Author Topic: Possibility of moving up in the draft  (Read 3906 times)

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Possibility of moving up in the draft
« on: May 05, 2015, 07:13:32 AM »

Offline slightly biased bias fan

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Does anyone think we could possibly move into the top 10 picks of the draft before the lottery?

Miami, obviously will be looking for established talent as the push for another title run and New York, LA and Sacramento all want NBA ready players not projects for instant results (though i doubt we would have the assets for the latter 3's picks)

I just wanted to hear other peoples opinions on the matter and perhaps someone can think more out of the box then me. If we could attain Miami's pick before the lottery we are still a chance of moving up (Cav's had 9th pick last lottery and Clippers 8th 2011).

My idea for the Miami pick would be Sully, our pick for the 10th and fillers.

Thoughts?

Re: Possibility of moving up in the draft
« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2015, 07:33:51 AM »

Offline CFAN38

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absolutely no way a team would ever trade a pick before the lottery.....


I think the Cs best chance of moving up is to Indiana at #11. The Cs would have to really want someone at this point and I personally would only do it if one of the projected top 9 slid down (WCS or S Johnson). I would think Indy would consider a trade of KO , #16 and #33. I could see indy doing this to trade down to grab Grant, Jones or Payne in order to get a young PG on the roster. This trade would allow them to get younger with out effecting their core guys.

The other possible team though a long shot that I could see is maybe Detriot. They are set at PG, SG and C. Maybe they would want to gain more assets and trade #8 for KO, #16, #28 and a 2016 1st. In theory KO is the perfect front court partner for Drummond. At #16 they maybe able to find a future starting SF if Dekker slips or they reach for RHJ. The #28 and future pick are nice assets to have for a team that isn't at the level to really compete in the playoffs yet. 
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Re: Possibility of moving up in the draft
« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2015, 07:34:40 AM »

Offline HomerSapien

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You can forget about trading for a lottery pick pre-lottery. NOBODY would trade a pick after the season but before the ping pong balls. There is no incentive for MIA to not just wait a few weeks and guarantee the pick is at 10, and not a 1 - 3 game changer.

As for C's trading up, I think there is a chance for them to move as high as #6. The 6 - 8 are probably less likely, but then 9 - 12 I see as being very attainable. I'd expect some combo of Olynyk, AB, and/or Sully, #16, and then one or two sweetener picks to make the move a reality.

Re: Possibility of moving up in the draft
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2015, 07:46:39 AM »

Offline Csfan1984

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No not possible.

Re: Possibility of moving up in the draft
« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2015, 08:21:24 AM »

Offline slamtheking

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never happen pre-draft night nevermind before the lottery.

as for trading up, wouldn't be adverse to the rumor of AB for Utah's pick (#12).   maybe combine #12 and #16 to get to #8 or so.  Not a fan of dealing Sully to hope to get a player as good as Sully

Re: Possibility of moving up in the draft
« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2015, 03:28:43 PM »

Offline mef730

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never happen pre-draft night nevermind before the lottery.

as for trading up, wouldn't be adverse to the rumor of AB for Utah's pick (#12).   maybe combine #12 and #16 to get to #8 or so.  Not a fan of dealing Sully to hope to get a player as good as Sully

I'm more of a Bradley fan than most, so I'd want more than that.  We're not going to get it, though. 

If we somehow ended up with #12 and #16, though, is that enough to get us up to #8?  While I recognize that Chicago got #11 for #16 and #19, it's a lot harder to move up that much when you are exchanging for the #8 than for the #11, especially in a draft where there are eight or nine potential superstars and then the talent level drops.

Mike

Re: Possibility of moving up in the draft
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2015, 04:23:06 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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I think Charlotte and Detroit, provided they stay at the back of the top 10, should be ripe candidates for a trade-up.

Both teams desperately lack competent guards and power forwards who can spread the floor.

