Author Topic: Ainge: Celtics need another 'dynamic scorer  (Read 21799 times)

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Re: Ainge: Celtics need another 'dynamic scorer
« Reply #135 on: May 01, 2015, 03:37:14 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Nope. Most everyone knew KG was an elite talent on both ends of the floor. Not even close with Monroe. We know he's not even close to good on the defensive end, and not elite on offense

He was criticized for his lack of performance in the playoffs.  How short memory is of some folks.  Being an elite player, which he was did not insulate him from critics.

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“Can you name another alleged “superstar in his prime” who missed the playoffs for two straight seasons? … Isn’t it his job to carry a crappy team? What do you think Barkley was doing in the late-’80s and early-’90s in Philly?” – Bill Simmons

http://nyloncalculus.com/2015/01/27/will-remember-kevin-garnett/

I said in my post that Monroe was below their level.  But I also think PP was not on the level with Carmelo, Budweiser, maybe in Boston, but not nationwide.   I live in Ohio and I feel he was not accorded the same level of respect outside Beantown.  I doubt I am wrong about this as I have lived in different parts of the country during his tenure as a Celtic, so if anything I know about geographical favoritism and lack of respect being a Celtic fan outside of Boston.

Re: Ainge: Celtics need another 'dynamic scorer
« Reply #136 on: May 01, 2015, 03:40:38 PM »

Offline Boris Badenov

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. A player like Monroe would never be good enough to compete with the for courts of the legit contenders

I would bet money people thought the same way about KG and PP prior to them teaming up.   Monroe is not quite on their level but he is decent.  But people said these same things about them.

Nope. Most everyone knew KG was an elite talent on both ends of the floor. Not even close with Monroe. We know he's not even close to good on the defensive end, and not elite on offense

Yeah I think at this point people forget how elite all of the Big 3 were. Pierce was coming of a string of years where he averaged 25/5/4 basically. (The only players to match that this year were Durant, Lebron, Westbrook and Harden). He was fully capable of hanging 35-40 points on any team in the league on any given night, even in the playoffs.

Garnett was a serial All-NBA player, MVP and DPOY candidate and had just reeled off five consecutive years of averaging 23/13/5...which are numbers unmatched by almost anyone in league history.

Even our THIRD best guy Ray Allen was coming off four straight All-Star appearances and a season in which he averaged 26/4/4. He was at that point one of the 2-3 best shooters in the game, if not the flat out best.

So basically you had a guy who was about as good as Harden is now, a guy who was better than Anthony Davis is right now, and a guy who was as close to Steph Curry as you could get back then.

There's a reason we won 66 games, more than all but 10 teams in league history, and had one of the better two-way teams in league history...we had insane talent.

The notion that Greg Monroe or Faried provide a useful parallel to anything back then strikes me as absurd.

Re: Ainge: Celtics need another 'dynamic scorer
« Reply #137 on: May 01, 2015, 03:59:25 PM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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Nope. Most everyone knew KG was an elite talent on both ends of the floor. Not even close with Monroe. We know he's not even close to good on the defensive end, and not elite on offense

He was criticized for his lack of performance in the playoffs.  How short memory is of some folks.  Being an elite player, which he was did not insulate him from critics.

Quote
“Can you name another alleged “superstar in his prime” who missed the playoffs for two straight seasons? … Isn’t it his job to carry a crappy team? What do you think Barkley was doing in the late-’80s and early-’90s in Philly?” – Bill Simmons

http://nyloncalculus.com/2015/01/27/will-remember-kevin-garnett/

I said in my post that Monroe was below their level.  But I also think PP was not on the level with Carmelo, Budweiser, maybe in Boston, but not nationwide.   I live in Ohio and I feel he was not accorded the same level of respect outside Beantown.  I doubt I am wrong about this as I have lived in different parts of the country during his tenure as a Celtic, so if anything I know about geographical favoritism and lack of respect being a Celtic fan outside of Boston.

I disagree on Paul Pierce. Maybe not on equal level to Anthony nationwide, but much closer than you are giving him credit for. He did have some stellar performances on the playoffs, ECF and all that...he wasn't in the eternal mediocrity that has been Monroe's career in Detroit. Also, don't forget that Pierce had made the Olympics (from were the selfish characterization took a lot of fire) and he had widely known for his clutch performances.

He was a five time all-star before missing in 2007 due to the injury that kept him out through much of the year, else he would've or could've made it then as well. Greg Monroe? None last I saw.

What I do agree with is the lack of respect that Pierce had prior to 2007, which is why I mentioned in my post that fans looked at him as selfish, etc. But he was a proven commodity and his talent was well respected in my opinion.

