Author Topic: Bill Simmons Leaving ESPN  (Read 36329 times)

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Re: Bill Simmons Leaving ESPN
« Reply #45 on: May 13, 2015, 11:17:45 AM »

Offline PhoSita

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I don't agree with that assessment at all (save Lowe and Barnwell, but Sharp, really?), perhaps I'm being too optimistic with my view of the average sports fan. They're certainly reaching for people who are more engaged than the ESPN crowd.

Charles P. Pierce is still the best writer on that site (as I'm sure I've said before on here).

I've enjoyed some articles I've read by Sharp recently.  Pierce is definitely good.

I guess my feeling is that while the stuff on Grantland isn't necessarily well crafted in a technical sense, there's lots of content and information to absorb if you care to take the time.  And that means that it's clearly not tailored to the attention span of the average Internet using sports fan.

I could see how if you're an old school journalism type -- somebody who will notice, and be peeved by, all of the ways in which the articles do not conform to the rules -- Grantland could just seem irritating.  It's obvious they don't spend a terribly great amount of time editing there, and they obviously have no particular interest in journalistic conventions.


What I really like about the Grantland site, and the writers therein, is that it doesn't feel agenda driven.  It's driven by a genuine enthusiasm for the sports, and a desire to learn more about how they're played and the players who play them.

I can't say the same for anything on the main ESPN site.


But hey, these days the Boston area sports writers I tend to enjoy most are Chad Finn and Eric Wilbur.  Jackie Mac is wonderful, but she doesn't write very often.  Bob Ryan is retired.
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Re: Bill Simmons Leaving ESPN
« Reply #46 on: May 13, 2015, 11:24:04 AM »

Offline D.o.s.

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I'm not even speaking from a journalism/classicism standpoint (Grantland Rice was a bad writer too) but as an English major, in the pejorative sense that you'll find it in the Book of Basketball.

Not that I have an implicit problem with them being ESPN's version of the Huffington Post (I think Kevin O'Connor said that?), but it's important to recognize that there are at least several better sports blogs out there.

This is a good read on Simmons from a better sports blog than Grantland incidentally. Also, everyone should read The Classical, because they are a great sports blog (no affiliation between me and them beyond admiration).
http://theclassical.org/articles/the-ballad-of-cm-simmons
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Re: Bill Simmons Leaving ESPN
« Reply #47 on: May 13, 2015, 11:31:14 AM »

Offline PhoSita

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I'm not even speaking from a journalism/classicism standpoint (Grantland Rice was a bad writer too) but as an English major, in the pejorative sense that you'll find it in the Book of Basketball.

Not that I have an implicit problem with them being ESPN's version of the Huffington Post (I think Kevin O'Connor said that?), but it's important to recognize that there are at least several better sports blogs out there.

This is a good read on Simmons from a better sports blog than Grantland incidentally. Also, everyone should read The Classical, because they are a great sports blog (no affiliation between me and them beyond admiration).
http://theclassical.org/articles/the-ballad-of-cm-simmons

I'm always glad to encounter quality sports blogs.  Hardwood Paroxysm is another that probably ought to get read more (I don't read it often enough).  The silliness of Matt Moore on Twitter belies the quality of the work that is often evidenced on the actual site.

I don't think the Huffington Post comparison is fair to Grantland.  Maybe once upon a time, but not since Huffington started turning itself into a politically inclined Buzzfeed.


Maybe a better way to go is to compare Bill Simmons to Penny Arcade. 

The Penny Arcade guys are not really part of the video game covering media.  They are outsiders in a similar way, since they present themselves as extremely knowledgeable and experienced fan boys.  But they also drive fan interest and play a huge role in spotlighting games that otherwise would get overlooked.  Their web comic may do more to make or break the success of some games than many well-respected review sites ever could. 

And you know, despite being rather free flowing and not painstakingly edited, what they do put out there on their site is usually very insightful and interesting, though much of it ends up being about things I've never played, or ever will play.
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain

Re: Bill Simmons Leaving ESPN
« Reply #48 on: May 13, 2015, 11:42:16 AM »

Offline Gainesville Celtic

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Jonathan Abrams is probably my favorite writer on Grantland (though I only really read the NBA stuff and skim some others), but hasn't been mentioned.

I love Zach Lowe (and have since he was at SI) but mostly when he's talking larger picture stuff or profiling a player/team. He can get a little infatuated with turning a phrase or breaking down plays.

I think predicting what Simmons will do next is like predicting what Ainge will do. I assume that their top 3 ideas/options right now are ones few if any of us are thinking about.

