Author Topic: Why we need to overpay this summer  (Read 9159 times)

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Re: Why we need to overpay this summer
« Reply #45 on: May 04, 2015, 11:06:03 AM »

Offline acieEarl

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So do we even offer guys like Jordon, Leonard, and Aldridge max contract knowing that there team will most likely offer more? I think once you make and offer, we are kinda stuck waiting to see if there team offers more?

Re: Why we need to overpay this summer
« Reply #46 on: May 04, 2015, 11:08:37 AM »

Offline PhoSita

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Trading half our roster for Cousins makes no sense.  Why?  Because it won't be an option.

If Cousins becomes available, every team with top draft assets will be in on the chase.  Why not, when he has multiple years left on his deal?  Why wouldn't Philly offer Embiid and their top pick this summer, for example?  Why wouldn't the Lakers offer their top pick and Julius Randle?

The Celtics will not be able to compete.


It also makes no sense that Orlando would let Harris go. 

If a team with a very young roster, with relatively little salary commitment and no obvious replacements waiting in the wing, is willing to just let a 22 year old 17 ppg scorer with excellent size and shooting ability leave for nothing in restricted free agency ... that should tell you to stay away from the guy they're letting go.


So it looks like overpaying for the likes of Monroe and trading for Derozan or Gallinari or something like that is where this thing is headed.
Don't agree that Orlando is a given to match. Aaron Gordon plays a very similar role to Harris, if they feel that they can get better production out of a cheaper player, I could see them just keeping the cap space. Or at the very least agreeing to do a sign and trade to prevent the Magic from matching.

Aaron Gordon is very raw and probably makes more sense in a 20 mpg bench role for the meantime.

Anyway, why let Harris walk?  It's not like the salary cap is an issue for Orlando.  Why  not just match any offer for Harris, see if you can fit him into your long term plan, and if not, trade him for assets?  Is there concern that he'll be untradeable on a large deal?  If so, why should the Celtics sign him?

The Magic would let him walk if they set a price for him and he exceeds that price. If they don't believe he is worth more than $13 MM a year to them and decide not to match then they could move him. Teams have been known to draw a line in the sand when it comes to the price of a free agent.

I expect Harris to get expensive, which is why I can see him leaving.

Okay, but why?  What's the opportunity cost of signing him to 14 million a year?  Are the Magic planning to be players in free agency anytime soon?

Again, unless you think Harris might be untradeable at $14 million -- in which case, again, why sign him to that figure -- it makes no sense to simply let him walk.
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Re: Why we need to overpay this summer
« Reply #47 on: May 04, 2015, 11:10:35 AM »

Offline Hemingway

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So do we even offer guys like Jordon, Leonard, and Aldridge max contract knowing that there team will most likely offer more? I think once you make and offer, we are kinda stuck waiting to see if there team offers more?

I think Ainge just has to talk to their agents.

Re: Why we need to overpay this summer
« Reply #48 on: May 04, 2015, 11:11:26 AM »

Offline biggs

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So why wouldn't MIL just overpay Middleton? Monroe, I get; his team & situation sucks, so he might want out; but MIL has a nicer core/rebuild than us, so why would Middleton leave that situation?

This post also makes it sound like the trade market will just shrivel up and die.  Hoping that's not the case, as we have put all of our eggs into that pool of talent, and we have less valuable assets than other teams in the bottom to get players via a now dead trade market.

So, by your logic, the tankers like NYK and PHI have a better chance to land talent than us, because they have gathered more valuable assets than us, and have the cap-space that everyone will have to play with.
For example:NYK outbids us on Cousins, pairs him with Melo, then signs another one or TWO max contracts on top of that.

So the rich will get richer, the trade market will dissapear, and the tankers can outbid us.  Quite a Rosie picture you paint of our future. If this is really the way things are going moving forward, then the playoff run/national exposure/BS are the only assets we have to lure mal-content/potential stars.

Sorry if I'm ranting/being negative, but I feel like everyone in the league is aware of the salary cap evolution going on right now. So, essentially, under these circumstances, we need to find a mal-content free agent, then overpay for them, and hope to lure more mal-contents through free agency.

I guess what I'm saying is: wouldn't any team overpay this year, even if they take a cap hit for one year?

And the idea of CLE getting a fourth max contract guy is not only unfair, it's frightening how unbalanced the league could become with talent.
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Re: Why we need to overpay this summer
« Reply #49 on: May 04, 2015, 11:22:03 AM »

Offline Evantime34

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Trading half our roster for Cousins makes no sense.  Why?  Because it won't be an option.

If Cousins becomes available, every team with top draft assets will be in on the chase.  Why not, when he has multiple years left on his deal?  Why wouldn't Philly offer Embiid and their top pick this summer, for example?  Why wouldn't the Lakers offer their top pick and Julius Randle?

The Celtics will not be able to compete.


It also makes no sense that Orlando would let Harris go. 

If a team with a very young roster, with relatively little salary commitment and no obvious replacements waiting in the wing, is willing to just let a 22 year old 17 ppg scorer with excellent size and shooting ability leave for nothing in restricted free agency ... that should tell you to stay away from the guy they're letting go.


