Would you trade the 16th pick for Dieng

[Who]

Dieng's nice but is he much better than Zeller?

Chance isn't great but the Celts have to try and get a player who is more than just another guy.  Swing for the fences.

Dieng beats Zeller hands down in wingspan and reach measurements.  Zeller couldn't block a shot against the cavs if his life depended on it. I would like to see Lebron try to score around Dieng's wingspan and reach on multiple occasions

Both guys are regularly overmatched physically and athletically at the starting C position.

Both ideally bench centers.

Dieng has got to get stronger and more powerful to be a long term starter. He is not quick enough to make it as a good defensive undersized C.

[Tr1boy]

Wolves wouldn't give him up for the 16th pick.
They might trade him for Avery Bradley but then we'd need to take back some salary.

He's been pretty good but does have problems guarding opposing bigs in the paint.
He's a great weakside help defender but I dunno if his ceiling is that high or maybe a bit better than Ian Mahinmi.

He has some issues because he is 245 pounds. Once he gets up to 255 , he should have enough bulk to not get pushed around.   

He is much better than Mahinmi who is more like a Biyombo.  Dieng actually has some skills on the offensive end

[Tr1boy]

Dieng's nice but is he much better than Zeller?

Chance isn't great but the Celts have to try and get a player who is more than just another guy.  Swing for the fences.

Dieng beats Zeller hands down in wingspan and reach measurements.  Zeller couldn't block a shot against the cavs if his life depended on it. I would like to see Lebron try to score around Dieng's wingspan and reach on multiple occasions

Both guys are regularly overmatched physically and athletically at the starting C position.

Both ideally bench centers.

Dieng has got to get stronger and more powerful to be a long term starter. He is not quick enough to make it as a good defensive undersized C.

he is quick enough.   You think Marc Gasol is quicker?

What I think you mean is that he is not quick enough mentally.  His reaction in certain situations can improve.  But with experience he should get better

Dieng has top tier level wingspan and reach vs Zeller that has an average wingspan and only a 8'10 reach . This alone makes a difference between getting a crucial situation tip in and/of late game block or not.  Players will be more hesitant to drive in vs Dieng. That alone is something more valuable

[Celtics4ever]

I don't MIN putting him on the market.

[Who]

Dieng's nice but is he much better than Zeller?

Chance isn't great but the Celts have to try and get a player who is more than just another guy.  Swing for the fences.

Dieng beats Zeller hands down in wingspan and reach measurements.  Zeller couldn't block a shot against the cavs if his life depended on it. I would like to see Lebron try to score around Dieng's wingspan and reach on multiple occasions

Both guys are regularly overmatched physically and athletically at the starting C position.

Both ideally bench centers.

Dieng has got to get stronger and more powerful to be a long term starter. He is not quick enough to make it as a good defensive undersized C.

he is quick enough.   You think Marc Gasol is quicker?

What I think you mean is that he is not quick enough mentally.  His reaction in certain situations can improve.  But with experience he should get better

Dieng has top tier level wingspan and reach vs Zeller that has an average wingspan and only a 8'10 reach . This alone makes a difference between getting a crucial situation tip in and/of late game block or not.  Players will be more hesitant to drive in vs Dieng. That alone is something more valuable

If you were to rank all 30 starting centers, Dieng would rank below average both in terms of physicality and athleticism. That puts him at an athletic or physical disadvantage vs his opponent more often than not.

Marc Gasol is almost always at an athletic disadvantage but rarely a physical disadvantage. He is a legit 7-1, good length and good bulk and physical strength. He is physically intimidating.

Dieng is neither. He has decent quickness. Just not above average quickness. He has solid height / length but seriously lacking in physical strength. So Dieng is often giving up one (physical or athletic) or both (physical and athletic) as starting C.

[LarBrd33]

Why would the Wolves trade Dieng for such a late pick?  I get that if they land Townes or something they could look to trade the other centers, but surely they can get more than some crapshoot mid 1st. 