Guess what the Celtics have up the wazoo?
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Re: Possibility of moving up in the draft
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2015, 04:36:16 PM »

Offline LooseCannon

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I think it is unlikely unless Marcus Smart is part of the deal.  Teams in that spot are generally looking for star potential and Smart is the player on the Celtics roster who might convince another team that they are maximizing their chances of getting a star if they trade out of the top ten.
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Re: Possibility of moving up in the draft
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2015, 04:51:57 PM »

Offline Lucky17

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I think Charlotte and Detroit, provided they stay at the back of the top 10, should be ripe candidates for a trade-up.

Both teams desperately lack competent guards and power forwards who can spread the floor.

Guess what the Celtics have up the wazoo?

Wonder if Detroit might be interested in Sully as a frontcourt partner for Drummond.

Not sure about matching contracts. Cartier Martin has a player option, not sure what Shawne Williams' contract situation (team?) is beyond this year.

Unless Ainge tries something outside the box including Brandon Jennings?
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Re: Possibility of moving up in the draft
« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2015, 05:29:15 PM »

Offline mahcus smaht

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Itll take some luck for sure
1-5 you wont get without Smart
11-14 I think you could get just using 16 and 28  or 16 and 2 seconds. If you go back through the last 10 drafts this tends to be the value:to move up from 15-20 to 10-15 costs either a late 1 or 2 2s.
6-10 is where the real prospects lie. Four of Winslow, WCS, Hezonja, Prozingis, Johnson
will be there. Honestly I even like these guys better than the 1-4 group.

Each team has plusses and minuses with trading with us

Sacremento:
+'s
Under pressure to accelerate winning
need starting 4/ 4 that stretches floor (KO & Sully and many stretch 4s available at 16)
Need pg of future Payne, Grant, Jones, Wright could all be available at 16 as well
Already well stocked at wing and C positions ( Mario, WInslow, Johnson, WCS)
-'s
Prozingis hard to pass up
they give up an opportunity at 3-4 guys with star potential

Denver
not happening makes no sense for them from what I can tell

Detroit
+'s
need stretch 4 to play with Drummond (KO/Sully), lots available at 16
-'s
Have huge need at SF (Johnson, Hezonja)trade only happens if both are gone I would think. If they dont like Prozingis and Winslow, Hezonja, Johnson go 5,6,7 (unlikely) this could work

Charlotte(my target)
+'s
AB is good fit
Already have top 10 picks from last 4 drafts at pg, sf, pf, c
MKG and Johnson fairly redundant
Have had 4 straight top 10 picks, perhaps look for vet talent
Looking to move Lance's contract
-'s
If Hezonja drops could be excellent fit


Miami
+'s
If plan is to bring back Wade, Dragic, Deng, Bosh team is very old and very top heavy with no   money to add FA's. It may make sense to add a few decent young guys rather than take a big swing at a guy who could fail. If they add 16 and 28 they can get Portis and Dakari Johnson who will certainly play a role at the next level.
AB could be good Wade insurance/would greatly improve youth and bench
Sully/KO could be valuable as Bosh is a question mark
-'s
The 5 I outlined could well be gone by now
If Johnson falls he makes a lot of sense for them
Reilly understands this is a star driven league

Ill do 11-14 quickly
Indiana
+'s
Looking to jump right back to contention
Want different Center/bigs Zeller and KO could be appealing
Pretty old team, like Miami could look to pick up quantity rather than swing for fences(unlikely)
-'s
elite prospects probably gone Turner and Oubre could really bust

Utah
+'s
Looking to make jump from talent collection to competing
Love AB
Sully/KO make some sense as 3rd bigs in Gobert, Favors frontcourt
Have two top 1- picks at pg and sf,pf, c all occupied by good starters. Not really any worthwhile 2s in this draft outside of top 8 picks and Oubre who is a huge project
-'s
studs certainly gone by now, you are taking a risk on Oubre or Turner most likely
Very young team, may not be interested in adding quantity of draft picks
Could be dissatisfied with Exum Burke at pg