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Re: Bill Simmons Leaving ESPN
« Reply #49 on: May 13, 2015, 12:03:54 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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Jonathan Abrams is probably my favorite writer on Grantland (though I only really read the NBA stuff and skim some others), but hasn't been mentioned.

I love Zach Lowe (and have since he was at SI) but mostly when he's talking larger picture stuff or profiling a player/team. He can get a little infatuated with turning a phrase or breaking down plays.

I think predicting what Simmons will do next is like predicting what Ainge will do. I assume that their top 3 ideas/options right now are ones few if any of us are thinking about.

I like Abrams a lot, too.
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain

Re: Bill Simmons Leaving ESPN
« Reply #50 on: May 13, 2015, 12:10:07 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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I totally forgot about him -- his features are great reads most of the time.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: Bill Simmons Leaving ESPN
« Reply #51 on: May 13, 2015, 02:39:06 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Man there are so many people taking shots at Simmons right now.  Deadspin has written like 4 articles taking a dump on him.   I'm excited to see him go off when his little gag order is over.   I think it's weird that people are writing about him like he's dead.  It's not like leaving ESPN is going to end his career.

Typical when something gets too popular, people react.  I get some people aren't a fan of Simmons.  I find his writing wildly entertaining.  I'll continue to read him at his next stop.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2015, 02:52:19 PM by LarBrd33 »

Re: Bill Simmons Leaving ESPN
« Reply #52 on: May 13, 2015, 03:17:18 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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Man there are so many people taking shots at Simmons right now.  Deadspin has written like 4 articles taking a dump on him.   I'm excited to see him go off when his little gag order is over.   I think it's weird that people are writing about him like he's dead.  It's not like leaving ESPN is going to end his career.

I love Deadspin, I respect their amoral stance on sports and sports media. I check their site more than 5 times daily.

But that Kevin Draper (I think?) takedown piece on Simmons was ridiculous. LeBron gets a bigger benefit of the doubt from Woj than Draper gives Simmons actual writing acumen.

And also, (insert profanity) you for not making a bigger deal out of the Book On Basketball, Deadspin. The Book On Basketball is the definitive guide to basketball tradition for those who did not live through it. Ridiculous.

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Re: Bill Simmons Leaving ESPN
« Reply #53 on: May 13, 2015, 03:31:21 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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So is SImmons just going to exist in this contractual/fired limbo for the next 4 months?  Does he need to keep producing content for ESPN?  Is he just supposed to keep his mouth shut until his contract ends?  If I'm him, I just hire a team of web developers to build my next venue and spend the next 4 months working on a book.

Re: Bill Simmons Leaving ESPN
« Reply #54 on: May 13, 2015, 03:35:56 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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Man there are so many people taking shots at Simmons right now.  Deadspin has written like 4 articles taking a dump on him.   I'm excited to see him go off when his little gag order is over.   I think it's weird that people are writing about him like he's dead.  It's not like leaving ESPN is going to end his career.

I love Deadspin, I respect their amoral stance on sports and sports media. I check their site more than 5 times daily.

But that Kevin Draper (I think?) takedown piece on Simmons was ridiculous. LeBron gets a bigger benefit of the doubt from Woj than Draper gives Simmons actual writing acumen.

And also, (insert profanity) you for not making a bigger deal out of the Book On Basketball, Deadspin. The Book On Basketball is the definitive guide to basketball tradition for those who did not live through it. Ridiculous.

Only if you don't read other basketball books. Calling Simmons a bad writer is like calling Tony Allen a bad free throw shooter. TA is a 71% free throw shooter. That's not Rondo bad, but the league average this year was 75%, you know?

So is SImmons just going to exist in this contractual/fired limbo for the next 4 months?  Does he need to keep producing content for ESPN?  Is he just supposed to keep his mouth shut until his contract ends?  If I'm him, I just hire a team of web developers to build my next venue and spend the next 4 months working on a book.

He's definitely not producing any more content for ESPN, but they'll keep his face up on grantland until his contract runs out.

He's not writing another book now -- who would foot the bill for it?
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: Bill Simmons Leaving ESPN
« Reply #55 on: May 13, 2015, 03:44:48 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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Man there are so many people taking shots at Simmons right now.  Deadspin has written like 4 articles taking a dump on him.   I'm excited to see him go off when his little gag order is over.   I think it's weird that people are writing about him like he's dead.  It's not like leaving ESPN is going to end his career.

I love Deadspin, I respect their amoral stance on sports and sports media. I check their site more than 5 times daily.