What's the chances that the player picked #16 ends up as good as Dieng is right now?  The best-case scenario with a pick that late is someone like Dieng.   It's like saying, "I'll trade you $20 bucks for a scratch ticket where the grand prize is $20 bucks"

It's a decent point. So it would have to be Zeller and 16 for Dieng and a 2nd
This trade idea only works out if the Wolves get Towns or Okafor and like somebody at 16.  Again there is no need for them to have 3 centers (have zeller as the insurance #3)

Former #16 picks:
     
2013    Lucas Nogueira    Brazil    Boston
2012    Royce White    Iowa St.    Houston
2011    Nikola Vucevic    USC    Philadelphia
2010    Luke Babbitt    Nevada    Minnesota
2009    James Johnson    Wake Forest    Chicago
2008    Marreese Speights    Florida    Philadelphia
2007    Nick Young    USC    Washington
2006    Rodney Carnet    Memphis    Philadelphia
2005    Joey Graham    Oklahoma St.Sr.    Toronto
2004    Kirk Snyder    Nevada Jr.    Utah
2003    Troy Bell    BostonCollege Sr.    Boston
2002    Jiri Welsch    Czech Republic 1980    Philadelphia
2001    Kirk Haston    IndianaJr.    NO Hornets
2000    Hidayet Turkoglu    Turkey 1979    Sacramento
1999    Ron Artest    St. Johns So.    Chicago
1998    Bryce Drew    Valparaiso    Houston
1997    Brevin Knight    Stanford    Phoenix
1996    Tony Delk    Kentucky    NO Hornets
1995    Alan Henderson    Indiana    Atlanta
1994    Cliff Rozier    Louisville    Golden State
1993    Rex Walters    Kansas    New Jersey
1992    Randy Woods    La Salle    LA Clippers
1991    Chris Gatling    Old Dominion    Golden State
1990    Terry Mills    Michigan    Milwaukee
1989    Dana Barros    BostonCollege    Seattle
1988    Derrick Chievous    Missouri    Houston
1987    Christian Welp    Washington    Philadelphia
1986    Mo Martin    St. Joseph's    Denver
1985    Bill Wennington    St. John's    Dallas
1984    John Stockton    Gonzaga    Utah
1983    Jon Sundvold    Missouri    Seattle
1982    Terry Teagle    Baylor    Houston
1981    Darnell Valentine    Kansas    Portland
1980    Hawkeye Whitney

A couple good players there.  Maybe once a decade?  Most recent #16 pick was Jusuf Nurkic.   Law of averages says the #16 pick this year is going to be garbage.  Best-case scenario with the #16 pick is someone like Dieng.  You don't trade Dieng for a 1/10 chance at landing the next Dieng.

[Tr1boy]

Dieng's nice but is he much better than Zeller?

Chance isn't great but the Celts have to try and get a player who is more than just another guy.  Swing for the fences.

Dieng beats Zeller hands down in wingspan and reach measurements.  Zeller couldn't block a shot against the cavs if his life depended on it. I would like to see Lebron try to score around Dieng's wingspan and reach on multiple occasions

Both guys are regularly overmatched physically and athletically at the starting C position.

Both ideally bench centers.

Dieng has got to get stronger and more powerful to be a long term starter. He is not quick enough to make it as a good defensive undersized C.

he is quick enough.   You think Marc Gasol is quicker?

What I think you mean is that he is not quick enough mentally.  His reaction in certain situations can improve.  But with experience he should get better

Dieng has top tier level wingspan and reach vs Zeller that has an average wingspan and only a 8'10 reach . This alone makes a difference between getting a crucial situation tip in and/of late game block or not.  Players will be more hesitant to drive in vs Dieng. That alone is something more valuable

If you were to rank all 30 starting centers, Dieng would rank below average both in terms of physicality and athleticism. That puts him at an athletic or physical disadvantage vs his opponent more often than not.

Marc Gasol is almost always at an athletic disadvantage but rarely a physical disadvantage. He is a legit 7-1, good length and good bulk. He is physically intimidating.