So it looks like overpaying for the likes of Monroe and trading for Derozan or Gallinari or something like that is where this thing is headed.
Don't agree that Orlando is a given to match. Aaron Gordon plays a very similar role to Harris, if they feel that they can get better production out of a cheaper player, I could see them just keeping the cap space. Or at the very least agreeing to do a sign and trade to prevent the Magic from matching.

Aaron Gordon is very raw and probably makes more sense in a 20 mpg bench role for the meantime.

Anyway, why let Harris walk?  It's not like the salary cap is an issue for Orlando.  Why  not just match any offer for Harris, see if you can fit him into your long term plan, and if not, trade him for assets?  Is there concern that he'll be untradeable on a large deal?  If so, why should the Celtics sign him?

The Magic would let him walk if they set a price for him and he exceeds that price. If they don't believe he is worth more than $13 MM a year to them and decide not to match then they could move him. Teams have been known to draw a line in the sand when it comes to the price of a free agent.

I expect Harris to get expensive, which is why I can see him leaving.

Okay, but why?  What's the opportunity cost of signing him to 14 million a year?  Are the Magic planning to be players in free agency anytime soon?

Again, unless you think Harris might be untradeable at $14 million -- in which case, again, why sign him to that figure -- it makes no sense to simply let him walk.
You're acting like general managers never let a player walk because the contract demand is too high? It has happened, and will happen again.

It makes no sense to you to let him walk, but general managers will often refuse to sign players at a rate higher than what they believe the player is worth, in order to save cap space for players they believe to be worthy of that money.
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Re: Why we need to overpay this summer
« Reply #50 on: May 04, 2015, 11:46:45 AM »

Offline BleedGreen1989

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Trading half our roster for Cousins makes no sense.  Why?  Because it won't be an option.

If Cousins becomes available, every team with top draft assets will be in on the chase.  Why not, when he has multiple years left on his deal?  Why wouldn't Philly offer Embiid and their top pick this summer, for example?  Why wouldn't the Lakers offer their top pick and Julius Randle?

The Celtics will not be able to compete.


It also makes no sense that Orlando would let Harris go. 

If a team with a very young roster, with relatively little salary commitment and no obvious replacements waiting in the wing, is willing to just let a 22 year old 17 ppg scorer with excellent size and shooting ability leave for nothing in restricted free agency ... that should tell you to stay away from the guy they're letting go.


So it looks like overpaying for the likes of Monroe and trading for Derozan or Gallinari or something like that is where this thing is headed.
Don't agree that Orlando is a given to match. Aaron Gordon plays a very similar role to Harris, if they feel that they can get better production out of a cheaper player, I could see them just keeping the cap space. Or at the very least agreeing to do a sign and trade to prevent the Magic from matching.

Aaron Gordon is very raw and probably makes more sense in a 20 mpg bench role for the meantime.

Anyway, why let Harris walk?  It's not like the salary cap is an issue for Orlando.  Why  not just match any offer for Harris, see if you can fit him into your long term plan, and if not, trade him for assets?  Is there concern that he'll be untradeable on a large deal?  If so, why should the Celtics sign him?

The Magic would let him walk if they set a price for him and he exceeds that price. If they don't believe he is worth more than $13 MM a year to them and decide not to match then they could move him. Teams have been known to draw a line in the sand when it comes to the price of a free agent.

I expect Harris to get expensive, which is why I can see him leaving. However, I just found out that he's from New York and grew up a Knicks fan so I think it's more likely he signs with them for max dollars.

I get the hometown connection, but I can't see NY throwing the kind of money it's going to take to land Harris.

I mean, him and Carmelo's game overlap in nearly every aspect. Would seem redundant.
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Re: Why we need to overpay this summer
« Reply #51 on: May 04, 2015, 06:51:11 PM »

Offline walker834

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I don't know if we need to overpay but I would definitely open Wyc's wallet and pay someone.  I don't think offering Kawii or Love a max deal is overpaying though. I think that is their value.  I would offer both of them max deals.

Re: Why we need to overpay this summer
« Reply #52 on: May 04, 2015, 06:56:23 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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I don't know if we need to overpay but I would definitely open Wyc's wallet and pay someone.  I don't think offering Kawii or Love a max deal is overpaying though. I think that is their value.  I would offer both of them max deals.

Yup......they are max players .....and I would offer

Re: Why we need to overpay this summer
« Reply #53 on: May 04, 2015, 07:15:19 PM »

Offline BornReady

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See I would only overpay if we were garuntteed a superstar like cousins
Or if it is a improving player with star potential
So I would only try overpaying kawhi and butler

Re: Why we need to overpay this summer
« Reply #54 on: May 04, 2015, 07:20:24 PM »

Offline Moranis

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See I would only overpay if we were garuntteed a superstar like cousins
Or if it is a improving player with star potential
So I would only try overpaying kawhi and butler
you can't overpay for players that are worth max contracts
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Re: Why we need to overpay this summer
« Reply #55 on: May 04, 2015, 07:26:29 PM »

Offline CoachBo

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I don't know if we need to overpay but I would definitely open Wyc's wallet and pay someone.  I don't think offering Kawii or Love a max deal is overpaying though. I think that is their value.  I would offer both of them max deals.

Yup......they are max players .....and I would offer

Overpay, and commit to surrounding them with talent this summer.

One wonders how Leonard will react, with the Spurs window closing.
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