Author Topic: Who are tankers mad at exactly?  (Read 6680 times)

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Who are tankers mad at exactly?
« on: April 26, 2015, 05:13:35 PM »

Offline droopdog7

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I understand the logic of tanking for a better draft pick.  I mean, it's not rocket science.  But what I don't get is, what exactly are people upset about?  I mean, I certainly don't want a coach or players that don't care about winning.  And that includes a coach that does anything other than try to win the games in front of him.

Ainge traded away our all star and the other players that had any value.  Players like bass and sully and olynyk are average to below average. Either nobody wants them (i.e., they have no value) which means keeping them should be a good thing. 

The only real move ainge made to upgrade the roster was trading for Thomas.  And really, the train was trending upward before he got to the celts.  And really, ainge understands that (unlike most fans) that you build a good team in large part by signing players that outperform their contract (while most fans speculate about over paying or restricted players.  Ainge also understands that it is unlikely that mega stars will be coming to town.  No, ainge will have to do it the hard way.

So at the end of the day, this team made the playoffs because they outperformed their talent in a really weak conference.  I would have liked a higher pick too, but if I am upset, there really isn't anyone to be mad at.

Re: Who are tankers mad at exactly?
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2015, 05:16:55 PM »

Offline BigAlTheFuture

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Tankers are mad at anti-tankers lol. pretty funny if you ask me
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Re: Who are tankers mad at exactly?
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2015, 05:22:54 PM »

Offline CelticSooner

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As was beaten to death, if Ainge wanted to really tank he hired the wrong coach.

Re: Who are tankers mad at exactly?
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2015, 05:26:16 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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As was beaten to death, if Ainge wanted to really tank he hired the wrong coach.
Yeah I mean... we finished 19 games above the Lakers (top 4 pick) in spite of trading everyone relevant and fielding a team entirely of role players.  Not much that could have been done this season to bottom out beyond getting rid of Stevens.  I like Stevens.  I was fine with the playoffs even fully understanding we were getting swept.  Lets hope the good vibes have some tangible benefit this Summer. 

I was far more interested in tanking last season, because I saw a deep draft of maybe 8 impact players and a few that could reasonably become superstars.  We tanked and missed out on a superstar prospect, but Marcus Smart was a great consolation prize.  No complaints there.  Smart is our best asset.

Re: Who are tankers mad at exactly?
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2015, 05:34:24 PM »

Offline LooseCannon

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The tankers' line of thinking has internal logic.  They believe that you need a franchise player to contend, that franchise players are only available with high draft picks, and that the Celtics can only acquire a franchise player by drafting one or trading a high draft pick for one because no top free agent will come to Boston.

If you agree with their premises, they are correct that the Celtics need to tank to contend in the future and this season was a step away from contending.  I just happen to think that it is foolish to believe in their premises.
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Re: Who are tankers mad at exactly?
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2015, 05:47:19 PM »

Offline Mass_1081

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The tankers' line of thinking has internal logic.  They believe that you need a franchise player to contend, that franchise players are only available with high draft picks, and that the Celtics can only acquire a franchise player by drafting one or trading a high draft pick for one because no top free agent will come to Boston.

If you agree with their premises, they are correct that the Celtics need to tank to contend in the future and this season was a step away from contending.  I just happen to think that it is foolish to believe in their premises.

  I was all for getting a lottery pick this year, but I know that there are other ways to aquire one. Having a lottery pick just makes Ainge's job that much easier. If you want to trade for a star player then you need that centerpiece to do it. This team doesn't have it, Ainge has a chance this summer to aquire one, it's just going to be difficult.

Re: Who are tankers mad at exactly?
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2015, 05:47:34 PM »

Offline Xepa

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Entire YEARS of the rebuild are wasted by competing this year for a playoff spot.

Keeping Stevens happy doesn't matter if the team inevitably has to go through pain for the picks, which will then lead Stevens to leaving anyways.