Phoenix
+'s
Ainge's friend
Probably cheap(if moving from 16 rather than acquiring to use with 16)
Have PF issue with Morris bros having legal issues (IDK any details on this)
If Morris Bros arent issue, set at PG and PF which are strongest areas here
3 is biggest need and RHJ is probably next best 3 and he wont go untill 20s
-'s
Not moving up real far

Thunder
+'s looking to immediately return to competitive levels
+AB would be tremendous fit
+Probably lose Kanter, could use good frontcourt scorer (Sully+ guys available at 16)
+They wouldnt move down much
+Could be had for probably just a future #2 or 2
-'s
We only move up 2 picks
Only worth it if we could get a guy like Steven Adams in with it
Cheap option, probably would need to sacrifice vet talent

I bolded the 2 best options for us. I think 12 could be had for AB or Sully/KO and either 28 or 33 or both.
I think Charlotte could be something like proposed earlier in Lance and 9 for AB and 28 or AB and 16 but that all depends on how you feel about Lance so thats always going to be a polarizing proposal.

Re: Possibility of moving up in the draft
« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2015, 05:34:29 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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I think it is unlikely unless Marcus Smart is part of the deal.  Teams in that spot are generally looking for star potential and Smart is the player on the Celtics roster who might convince another team that they are maximizing their chances of getting a star if they trade out of the top ten.


I think Charlotte and Detroit are two teams who may be content to get some quality pieces to help them reach the playoffs, instead of feeling a need to swing for the fences.  Unlikely that any true "star potential" players will be there at the back of the top 10, but there may be a couple names that make sense for the Celts -- e.g. Stanley Johnson and WCS.


It wouldn't shock me if Danny were willing to take on Brandon Jennings in a surprise twist and move Smart to the 2.
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Re: Possibility of moving up in the draft
« Reply #11 on: May 08, 2015, 11:02:27 AM »

Offline Jvalin

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What about packaging Smart with #16 (plus other assets?) for D’Angelo Russell? Would it be worth it?
« Last Edit: May 08, 2015, 11:14:19 AM by Jvalin »

Re: Possibility of moving up in the draft
« Reply #12 on: May 08, 2015, 11:19:39 AM »

Online Donoghus

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What about packaging Smart with #16 (plus other assets?) for D’Angelo Russell? Would it be worth it?

Seems like an overpay.

Trading the #6 pick in last year's draft plus #16 AND "other assets" to nab a guy that is being mocked around 3-5?  For another guard?


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Re: Possibility of moving up in the draft
« Reply #13 on: May 08, 2015, 11:20:44 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
Both teams desperately lack competent guards and power forwards who can spread the floor
  Send them Sullinger  or KO and 16 for 10?  Nothing to stop DET from taking Turner or Portis over them though.

Re: Possibility of moving up in the draft
« Reply #14 on: May 08, 2015, 11:31:31 AM »

Offline mef730

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Itll take some luck for sure
1-5 you wont get without Smart
11-14 I think you could get just using 16 and 28  or 16 and 2 seconds. If you go back through the last 10 drafts this tends to be the value:to move up from 15-20 to 10-15 costs either a late 1 or 2 2s.
6-10 is where the real prospects lie. Four of Winslow, WCS, Hezonja, Prozingis, Johnson
will be there. Honestly I even like these guys better than the 1-4 group.

Each team has plusses and minuses with trading with us

Sacremento:
+'s
Under pressure to accelerate winning
need starting 4/ 4 that stretches floor (KO & Sully and many stretch 4s available at 16)
Need pg of future Payne, Grant, Jones, Wright could all be available at 16 as well
Already well stocked at wing and C positions ( Mario, WInslow, Johnson, WCS)
-'s
Prozingis hard to pass up
they give up an opportunity at 3-4 guys with star potential

Denver
not happening makes no sense for them from what I can tell

Detroit
+'s
need stretch 4 to play with Drummond (KO/Sully), lots available at 16
-'s
Have huge need at SF (Johnson, Hezonja)trade only happens if both are gone I would think. If they dont like Prozingis and Winslow, Hezonja, Johnson go 5,6,7 (unlikely) this could work

