Author Topic: How can Danny Trade Up  (Read 5139 times)

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Re: How can Danny Trade Up
« Reply #15 on: April 27, 2015, 12:51:29 PM »

Offline Evantime34

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For the C's to trade up I think it would take a future first, since there isn't a whole ton of value in the 28th pick.

For the record I am 100% in favor of trading a Mavs or Brooklyn pick to get into the top 10 and grab WCS or Stanley Johnson.

I see Winslow, Johnson, and even Hezonja getting picked over WCS... Kings already have Demarcus. The Pistons already have Drummond, might get Prozingis to stretch the floor.. the Hornets however, might nab him.
I agree on the Pistons but I think the Kings could easily slow WCS next to Cousins because WCS is quick enough to guard 4's and Cousins can shoot it enough to make that combo playable offensive spacing wise.

However, the Kings biggest need is a pg so I could see them trading back to draft Grant (assuming that they don't move up high enough in the lottery to get Mudiay or Russell)
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Re: How can Danny Trade Up
« Reply #16 on: April 27, 2015, 12:52:34 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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The early 2nd round pick  might be more valuable than the #28 pick in terms of moving up because it gives teams more flexibility with the deal that gets signed with the player.
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Re: How can Danny Trade Up
« Reply #17 on: April 27, 2015, 12:54:57 PM »

Offline Lucky17

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The early 2nd round pick  might be more valuable than the #28 pick in terms of moving up because it gives teams more flexibility with the deal that gets signed with the player.

Agreed. It could also make the #28 pick that much more expendable if another GM calls Ainge looking to get a particular guy still on the board.
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Re: How can Danny Trade Up
« Reply #18 on: April 27, 2015, 12:59:23 PM »

Offline CelticGuardian

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I think the only reasonably realistic scenario mentioned would be OKC giving up their pick in some kind of trade down + player deal.

OKC sends: 14th pick
Boston sends:Dallas 2016 pick+Zeller or Turner

I can't see any scenario where Utah gives up Hayward for Bradley.
Would you swap Hayward for Bradley? Hell no!

Other options would be future picks to Miami + a young impact player for their 10th pick.
Miami sends: 2015 pick#10
Celtics send: 2015 pick#16+Clippers pick#28+Turner

Final options are likely to be something like our own 2015 #16 pick AND Bradley or Olynyk on the way out with a top 10 pick coming our way.

People really have no idea what the price of a lottery pick is... Hayward's contract though? 15 million a year! Jazz, tried winning with him this year, they obviously need more firepower at the 2 guard spot and maybe letting Rodney Hood take the helm at the 3... in either case they could offer less to a Tobias Harris or Khris Middleton, they need a good point guard and backup big too. Let's help em out.

Re: How can Danny Trade Up
« Reply #19 on: April 27, 2015, 01:03:17 PM »

Offline CelticGuardian

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For the C's to trade up I think it would take a future first, since there isn't a whole ton of value in the 28th pick.

For the record I am 100% in favor of trading a Mavs or Brooklyn pick to get into the top 10 and grab WCS or Stanley Johnson.

I see Winslow, Johnson, and even Hezonja getting picked over WCS... Kings already have Demarcus. The Pistons already have Drummond, might get Prozingis to stretch the floor.. the Hornets however, might nab him.
I agree on the Pistons but I think the Kings could easily slow WCS next to Cousins because WCS is quick enough to guard 4's and Cousins can shoot it enough to make that combo playable offensive spacing wise.

However, the Kings biggest need is a pg so I could see them trading back to draft Grant (assuming that they don't move up high enough in the lottery to get Mudiay or Russell)

Yeah, it's all up in the air still, there's almost never any certainty how drafts play out, but I highly expect Ainge to move up, he just has to.

Re: How can Danny Trade Up
« Reply #20 on: April 27, 2015, 01:04:12 PM »

Offline CelticGuardian

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The early 2nd round pick  might be more valuable than the #28 pick in terms of moving up because it gives teams more flexibility with the deal that gets signed with the player.

True, If it's to get deeper in the lottery though, Ainge has to use it wisely.

Re: How can Danny Trade Up
« Reply #21 on: April 27, 2015, 01:33:30 PM »

Offline CelticGuardian

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Armed with the #16, #28, #33, and #45 picks the best move for him would be to trade up, because quite simply there is just no way to sign 4 rookies in one offseason, especially if you plan to have a successful one.

Danny is going to ask himself... hmmm, which team in the lottery does not need their pick?
Or hmm, which team in the lottery needs a player that I have?

Answer: OKC, I mean do they really need pick #14? And the Jazz with pick #12, have reported interest in our $32 million dollar defensive ace, Avery Bradley.

Both scenarios are very doable. OKC needs some assurance after Enes Kanter, a stretch big who is set to be a restricted free agent, while already getting paid 6 million in the 2014-2015 campaign, OKC may not want to overpay the guy, who will most likely be trying to cash out this summer. This is where Danny will strike with Olynyk, who is 7 foot tall and can shoot threes around the same % as Kanter, and the #28 and #45 picks. Here Danny could play around and maybe grab Jeremy Lamb who is not getting any playing time, yet is averaging 6.3 points in 13 minutes, and it gives us some size and 3 pt. shooting in our backcourt, where we need it the most.  Plus that sweet #14 pick!