Stevens and role players won't attract top flight FAs.

And it's not just about drafting a potential superstar, it's the "optionality" of using those assets to trade for superstars. No one on this team is an asset except for Marcus Smart. Thinking anything else is feeding into the homerism hype of trade value (aka Brandon Bass syndome).

Re: Who are tankers mad at exactly?
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2015, 06:10:09 PM »

Offline oldtype

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So let's say your a tanker. You believe that the team should do everything they can to lose and acquire a high draft pick and draft a franchise talent if they don't already have one.

Your ideal scenario is basically OKC. You literally cannot execute tanking any better than them: three prospects they drafted with high picks ended up as perhaps 3 of the 5 best players in the NBA.

Where is OKC now? They haven't won a championship. Their best player may walk in free agency. They just missed the playoffs and fired their coach. Obviously this might all change and they may win a title with Durant and Westbrook, but the point I'm trying to make is that there's so much luck involved with winning in the NBA, you still might not get what you want even if you tank perfectly.

So if that happens, you've squandered the dignity of your franchise and the trust of your fans over several years for what exactly? Is it all worth it just for the couple of extra percentage points ? You could easily see Philly ending up in this sort of situation: Embiid, Saric, and whoever they draft this year could all turn out to be superstars, and they still might not win. How are Philly fans going to feel about the years of embarrassment they endured?

Now I'm not saying tanking is never justified, very few things make sense in extremes. I was on-board with tanking last year, and choosing your spots well for tanking can often have great dividends (like the Spurs picking up Duncan.) But tanking year after year without regard for your situation just isn't a sustainable strategy. To have tanked this year, to have taken extreme measures to hinder a team that was playing well and wanted to play well simply doesn't make any sense. The benefit just wouldn't have been worth it given the costs.


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Re: Who are tankers mad at exactly?
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2015, 06:31:48 PM »

Offline droopdog7

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Entire YEARS of the rebuild are wasted by competing this year for a playoff spot.

Keeping Stevens happy doesn't matter if the team inevitably has to go through pain for the picks, which will then lead Stevens to leaving anyways.

Stevens and role players won't attract top flight FAs.

And it's not just about drafting a potential superstar, it's the "optionality" of using those assets to trade for superstars. No one on this team is an asset except for Marcus Smart. Thinking anything else is feeding into the homerism hype of trade value (aka Brandon Bass syndome).
Year?  As in, plural?  So far, making the playoffs his year had taken off exactly one year for the tanking crew. 

Re: Who are tankers mad at exactly?
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2015, 06:32:22 PM »

Offline ChainSmokingLikeDino

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Entire YEARS of the rebuild are wasted by competing this year for a playoff spot.

Keeping Stevens happy doesn't matter if the team inevitably has to go through pain for the picks, which will then lead Stevens to leaving anyways.

Stevens and role players won't attract top flight FAs.

And it's not just about drafting a potential superstar, it's the "optionality" of using those assets to trade for superstars. No one on this team is an asset except for Marcus Smart. Thinking anything else is feeding into the homerism hype of trade value (aka Brandon Bass syndome).

That is one possibility.

What I don't understand is the certainty that this is the ordained outcome. The Celtics still have tons of assets, a smart capable GM and a great coach.

Like, isn't there the possibility that there is more than one way to build in today's NBA? Tanking guarantees nothing. This years playoff push guarantees nothing. But neither guarantees anything in either direction. Tanking doesn't mean future success, and the playoffs doesn't automatically mean future mediocrity.

Re: Who are tankers mad at exactly?
« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2015, 06:35:44 PM »

Offline Eja117

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Entire YEARS of the rebuild are wasted by competing this year for a playoff spot.

Keeping Stevens happy doesn't matter if the team inevitably has to go through pain for the picks, which will then lead Stevens to leaving anyways.

Stevens and role players won't attract top flight FAs.

