Would you be happy if the C's started next season with the following team..?

[chambers]

Good replies.

I'd be torn with a line up as such. I think overall I wouldn't complain because we'd be 'collecting' some decent guys and *crossing fingers* that both Harris and Middleton graduate to at least contending for All Star appearances within 2 seasons.

I guess the aim is to get some of these younger guys with potential before the cap explodes and then once the cap hits 108 million, we've still got room for one more true blue 'superstar' if we want to add that player to this core- OR we could trade Harris or Middleton etc for that star and thus keep that cap room to add another player to the acquired star.

Anyway, I think that line up goes pretty deep with Stevens as the coach.

I would prefer D Jordan over Hibbert after watching him vs the Spurs and Rockets- he owned Howard in their first game and is an incredible defender overall. I think he has more of an impact on the Clippers success than Leonard does on the Spurs but hey.

[chambers]

your pretty quick to move the guy who won the RA award this year.

I just can't see how we win a championship with Bradley as our starting shooting guard unless we've got 3 All Stars in place already.

[chambers]

Id be delighted
I think they could make some headway in the playoffs

How could they do it? I think its possible
Step 1. AB to Jazz or Thunder for pick 12 or 14 and change (now 35 mil cap space)
Step 2. Sign Middleton and Harris to max deals 16 mil a piece (now 3 mil cap space)
Step 3. Package Wallace and #28 to a team like Philly (14 mil)
Step 4. Trade future #2 pick to eat entire Hibbert salary.
Step 5. Match any offers for Crowder
Step 6. Select Oubre at 12, Harrell at 16, George Lucas/Dakari Johnson/Tyler Harvey/Upshaw at 33

Salary cap issues.
Im not sure if that works as Crowder QO and draft pick holds count against us. Moving Wallace and AB gets us to 46 mil but I think the 12 and 16 picks count for 3.3 mil and Crowder is 1.1 mil so then we are down to 41.6 mil. That's not enough to take in two 16 mil contracts and Hibberts 13.67. We would have to send them Evan Turner in the deal. Which is unfortunate as  I like Turner but so be it.

The lineup is exacly as outlined I believe

Smart IT
Middleton Young
Harris Crowder Oubre
Sully KO Harrell
Hibbert Zeller Upshaw

Also if it came to it we could package 12 and 16 and a guy like Kelly to get into the top 10 as that would actually lower the cap #.
I think KO, 12, 16 could get you into the top 10 to maybe get a WCS or a Prozingis or a Hezonja or Johnson. (the last 2 would be a bit redundant but both would be great adds in terms of talent)

I have 2 concerns with this
1. Bucks might match
2. Magic might match

Moreso the magic. The Bucks have 2 great wings coming up in Parker and GA but they may bring Middleton back because he shoots lights out and GA and MCW are bad shooters. Hopefully they see their wing position as set and let Middleton walk.

The Magic on the other hand have talent in Aaron Gordon but he like the rest of the team cant really shoot the basketball I expect them to match.

Great post, TP.

I think that with the rising cap it makes going after guys like Middleton and Harris more risk worthy because we can deal them for another true superstar later down the road if we need to. (well hopefully we can).

And yes I agree, the biggest obstacle to putting such a team on the floor would be the Magic and Bucks matching max offers on Middleton and Harris.

[I told you so]

Roy Hibbert is an absolute dog.  He will be great one night and a no-show the next two. Read the Pacers' blog ... they will be dancing in the streets when he leaves Indianapolis.

[Hemingway]

We might be better off improving our 4 and 5 and keeping our 1 2 and 3. Sure the O was a question with the 1 2 and 3 this year but I think we will see Smart and Crowder score more next year.

[chambers]

Roy Hibbert is an absolute dog.  He will be great one night and a no-show the next two. Read the Pacers' blog ... they will be dancing in the streets when he leaves Indianapolis.

I don't think he's a dog, he's one of the best rim protectors in the NBA and he has some offensive game.
It appears that he needs a decent support system around him and his game really went down hill once the Paul George sleeping with his GF rumors started circulating. He also didn't get along with Lance Stephenson.

I think it would be worth getting him and seeing what Stevens can do with him in our team first offense because Hibbert seems like a player that would buy into the team system.

He's the best defender, on (when healthy) the best defensive team in the NBA- I'm sure Stevens could turn him into a winner.

There's a reason he's a 2 time All Star and he's young enough to be salvageable (in my opinion).

