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If the opportunity was there, I'd do AB for Utah's pick and not think twice.  I really think AB has just about hit his ceiling -- good defender when dialed in and decent shooter coming off screens.  he's not a go-to player on offense nor is he as dialed in defensively as he was when he first came into the league. 

I'd look to move Smart to AB's spot in the line-up and use that pick to grab a SF/C prospect that I believe would serve us better than AB --> hopefully either Turner or Johnson. 

I'd consider a similar deal with OKC but their pick is further back that Utah's and I don't think the 2 guys I'd want would still be available.

Re: Does the Clips pick + Bradley get us back in the top 20
« Reply #17 on: May 19, 2015, 08:51:31 AM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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Bradley + 1st round pick just to get in the top 20 is a terrible move to say nothing of an overpay.

Re: Does the Clips pick + Bradley get us back in the top 20
« Reply #18 on: May 19, 2015, 09:02:23 AM »

Offline saltlover

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If the opportunity was there, I'd do AB for Utah's pick and not think twice.  I really think AB has just about hit his ceiling -- good defender when dialed in and decent shooter coming off screens.  he's not a go-to player on offense nor is he as dialed in defensively as he was when he first came into the league.

I'd look to move Smart to AB's spot in the line-up and use that pick to grab a SF/C prospect that I believe would serve us better than AB --> hopefully either Turner or Johnson. 

I'd consider a similar deal with OKC but their pick is further back that Utah's and I don't think the 2 guys I'd want would still be available.

I disagree with this.  It seems like whenever a point guard in the league mentions who they hate going against, Bradley's name pops up.  Bradley suffers from the loss of KG.  Teams run a lot of screens/pick actions to get their PGs free from AB.  KG helped with this in two ways.  Firstly, he let AB (and everyone else) know the screens were there, so they didn't run into a wall.  I can't count how many times AB has been decked by an opposing big, and after the play we see him or Stevens talking to Sully or Olynyk, but it seems at least once a game.  Secondly, KG could switch onto the guard enough to slow him down and give AB time to catch up.

If we acquire a true defensive anchor in the middle, like what Jordan is or what most everyone thinks Willie Cauley-Stein can become, I think you'll see the AB you remember.  KG was so important in letting everyone know defensively what was going on.  That freed perimeter defenders to focus only on their man in front of them, instead of keeping their heads on a swivel looking for that screen from a big.  Bass seems okay at the communication, but Olynyk especially has such a tough time figuring out where he's supposed to be defensively he can't help others know what's going on.

Re: Does the Clips pick + Bradley get us back in the top 20
« Reply #19 on: May 19, 2015, 09:30:43 AM »

Offline PhoSita

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I would guess Ainge is not trading Bradley by himself for anything less than a lottery pick, so yeah.
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Re: Does the Clips pick + Bradley get us back in the top 20
« Reply #20 on: May 19, 2015, 10:04:28 AM »

Offline slamtheking

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If the opportunity was there, I'd do AB for Utah's pick and not think twice.  I really think AB has just about hit his ceiling -- good defender when dialed in and decent shooter coming off screens.  he's not a go-to player on offense nor is he as dialed in defensively as he was when he first came into the league.

I'd look to move Smart to AB's spot in the line-up and use that pick to grab a SF/C prospect that I believe would serve us better than AB --> hopefully either Turner or Johnson. 

I'd consider a similar deal with OKC but their pick is further back that Utah's and I don't think the 2 guys I'd want would still be available.

I disagree with this.  It seems like whenever a point guard in the league mentions who they hate going against, Bradley's name pops up.  Bradley suffers from the loss of KG.  Teams run a lot of screens/pick actions to get their PGs free from AB.  KG helped with this in two ways.  Firstly, he let AB (and everyone else) know the screens were there, so they didn't run into a wall.  I can't count how many times AB has been decked by an opposing big, and after the play we see him or Stevens talking to Sully or Olynyk, but it seems at least once a game.  Secondly, KG could switch onto the guard enough to slow him down and give AB time to catch up.

