Author Topic: Nets are NBA's Most Hopeless Franchise  (Read 12129 times)

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Re: Nets are NBA's Most Hopeless Franchise
« Reply #45 on: May 03, 2015, 02:42:18 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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That's all well and good, but they could win 50 games next year and I wouldn't be surprised.   Just depends on what happens with Lopez and Thadeus.   With both those guys healthy, they should be a playoff team again next year.

LarBrd33 =  Nets are a potential 50 win team. 

LarBrd33 =  Celtics are a 30 win team.

All you need to know.
Both teams could look different next year, but as-is I stand by that.   Brooklyn would have beat Boston in the playoffs this year. 

Brooklyn finished the season on a 56 win pace.  Boston was great down the stretch too, but relied more on the element of surprise.    Brooklyn underachieved last year.  Boston overachieved.   Brooklyn has far more talent right now.
What!? thats the best excuse you could come up with for bostons equally good stretch which was 2x as long?

Second, you meant to say, "I think Brooklyn would have beat Boston in the playoffs this year" because you have no idea. The Hawks played the Nets twice in the final month of the season and beat them by 32 points and then by 3 without Paul Milsapp. Brooklyn relied on their "element of surprise" to take 2 games against Atlanta.

Boston has 2 1st round draft picks both higher than Brooklyns one first rounder, the only really valuable piece they could lose to FA is Crowder, they have 27 mil in cap space, and their entire core is improving/ in their primes. Brooklyn on the other hand, their best player could well be lost to FA or injury, Williams and Johnson are sure to be worse, and they had a worse record than us this year!!!!

You of all people love to talk about how rondo dragged us down and he did. We were less healthy than Brooklyn this year, we dealt with more change, we have a far superrior coach, we actually have avenues to improve.

Also as a part of their 13-6 string that you mentioned is a 20 point loss to the Boston Celtics in Brooklyn.

also there are better excuses than "element of surprise" Toronto, Milwakee, Cleveland, all rested guys.

There will be change in the offseason that much is for sure. The problem is that Boston has like 10 avenues to improve and brooklyn can really only hope to tread water.

This is relevant to the discussion.

For me Boston this year was really a 32ish win team hidden in a terrible east with some good fortune down the stretch. Brooklyn for me was a 30ish win team who had the same fortune.
Quote from: George W. Bush
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Re: Nets are NBA's Most Hopeless Franchise
« Reply #46 on: May 03, 2015, 03:05:16 PM »

Offline wahz

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Potential Auerbachian moves by Danny.

As others have said in the thread, BKN could win 50 games next season and the pick will be moot.

But they could also miss the playoffs entirely....no certainty with BKN at all.

If we could get a few big or mid-tier names soon, make the playoffs again next year, AND have lottery picks that would be GREAT.

This would remind me of the mid 80's when Red Auerbach swung those deals that turned into Len Bias...the amazing thing is that as I look back we had "just" won Banner 16 AND we had the number 2 pick.

This time around, won't be any sad stories. Smooth sailing ahead THIS time around.

And the Celtics have every reason to win now so that the Nets are behind them in the standings. 

Re: Nets are NBA's Most Hopeless Franchise
« Reply #47 on: May 03, 2015, 03:11:01 PM »

Offline Eigild

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That's all well and good, but they could win 50 games next year and I wouldn't be surprised.   Just depends on what happens with Lopez and Thadeus.   With both those guys healthy, they should be a playoff team again next year.

LarBrd33 =  Nets are a potential 50 win team. 

LarBrd33 =  Celtics are a 30 win team.

All you need to know.
Both teams could look different next year, but as-is I stand by that.   Brooklyn would have beat Boston in the playoffs this year. 

Brooklyn finished the season on a 56 win pace.  Boston was great down the stretch too, but relied more on the element of surprise.    Brooklyn underachieved last year.  Boston overachieved.   Brooklyn has far more talent right now.
What!? thats the best excuse you could come up with for bostons equally good stretch which was 2x as long?

Second, you meant to say, "I think Brooklyn would have beat Boston in the playoffs this year" because you have no idea. The Hawks played the Nets twice in the final month of the season and beat them by 32 points and then by 3 without Paul Milsapp. Brooklyn relied on their "element of surprise" to take 2 games against Atlanta.