The Jazz offer sheet will be a bit tricky as Avery Bradley alone won’t yield us anything… Rodney Hood or Hayward?… well, it depends on how strongly he feels about reuniting Brad Stevens with his former star player.  Why would the Jazz do it? Simple, Hayward is locked in for 15 million, so they will get some flexibility this summer, plus they will be getting great perimeter defense… I’d say throw in Turner, #16 pick and #33 pick and they should loosen up their grip on Hayward and that #12 pick.

Now with the #12 picks and #14 picks in hand, Danny can trade up even further or just nab the BPA at these spots in the draft. I’d say screw that, and couple both of these picks to Miami for their #10 pick and hope and pray that  one of the high projected picks fall to us. Hopefully, WCS, as I see the teams at #5-9 biting at the talent available at the 3 spot.

so, if I'm following correctly, your net result is this:
#10 (possibly WCS but probably gone by then--probable pick is a SF or PF prospect), Hayward & Jeremy Lamb
FOR
#16, #28, #33, #45 & AB, Turner, KO.

I'd say that's a gross overpayment for a decent SF, a SG that can't get time on an OKC squad that really needs a good SG and a prospect likely to be a SF (who'll be stuck behind Hayward) or a PF (who would be lucky to be as good as Sully).

Funny, I read it in the opposite direction: that's not enough for landing a top-ten pick plus Hayward, who'd be a great scoring and facilitating wing for the current roster.

It is enough, for them to be able to land a two quality picks at #16 and #33 plus Bradley and Turner... is huge, let's not forget Gordon will be coming off a torn achilles next season.

Re: How can Danny Trade Up
« Reply #22 on: April 27, 2015, 02:43:09 PM »

Offline Endless Paradise

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Why would the Jazz need cap space? They're not a free agency destination. The kind of player that makes sense for their team and who they'd look to sign is Hayward, so what sense does it make to trade him away? It seems like you're suggesting they'd be interested in restarting and prolonging their rebuild for the sake of doing so, which seems illogical.

On top of that, you're trying to nab their lottery pick. That trade just doesn't seem workable for the Jazz. It'd be a huge step backwards for a team that, over the last half of the past season, was trending in a positive direction.

Re: How can Danny Trade Up
« Reply #23 on: April 28, 2015, 06:09:31 AM »

Offline slightly biased bias fan

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I think our best be on trading up would be with Miami and possibly Sacramento.

Miami are still in win now and a rookie at the 10 spot isn't going to help, I really think Sullinger or Thomas could get us their pick along with our 16th pick or 28th.

Sacramento will want to run and gun so i doubt Sullinger will suffice but Bradley, Young and 1-3 picks might do it. Other then those two teams I doubt any other will want to trade down for what we have.

Re: How can Danny Trade Up
« Reply #24 on: April 28, 2015, 07:15:49 AM »

Online Roy H.

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Armed with the #16, #28, #33, and #45 picks the best move for him would be to trade up, because quite simply there is just no way to sign 4 rookies in one offseason, especially if you plan to have a successful one.

Danny is going to ask himself... hmmm, which team in the lottery does not need their pick?
Or hmm, which team in the lottery needs a player that I have?

Answer: OKC, I mean do they really need pick #14? And the Jazz with pick #12, have reported interest in our $32 million dollar defensive ace, Avery Bradley.

Both scenarios are very doable. OKC needs some assurance after Enes Kanter, a stretch big who is set to be a restricted free agent, while already getting paid 6 million in the 2014-2015 campaign, OKC may not want to overpay the guy, who will most likely be trying to cash out this summer. This is where Danny will strike with Olynyk, who is 7 foot tall and can shoot threes around the same % as Kanter, and the #28 and #45 picks. Here Danny could play around and maybe grab Jeremy Lamb who is not getting any playing time, yet is averaging 6.3 points in 13 minutes, and it gives us some size and 3 pt. shooting in our backcourt, where we need it the most.  Plus that sweet #14 pick!

The Jazz offer sheet will be a bit tricky as Avery Bradley alone won’t yield us anything… Rodney Hood or Hayward?… well, it depends on how strongly he feels about reuniting Brad Stevens with his former star player.  Why would the Jazz do it? Simple, Hayward is locked in for 15 million, so they will get some flexibility this summer, plus they will be getting great perimeter defense… I’d say throw in Turner, #16 pick and #33 pick and they should loosen up their grip on Hayward and that #12 pick.

Now with the #12 picks and #14 picks in hand, Danny can trade up even further or just nab the BPA at these spots in the draft. I’d say screw that, and couple both of these picks to Miami for their #10 pick and hope and pray that  one of the high projected picks fall to us. Hopefully, WCS, as I see the teams at #5-9 biting at the talent available at the 3 spot.

so, if I'm following correctly, your net result is this:
#10 (possibly WCS but probably gone by then--probable pick is a SF or PF prospect), Hayward & Jeremy Lamb
FOR
#16, #28, #33, #45 & AB, Turner, KO.