And it's not just about drafting a potential superstar, it's the "optionality" of using those assets to trade for superstars. No one on this team is an asset except for Marcus Smart. Thinking anything else is feeding into the homerism hype of trade value (aka Brandon Bass syndome).
Years of rebuilding? Like the 76ers?

Re: Who are tankers mad at exactly?
« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2015, 07:06:14 PM »

Offline Xepa

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Entire YEARS of the rebuild are wasted by competing this year for a playoff spot.

Keeping Stevens happy doesn't matter if the team inevitably has to go through pain for the picks, which will then lead Stevens to leaving anyways.

Stevens and role players won't attract top flight FAs.

And it's not just about drafting a potential superstar, it's the "optionality" of using those assets to trade for superstars. No one on this team is an asset except for Marcus Smart. Thinking anything else is feeding into the homerism hype of trade value (aka Brandon Bass syndome).
Year?  As in, plural?  So far, making the playoffs his year had taken off exactly one year for the tanking crew.

YEARS. PLURAL.


By the time the Celtics realize they need a complete teardown, Marcus Smart will be too good to prevent that. THen what, you trade Marcus Smart to tank harder? Or you ride that treadmill.

The OKC model is one possibility. And they would've gone all the way if they kept Harden and amnestied Perk, but that's on their owner. Half assed the easy part after the finished the hard part.

But all you need is 1 superstar. Houston traded for it because they had strong assets (the guaranteed Toronto lotto pick + Lamb, a mid lotto pick). Then they used the 1 cornerstone to attract the other in FA.

The difference between Philly and the Celtics is that this year, Philly fans are leaving this year with hope that their assets have strong potential to become franchise players. Noel has more star potential than anyone on this roster. With the Celtics, the strongest form of hope is the Brooklyn picks, which are overrated because Brooklyn has 0 incentive to full-tank (like how they treadmilled this year into the 8th seed) and have plenty of 2016 FA cap space. This roster has no potential. For some fans, you can put on rose colored glasses and pretend like Crowder actually means something longterm. But realistic fans see the despair in a situation of championship irrelevancy for the next 7+ years. The Sixers have legitimate hope. These years have meaning for them, despite their record. This Celtics roster, realistically looking, even Simmons joking about this multiple times, is a team of role players.

The Sixers plan can completely blow up. But so can any plan. Their picks = some possibility. This current roster = 0% chance at anything relevant. So you're just banking on a dumb GM to trade a disgrunted superstar and having a superior offer with a team of role players and overrated Brooklyn picks (when it comes to superstar trades, can we outbid the Knicks if they offer their #1 pick for Cousins? No). Or you're hoping for a FA swoon, which, in 2016, every NBA team will have cap space.

Re: Who are tankers mad at exactly?
« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2015, 07:15:42 PM »

Offline oldtype

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Are the odds of the Celtics landing a couple all-stars in trade/free agency any lower than the odds of Noel or Embiid becoming superstars and the Sixers becoming good enough before they bolt at the end of their rookie contracts?

They seem closer to me than some people think.


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Re: Who are tankers mad at exactly?
« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2015, 07:33:54 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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So called "tankers" are mad at contentious, divisive "anti-tankers" who insist on turning everything into a discussion about who is on which side.

It's tiresome.
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
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Re: Who are tankers mad at exactly?
« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2015, 08:03:01 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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They should complain to the Owners .....they set the policy

DA and CBS are not the low life tanking type people . They are competitors , not system beating cheaters to gain an edge.


I ve never seen the Celtics so called tank on purpose ...not like that awful 76 ers program...on accident by injuried players making the team very bad.

DA ...got rid of the whole veteran team .....emptied the roster ....got cheap players ...and rookies....he can't force these young guys to lose on purpose

He hired a good coach ....the guy is here for many years ......

Hopefully the NBA will fix the Philly type of non competitive ....poor pro sport franchise so they can do stupid crap like this