Dieng is neither. He has decent quickness. Just not above average quickness. He has solid height / length but seriously lacking in physical strength. So Dieng is often giving up one (physical or athletic) or both (physical and athletic) as starting C.

I don't disagree with some of your points. But he can get stronger. Before coming to the NBA he was listed at 235 pounds. Now is 245 pounds (you can tell he has bulked up a little).  He can add 10 more pounds imo.   Does this mean he can still battle the likes of Gasol easily. No but at least not get pushed around .  He will also have certain adv vs guys like Gasol that can work in your favour

Does Dieng fit with CBS system? I think he does. He fits better than a guy like Hibbert. Is Dieng an upgrade to Zeller? and imo the answer is yes.

[jambr380]

Why would the Wolves trade Dieng for such a late pick?  I get that if they land Townes or something they could look to trade the other centers, but surely they can get more than some crapshoot mid 1st. 

What's the chances that the player picked #16 ends up as good as Dieng is right now?  The best-case scenario with a pick that late is someone like Dieng.   It's like saying, "I'll trade you $20 bucks for a scratch ticket where the grand prize is $20 bucks"

It's a decent point. So it would have to be Zeller and 16 for Dieng and a 2nd
This trade idea only works out if the Wolves get Towns or Okafor and like somebody at 16.  Again there is no need for them to have 3 centers (have zeller as the insurance #3)

Former #16 picks:
     
2013    Lucas Nogueira    Brazil    Boston
2012    Royce White    Iowa St.    Houston
2011    Nikola Vucevic    USC    Philadelphia
2010    Luke Babbitt    Nevada    Minnesota
2009    James Johnson    Wake Forest    Chicago
2008    Marreese Speights    Florida    Philadelphia
2007    Nick Young    USC    Washington
2006    Rodney Carnet    Memphis    Philadelphia
2005    Joey Graham    Oklahoma St.Sr.    Toronto
2004    Kirk Snyder    Nevada Jr.    Utah
2003    Troy Bell    BostonCollege Sr.    Boston
2002    Jiri Welsch    Czech Republic 1980    Philadelphia
2001    Kirk Haston    IndianaJr.    NO Hornets
2000    Hidayet Turkoglu    Turkey 1979    Sacramento
1999    Ron Artest    St. Johns So.    Chicago
1998    Bryce Drew    Valparaiso    Houston
1997    Brevin Knight    Stanford    Phoenix
1996    Tony Delk    Kentucky    NO Hornets
1995    Alan Henderson    Indiana    Atlanta
1994    Cliff Rozier    Louisville    Golden State
1993    Rex Walters    Kansas    New Jersey
1992    Randy Woods    La Salle    LA Clippers
1991    Chris Gatling    Old Dominion    Golden State
1990    Terry Mills    Michigan    Milwaukee
1989    Dana Barros    BostonCollege    Seattle
1988    Derrick Chievous    Missouri    Houston
1987    Christian Welp    Washington    Philadelphia
1986    Mo Martin    St. Joseph's    Denver
1985    Bill Wennington    St. John's    Dallas
1984    John Stockton    Gonzaga    Utah
1983    Jon Sundvold    Missouri    Seattle
1982    Terry Teagle    Baylor    Houston
1981    Darnell Valentine    Kansas    Portland
1980    Hawkeye Whitney

A couple good players there.  Maybe once a decade?  Most recent #16 pick was Jusuf Nurkic.   Law of averages says the #16 pick this year is going to be garbage.  Best-case scenario with the #16 pick is someone like Dieng.  You don't trade Dieng for a 1/10 chance at landing the next Dieng.

It doesn't change the fact that potential often outweighs a known quantity, even though that know quantity has shown to be productive at a hard-to-find position, It's the same reason I was always a little surprised that no championship contender would trade a late pick for Bass - clearly he would have fit into a team's rotation quite nicely, but the 29th pick could apparently be the next Gasol.

People feel differently about draft picks. While it seems like an obvious 'yes' to you and me, I bet a poll would show only a slight pro-Dieng split - with the main reason being that we are desperate for a quality center.