The Anthony bandwagon went overboard in part because of the comparisons with LeBron early in their careers, which is why there's the discrepancy more than anything.

Re: Ainge: Celtics need another 'dynamic scorer
« Reply #138 on: May 01, 2015, 04:42:42 PM »

Offline Who

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I think Greg Monroe is around the 11th or 12th best center in the league right now.

My top centers would be = Cousins, Gasol, Horford, Dwight, Duncan, Noah, Gobert, D.Jordan, Tyson, Bogut. Maybe Hibbert.

I think Monroe is the next best center in the league.

Re: Ainge: Celtics need another 'dynamic scorer
« Reply #139 on: May 01, 2015, 05:20:49 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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I disagree on Paul Pierce. Maybe not on equal level to Anthony nationwide, but much closer than you are giving him credit for.

I was oft ridiculed for saying PP was an elite player until 2008, the rest of America does not view him that way but when he destroyed LeBron it changed some.

I think Monroe may be a PF, forced to play C.

Re: Ainge: Celtics need another 'dynamic scorer
« Reply #140 on: May 01, 2015, 07:01:51 PM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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I disagree on Paul Pierce. Maybe not on equal level to Anthony nationwide, but much closer than you are giving him credit for.

I was oft ridiculed for saying PP was an elite player until 2008, the rest of America does not view him that way but when he destroyed LeBron it changed some.

I think Monroe may be a PF, forced to play C.

That's fine. You can say that about all the media darlings as well that had the same stigma, Vince Carter and McGrady. Pierce had the pedigree. Monroe has nothing to show for it yet.

Also, the media access wasn't the same back then to what it is now. I'm sure if in this day and age if you had a 24 year old Paul Pierce dropping 26 a game, which he did, on 44% shooting and 40% from 3s people would be salivating over him nationwide.

I mean, it's Tim Duncan and it wasn't until recently that people REALLY began to appreciate what he did in the court and how the Spurs played for that matter.

As much as making the National team did to show Pierce as a legit talent, it also tarnished his image because of the beef with the coach and that team's failure (which many attributed to him, or tried to). I think that, more than anything, is what created a dismissiveness (from ignorant fans) of Paul Pierce. But... actual critics, I don't recall really being as dismissive of Paul Pierce, other than perpetuating the selfish stigma. Interestingly, it's that same stigma which Anthony has attached to his name right now.

Anyways, I don't know what we're arguing about. You brought the KG-Pierce tandem, but somehow object to bringing Anthony up? Pierce is much closer to Anthony than Monroe has been to KG or Pierce for that matter, so not sure what the issue is lol.

I just think it's unfair to discuss Monroe's situation to that of any of the players mentioned here because Monroe, even though I granted you that there was a parallel (criticism vs. later success) hasn't accomplished anything, on an individual level or on a team level.

Re: Ainge: Celtics need another 'dynamic scorer
« Reply #141 on: May 01, 2015, 07:27:55 PM »

Offline mctyson

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I really think Tobias Harris fits what this team needs, assuming it is a reasonable contract.  He is a big guy who can play inside and out, rebound, defend 2 positions, run, and stretch the defense with this 3 pt shooting.

He is entering his prime and could be a guy that maximizes his potential as a main option versus going to a stacked squad where he is rotational.  Probably stays in Orlando though.

Re: Ainge: Celtics need another 'dynamic scorer
« Reply #142 on: May 01, 2015, 07:34:38 PM »

Offline mctyson

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Would it be fair to say that the league leaders (top ten or fifteen) in a stat like points per possession could be considered dynamic scorers?

No.  I think IT4 is a dynamic scorer.  Use him as your mold.

Dynamic scorers are guys who don't need set plays and perfect execution to get their shots.  They get to the foul line.  They are hard to predict (and thus defend).  They score in the 4th quarter.

You don't need to be a volume scorer or even efficient to be dynamic. 

I think there are guys out there like this.

Re: Ainge: Celtics need another 'dynamic scorer
« Reply #143 on: May 04, 2015, 07:40:40 AM »

Offline spikelovetheCelts

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I disagree on Paul Pierce. Maybe not on equal level to Anthony nationwide, but much closer than you are giving him credit for.

I was oft ridiculed for saying PP was an elite player until 2008, the rest of America does not view him that way but when he destroyed LeBron it changed some.

I think Monroe may be a PF, forced to play C.
Exactly. Monroe is not the answer at Center. Find away up in the draft to get Wille CS and develop him. Sign a lower tier current back-up either BB, Kousas, Anjnica and pair with Zeller until WCS starts. 
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