Early FA rumors (Cs and non Cs)

[tazzmaniac]

Do you think Noel is available? I have no clue, but agree with your points. Would be interested to learn more.

He could ultimately be made available but no way they Cs have anything to offer for him this off-season. I expect the 76ers will draft Russell and then role with a starting five of Russell, Wroten, Saric, Noel and Embiid. This unit staying together will hinge on players improving as shooters and spacing the court. If they do not show promise then Noel or Embiid will likely have to be moved for a stretch 4.

Then again this being the 76ers I wouldn't be shocked to see them throw everyone off and make a crazy trade this off-season with another team in the top 5. Maybe a situation where they draft Prozngis #3 then move Embiid in order to still draft Russell or Mudiay.

Conspiracy theory, did the 76ers bring Embiid to player combine as a way to float him around the other GMs to remind them of how much they liked him last year at this time? 

Saric is under contract with a big buyout.  He'll be playing in Europe at least one more season.  Financially it would be smart for him to play there two more seasons so he can get out of his rookie NBA contract. 

It was Embiid who asked to go to the combine.  He actually participated in their player interviews which was well received by the college players.  Ainge ought to consider having Smart do that next season.   

[tazzmaniac]

I've been all over the "throw the franchise" at Deandre Jordan and build around him thought, but after listening to Sirius XM the other day, the host said he's not the guy to build around but to add to as a third.  Interesting hearing that and made me rethink.  I guess now I'd go after Cousins or Noel via trade.

I would read too much into what some hack says on Sirius XM. Jordan is exactly the type of guy you build a team around (7 foot defensive center, free throw shooting and all). Also a guy like Noel is not even in Jordan's league.

DeAndre Jordan is absolutely NOT the type of player you build a team around...

Firstly, Jordan was the third best player on a team that didn't get past the second round.  Sure it was a close series, but again...third best player.

Secondly, Jordan has almost no offensive game at all.  74% of his shots came from inside 3 feet, 69% of his field goal attempts were assisted, and his free throw rate this year was 88% - that means for every 100 field goals he takes, he shoots 88 free throws.

This tells me:
a) 70% of his offense comes off assists - he NEEDS an elite pass-first PG in order to not be an offensive liability.

b) He has no jump shot and cannot stretch the floor - so you're limited what players you can put around him.  You need at least 3 (preferably four) dangerous shooters to keep the floor even remotely spread and to keep the defense honest.

b) He has a free throw rate of 88%.  That's based on attempts though, so (since he's a 39% shooter) it's actually 25% of his points that came from free throws.  Teams hack him because he will miss 60% of the time - this makes it hard to keep him on the court at the end of close games, because teams can just hack him and force him to brick free throw.

c) He has horrible BBIQ, and his game is completely dependent on his athleticism.   The instant he loses his quickness or leaping ability, his career is essentially over.

d) His lack of offense means you pretty much NEED one or two elite offensive players to make up for what he isn't giving you.

As for Noel having nothing on Jordan defensively, that's not really true. 

Deandre Jordan's Defensive Real-Plus-Minus for this season was +2.28 which ranks him 41st among all NBA players.   Nerlens Noel had a Defensive RPM of +336 which ranks him 18th in the league. 

Noel is also only 21 years old, and all statistics indicate that he is a FAR superior player right now than DeAndre Jordan was at the age of 21.

It would not be unreasonable to say that Noel is on par with (or even better than) DJ already defensively based on advanced stats...and at least Noel can make free throws at a half respectable rate.

DeAndre Jordan is basically a super role player.  He is crazy good as a shot-blocker and rebounder, but outside of those two areas he's really extremely limited. 

Unfortunately he's so unbelievably good at those two things, that it's inevitable some team will offer him a ridiculous contract...and after that contract you'll likely see his numbers drop off...because where he is right now is the best possible place for him.  On a Clippers team that contains both Chris Paul (one of the best pass-first Point Guards in history) and Blake Griffin (a 20+ PPG scorer).  I don't know if there is a single team in the league that fits him better then where he already is - that's why his stats this year looked so very impressive. 

Hell we couldn't even combine Jordan with our own elite passer (Rondo) because you'd have zero court spacing.

Not only is Noel much cheaper contract wise, and just as effective defensively, but he also probably has much higher upside because at only 21 years old he's already a good player.  If you want a big man specifically for rim protection, you'd be much better of acquiring Noel and then using the left over $7m-$8m to sign add some extra talent.

