Why the Celts Have No Chance at Cousins

[PhoSita]

I agree. The Celts don't have a chance right now.  If somehow the 2016 Brooklyn pick is top 3, then they're in business.

Yeah, I think that's the only way, next summer.

[Csfan1984]

Oh course there is a chance. Only real issue is price. The Celtics and other teams will balk at the King's ransom being demanded. Cousins is probably viewed as a Rasheed Wallace more than Z-Bo. Good player that can be great when in the right mood. Karl would ship him out but it's easier to be a buyer with the 6th pick and that roster than to be the seller. He has Gay, Cousins and McLemore why not ship out the 6th, Staukas and salary fillers for Faried and Lawson. Just like that King's are a playoff team.

[Tr1boy]

All this for a guy that has not made the playoffs and whines like a baby on the court

[PhoSita]

Cousins is a lot better than either Sheed or ZBo ever were, as much as I respect those guys.  If you want to look at the list of centers who have put up 24 and 12 before their 25th birthday, it's entirely comprised of Hall of Famers.

He's probably the best scorer at the center position in the league and he's also made the leap to become a very good defensive player as well.  He's a bona fide superstar, even though he hasn't dragged Rudy Gay and a bunch of cast offs to a playoff berth in a stacked Western Conference.

[Csfan1984]

Cousins is a lot better than either Sheed or ZBo ever were, as much as I respect those guys.  If you want to look at the list of centers who have put up 24 and 12 before their 25th birthday, it's entirely comprised of Hall of Famers.

He's probably the best scorer at the center position in the league and he's also made the leap to become a very good defensive player as well.  He's a bona fide superstar, even though he hasn't dragged Rudy Gay and a bunch of cast offs to a playoff berth in a stacked Western Conference.

You really want to compare Cousins numbers in a era in which centers pretty much suck? Prime Shaq or Hakeem would score 40 a game today

[LooseCannon]

I'd like people to do a little exercise:  Imagine that the Celtics have the Kings' roster.  What sort of return would you want to not be displeased with Ainge trading Demarcus Cousins away?

[CoachBo]

If Cousins decides he wants to be traded, he'll be traded - and the price will come down.

[Csfan1984]

I'd like people to do a little exercise:  Imagine that the Celtics have the Kings' roster.  What sort of return would you want to not be displeased with Ainge trading Demarcus Cousins away?

Once you look at their roster you think trade the 6th pick, Staukas and fillers for Faried and Lawson don't deal Cousins.

[PhoSita]

I'd like people to do a little exercise:  Imagine that the Celtics have the Kings' roster.  What sort of return would you want to not be displeased with Ainge trading Demarcus Cousins away?

I'd be displeased with the situation regardless, unless I guess the return was Lebron, Durant, Curry, or Anthony Davis.

But if he had to get traded, I'd only be satisfied with a top 5 pick (in a good draft), a prospect with high upside or an established young player, and additional future draft assets.


Example: 2015 Top 5 pick, Vucevic, and a future first round pick.

As for this notion that Shaq or Hakeem would score 40 per game in today's league, I think the opposite is true, actually.  It's tougher than ever for centers to score a large percentage of their teams points because of the emphasis on perimeter play and spread pick and roll offense.

 You don't see teams having their center set up shop on the block and get 20 or 30 post up opportunities a game.

[Csfan1984]

I'd like people to do a little exercise:  Imagine that the Celtics have the Kings' roster.  What sort of return would you want to not be displeased with Ainge trading Demarcus Cousins away?

I'd be displeased with the situation regardless, unless I guess the return was Lebron, Durant, Curry, or Anthony Davis.

But if he had to get traded, I'd only be satisfied with a top 5 pick (in a good draft), a prospect with high upside or an established young player, and additional future draft assets.


As for this notion that Shaq or Hakeem would score 40 per game in today's league, I think the opposite is true, actually.  It's tougher than ever for centers to score a large percentage of their teams points because of the emphasis on perimeter play and spread pick and roll offense.

 You don't see teams having their center set up shop on the block and get 20 or 30 post up opportunities a game.

Because they can't  they aren't good.

[PhoSita]

I'd like people to do a little exercise:  Imagine that the Celtics have the Kings' roster.  What sort of return would you want to not be displeased with Ainge trading Demarcus Cousins away?

I'd be displeased with the situation regardless, unless I guess the return was Lebron, Durant, Curry, or Anthony Davis.