But that Kevin Draper (I think?) takedown piece on Simmons was ridiculous. LeBron gets a bigger benefit of the doubt from Woj than Draper gives Simmons actual writing acumen.

And also, (insert profanity) you for not making a bigger deal out of the Book On Basketball, Deadspin. The Book On Basketball is the definitive guide to basketball tradition for those who did not live through it. Ridiculous.

Only if you don't read other basketball books. Calling Simmons a bad writer is like calling Tony Allen a bad free throw shooter. TA is a 71% free throw shooter. That's not Rondo bad, but the league average this year was 75%, you know?

What other basketball book covers the same span (basically all of basketball history) in the same easily accessible format (this may be skewed by me being a 31 y-o Amer White Male)? My dad has a copy in his bathroom. I have a copy in my bathroom. A bunch of my buddies have copies on their coffee tables or bathrooms (or coffee tables in their bathrooms if they have large bathrooms that require tables). It is nigh on ubiquitous as far as non-autobiographical basketball books are concerned, and he deserves some credit.

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Re: Bill Simmons Leaving ESPN
« Reply #56 on: May 13, 2015, 03:47:18 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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Man there are so many people taking shots at Simmons right now.  Deadspin has written like 4 articles taking a dump on him.   I'm excited to see him go off when his little gag order is over.   I think it's weird that people are writing about him like he's dead.  It's not like leaving ESPN is going to end his career.

I love Deadspin, I respect their amoral stance on sports and sports media. I check their site more than 5 times daily.

But that Kevin Draper (I think?) takedown piece on Simmons was ridiculous. LeBron gets a bigger benefit of the doubt from Woj than Draper gives Simmons actual writing acumen.

And also, (insert profanity) you for not making a bigger deal out of the Book On Basketball, Deadspin. The Book On Basketball is the definitive guide to basketball tradition for those who did not live through it. Ridiculous.

Only if you don't read other basketball books. Calling Simmons a bad writer is like calling Tony Allen a bad free throw shooter. TA is a 71% free throw shooter. That's not Rondo bad, but the league average this year was 75%, you know?


To be fair, it depends on what you're asking out of basketball book.  If you're looking for advanced analytics & objectivity, "Book of Basketball isn't your cup of tea.  But if you're looking for a entertaining & passionate take on the history of basketball, it's a darn good book.  Especially for the casual basketball fan.   


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Re: Bill Simmons Leaving ESPN
« Reply #57 on: May 13, 2015, 03:52:57 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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I should point out that I very much enjoy TBoB. I own both editions, and they're well-thumbed.

However, there are many other awesome basketball books that cover the same thing (some in a similar fashion). For example:

http://www.amazon.com/FreeDarko-Presents-Undisputed-Basketball-History/dp/1608190838
http://www.amazon.com/Rivalry-Russell-Chamberlain-Golden-Basketball/dp/0812970306
http://www.amazon.com/The-Last-Shot-Streets-Basketball/dp/B004H8GMCG
http://www.amazon.com/Breaks-Game-David-Halberstam/dp/1401309720/
http://www.amazon.com/Seven-Seconds-Less-Season-Phoenix/dp/0743298136/
But, again, they don't have the weight of Disney behind them.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: Bill Simmons Leaving ESPN
« Reply #58 on: May 13, 2015, 03:56:32 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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It's a bummer to lose Simmons while the playoffs are still going on.

I'll miss getting his take (and his guests' take) on the developments of each playoff series.

At least we still have The Lowe Post.
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
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Re: Bill Simmons Leaving ESPN
« Reply #59 on: May 13, 2015, 04:07:26 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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I should point out that I very much enjoy TBoB. I own both editions, and they're well-thumbed.

However, there are many other awesome basketball books that cover the same thing (some in a similar fashion). For example:

http://www.amazon.com/FreeDarko-Presents-Undisputed-Basketball-History/dp/1608190838
http://www.amazon.com/Rivalry-Russell-Chamberlain-Golden-Basketball/dp/0812970306
http://www.amazon.com/The-Last-Shot-Streets-Basketball/dp/B004H8GMCG
http://www.amazon.com/Breaks-Game-David-Halberstam/dp/1401309720/
http://www.amazon.com/Seven-Seconds-Less-Season-Phoenix/dp/0743298136/
But, again, they don't have the weight of Disney behind them.

But I'd argue that the only book that really covers the same breadth as The Book On Basketball is Bethlehem Shoals' book, and on a side note, I forgot that existed and I need to read it.

But yeah, I don't think anyone has told the 'entire' story of basketball in a way that the casual fan can respond to quite like Simmons.

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner