Author Topic: Olynyk and Smith suspended, Perkins fined.  (Read 9768 times)

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Re: Olynyk and Smith suspended, Perkins fined.
« Reply #30 on: April 27, 2015, 08:29:04 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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What a joke.  Personally, I was wondering why it was taking the league so long to suspend Smith, and now I know why.

Smith should be kicked out of the league. How many times does this guy do stupid things like this?

And then he says, I shouldn't have done it, I should of known better. The dummy didn't even say sorry to Crowder

Re: Olynyk and Smith suspended, Perkins fined.
« Reply #31 on: April 27, 2015, 08:29:26 PM »

Offline Beat LA

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how about fining love for what he did 1st

It will be interesting to see what happens when KO and Love meet next

KO will send him a get well soon card before that even happens, lol. ;) ;D

Re: Olynyk and Smith suspended, Perkins fined.
« Reply #32 on: April 27, 2015, 08:30:20 PM »

Offline Beat LA

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What a joke.  Personally, I was wondering why it was taking the league so long to suspend Smith, and now I know why.

Smith should be kicked out of the league. How many times does this guy do stupid things like this?

And then he says, I shouldn't have done it, I should of known better. The dummy didn't even say sorry to Crowder

I agree, but can we also kick Perk out of the league, too?

Re: Olynyk and Smith suspended, Perkins fined.
« Reply #33 on: April 27, 2015, 08:31:25 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
It will be interesting to see what happens when KO and Love meet next

I am guessing love won't be in the air.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNC0kIzM1Fo

Re: Olynyk and Smith suspended, Perkins fined.
« Reply #34 on: April 27, 2015, 08:43:40 PM »

Offline Sievers81

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It makes me frustrated everytime I see someone post the KO/Love tie-up in picture form and express outrage. It makes it look far more malicious than it actually was.

Re: Olynyk and Smith suspended, Perkins fined.
« Reply #35 on: April 27, 2015, 08:46:18 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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Stupid that they'd suspend KO, and laughable lack of severity in the punishment to LeBron's teammates.

But is it surprising?  Sadly no.

2 playoff games is equivalent to how many regular season games in sheer importance? 10?

Re: Olynyk and Smith suspended, Perkins fined.
« Reply #36 on: April 27, 2015, 08:46:26 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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What a joke.  Personally, I was wondering why it was taking the league so long to suspend Smith, and now I know why.

Smith should be kicked out of the league. How many times does this guy do stupid things like this?

And then he says, I shouldn't have done it, I should of known better. The dummy didn't even say sorry to Crowder

I agree, but can we also kick Perk out of the league, too?

no. Perk is Perk. Crowder should of launched a punch first.

What Perk did was wrong, but why was Crowder getting up in his face? Just to cuss him down? That is a sign, you are ready to punch or whatever. Crowder should of punched or pushed him first.   Or walk away


Re: Olynyk and Smith suspended, Perkins fined.
« Reply #37 on: April 27, 2015, 08:47:08 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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I think the screenshots make it look much worse than it is because it takes away context. In the context of the play, the rebound in bouncing away from love and towards the sideline where it will be  Celtics ball and also towards AB who can scoop the ball up for once again Celtics ball.

For me, KO realized love had position so he tried to pull him away by holding on to his arm in hopes that the C's could retain possession of the ball.

It was an illegal play but theres no way there was intent to injure.

This wasnt about getting locked up or anything like that. KO saw that Love was going to grab the rebound so he held his arm so he couldnt get to the ball.

By looking at a screenshot all this is lost. My 9th grade history teacher always said that the first rule of the universe is "context ALWAYS matters" perhaps we could all take a lesson from that here.

I think the play was a lot like Dwade's on Rondo except Wade has a history of dirty plays making it a bit more suspicious.

If you watch the replay Wade loses the ball and holds Rondo so that he cant get around him and go the other way for an easy fastbreak bucket. Both guys used excessive force but I tend to doubt either said to themselves "oh let me dislocate this guys arm"
Quote from: George W. Bush
Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Re: Olynyk and Smith suspended, Perkins fined.
« Reply #38 on: April 27, 2015, 08:48:48 PM »

Offline jpotter33

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I think the screenshots make it look much worse than it is because it takes away context. In the context of the play, the rebound in bouncing away from love and towards the sideline where it will be  Celtics ball and also towards AB who can scoop the ball up for once again Celtics ball.

For me, KO realized love had position so he tried to pull him away by holding on to his arm in hopes that the C's could retain possession of the ball.

It was an illegal play but theres no way there was intent to injure.

This wasnt about getting locked up or anything like that. KO saw that Love was going to grab the rebound so he held his arm so he couldnt get to the ball.

By looking at a screenshot all this is lost. My 9th grade history teacher always said that the first rule of the universe is "context ALWAYS matters" perhaps we could all take a lesson from that here.

I think the play was a lot like Dwade's on Rondo except Wade has a history of dirty plays making it a bit more suspicious.

If you watch the replay Wade loses the ball and holds Rondo so that he cant get around him and go the other way for an easy fastbreak bucket. Both guys used excessive force but I tend to doubt either said to themselves "oh let me dislocate this guys arm"

This.

Re: Olynyk and Smith suspended, Perkins fined.
« Reply #39 on: April 27, 2015, 08:57:41 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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It makes me frustrated everytime I see someone post the KO/Love tie-up in picture form and express outrage. It makes it look far more malicious than it actually was.

Who's expressing outrage?  I said specifically that I didn't think it was malicious.  It was excessive and dangerous, though.

It was an illegal play but theres no way there was intent to injure.

I keep seeing this.  What does intent have to do with anything?  I don't believe it's anywhere in the rules for punishment, mainly because finding intent in a basketball play basically equals mind-reading, and is subject to a wide variety of biases.  Compare and contrast this thread with the Cavs fan equivalent for examples (don't worry though, they're all just being irrational  ;))

Re: Olynyk and Smith suspended, Perkins fined.
« Reply #40 on: April 27, 2015, 09:15:44 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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It makes me frustrated everytime I see someone post the KO/Love tie-up in picture form and express outrage. It makes it look far more malicious than it actually was.

Who's expressing outrage?  I said specifically that I didn't think it was malicious.  It was excessive and dangerous, though.

It was an illegal play but theres no way there was intent to injure.

I keep seeing this.  What does intent have to do with anything?  I don't believe it's anywhere in the rules for punishment, mainly because finding intent in a basketball play basically equals mind-reading, and is subject to a wide variety of biases.  Compare and contrast this thread with the Cavs fan equivalent for examples (don't worry though, they're all just being irrational  ;))
"unnecessary and excessive contact"
That defines a flagrant 2.
That is vague AF but I believe it implies that intent is necessary. I mean technically isnt every foul "unnecessary". The NBA has to look at it and say was he trying to make a basketball play? Was this action to help his team get the ball or to hurt a player on the opposing team?

Thats intent and I believe implied in the rules.

Also Cavs fans are more emotionally involved in this than us C's fans. Our seasons over. We lose an OK player for a game next year. Who cares?

The Cavs on the other hand are in a situation where they are potentially going to be cost a championship by this injury. They are looking for someone to blame. The easy guy is KO but over on Fear the Sword they are blaming everyone from Crowder, to Stevens, to Ainge, to the Refs, to Silver I mean come on that is a bit irrational isnt it?
Quote from: George W. Bush
Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Re: Olynyk and Smith suspended, Perkins fined.
« Reply #41 on: April 27, 2015, 09:20:48 PM »

Offline mgent

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Ummm, I'm the most confused I've ever been in my life.

Kelly tries to prevent Love from getting to the ball and he gets suspended?

Sorry, I guess I missed the memo that declared holding no longer a common foul and now a suspension-worthy offense.

Unprecedented in the NBA.  KO is a trail-blazer.

When is Love's suspension for doing the exact same thing beforehand going to be announced?

KO only tugged on Love's arm because Love pulled his arm first..........  Had Love not done that, the injury never would have happened.

Does the NBA not understand what a sequence of events is?

Meanwhile Perk gets a fine that LBJ or the Cavs will likely pay?

Sorry but anytime I've seen someone get hit above the shoulders, intentional or unintentional, basketball play or after the play, it's been either an ejection or suspension.

I couldn't stop laughing when they announced the double tech, but just can't stop shaking my head now.

I knew it wasn't a punch or slap or elbow from the replay, so I personally wouldn't have wanted an ejection (like during the first ~45 years of the NBA, but I'm pretty sure the precedence is 100% set by now).
« Last Edit: April 27, 2015, 09:28:24 PM by mgent »
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Re: Olynyk and Smith suspended, Perkins fined.
« Reply #42 on: April 27, 2015, 09:26:56 PM »

Offline jambr380

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Lame, and it screams double standard.

KO obviously shouldn't have been suspended, but since he was, Perk should have received at least the same punishment.

As for Smith, total jerk - I can't imagine he will continue to get away with this cheap stuff.

Re: Olynyk and Smith suspended, Perkins fined.
« Reply #43 on: April 27, 2015, 09:28:17 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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It makes me frustrated everytime I see someone post the KO/Love tie-up in picture form and express outrage. It makes it look far more malicious than it actually was.

Who's expressing outrage?  I said specifically that I didn't think it was malicious.  It was excessive and dangerous, though.

It was an illegal play but theres no way there was intent to injure.

I keep seeing this.  What does intent have to do with anything?  I don't believe it's anywhere in the rules for punishment, mainly because finding intent in a basketball play basically equals mind-reading, and is subject to a wide variety of biases.  Compare and contrast this thread with the Cavs fan equivalent for examples (don't worry though, they're all just being irrational  ;))
"unnecessary and excessive contact"
That defines a flagrant 2.
That is vague AF but I believe it implies that intent is necessary. I mean technically isnt every foul "unnecessary". The NBA has to look at it and say was he trying to make a basketball play? Was this action to help his team get the ball or to hurt a player on the opposing team?

Thats intent and I believe implied in the rules.

No it doesn't, let alone intent to injure.  The flagrant rules used to explicitly include intent, but it was dropped because it's even vaguer and subject to more bias than anything that only describes behavior.

Here are the rules for how the league office gives out flagrants and suspensions after the fact:

Quote from: Adam Silver
The League Office will consider the following factors (as well as any other relevant facts and circumstances) in determining whether to classify a foul as Flagrant "1" or Flagrant "2", to reclassify a flagrant foul, or to impose a fine and/or suspension on the player involved:

1. The severity of the contact;

2. Whether or not the player was making a legitimate basketball play (e.g., whether a player is making a legitimate effort to block a shot; note, however, that a foul committed during a block attempt can still be considered flagrant if other criteria are present such as recklessness and hard contact to the head);

3. Whether, on a foul committed with a player's arm or hand, the fouling player wound up and/or followed through after making contact;

4. The potential for injury resulting from contact (e.g., a blow to the head and a foul committed while a player is in a vulnerable position);

5. The severity of any injury suffered by the offended player; and

6. The outcome of the contact (e.g., whether it led to an altercation).

Olynyk's play checks off 3, 4, and 5; he followed through after the arm lock, and obviously injury was possible because it actually resulted, and was fairly serious.   #1 is pretty vague, it doesn't seem particularly "severe" overall but someone could probably argue otherwise.  While he appeared to be making a basketball play, the "recklessness" qualifier on #2 could fit there too.  #6 depends on whether you consider the subsequent Perk/JR altercations count as an outcome or not.  That's at a minimum half of the factors, which when you consider the injury was fairly severe, seems completely in line with a suspension. 

Contrast with JR Smith, who easily hits the first 5, but probably not #6, so his suspension was a game longer - I think it could've been longer than that but at least it's consistent in being a bigger penalty.  Perk on the other hand probably gets 1-4, and you'll get no argument from me that no ejection or suspension is a joke.

Re: Olynyk and Smith suspended, Perkins fined.
« Reply #44 on: April 27, 2015, 09:31:25 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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Do you really believe they dont look for intent? honestly?
Quote from: George W. Bush
Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.