[pokeKingCurtis]

Hibbert is a dawg*

[outflip50]

First, I do not claim to be a salary cap guru. I do see a couple of problems here though.

1) First foremost and question.
To pull this off, we have to renounce basically everything and anything that resembles a cap hold. This includes all FA's, TPE's and our first rounders would have to be dumped.  If I am reading this correctly, with Wallace on our books our cap number is around 43 mil, leaving about 25 mil in pace with the salary cap projected to be around 68 mil? 
2) We then unload Wallace with a first to get to 33 million (about 35 mil under cap)?
3) We have no rights to  JJ, Bass, Luigi, Pressey, Babb, and most of all CROWDER am I missing anyone?
4) We can now only go to the cap of 68 mil to sign free agents??
5) We have no number ones and also lose out on some of the salary exceptions by going under the cap???

If this is the cost ... no thanks

[Moranis]

No.  I think that roster is a GIANT step back to a future championship, which is kind of the point for sports.

[walker834]

I want to get a wing and center. I think we should draft one and trade of sign the other. We have Crowder.  Do you really want to break up Smart and Bradley before they evevn have a chance to terrorize other teams?  Why is middleton better than Bradley?  Why do we need Middleton, Harris when we have crowder.

[Evantime34]

I really would like to add Hibbert. He would be a great value trade. From the quotes by the Pacers coaches and management it sounds like they don't want him to pick up his option to come back. If I'm Hibbert I pick it up and then force a trade. I don't think it would cost more than Sully and the Clippers pick.

Kris Middleton would be a great pick up, but I'm nervous that because he's a restricted free agent the Bucks will just match any offer we make.

Tobias Harris has been much better as a stretch 4 than a 3, I would be fine starting him at that role, but I don't see why the Magic wouldn't match any contract.

If we are having trouble signing good free agents, trading for a solid wing would really help fill out the roster. With the Nuggets probably trading Ty Lawson I wouldn't be surprised if Gallinari became available. If LaMarcus Aldridge leaves maybe Portland trades Nic Batum.

Obviously a big time free agent is the goal. Since, that probably isn't happening I would be happy if they improved the center and small forward position, while making sure not to give up the Mavs or Brooklyn picks.

Hibbert
Olynyk
Batum
Bradley
Smart

Bench
Thomas
Zeller
Crowder
Jerebko
Young
16th pick.

That would be a solid rotation, with the ability to get some top tier talent in the 2016 draft from Brooklyn and the Mavs the C's would be headed in a great direction.

[wdleehi]

No.


Capped out without a star? 



I could see adding one of those players, but not all three. 

[Gainesville Celtic]

Id be delighted
I think they could make some headway in the playoffs

How could they do it? I think its possible
Step 1. AB to Jazz or Thunder for pick 12 or 14 and change (now 35 mil cap space)
Step 2. Sign Middleton and Harris to max deals 16 mil a piece (now 3 mil cap space)
Step 3. Package Wallace and #28 to a team like Philly (14 mil)
Step 4. Trade future #2 pick to eat entire Hibbert salary.
Step 5. Match any offers for Crowder
Step 6. Select Oubre at 12, Harrell at 16, George Lucas/Dakari Johnson/Tyler Harvey/Upshaw at 33

Just want to point out a slight logistical problem I see in many offseason plans posted around here (not picking on you, I've seen it a number of times):

The NBA Draft is June 25, while Free Agency doesn't begin until July 1 and FAs can't actually sign until July 8 (this year).

So 2015 picks that are getting traded have to be traded BEFORE free agents decide where to sign.

Meaning that in your example (a) that you'd be risking moving Bradley for just a pick and whiffing on free agents and (b) Step 2 & 5 would happen after Step 6.

Id be delighted
Step 1. AB to Jazz or Thunder for pick 12 or 14 and change (now 35 mil cap space)
Step 3. Package Wallace and #28 to a team like Philly (14 mil)
Step 4. Trade future #2 pick to eat entire Hibbert salary.
Step 6. Select Oubre at 12, Harrell at 16, George Lucas/Dakari Johnson/Tyler Harvey/Upshaw at 33
---
Step 2. Sign Middleton and Harris to max deals 16 mil a piece (now 3 mil cap space)
Step 5. Match any offers for Crowder

IMO, it's a subtle but important added risk in a multi-stage process.