If we acquire a true defensive anchor in the middle, like what Jordan is or what most everyone thinks Willie Cauley-Stein can become, I think you'll see the AB you remember.  KG was so important in letting everyone know defensively what was going on.  That freed perimeter defenders to focus only on their man in front of them, instead of keeping their heads on a swivel looking for that screen from a big.  Bass seems okay at the communication, but Olynyk especially has such a tough time figuring out where he's supposed to be defensively he can't help others know what's going on.
that may be but doesn't change my opinion he's pretty much hit his ceiling and that ceiling is a bench-quality guard. 

Re: Does the Clips pick + Bradley get us back in the top 20
« Reply #21 on: May 19, 2015, 02:53:37 PM »

Offline mef730

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Ainge had a chance to get a draft pick out of him at the trade deadline and refused to deal him.

Yeah, how about that, lol ;D? *facepalm*
Capela
Hairston
Bogdanovich
Wilcox
Huestis
Anderson

those are the last 6 picks of last years draft. Do you really believe any will even be half to player AB is? And that was considered a deep draft.

I like the end of the first round this year, but if our Clips pick turns into AB im ecstatic, and so is any reasonable fan.

Of the first round, yes, but not of the entire draft, which means that you're forgetting other guys who came in the second round, including a great and much more versatile defender than AB in KJ McDaniels, as well as Jordan Clarkson and Spencer Dinwiddie, to name a couple of other guys.  I'm not trying to be difficult, and I'm not trolling, btw, I'm really not, and I hope that we can get a great group of guys this year, but I'm not exactly getting my hopes up, lol ;D.

You guys are missing the point on Spencer Dinwiddie.  We absolutely, positively must draft him, so I can hear Tommy try to pronounce his last name.  I'm willing to use the #16 to make it happen.

Mike

Re: Does the Clips pick + Bradley get us back in the top 20
« Reply #22 on: May 19, 2015, 04:06:25 PM »

Offline Future Celtics Owner

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Everyone knows I want Bradley out (make room for Young) and because he has great value right now. Avery's contract is a huge deal and his talent on both ends makes him a great pick up for a team.

I'd trade Avery to get Myles Turner. Keep the 16th and draft Upshaw.

Bradley
« Reply #23 on: May 25, 2015, 12:18:50 AM »

Offline alewilliam789

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I agree with the posters above that say Bradley has hit his ceiling. He's undersized, he's an average shooter and above average defender, and he can't create his own shot efficiently. If we had a point guard that could create his own shot then I'd be all for keeping him around, but this combination of Smart and Bradley obviously isn't working because we had one of the worst offenses in the league.

I would use Bradley and Young with 16 to move up to 9 because it's been rumored that Charlotte has interest in Bradley who would be a very good fit with Walker who is adept at creating his own shot and finding others. Use Sullinger and 28 to move up for Lyles. Draft Johnson at 9. Sign Robin Lopez.

PG: Marcus Smart
SG: Jae Crowder
SF: Stanley Johnson
PF: Trey Lyles
C: Robin Lopez

Would be an extremely interesting young core to watch that would for sure bring some wins.





Re: Does the Clips pick + Bradley get us back in the top 20
« Reply #24 on: May 25, 2015, 12:39:21 AM »

Offline celticmania

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Celtics get 4th pick (Emmanuel Mudiay)
Knicks get Ty Lawson, 45th pick
Utah Jazz get Avery Bradley
Nuggets get 12th pick, 16th pick, Kelly Olynyk

Re: Bradley
« Reply #25 on: May 25, 2015, 01:57:22 AM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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I agree with the posters above that say Bradley has hit his ceiling. He's undersized, he's an average shooter and above average defender, and he can't create his own shot efficiently. If we had a point guard that could create his own shot then I'd be all for keeping him around, but this combination of Smart and Bradley obviously isn't working because we had one of the worst offenses in the league.