TP for the assessment.  I'd also add that Noel is the only player this season to finish in the top 10 in steals and blocks (2nd rookie ever to do so) and is also a pretty good passer.  I'd prefer getting Noel but it would obviously cost us a lot to trade for him.  Financially, Noel is making less than $3.5m next season so the cost difference would be over $16m. 

[Ilikesports17]

I've been all over the "throw the franchise" at Deandre Jordan and build around him thought, but after listening to Sirius XM the other day, the host said he's not the guy to build around but to add to as a third.  Interesting hearing that and made me rethink.  I guess now I'd go after Cousins or Noel via trade.

I would read too much into what some hack says on Sirius XM. Jordan is exactly the type of guy you build a team around (7 foot defensive center, free throw shooting and all). Also a guy like Noel is not even in Jordan's league.

DeAndre Jordan is absolutely NOT the type of player you build a team around...

Firstly, Jordan was the third best player on a team that didn't get past the second round.  Sure it was a close series, but again...third best player.

Secondly, Jordan has almost no offensive game at all.  74% of his shots came from inside 3 feet, 69% of his field goal attempts were assisted, and his free throw rate this year was 88% - that means for every 100 field goals he takes, he shoots 88 free throws.

This tells me:
a) 70% of his offense comes off assists - he NEEDS an elite pass-first PG in order to not be an offensive liability.

b) He has no jump shot and cannot stretch the floor - so you're limited what players you can put around him.  You need at least 3 (preferably four) dangerous shooters to keep the floor even remotely spread and to keep the defense honest.

b) He has a free throw rate of 88%.  That's based on attempts though, so (since he's a 39% shooter) it's actually 25% of his points that came from free throws.  Teams hack him because he will miss 60% of the time - this makes it hard to keep him on the court at the end of close games, because teams can just hack him and force him to brick free throw.

c) He has horrible BBIQ, and his game is completely dependent on his athleticism.   The instant he loses his quickness or leaping ability, his career is essentially over.

d) His lack of offense means you pretty much NEED one or two elite offensive players to make up for what he isn't giving you.

As for Noel having nothing on Jordan defensively, that's not really true. 

Deandre Jordan's Defensive Real-Plus-Minus for this season was +2.28 which ranks him 41st among all NBA players.   Nerlens Noel had a Defensive RPM of +336 which ranks him 18th in the league. 

Noel is also only 21 years old, and all statistics indicate that he is a FAR superior player right now than DeAndre Jordan was at the age of 21.

It would not be unreasonable to say that Noel is on par with (or even better than) DJ already defensively based on advanced stats...and at least Noel can make free throws at a half respectable rate.

DeAndre Jordan is basically a super role player.  He is crazy good as a shot-blocker and rebounder, but outside of those two areas he's really extremely limited. 

Unfortunately he's so unbelievably good at those two things, that it's inevitable some team will offer him a ridiculous contract...and after that contract you'll likely see his numbers drop off...because where he is right now is the best possible place for him.  On a Clippers team that contains both Chris Paul (one of the best pass-first Point Guards in history) and Blake Griffin (a 20+ PPG scorer).  I don't know if there is a single team in the league that fits him better then where he already is - that's why his stats this year looked so very impressive. 

Hell we couldn't even combine Jordan with our own elite passer (Rondo) because you'd have zero court spacing.

Not only is Noel much cheaper contract wise, and just as effective defensively, but he also probably has much higher upside because at only 21 years old he's already a good player.  If you want a big man specifically for rim protection, you'd be much better of acquiring Noel and then using the left over $7m-$8m to sign add some extra talent.

TP for the assessment.  I'd also add that Noel is the only player this season to finish in the top 10 in steals and blocks (2nd rookie ever to do so) and is also a pretty good passer.  I'd prefer getting Noel but it would obviously cost us a lot to trade for him.  Financially, Noel is making less than $3.5m next season so the cost difference would be over $16m.

Wed all love Noel, Id also like Cousins and James Harden. Point is we arent getting him without paying through the nose.

[boscel33]

[/quote]
Wed all love Noel, Id also like Cousins and James Harden. Point is we arent getting him without paying through the nose.
[/quote]

Define paying through the nose?  Two firsts and a player like KO, Sully, or AB? 

I'd give up both firsts this year to get him, plus one of those three as a starting point.  Looking at draft value, Noel was taken 6th overall. 

[saltlover]

Wed all love Noel, Id also like Cousins and James Harden. Point is we arent getting him without paying through the nose.

Define paying through the nose?  Two firsts and a player like KO, Sully, or AB? 

I'd give up both firsts this year to get him, plus one of those three as a starting point.  Looking at draft value, Noel was taken 6th overall.

I'd give up that.  I don't think the Sixers accept.  Which is why it's likely going to take paying through the nose.

[jambr380]

Wed all love Noel, Id also like Cousins and James Harden. Point is we arent getting him without paying through the nose.

Define paying through the nose?  Two firsts and a player like KO, Sully, or AB? 

I'd give up both firsts this year to get him, plus one of those three as a starting point.  Looking at draft value, Noel was taken 6th overall.

I'd give up that.  I don't think the Sixers accept.  Which is why it's likely going to take paying through the nose.

The Sixers not getting a top 2 pick really dashed any hopes we Cs fans had of convincing them to trade us Noel. With Towns, Embiid, and Noel, one of them would clearly have had to go, but now they can just take their time, see if Embiid and Noel can play together, and make a trade later [if they want].

I would love to get Noel and would be happy to pay through the nose, but it may deplete our assets more than fans may like.

[jpotter33]

Wed all love Noel, Id also like Cousins and James Harden. Point is we arent getting him without paying through the nose.

Define paying through the nose?  Two firsts and a player like KO, Sully, or AB? 

I'd give up both firsts this year to get him, plus one of those three as a starting point.  Looking at draft value, Noel was taken 6th overall.

I'd give up that.  I don't think the Sixers accept.  Which is why it's likely going to take paying through the nose.

The Sixers not getting a top 2 pick really dashed any hopes we Cs fans had of convincing them to trade us Noel. With Towns, Embiid, and Noel, one of them would clearly have had to go, but now they can just take their time, see if Embiid and Noel can play together, and make a trade later [if they want].

I would love to get Noel and would be happy to pay through the nose, but it may deplete our assets more than fans may like.

Lakers very well could grab Winslow, Russell, or Mudiay instead of Okafor at the 2 if they think they can get bigs this year (Love, DJ, Gasol, etc.). Then the Sixers would almost have to take Okafor with his talent, or trade down for more assets.

[LooseCannon]

I've been all over the "throw the franchise" at Deandre Jordan and build around him thought, but after listening to Sirius XM the other day, the host said he's not the guy to build around but to add to as a third.  Interesting hearing that and made me rethink.  I guess now I'd go after Cousins or Noel via trade.

I would read too much into what some hack says on Sirius XM. Jordan is exactly the type of guy you build a team around (7 foot defensive center, free throw shooting and all). Also a guy like Noel is not even in Jordan's league.

Is DeAndre Jordan really that much better than Robin Lopez?  Especially when you factor in the contract both will get this summer, is Jordan worth the extra money he will get over Lopez?

I think so. Not that I would mind Robin Lopez. But Lopez is decent while Jordan is a superstar caliber center because of his athleticism, defense and shot blocking.

Jordan is overrated because of his athleticism and shot-blocking (and his playing for a large market team).

[Celts Fan 508]

I've been all over the "throw the franchise" at Deandre Jordan and build around him thought, but after listening to Sirius XM the other day, the host said he's not the guy to build around but to add to as a third.  Interesting hearing that and made me rethink.  I guess now I'd go after Cousins or Noel via trade.

I would read too much into what some hack says on Sirius XM. Jordan is exactly the type of guy you build a team around (7 foot defensive center, free throw shooting and all). Also a guy like Noel is not even in Jordan's league.

Is DeAndre Jordan really that much better than Robin Lopez?  Especially when you factor in the contract both will get this summer, is Jordan worth the extra money he will get over Lopez?

I think so. Not that I would mind Robin Lopez. But Lopez is decent while Jordan is a superstar caliber center because of his athleticism, defense and shot blocking.

Jordan is overrated because of his athleticism and shot-blocking (and his playing for a large market team).

I agree, I think Robin Lopez will be the better value, I also think Omar Asik might be another better value than Jordan.