But if he had to get traded, I'd only be satisfied with a top 5 pick (in a good draft), a prospect with high upside or an established young player, and additional future draft assets.


As for this notion that Shaq or Hakeem would score 40 per game in today's league, I think the opposite is true, actually.  It's tougher than ever for centers to score a large percentage of their teams points because of the emphasis on perimeter play and spread pick and roll offense.

 You don't see teams having their center set up shop on the block and get 20 or 30 post up opportunities a game.

Because they can't  they aren't good.

I guess you can decide to look at it that way, but I think it ignores all of the changes that have occurred in the league over the last 15 to 20 years and suggests a general lack of understanding of the talent in the league and how the game is played today.

But suit yourself.

[Csfan1984]

I'd like people to do a little exercise:  Imagine that the Celtics have the Kings' roster.  What sort of return would you want to not be displeased with Ainge trading Demarcus Cousins away?

I'd be displeased with the situation regardless, unless I guess the return was Lebron, Durant, Curry, or Anthony Davis.

But if he had to get traded, I'd only be satisfied with a top 5 pick (in a good draft), a prospect with high upside or an established young player, and additional future draft assets.


As for this notion that Shaq or Hakeem would score 40 per game in today's league, I think the opposite is true, actually.  It's tougher than ever for centers to score a large percentage of their teams points because of the emphasis on perimeter play and spread pick and roll offense.

 You don't see teams having their center set up shop on the block and get 20 or 30 post up opportunities a game.

Because they can't  they aren't good.

I guess you can decide to look at it that way, but I think it ignores all of the changes that have occurred in the league over the last 15 to 20 years and suggests a general lack of understanding of the talent in the league and how the game is played today.

But suit yourself.

Wait wasn't I the one to bring up talent change? Smh

[PhoSita]

The wing and guard talent is much different today than it was 20 years ago, and the game as a whole is more perimeter oriented.

I think there are a number of big men who could play center and average 20 to 25 points per game on postups if a team was really determined to build their offense that way, but it wouldn't be to the team's benefit.

What makes Cousins so good is that he can operate pretty much any way you might want your center to operate offensively.  He's also a dominant rebounder and a very good defender.

Look, I don't think Cousins is on the same level as Shaq and Duncan and Hakeem.  But he's a lot better than Sheed and ZBo. 

Sheed probably had the talent to be as good as DMC, but went the way of Josh Smith instead.  ZBo was, and still is, very good, but he is a pure power forward who has never had a reliable jumper or an ability to anchor a defense.

[Csfan1984]

The wing and guard talent is much different today than it was 20 years ago, and the game as a whole is more perimeter oriented.

I think there are a number of big men who could play center and average 20 to 25 points per game on postups if a team was really determined to build their offense that way, but it wouldn't be to the team's benefit.

What makes Cousins so good is that he can operate pretty much any way you might want your center to operate offensively.  He's also a dominant rebounder and a very good defender.

Look, I don't think Cousins is on the same level as Shaq and Duncan and Hakeem.  But he's a lot better than Sheed and ZBo. 

Sheed probably had the talent to be as good as DMC, but went the way of Josh Smith instead.  ZBo was, and still is, very good, but he is a pure power forward who has never had a reliable jumper or an ability to anchor a defense.

Well the careers are not over we are assuming Cousins remains the same. Doesnt implode on the Kings or another team as Sheed eventually did. Also with your view on how the game has changed wouldn't that mean Center has less value?

[tstorey_97]

I disagree on the Orlando offer. Vucevick at 11 RPG/19.3 PPG is a keeper for the Magic, they don't need to give up assets to get DMC....they just need to do something else.

As far as creating deals featuring four of the Celtics young players and draft picks is fine, I just don't see it as realistic for the other team....at all....in any deal.

Olynyk doesn't have much value. He needs a team, system and coach to peak out.
Smart is really good, but, today's NBA seems to be tilted in favor of "scoring machine" guards and Marcus is weak in that area....I'm sure he will improve.
Zeller isn't going to get a lot in return.
Sully is my favorite, but, if he's the third best guy on the court, is his team a top contender?
Are we sure we get Crowder signed? I hope so, is Crowder a starter on a top playoff team?

I think the "Nets picks" discussion is the gig for Celtics fans right now. Ainge will use the Nets picks and some current assets to get our starting front court player...somehow.

DMC might be too expensive to the team who gets him....I wish it was the Celtics.