I would use Bradley and Young with 16 to move up to 9 because it's been rumored that Charlotte has interest in Bradley who would be a very good fit with Walker who is adept at creating his own shot and finding others. Use Sullinger and 28 to move up for Lyles. Draft Johnson at 9. Sign Robin Lopez.

PG: Marcus Smart
SG: Jae Crowder
SF: Stanley Johnson
PF: Trey Lyles
C: Robin Lopez

Would be an extremely interesting young core to watch that would for sure bring some wins.
I think this is a classic example of fans seeing the downside of our current players and falling in love with the potential of draft picks.

Trey lyles is an intriguing prospect with some nice tools but the odds are that he won't ever be as good as Sully. As for Johnson, he's one of my favorite players in the draft but you also have to realize that it's probably the most likely scenario that he does not end up being the best player from that trade. Avery Bradley is a good player.

You trade AB, Young, sully, 16, and 28 for what could well be a backup wing and a bench forward who doesn't play D.

Also I'm not sure how much they'd win.

I mean it will be a few years even if all goes well before lyles and Johnson are better than Sully and AB plus crowder is nice but do you want him in your starting lineup?

I like Lopez but he is neither a great scorer nor rebounder.

That starting lineup would be good defensively, tremendous even, but wouldn't score at all untill lyles (a project) develops
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Re: Does the Clips pick + Bradley get us back in the top 20
« Reply #26 on: May 25, 2015, 04:14:50 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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Seriously....you guys?

Care to look over the draft history for the past 20 years and tell me how many guys who got drafted between 15 and 20 ended up as good as Avery Bradley is right now?

I'd be interested to find out, but I'm pretty sure the answer will be "few and far between". 

Before anybody mentions our most recent ones, please note that Olynyk was drafted at #13 (we had #16 but traded up to get him) and Sully was projected to go top 10 before his injury scares pushed way down.  Even those guys are hardly elite, 'future star' type talent.  Just nice players.

If you think of guys we have actually drafted around the 20 range you're looking at guys like Fab Melo, E'Twaun Moore, JaJuan Johnson, James Young (he's shown nothing yet), etc.  Would you trade Avery Bradley for either of those guys?

Just a thought.   

Re: Does the Clips pick + Bradley get us back in the top 20
« Reply #27 on: May 25, 2015, 08:01:55 AM »

Offline Robb

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I agree that Bradley could fetch a pretty high pick, but I think you look at the teams and not the number of selection. I would think Charlotte, Miami and Indy would all be interested and they're picking 9-11.
We're the ones we've been waiting for.

Re: Does the Clips pick + Bradley get us back in the top 20
« Reply #28 on: May 25, 2015, 08:11:30 AM »

Offline dreamgreen

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Seriously....you guys?

Care to look over the draft history for the past 20 years and tell me how many guys who got drafted between 15 and 20 ended up as good as Avery Bradley is right now?

I'd be interested to find out, but I'm pretty sure the answer will be "few and far between". 

Before anybody mentions our most recent ones, please note that Olynyk was drafted at #13 (we had #16 but traded up to get him) and Sully was projected to go top 10 before his injury scares pushed way down.  Even those guys are hardly elite, 'future star' type talent.  Just nice players.

If you think of guys we have actually drafted around the 20 range you're looking at guys like Fab Melo, E'Twaun Moore, JaJuan Johnson, James Young (he's shown nothing yet), etc.  Would you trade Avery Bradley for either of those guys?

Just a thought.   

This.

Re: Does the Clips pick + Bradley get us back in the top 20
« Reply #29 on: May 25, 2015, 08:25:07 AM »

Offline Irish Stew

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Celtics get 4th pick (Emmanuel Mudiay)
Knicks get Ty Lawson, 45th pick
Utah Jazz get Avery Bradley
Nuggets get 12th pick, 16th pick, Kelly Olynyk
   NY fans burn MSG to the ground.