[LarBrd33]

Why would the Wolves trade Dieng for such a late pick?  I get that if they land Townes or something they could look to trade the other centers, but surely they can get more than some crapshoot mid 1st. 

What's the chances that the player picked #16 ends up as good as Dieng is right now?  The best-case scenario with a pick that late is someone like Dieng.   It's like saying, "I'll trade you $20 bucks for a scratch ticket where the grand prize is $20 bucks"

It's a decent point. So it would have to be Zeller and 16 for Dieng and a 2nd
This trade idea only works out if the Wolves get Towns or Okafor and like somebody at 16.  Again there is no need for them to have 3 centers (have zeller as the insurance #3)

Former #16 picks:
     
2013    Lucas Nogueira    Brazil    Boston
2012    Royce White    Iowa St.    Houston
2011    Nikola Vucevic    USC    Philadelphia
2010    Luke Babbitt    Nevada    Minnesota
2009    James Johnson    Wake Forest    Chicago
2008    Marreese Speights    Florida    Philadelphia
2007    Nick Young    USC    Washington
2006    Rodney Carnet    Memphis    Philadelphia
2005    Joey Graham    Oklahoma St.Sr.    Toronto
2004    Kirk Snyder    Nevada Jr.    Utah
2003    Troy Bell    BostonCollege Sr.    Boston
2002    Jiri Welsch    Czech Republic 1980    Philadelphia
2001    Kirk Haston    IndianaJr.    NO Hornets
2000    Hidayet Turkoglu    Turkey 1979    Sacramento
1999    Ron Artest    St. Johns So.    Chicago
1998    Bryce Drew    Valparaiso    Houston
1997    Brevin Knight    Stanford    Phoenix
1996    Tony Delk    Kentucky    NO Hornets
1995    Alan Henderson    Indiana    Atlanta
1994    Cliff Rozier    Louisville    Golden State
1993    Rex Walters    Kansas    New Jersey
1992    Randy Woods    La Salle    LA Clippers
1991    Chris Gatling    Old Dominion    Golden State
1990    Terry Mills    Michigan    Milwaukee
1989    Dana Barros    BostonCollege    Seattle
1988    Derrick Chievous    Missouri    Houston
1987    Christian Welp    Washington    Philadelphia
1986    Mo Martin    St. Joseph's    Denver
1985    Bill Wennington    St. John's    Dallas
1984    John Stockton    Gonzaga    Utah
1983    Jon Sundvold    Missouri    Seattle
1982    Terry Teagle    Baylor    Houston
1981    Darnell Valentine    Kansas    Portland
1980    Hawkeye Whitney

A couple good players there.  Maybe once a decade?  Most recent #16 pick was Jusuf Nurkic.   Law of averages says the #16 pick this year is going to be garbage.  Best-case scenario with the #16 pick is someone like Dieng.  You don't trade Dieng for a 1/10 chance at landing the next Dieng.

It doesn't change the fact that potential often outweighs a known quantity, even though that know quantity has shown to be productive at a hard-to-find position, It's the same reason I was always a little surprised that no championship contender would trade a late pick for Bass -

Nobody gave up a late 1st for Bass, because he's an expiring contract.  Bass on a contract is certainly worth a late 1st.  A couple months of Bass might not be worth it.

The unknown is tantalizing to a certain extent.

Say I had 50 boxes.  One of them had $100 in it.   5 of them had $20 in them.   10 of them had $5 in them.    The remaining 34 boxes were empty.    How much are you paying for one of the boxes?     If any of you guys are stupid enough to give up $20 for them, I'd totally be open to playing this game for real.   It's only going to cost me $250 bucks and 20x100 is $1000.  I'll profit $750.   

My guess is, nobody wants to give up $20 for a 1/10 chance at $20... even if there's that 1/50 chance at $100. 
 
 Dieng is an established young player at this point.  They could get more than #16 for him.

[Forza Juventus]

It depends on who is on the board but Dieng isn't even that good.

[Boris Badenov]

Why would the Wolves trade Dieng for such a late pick?  I get that if they land Townes or something they could look to trade the other centers, but surely they can get more than some crapshoot mid 1st. 

What's the chances that the player picked #16 ends up as good as Dieng is right now?  The best-case scenario with a pick that late is someone like Dieng.   It's like saying, "I'll trade you $20 bucks for a scratch ticket where the grand prize is $20 bucks"

It's a decent point. So it would have to be Zeller and 16 for Dieng and a 2nd
This trade idea only works out if the Wolves get Towns or Okafor and like somebody at 16.  Again there is no need for them to have 3 centers (have zeller as the insurance #3)

Former #16 picks:
     
2013    Lucas Nogueira    Brazil    Boston
2012    Royce White    Iowa St.    Houston
2011    Nikola Vucevic    USC    Philadelphia
2010    Luke Babbitt    Nevada    Minnesota
2009    James Johnson    Wake Forest    Chicago
2008    Marreese Speights    Florida    Philadelphia
2007    Nick Young    USC    Washington
2006    Rodney Carnet    Memphis    Philadelphia
2005    Joey Graham    Oklahoma St.Sr.    Toronto
2004    Kirk Snyder    Nevada Jr.    Utah
2003    Troy Bell    BostonCollege Sr.    Boston
2002    Jiri Welsch    Czech Republic 1980    Philadelphia
2001    Kirk Haston    IndianaJr.    NO Hornets
2000    Hidayet Turkoglu    Turkey 1979    Sacramento
1999    Ron Artest    St. Johns So.    Chicago
1998    Bryce Drew    Valparaiso    Houston
1997    Brevin Knight    Stanford    Phoenix
1996    Tony Delk    Kentucky    NO Hornets
1995    Alan Henderson    Indiana    Atlanta
1994    Cliff Rozier    Louisville    Golden State
1993    Rex Walters    Kansas    New Jersey
1992    Randy Woods    La Salle    LA Clippers
1991    Chris Gatling    Old Dominion    Golden State
1990    Terry Mills    Michigan    Milwaukee
1989    Dana Barros    BostonCollege    Seattle
1988    Derrick Chievous    Missouri    Houston
1987    Christian Welp    Washington    Philadelphia
1986    Mo Martin    St. Joseph's    Denver
1985    Bill Wennington    St. John's    Dallas
1984    John Stockton    Gonzaga    Utah
1983    Jon Sundvold    Missouri    Seattle
1982    Terry Teagle    Baylor    Houston
1981    Darnell Valentine    Kansas    Portland
1980    Hawkeye Whitney

A couple good players there.  Maybe once a decade?  Most recent #16 pick was Jusuf Nurkic.   Law of averages says the #16 pick this year is going to be garbage.  Best-case scenario with the #16 pick is someone like Dieng.  You don't trade Dieng for a 1/10 chance at landing the next Dieng.

I agree with you about the probabilities, and I also think Dieng would be a great get in exchange for #16, but I don't think the prospect of getting him is as ridiculous as you make it out to be.

The fact is that picks are more valuable in trade than their "expected value" from a statistical standpoint. There are a variety of reasons for this, mostly having to do with the concept of "option value." Uncertainty actually creates value in this context, because you can choose whether to keep someone who pans out, or cut bait if they stink.

As one example, you could make the same argument about Isaiah Thomas vs. that Cavs 1st rounder - but we were able to pull that off.

[Rhyso]

Yeh I would absolutely. I wanted him in that draft and thought Danny was a fool not to take him, also considering we had plenty of playing time at the Center spot to develop someone. Why we traded up for Olynyk is beyond me.

[mahcus smaht]

Yeh I would absolutely. I wanted him in that draft and thought Danny was a fool not to take him, also considering we had plenty of playing time at the Center spot to develop someone. Why we traded up for Olynyk is beyond me.

I remember wanting Schroeder and dieng in that draft. I know schroeders turned into a nice player, but I've lost track of dieng. Also, I never trust box scores from bottom 5 teams.

Can anyone give a scouting update of sorts for me.

From what this thread suggests. He is long enough to block shots and rebound at an ok rate and hscan hit the midrange j ok but aa lack of athleticism keeps him in the bottom half of centers around the league.

Does that sound right? Anything to add or edit?

[KCattheStripe]

Why would the Wolves trade Dieng for such a late pick?  I get that if they land Townes or something they could look to trade the other centers, but surely they can get more than some crapshoot mid 1st. 

What's the chances that the player picked #16 ends up as good as Dieng is right now?  The best-case scenario with a pick that late is someone like Dieng.   It's like saying, "I'll trade you $20 bucks for a scratch ticket where the grand prize is $20 bucks"

It's a decent point. So it would have to be Zeller and 16 for Dieng and a 2nd
This trade idea only works out if the Wolves get Towns or Okafor and like somebody at 16.  Again there is no need for them to have 3 centers (have zeller as the insurance #3)

Former #16 picks:
     
2013    Lucas Nogueira    Brazil    Boston
2012    Royce White    Iowa St.    Houston
2011    Nikola Vucevic    USC    Philadelphia
2010    Luke Babbitt    Nevada    Minnesota
2009    James Johnson    Wake Forest    Chicago
2008    Marreese Speights    Florida    Philadelphia
2007    Nick Young    USC    Washington
2006    Rodney Carnet    Memphis    Philadelphia
2005    Joey Graham    Oklahoma St.Sr.    Toronto
2004    Kirk Snyder    Nevada Jr.    Utah
2003    Troy Bell    BostonCollege Sr.    Boston
2002    Jiri Welsch    Czech Republic 1980    Philadelphia
2001    Kirk Haston    IndianaJr.    NO Hornets
2000    Hidayet Turkoglu    Turkey 1979    Sacramento
1999    Ron Artest    St. Johns So.    Chicago
1998    Bryce Drew    Valparaiso    Houston
1997    Brevin Knight    Stanford    Phoenix
1996    Tony Delk    Kentucky    NO Hornets
1995    Alan Henderson    Indiana    Atlanta
1994    Cliff Rozier    Louisville    Golden State
1993    Rex Walters    Kansas    New Jersey
1992    Randy Woods    La Salle    LA Clippers
1991    Chris Gatling    Old Dominion    Golden State
1990    Terry Mills    Michigan    Milwaukee
1989    Dana Barros    BostonCollege    Seattle
1988    Derrick Chievous    Missouri    Houston
1987    Christian Welp    Washington    Philadelphia
1986    Mo Martin    St. Joseph's    Denver
1985    Bill Wennington    St. John's    Dallas
1984    John Stockton    Gonzaga    Utah
1983    Jon Sundvold    Missouri    Seattle
1982    Terry Teagle    Baylor    Houston
1981    Darnell Valentine    Kansas    Portland
1980    Hawkeye Whitney

A couple good players there.  Maybe once a decade?  Most recent #16 pick was Jusuf Nurkic.   Law of averages says the #16 pick this year is going to be garbage.  Best-case scenario with the #16 pick is someone like Dieng.  You don't trade Dieng for a 1/10 chance at landing the next Dieng.

Not bolding Hedo is pretty cold blodded.

[byennie]

In a heartbeat for #16. I think he would thrive in Boston, because he's an intelligent, skilled guy on top of being a physical force. He can defend the pick-and-roll as well as the rim, which would be a deadly combo with Bradley & Smart and a good wing defender. He's also an above average passer. He's on his rookie deal for 2 more years and would only make the same amount as our #16 pick (because he was drafted #21).

I like Zeller, but I see him as a good backup. Dieng is starter material and can give you something like 10-10-2 with very good all-around defense and a little passing. In the right system I could see him up kicking it up a notch to around 12-12-3 in his prime, and by the time we have to pay him (or not) the cap will be $100M+.

That said, Minnesota has to win the lottery for this to even be a possibility IMO, because that's the the only spot at which they draft a center (Towns)...