Boston has 2 1st round draft picks both higher than Brooklyns one first rounder, the only really valuable piece they could lose to FA is Crowder, they have 27 mil in cap space, and their entire core is improving/ in their primes. Brooklyn on the other hand, their best player could well be lost to FA or injury, Williams and Johnson are sure to be worse, and they had a worse record than us this year!!!!

You of all people love to talk about how rondo dragged us down and he did. We were less healthy than Brooklyn this year, we dealt with more change, we have a far superrior coach, we actually have avenues to improve.

Also as a part of their 13-6 string that you mentioned is a 20 point loss to the Boston Celtics in Brooklyn.

also there are better excuses than "element of surprise" Toronto, Milwakee, Cleveland, all rested guys.

There will be change in the offseason that much is for sure. The problem is that Boston has like 10 avenues to improve and brooklyn can really only hope to tread water.

This is relevant to the discussion.

For me Boston this year was really a 32ish win team hidden in a terrible east with some good fortune down the stretch. Brooklyn for me was a 30ish win team who had the same fortune.

LarBrd33 is not just a pessimist now, he's trolling.

Re: Nets are NBA's Most Hopeless Franchise
« Reply #48 on: May 03, 2015, 03:27:52 PM »

Offline BDeCosta26

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Lol ;D, did anyone else see this?

http://fantasynews.cbssports.com/fantasybasketball/update/25171781/nets-coach-lionel-hollins-deron-williams-no-longer-a-franchise-player

Quote
Nets coach Lionel Hollins said that his point guard Deron Williams is a solid player, but shouldn't be expected to be a franchise player any longer.

"He's not a franchise player anymore," Hollins said during his exit interview Saturday morning, per ESPN. "He's a good player, he's a solid player, but I don't think he's a franchise player anymore. That's just my opinion. He's a good player. I'm proud of the way he's bounced back and played, and there's so much pressure on him to be a franchise player, and everybody talks about a franchise player, but we need to have a franchise team.

BOOM, ahaha ;D!

They should rephrase it as, "Lionel Hollins states what the world already knew 2 years ago"

Seriously though, when your coach not only says you're not a franchise player but that you're not a franchise player anymore, that hurts. He basically said we invested in the wrong guy. Sounds like team unity to me.

Whether or not things get better or worse for the Nets, one thing is clear: They built that team to be a contender, and they have failed miserably.

Yeah, especially in the sense that Lopez and Williams are whiners, injury prone, and no one has that KG-Pierce fire.  Joe Johnson has it, imo, but he never says anything or shows it, so they need a guy to not only bring that competitive zeal, but display it, imo.  It'd also be nice if Hollins ever played young guys, because Markel Brown could have been a big help in that past series, again, imo, but he rarely got playing time.  Hollins is like Doc and KC Jones that way.  Ugh.  You can tell that their philosophy essentially is, "look, we're a contender, so you're not going to get any run here, no matter how good you are.  If you want to develop, go somewhere else and make it another coach's problem, and then come back if you're good enough.  I don't have time for this." ::) Idiots, and they only make it worse by then saying after a guy moves on that, "well, he wasn't really part of the team and didn't seem interested to be here."  Well, duh.  You can practice all you want, but if you never play, what's the point?  Look at James Young.  When he got time and scored 13 points, iirc, he was so enthusiastic and happy because he actually got a chance to play, only to be sent back to the d-league for the rest of the year.  You could see the change in him during the last game of the year - he wasn't enjoying himself out there, and he frankly looked scared, which is no way to develop talent, imo.  Just give the guys big minutes and see what happens instead of just wasting a year of his career. *facepalm* Seriously, look at how engaged and joyful he was here.  Sigh.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TCOEzsb9wQ

That's not why those guys do that, and that's not why Young didn't play much for is this year. There was a period after the Green/Rondo trades where he was getting a solid 10-15 minutes a game, but he was only be asked to hit 3s, and his shot wasn't falling. Thus, he didn't get more playing time, because he didn't produce in the Time he got.

Maybe, if your really gonna suck anyways, you can throw a guy like Smart out there as a rookie for 35 minutes a game, hand him he keys and see what he can do. But you can't do that with a not-at-all NBA ready 19 year old James Young. Especially on a team that is trying to win like we were, and on a team that has a good, young back-court to begin with. Kid needs to build confidence at the 2, cause he's not strong enough or smart enough to play defense against the other 3's in this league. So what do you do? Cut our guards minutes? Just can't do that. Maybe CBS should've let him keep getting the 10 mpg when IT came back from his injury but you can't blame him, they were trying to win games.