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

I've been all over the "throw the franchise" at Deandre Jordan and build around him thought, but after listening to Sirius XM the other day, the host said he's not the guy to build around but to add to as a third.  Interesting hearing that and made me rethink.  I guess now I'd go after Cousins or Noel via trade.

I would read too much into what some hack says on Sirius XM. Jordan is exactly the type of guy you build a team around (7 foot defensive center, free throw shooting and all). Also a guy like Noel is not even in Jordan's league.

Is DeAndre Jordan really that much better than Robin Lopez?  Especially when you factor in the contract both will get this summer, is Jordan worth the extra money he will get over Lopez?

I think so. Not that I would mind Robin Lopez. But Lopez is decent while Jordan is a superstar caliber center because of his athleticism, defense and shot blocking.

Jordan is overrated because of his athleticism and shot-blocking (and his playing for a large market team).

I agree, I think Robin Lopez will be the better value, I also think Omar Asik might be another better value than Jordan.

I know there has been argument about who is better/better value but I really don't care who it is, all I want is a very good/great defensive C (especially when it comes to help D).

[Celts Fan 508]

I've been all over the "throw the franchise" at Deandre Jordan and build around him thought, but after listening to Sirius XM the other day, the host said he's not the guy to build around but to add to as a third.  Interesting hearing that and made me rethink.  I guess now I'd go after Cousins or Noel via trade.

I would read too much into what some hack says on Sirius XM. Jordan is exactly the type of guy you build a team around (7 foot defensive center, free throw shooting and all). Also a guy like Noel is not even in Jordan's league.

Is DeAndre Jordan really that much better than Robin Lopez?  Especially when you factor in the contract both will get this summer, is Jordan worth the extra money he will get over Lopez?

I think so. Not that I would mind Robin Lopez. But Lopez is decent while Jordan is a superstar caliber center because of his athleticism, defense and shot blocking.

Jordan is overrated because of his athleticism and shot-blocking (and his playing for a large market team).

I agree, I think Robin Lopez will be the better value, I also think Omar Asik might be another better value than Jordan.

I know there has been argument about who is better/better value but I really don't care who it is, all I want is a very good/great defensive C (especially when it comes to help D).

Exactly, that is why I think the Celtics should use their max on ascorer and then sign their rim protector C for less than the max.

[gpap]

I don't understand why everyone is so enamored with Noel.

I really don't.

No, actually I do.

It's because he's from around here.

If it weren't for that, no one would even mention him.

I think we should be going after players based on talent, not because they like "clam chowdah" and "paaaak there caaaaa at havvaaaad yaaaad."

[Ilikesports17]

I don't understand why everyone is so enamored with Noel.

I really don't.

No, actually I do.

It's because he's from around here.

If it weren't for that, no one would even mention him.

I think we should be going after players based on talent, not because they like "clam chowdah" and "paaaak there caaaaa at havvaaaad yaaaad."

Or it could be the little tid bit about how he just rattled off one of the most statiscally dominant defensive seasons for a rookie in nba history.

Not to mention we've been pining after a rim-protector for years so it's only logical that when the best young rim protector is on a team which has an even more hyped center on the roster and a propensity to trade exciting your players celtics fans are enamored with him.

I mean there is a lot of WCS hype and he's basically an unproven poormans noel

[Forza Juventus]

I don't understand why everyone is so enamored with Noel.

I really don't.

No, actually I do.

It's because he's from around here.

If it weren't for that, no one would even mention him.

I think we should be going after players based on talent, not because they like "clam chowdah" and "paaaak there caaaaa at havvaaaad yaaaad."

I like him because I think he will be a very good player. He is an athletic shot blocker that can protect the rim and he is a very smart player and I think he will be a star defender. I also like Kentucky.

[LGC88]

I don't understand why everyone is so enamored with Noel.

I really don't.

No, actually I do.

It's because he's from around here.

If it weren't for that, no one would even mention him.

I think we should be going after players based on talent, not because they like "clam chowdah" and "paaaak there caaaaa at havvaaaad yaaaad."

You are right, but that's not the whole reason. He had a very good 1st year in NBA pulling out great numbers on D and being not bad on offense. He has great potential to me and could be a Boston fans' favorite his entire career (which is also important for Boston's franchise).
I hope LA doesn't pick one of the big and Philly does. That way we have a shot at Noel hopefully next year.