Charlotte(my target)
+'s
AB is good fit
Already have top 10 picks from last 4 drafts at pg, sf, pf, c
MKG and Johnson fairly redundant
Have had 4 straight top 10 picks, perhaps look for vet talent
Looking to move Lance's contract
-'s
If Hezonja drops could be excellent fit


Miami
+'s
If plan is to bring back Wade, Dragic, Deng, Bosh team is very old and very top heavy with no   money to add FA's. It may make sense to add a few decent young guys rather than take a big swing at a guy who could fail. If they add 16 and 28 they can get Portis and Dakari Johnson who will certainly play a role at the next level.
AB could be good Wade insurance/would greatly improve youth and bench
Sully/KO could be valuable as Bosh is a question mark
-'s
The 5 I outlined could well be gone by now
If Johnson falls he makes a lot of sense for them
Reilly understands this is a star driven league

Ill do 11-14 quickly
Indiana
+'s
Looking to jump right back to contention
Want different Center/bigs Zeller and KO could be appealing
Pretty old team, like Miami could look to pick up quantity rather than swing for fences(unlikely)
-'s
elite prospects probably gone Turner and Oubre could really bust

Utah
+'s
Looking to make jump from talent collection to competing
Love AB
Sully/KO make some sense as 3rd bigs in Gobert, Favors frontcourt
Have two top 1- picks at pg and sf,pf, c all occupied by good starters. Not really any worthwhile 2s in this draft outside of top 8 picks and Oubre who is a huge project
-'s
studs certainly gone by now, you are taking a risk on Oubre or Turner most likely
Very young team, may not be interested in adding quantity of draft picks
Could be dissatisfied with Exum Burke at pg


Phoenix
+'s
Ainge's friend
Probably cheap(if moving from 16 rather than acquiring to use with 16)
Have PF issue with Morris bros having legal issues (IDK any details on this)
If Morris Bros arent issue, set at PG and PF which are strongest areas here
3 is biggest need and RHJ is probably next best 3 and he wont go untill 20s
-'s
Not moving up real far

Thunder
+'s looking to immediately return to competitive levels
+AB would be tremendous fit
+Probably lose Kanter, could use good frontcourt scorer (Sully+ guys available at 16)
+They wouldnt move down much
+Could be had for probably just a future #2 or 2
-'s
We only move up 2 picks
Only worth it if we could get a guy like Steven Adams in with it
Cheap option, probably would need to sacrifice vet talent

I bolded the 2 best options for us. I think 12 could be had for AB or Sully/KO and either 28 or 33 or both.
I think Charlotte could be something like proposed earlier in Lance and 9 for AB and 28 or AB and 16 but that all depends on how you feel about Lance so thats always going to be a polarizing proposal.

With the knowledge that most of my comments are irrelevant until we see who gets picked on draft night...

Appreciate the time you put into this.  TP for the fun read.

In terms of trading up to the 8-14 range, we have a couple of good examples from 2013: #16 plus 2-seconds for #13, and #14 plus #21 for #9.  Given that the perceived talent in this draft in the 8-14 range, however, is higher than the perception at that time of the 2013 group (And the irony that the 10-15 group in 2013 has easily outplayed picks 1-5 is not lost on me.), I'm not sure that #16 plus the 2-seconds gets us to that #13 again, even though I would argue that there is a pretty significant drop-off after #12.

I may get shot for saying this, but I happen to really like AB.  I'm reluctant to trade him unless it gets me into the Top 8 or so, depending on who falls.  That puts us in Detroit territory, and they would rather have a 4.  KO/JS plus #16 won't get the job done.  I'd consider Charlotte at #9, but I'm not sure they would.  I'd love #6 from SAC, but I don't know what it will take to get the job done.  AB+16?  Depends on how close they feel they are to winning. 

Truthfully, I would have no problem sticking with #16 and hoping that Lyles drops.  His value would be a lot higher if he had started anywhere else.

Mike