The Celtics are officially done tanking. I'm pretty sure that's safe to say now, for better or for worse were going forward trying to win as many games as we can. 

Re: Nets are NBA's Most Hopeless Franchise
« Reply #49 on: May 03, 2015, 03:36:19 PM »

Offline BDeCosta26

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Potential Auerbachian moves by Danny.

As others have said in the thread, BKN could win 50 games next season and the pick will be moot.

But they could also miss the playoffs entirely....no certainty with BKN at all.

If we could get a few big or mid-tier names soon, make the playoffs again next year, AND have lottery picks that would be GREAT.

This would remind me of the mid 80's when Red Auerbach swung those deals that turned into Len Bias...the amazing thing is that as I look back we had "just" won Banner 16 AND we had the number 2 pick.

This time around, won't be any sad stories. Smooth sailing ahead THIS time around.

And the Celtics have every reason to win now so that the Nets are behind them in the standings.

Really. Even of they all turn out to be in the 10-20 range. I still can't believe we got THAT much for a fading Pierce, a guy who used to be called Jason Terry and the corpse of KG.

We got Wallace, Young, Zeller, Thomas and three more unprotected picks from them. That's just crazy. I'm praying Lopez opts out. If he leaves, even if Young resigns, what are the chances they sign a guy that good? After everything Pierce said about them? Almost nil. If he leaves they could very well be at bottom 5ish team without trying, especially if Young goes with him. Even if they both stay, I'm still confident next years pick from them is somewhere in the top 12. Considering all the hypothetical moves we can make to move up this year, imagine what it'll be like next year.

Re: Nets are NBA's Most Hopeless Franchise
« Reply #50 on: May 03, 2015, 03:47:19 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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That's all well and good, but they could win 50 games next year and I wouldn't be surprised.   Just depends on what happens with Lopez and Thadeus.   With both those guys healthy, they should be a playoff team again next year.

LarBrd33 =  Nets are a potential 50 win team. 

LarBrd33 =  Celtics are a 30 win team.

All you need to know.
Both teams could look different next year, but as-is I stand by that.   Brooklyn would have beat Boston in the playoffs this year. 

Brooklyn finished the season on a 56 win pace.  Boston was great down the stretch too, but relied more on the element of surprise.    Brooklyn underachieved last year.  Boston overachieved.   Brooklyn has far more talent right now.
What!? thats the best excuse you could come up with for bostons equally good stretch which was 2x as long?

Second, you meant to say, "I think Brooklyn would have beat Boston in the playoffs this year" because you have no idea. The Hawks played the Nets twice in the final month of the season and beat them by 32 points and then by 3 without Paul Milsapp. Brooklyn relied on their "element of surprise" to take 2 games against Atlanta.

Boston has 2 1st round draft picks both higher than Brooklyns one first rounder, the only really valuable piece they could lose to FA is Crowder, they have 27 mil in cap space, and their entire core is improving/ in their primes. Brooklyn on the other hand, their best player could well be lost to FA or injury, Williams and Johnson are sure to be worse, and they had a worse record than us this year!!!!

You of all people love to talk about how rondo dragged us down and he did. We were less healthy than Brooklyn this year, we dealt with more change, we have a far superrior coach, we actually have avenues to improve.

Also as a part of their 13-6 string that you mentioned is a 20 point loss to the Boston Celtics in Brooklyn.

also there are better excuses than "element of surprise" Toronto, Milwakee, Cleveland, all rested guys.

There will be change in the offseason that much is for sure. The problem is that Boston has like 10 avenues to improve and brooklyn can really only hope to tread water.

This is relevant to the discussion.

For me Boston this year was really a 32ish win team hidden in a terrible east with some good fortune down the stretch. Brooklyn for me was a 30ish win team who had the same fortune.

LarBrd33 is not just a pessimist now, he's trolling.
I acknowledge that we beat them towards the end of the season and finished just as hot, but I stand by it.   We got swept handily by the 2nd seed and they took the top seed to 6 games.  Boston's interior defense is atrocious.   In a 4 game series, Lopez and the Nets would beat us.  It's not really relevant, though.  Who cares?   I've already said as-is, this Celtic team probably wins 30-45 games.   That's likely what we can expect from Brooklyn next season as well.  All I said is that I wouldn't be shocked to see the Nets win 50.   The premise of this article is that the Nets are doomed and are on the verge of bottoming out.  I don't buy it.   