I'd say that's a gross overpayment for a decent SF, a SG that can't get time on an OKC squad that really needs a good SG and a prospect likely to be a SF (who'll be stuck behind Hayward) or a PF (who would be lucky to be as good as Sully).

We agree that it's not realistic, but for different reasons.

Assume that the #16, #28, #33, and #45 gets you the #10, and some small additional asset.

That leaves it as Bradley, KO, and Turner for Hayward.  There's no way the Jazz do that.


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Re: How can Danny Trade Up
« Reply #25 on: April 28, 2015, 07:18:42 AM »

Online Roy H.

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Quote
let's not forget Gordon will be coming off a torn achilles next season.

Hayward had a *sore* achilles, not a torn one.  Huge difference.


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Re: How can Danny Trade Up
« Reply #26 on: April 28, 2015, 09:30:45 AM »

Offline Future Celtics Owner

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I still would take Myles Turner over wcs. This season was a waste considering we have pal wanting to trade the guys who got playoff experience.....we didn't win 1 game but everyone thinks it was worth it. Now we are trading up to get the pick we should have had in the dam first place the top 10 .

Re: How can Danny Trade Up
« Reply #27 on: April 28, 2015, 09:32:48 AM »

Offline rondohondo

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I still would take Myles Turner over wcs. This season was a waste considering we have pal wanting to trade the guys who got playoff experience.....we didn't win 1 game but everyone thinks it was worth it. Now we are trading up to get the pick we should have had in the dam first place the top 10 .

we can't use all of our picks in the next few years anyways , the point of getting them all was so we could trade up in the draft if we saw a prospect we want, or a star becomes available .

Re: How can Danny Trade Up
« Reply #28 on: April 28, 2015, 10:12:09 AM »

Offline krumeto

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I see the Kings as the best trading partner. They are in a win-now move, but have glaring holes on their roster.

C - Boogie, Back up?
PF - Landry?, Williams?, Thompson?
SF - Gay, Back up?
SG - Ben Mc, Stauskas - high potential, disastrous production so far
PG - Collison, Back up?

We can have a starter offer of stretch-4 in Kelly to pair with Boogie + 16 (say Gerian Grant for PG duties), 28 (Justin Anderson as a capable SF back-up) + 33
for
6th pick (one of WCS or Johnson or Winslow will be there)

We can eat some of the terrible contracts (Thompson?) with the Prince exception.


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Re: How can Danny Trade Up
« Reply #29 on: April 28, 2015, 10:27:39 AM »

Offline saltlover

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To move up, the C's have a lot of assets at their disposal:

1) Their 4 picks this year.
2) One of the 2016 firsts (Brooklyn, Dallas, or our own).
3) One of Sullinger, Olynyk, and Zeller
4) James Young
5) The Minny 1st/2 2nds
6) Our myriad of 2016 2nds
7) Our more distant 1sts
8) Our trade exceptions to absorb salary

For example, in 2013 we held pick #16, and it cost us two 2014 2nd rounders to move to #13.  That is a very easy price to match again if there's someone who slides into the late lottery that piques Danny's interest, as we have four 2016 2nd-rounders, not including the Minny pick.  In 2011, we dropped from 25 to 27 for a 2014 2nd rounder.  Moving up a couple spots from the Clippers pick is also easily affordable.  In other words, I think it's pretty easy to move up 3-5 spots from both of our current selections without sacrificing anything more than 2nd round picks, or at most the Minny pick.  And depending how the draft falls, that may be enough to get a very good player.

To move into the 8-10 range, I think it would cost us #16, the more favorable of our 2016 pick or the Dallas 2016, both Top 7 protected, and one of our 2nd rounders from Philly.  To move to the 6-7 range, I think it's the above, plus a player on a rookie contract (Young, Olynyk, Zeller, or Sullinger).  Possibly the Philly 2nd wouldn't be needed in this case.  To move into the 3-5 range, I think it's #16, the best of our 2016 1sts (Brooklyn, Dallas, our own) with no protection, a rookie deal player that isn't Smart, the Minny pick, and probably a more distant first like the Memphis pick.  I don't see any team with the top 2 picks trading it for a smorgasbord of lesser picks and young players.  #3 admittedly might be a stretch as well, but I think it depends how the lottery shakes out.  For instance, if Sacramento slides up to #3, do they really need to pick their 3rd SG in a row with a top 10 pick (choosing Russell), or might they be willing to slide back this year and acquire a bunch of other pieces, considering they owe multiple future picks?

Anyway, while it's certainly no guarantee the C's trade up (it does take two to tango, after all), I think they can easily move up a few spaces on both of their picks, and get into the top 10 without paying a price that isn't affordable.  And if Ainge identifies a player he thinks is truly special and one he can build a franchise around, he can get that player too, as long as that player isn't Karl-Anthony Towns.