Where you might be able to move 2015 picks (and other players and picks) for players currently under contract (Batum, Farried, Lawson, et al.), it'd be very risky to move a rotation player on a good contract just to open up (even) more cap room with no real guarantee of adding someone.

If we had 1-2 superstars already and were looking for a final piece, maybe you take that risk. But IMO a team like this Celtics one with a lot of good but not great players, other paths to clearing max cap room, and realistically more draft picks than we'd be able to use already, it's a very lateral (if not potentially backwards) move.

[mahcus smaht]

Id be delighted
I think they could make some headway in the playoffs

How could they do it? I think its possible
Step 1. AB to Jazz or Thunder for pick 12 or 14 and change (now 35 mil cap space)
Step 2. Sign Middleton and Harris to max deals 16 mil a piece (now 3 mil cap space)
Step 3. Package Wallace and #28 to a team like Philly (14 mil)
Step 4. Trade future #2 pick to eat entire Hibbert salary.
Step 5. Match any offers for Crowder
Step 6. Select Oubre at 12, Harrell at 16, George Lucas/Dakari Johnson/Tyler Harvey/Upshaw at 33

Just want to point out a slight logistical problem I see in many offseason plans posted around here (not picking on you, I've seen it a number of times):

The NBA Draft is June 25, while Free Agency doesn't begin until July 1 and FAs can't actually sign until July 8 (this year).

So 2015 picks that are getting traded have to be traded BEFORE free agents decide where to sign.

Meaning that in your example (a) that you'd be risking moving Bradley for just a pick and whiffing on free agents and (b) Step 2 & 5 would happen after Step 6.

Id be delighted
Step 1. AB to Jazz or Thunder for pick 12 or 14 and change (now 35 mil cap space)
Step 3. Package Wallace and #28 to a team like Philly (14 mil)
Step 4. Trade future #2 pick to eat entire Hibbert salary.
Step 6. Select Oubre at 12, Harrell at 16, George Lucas/Dakari Johnson/Tyler Harvey/Upshaw at 33
---
Step 2. Sign Middleton and Harris to max deals 16 mil a piece (now 3 mil cap space)
Step 5. Match any offers for Crowder

IMO, it's a subtle but important added risk in a multi-stage process.

Where you might be able to move 2015 picks (and other players and picks) for players currently under contract (Batum, Farried, Lawson, et al.), it'd be very risky to move a rotation player on a good contract just to open up (even) more cap room with no real guarantee of adding someone.

If we had 1-2 superstars already and were looking for a final piece, maybe you take that risk. But IMO a team like this Celtics one with a lot of good but not great players, other paths to clearing max cap room, and realistically more draft picks than we'd be able to use already, it's a very lateral (if not potentially backwards) move.

I did not think of that.

I think you are right.

The risk obviously is that you are left with no shooting gaurd and a ton of cap with no one worth spending it on. I still think you consider it. However, that just means Ainge needs to make sure he believes from a talent perspective he is winning the AB trade rather than just dumping his salary.

If I know Im getting Middleton and Harris, then Im willing to part ways with AB for 14 and feel like I won the trade, if not  I consider #12 and certainly prefer 12 +Hood

[mahcus smaht]

First, I do not claim to be a salary cap guru. I do see a couple of problems here though.

1) First foremost and question.
To pull this off, we have to renounce basically everything and anything that resembles a cap hold. This includes all FA's, TPE's and our first rounders would have to be dumped.  If I am reading this correctly, with Wallace on our books our cap number is around 43 mil, leaving about 25 mil in pace with the salary cap projected to be around 68 mil? 
2) We then unload Wallace with a first to get to 33 million (about 35 mil under cap)?
3) We have no rights to  JJ, Bass, Luigi, Pressey, Babb, and most of all CROWDER am I missing anyone?
4) We can now only go to the cap of 68 mil to sign free agents??
5) We have no number ones and also lose out on some of the salary exceptions by going under the cap???

If this is the cost ... no thanks

I saw with everything renounced we are at 27 in space but I dont really know. The TE's are fairly useless if you think about them so thats not a big loss. We can QO Crowder for merely 1.1 mil. Assuming we move AB for a 10-14 range pick and we move 28 out to get rid of Wallace the picks will acount for 3.3 mil. Wed also have to move on from ET So:

27+11(Wallace) + 8(Bradley) - 1.1(Crowder) - 3.3(Picks) -32(KM+TH) + (3.5-13.7)(ET for Hibbert)

That puts us like .6 mil over. IDK if thats an issue.