Whether or not Boston is better than Brooklyn is an irrelevant conversation.   All that matters is that Boston owns their picks for the next 3 years.   I see the pick ending up 12-17 next year.  Wouldn't be shocked to see it over 18.  They have talent on that roster.

FYI, people have been expecting Brooklyn to bottom out for two years.   They made the playoffs in spite of this.   This "Brooklyn is doomed" stuff is hardly a new idea.   They have made the playoffs 3 years in a row and I expect them to be a playoff team next year as well if they keep their roster intact.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2015, 03:55:13 PM by LarBrd33 »

Re: Nets are NBA's Most Hopeless Franchise
« Reply #51 on: May 03, 2015, 04:10:35 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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That's all well and good, but they could win 50 games next year and I wouldn't be surprised.   Just depends on what happens with Lopez and Thadeus.   With both those guys healthy, they should be a playoff team again next year.

LarBrd33 =  Nets are a potential 50 win team. 

LarBrd33 =  Celtics are a 30 win team.

All you need to know.
Both teams could look different next year, but as-is I stand by that.   Brooklyn would have beat Boston in the playoffs this year. 

Brooklyn finished the season on a 56 win pace.  Boston was great down the stretch too, but relied more on the element of surprise.    Brooklyn underachieved last year.  Boston overachieved.   Brooklyn has far more talent right now.
What!? thats the best excuse you could come up with for bostons equally good stretch which was 2x as long?

Second, you meant to say, "I think Brooklyn would have beat Boston in the playoffs this year" because you have no idea. The Hawks played the Nets twice in the final month of the season and beat them by 32 points and then by 3 without Paul Milsapp. Brooklyn relied on their "element of surprise" to take 2 games against Atlanta.

Boston has 2 1st round draft picks both higher than Brooklyns one first rounder, the only really valuable piece they could lose to FA is Crowder, they have 27 mil in cap space, and their entire core is improving/ in their primes. Brooklyn on the other hand, their best player could well be lost to FA or injury, Williams and Johnson are sure to be worse, and they had a worse record than us this year!!!!

You of all people love to talk about how rondo dragged us down and he did. We were less healthy than Brooklyn this year, we dealt with more change, we have a far superrior coach, we actually have avenues to improve.

Also as a part of their 13-6 string that you mentioned is a 20 point loss to the Boston Celtics in Brooklyn.

also there are better excuses than "element of surprise" Toronto, Milwakee, Cleveland, all rested guys.

There will be change in the offseason that much is for sure. The problem is that Boston has like 10 avenues to improve and brooklyn can really only hope to tread water.

This is relevant to the discussion.

For me Boston this year was really a 32ish win team hidden in a terrible east with some good fortune down the stretch. Brooklyn for me was a 30ish win team who had the same fortune.

LarBrd33 is not just a pessimist now, he's trolling.
I acknowledge that we beat them towards the end of the season and finished just as hot, but I stand by it.   We got swept handily by the 2nd seed and they took the top seed to 6 games.  Boston's interior defense is atrocious.   In a 4 game series, Lopez and the Nets would beat us.  It's not really relevant, though.  Who cares?   I've already said as-is, this Celtic team probably wins 30-45 games.   That's likely what we can expect from Brooklyn next season as well.  All I said is that I wouldn't be shocked to see the Nets win 50.   The premise of this article is that the Nets are doomed and are on the verge of bottoming out.  I don't buy it.   

Whether or not Boston is better than Brooklyn is an irrelevant conversation.   All that matters is that Boston owns their picks for the next 3 years.   I see the pick ending up 12-17 next year.  Wouldn't be shocked to see it over 18.  They have talent on that roster.

FYI, people have been expecting Brooklyn to bottom out for two years.   They made the playoffs in spite of this.   This "Brooklyn is doomed" stuff is hardly a new idea.   They have made the playoffs 3 years in a row and I expect them to be a playoff team next year as well if they keep their roster intact.
No one expected them to bottom out last year. People expected them to bottom out this year and they showed some big time signs of decline. Did they underachieve or exceed expectations? you cant really have it both ways.

the whole discussion here is based on the fact that so many different things can ruin the Nets and nothing can really save them. At best they can tread water. They pick 29th, they have no cap space, their best guys are injury prone etc etc.

Sure if everything goes right for them then they are a playoff team but if any one of a number of things goes wrong then they will be in the lottery.

Thats where the optimism comes from. Not from the fact that they are a talentless bunch. Its that even in a relatively healthy season for their older players they still won just 39 games and they are nearly completely reliant on Brook Lopez to stay in Brooklyn and stay healthy.  That is a precarious situation. You are right that it doesnt matter who would win a series between us and Brooklyn.

Of the following 9 teams assuming everyone stays together as you have, which 2 teams does Brooklyn knock off to get that 8 seed. 

Atlanta
Cleveland
Chicago
Toronto
Washington
Milwakee
Boston
Indiana
Miami

For me the only team they could knock off is Boston and that's not even considering teams like Charlotte, New York, and Detroit who could all make big improvements this off-season.

1 last point. Only 3 Eastern Conference teams won 50 games this year. Atlanta, Cleveland, and Chicago.


Brooklyn seems a smidge out of place on that list.
Quote from: George W. Bush
Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Re: Nets are NBA's Most Hopeless Franchise
« Reply #52 on: May 03, 2015, 04:20:14 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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That's all well and good, but they could win 50 games next year and I wouldn't be surprised.   Just depends on what happens with Lopez and Thadeus.   With both those guys healthy, they should be a playoff team again next year.

LarBrd33 =  Nets are a potential 50 win team. 

LarBrd33 =  Celtics are a 30 win team.

All you need to know.
Both teams could look different next year, but as-is I stand by that.   Brooklyn would have beat Boston in the playoffs this year. 

Brooklyn finished the season on a 56 win pace.  Boston was great down the stretch too, but relied more on the element of surprise.    Brooklyn underachieved last year.  Boston overachieved.   Brooklyn has far more talent right now.
What!? thats the best excuse you could come up with for bostons equally good stretch which was 2x as long?

Second, you meant to say, "I think Brooklyn would have beat Boston in the playoffs this year" because you have no idea. The Hawks played the Nets twice in the final month of the season and beat them by 32 points and then by 3 without Paul Milsapp. Brooklyn relied on their "element of surprise" to take 2 games against Atlanta.

Boston has 2 1st round draft picks both higher than Brooklyns one first rounder, the only really valuable piece they could lose to FA is Crowder, they have 27 mil in cap space, and their entire core is improving/ in their primes. Brooklyn on the other hand, their best player could well be lost to FA or injury, Williams and Johnson are sure to be worse, and they had a worse record than us this year!!!!

You of all people love to talk about how rondo dragged us down and he did. We were less healthy than Brooklyn this year, we dealt with more change, we have a far superrior coach, we actually have avenues to improve.

Also as a part of their 13-6 string that you mentioned is a 20 point loss to the Boston Celtics in Brooklyn.

also there are better excuses than "element of surprise" Toronto, Milwakee, Cleveland, all rested guys.

There will be change in the offseason that much is for sure. The problem is that Boston has like 10 avenues to improve and brooklyn can really only hope to tread water.

This is relevant to the discussion.

For me Boston this year was really a 32ish win team hidden in a terrible east with some good fortune down the stretch. Brooklyn for me was a 30ish win team who had the same fortune.

LarBrd33 is not just a pessimist now, he's trolling.
I acknowledge that we beat them towards the end of the season and finished just as hot, but I stand by it.   We got swept handily by the 2nd seed and they took the top seed to 6 games.  Boston's interior defense is atrocious.   In a 4 game series, Lopez and the Nets would beat us.  It's not really relevant, though.  Who cares?   I've already said as-is, this Celtic team probably wins 30-45 games.   That's likely what we can expect from Brooklyn next season as well.  All I said is that I wouldn't be shocked to see the Nets win 50.   The premise of this article is that the Nets are doomed and are on the verge of bottoming out.  I don't buy it.   

Whether or not Boston is better than Brooklyn is an irrelevant conversation.   All that matters is that Boston owns their picks for the next 3 years.   I see the pick ending up 12-17 next year.  Wouldn't be shocked to see it over 18.  They have talent on that roster.

FYI, people have been expecting Brooklyn to bottom out for two years.   They made the playoffs in spite of this.   This "Brooklyn is doomed" stuff is hardly a new idea.   They have made the playoffs 3 years in a row and I expect them to be a playoff team next year as well if they keep their roster intact.
No one expected them to bottom out last year.
Last year, they started out the season 11-21 and everyone wrote them off expecting them to bottom out.  I wasn't convinced.  I said they'd probably rattle off 15 in a row.  Naturally, folks here scoffed.   They won 10 out of their next 11.   I was close.

Writing off the Nets is nothing new.   Prob a playoff team again next year.   I want them to stink as much as the next guy, but I'm not expecting it.  They are a talented team.  As long as they remain healthy, they will be fine.

As others have pointed out, they have no incentive to be bad.   They probably sneak into the playoffs in 2016 and then all bets are off since the cap jumps 20 mil in 2017 (and Joe Johnson will be off the books) and another 20 mil in 2018 (and Deron Williams will be off the books).   If there's any hope of getting a lotto pick out of them, it's in 2016.  After that, they could be a contender for all we know.   

The idea that Brooklyn is doomed and "hopeless" is one that doesn't take into account the changing landscape of the NBA salary cap. 

2016 - Assuming they keep Lopez and Thad - playoffs
2017 - Johnson falls off the books and the cap jumps to 87 mil - enough to sign a max deal
2018 - Deron falls off the books and the cap jumps to 109 mil - enough to sign two more max deals
« Last Edit: May 03, 2015, 04:27:28 PM by LarBrd33 »

Re: Nets are NBA's Most Hopeless Franchise
« Reply #53 on: May 03, 2015, 04:24:18 PM »

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Quote
Atlanta
Cleveland
Chicago
Toronto
Washington
Milwakee
Boston
Indiana
Miami

I don't think Miami are a sure thing. Bosh has serious medical condition. Wade is injury prone. I do not think their main guys fit together. This is a team that could end up anywhere from lottery to a top 4 seed. Wild card team.

I thought Milwaukee overachieved this year. I think they'll need major development from young guns just to hold onto where they currently.

Indiana are an interesting team. Trying to change their team's identity. Want to put Hibbert on the bench or trade him. David West a year older. Trying to change to a run and gun team. I think they are a wild card as well.

Then there is this Boston team. I still do not understand how they won as many games as they did over 2/3rds of the season. It was very impressive but I do not if they can sustain it.

I think Brooklyn is very much still in the mix for a playoff slot. The teams around them have some talent but they -- like Brooklyn -- have major question marks themselves.

Re: Nets are NBA's Most Hopeless Franchise
« Reply #54 on: May 03, 2015, 04:26:37 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Larbrd if you can do one thing please stop making posts that congratule yourself for some obscure prediction. You could very well be an amazing basketball mind with an uncanny ability to predict things, but nobody wants to constantly see this. The nets aren't going to finish second next year, they might not even win 40, but I definitely won't make a post proving you were wrong when it doesn't happen.

Re: Nets are NBA's Most Hopeless Franchise
« Reply #55 on: May 03, 2015, 04:33:20 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Larbrd if you can do one thing please stop making posts that congratule yourself for some obscure prediction. You could very well be an amazing basketball mind with an uncanny ability to predict things, but nobody wants to constantly see this. The nets aren't going to finish second next year, they might not even win 40, but I definitely won't make a post proving you were wrong when it doesn't happen.
I'm not predicting the Nets will finish 2nd next year.   Do me a favor clay, and try not to take that one out of context for the next 6 months.  I'd rather not see it pop up in every thread I comment in.  If you and potter want an insane LarBrd33 quote to keep reminding everyone of, stick with the one where I said Smart's ceiling is Noel's floor.   I'm rather proud of that bit of hyperbole. 

However, I am saying that (if the Nets resign Lopez and Thad), the pick they owe us should end up 12-17 next year.   I'm also saying that, while I don't expect it, I wouldn't be shocked to see them win 50 games and finish 2nd in the East.   FWIW, If the draft pick ends up better than 12, feel free to rub it in my face.  I welcome it.  Also, a personal thanks and TP for being a worthy successor to BBallTim.  Ever since he moved to Dallas, I've missed having someone constantly calling me out and nitpicking everything I say.  Keeps me on my toes.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2015, 04:39:06 PM by LarBrd33 »

Re: Nets are NBA's Most Hopeless Franchise
« Reply #56 on: May 03, 2015, 04:51:11 PM »

Offline mahcus smaht

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Larbrd if you can do one thing please stop making posts that congratule yourself for some obscure prediction. You could very well be an amazing basketball mind with an uncanny ability to predict things, but nobody wants to constantly see this. The nets aren't going to finish second next year, they might not even win 40, but I definitely won't make a post proving you were wrong when it doesn't happen.
I'm not predicting the Nets will finish 2nd next year.   Do me a favor clay, and try not to take that one out of context for the next 6 months.  I'd rather not see it pop up in every thread I comment in.  If you and potter want an insane LarBrd33 quote to keep reminding everyone of, stick with the one where I said Smart's ceiling is Noel's floor.   I'm rather proud of that bit of hyperbole. 

However, I am saying that (if the Nets resign Lopez and Thad), the pick they owe us should end up 12-17 next year.   I'm also saying that, while I don't expect it, I wouldn't be shocked to see them win 50 games and finish 2nd in the East.   FWIW, If the draft pick ends up better than 12, feel free to rub it in my face.  I welcome it.  Also, a personal thanks and TP for being a worthy successor to BBallTim.  Ever since he moved to Dallas, I've missed having someone constantly calling me out and nitpicking everything I say.  Keeps me on my toes.
Really you cant predict these picks because there are so many variables. I think its best to have this discussion after the draft and FA. As for trade value these picks have high ceilings as the nets could certainly bottom out if Lopez and young opt out and Williams or Johnson get hurt, and id say that for 2016 at least theres basically no way the picks arent top 20. Id expect teams to look at them with a baseline of about 12-15 but with a higher value than a typical 12-15 pick due to the top 10 upside.

Re: Nets are NBA's Most Hopeless Franchise
« Reply #57 on: May 04, 2015, 08:30:37 AM »

Offline Moranis

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Lopez played in 72 games last year.  Now yeah he was banged up a lot as he only started 44 games, but he still was healthy enough to play in the vast majority of Brooklyn's games.  He did only play in 17 games the year before, but the year before that he had 74 games.  I'd say there is a pretty good chance Lopez hits at least 70 games again, which means Brooklyn should be a pretty solid team.  Somewhere in the 40-45 win range. 
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: Nets are NBA's Most Hopeless Franchise
« Reply #58 on: May 04, 2015, 08:42:57 AM »

Offline slamtheking

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That's all well and good, but they could win 50 games next year and I wouldn't be surprised.   Just depends on what happens with Lopez and Thadeus.   With both those guys healthy, they should be a playoff team again next year.

Yup.  I agree.  People seem so sure that those future BRK picks are gonna be gold, but the Nets have no incentive to be bad and they still have those core guys who seem to find a way to win 35+ games every season.

The only way the Nets really go into the crapper is if they re-sign Lopez to a big deal and then he suffers a foot injury that ends his career.

The fact is, in the horrible East, it's just not very difficult to put together a 30-40 win team if you are willing to spend the maximum possible money to do it.
30-40 is not 50. 30-40 is possible and I would say probably (leaning closer to 30) but 50 is an absolute everything goes perfectly best case-scenario.

The east is bad but it of its top 6 teams only Toronto and Atlanta figure to step back and I expect both to remain in the top 6 next year anyway. We were better this year and have much easier avenues for improvement. As for the teams the finished ahead of:
Indiana: returns Paul George
Miami: very plausibly could return Dragic, Wade, Deng, Bosh, Whiteside, top 10 pick
Charlotte: not great but full of young talent wouldnt be surprised to see a reasonable improvement

Detroit: Returns Jennings, but could lose Monroe still hampered by Smith
Orlando: Payton, Oladipo, Gordon, Vucevic, #5 pick, cap space will be better
Philly: lots of assets but no plans on being good
New York: Returns Melo, top 5 pick, big FA destination
I made the teams in green those who are improving and could reasonably leap frog Brooklyn.
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The east is getting better, not worse. This is why we need to temper the expectations for the C's if they end up just running it back this year, but at least we have good talent. Brooklyn who is more likely to get worse than better was just 2 losses away from the tenth worst record in the NBA conversely nearly the entire East figures to get better.

I dont expect a top 6 pick. Thats tanker territory, but I do think 2016 Brooklyn is most likely to wind up in the 7-12 range which would be about 30 wins.
this --  Can't see the Nets making the playoffs next year much less winning 30 games.  While the Nets have no incentive to tank the next 3 years (unlike Philly who'll stink by choice for years to come) they don't seem to have much choice in the matter.  they have a lot of $ on the books for vets that don't play up to their contracts.  they don't have the $ for free agents (if they could attract them) and they don't have the draft picks to bring in young talent

Re: Nets are NBA's Most Hopeless Franchise
« Reply #59 on: May 04, 2015, 10:32:30 AM »

Offline farishmj16

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it'd be great if they would give up and start tanking