On the 'Toine vs Rondo contributions

[Celtics4ever]

For me, that was Posey's title, not Rondo's.

I meant he participated on a team that won the title.  Walker helped the Heat win one.

[Donoghus]

Let's not kid ourselves.  If you're gonna hold yourself to the rather ridiculous notion that its "so & so's title", then 2008 is KG through & through.

On the matter of the topic, give me Rondo.  For all his warts, when he was on, he was on.  He also put together some of the greatest Celtics postseason performances I've ever seen.  He was also a member of a Celtics championship team & a starter at that.  Walker was not.

[the_Bird]

Love both of them. Don't like seeing either guy getting as many negative comments from Celtics fans as they get. Both guys are gone now. Best to remember the good times, I reckon.

Just...  disappointed in Rondo, I mean, as much as I can be from an outside perspective.  I thought he had the chance to really take a leadership role, really take this young squad that was pretty desperate for guidance.  Didn't happen.  Really feels like he checked out of the C's as soon as they began rebuilding, he was just biding his time until he was traded or he could sign with L.A.   Stopped playing defense, by his own admission.  Just seemed to be going through the motions. 

Feels like he quit.  That's why the emotions are always going to run high and negative towards him.

Antoine was a massively flawed player, and I don't think he always understood what needed to be done to win but I never got the sense he wasn't putting forth the effort when he was on the floor. 

[soap07]

To me, Walker seemed to love playing basketball - just hated practicing the finer parts of his game. Didn't like working out. Didn't work on his ball handling, shooting, etc....

[Donoghus]

To me, Walker seemed to love playing basketball - just hated practicing the finer parts of his game. Didn't like working out. Didn't work on his ball handling, shooting, etc....

Not quite Derrick Coleman but Walker was insanely gifted and wasted a lot of it.  He got into bad habits early in his career and it carried with him. 

[soap07]

To me, Walker seemed to love playing basketball - just hated practicing the finer parts of his game. Didn't like working out. Didn't work on his ball handling, shooting, etc....

Not quite Derrick Coleman but Walker was insanely gifted and wasted a lot of it.  He got into bad habits early in his career and it carried with him.

The irony is that in the latter half of his career, Toine got in better shape. Slimmed down, etc...his skills just eroded exponentially faster than they should've.

[slamtheking]

To me, Walker seemed to love playing basketball - just hated practicing the finer parts of his game. Didn't like working out. Didn't work on his ball handling, shooting, etc....

Not quite Derrick Coleman but Walker was insanely gifted and wasted a lot of it.  He got into bad habits early in his career and it carried with him. 

shame about Coleman.  he looked ready to take over the league when the Nets had him and Kenny Anderson but he just seemed to stop caring when Drazen Petrovic died.   

[Celtics4ever]

The irony is that in the latter half of his career, Toine got in better shape. Slimmed down, etc...his skills just eroded exponentially faster than they should've.

 I sometimes think Sully has some of this in him.

[Onslaught]

Let's not kid ourselves.  If you're gonna hold yourself to the rather ridiculous notion that its "so & so's title", then 2008 is KG through & through.

Not in my book. With out The Captain then the Celtics wouldn't have got past the Cavs in the second round and KG would still be ringless.

[snively]

Loved Toine, but I go prime Rondo over prime Toine every time.  Toine for all his skill and versatility and passion never had the freak athletic chops to raise his game to the heights Rondo reached. I just can't imagine Toine being able to cross swords with the like of LeBron and come away the winner.  He had a hard enough time matching Kenyon Martin.

But both guys were absolute workhorses. 
 

[soap07]

Loved Toine, but I go prime Rondo over prime Toine every time.  Toine for all his skill and versatility and passion never had the freak athletic chops to raise his game to the heights Rondo reached. I just can't imagine Toine being able to cross swords with the like of LeBron and come away the winner.  He had a hard enough time matching Kenyon Martin.

But both guys were absolute workhorses.

This is just about where I land. Such an interesting discussion though.

[D.o.s.]

Let's not kid ourselves.  If you're gonna hold yourself to the rather ridiculous notion that its "so & so's title", then 2008 is KG through & through.

Not in my book. With out The Captain then the Celtics wouldn't have got past the Cavs in the second round and KG would still be ringless.

That's exactly part of the reason why the discussion is so silly: basketball is a team game.

That said, we saw what Paul Pierce accomplished as the best player on the Celtics for a long time: a whole lot of not much. He needed KG (and vice versa) the same way two elements need each other to create a reaction.

[Celtics18]

Love both of them. Don't like seeing either guy getting as many negative comments from Celtics fans as they get. Both guys are gone now. Best to remember the good times, I reckon.

TP.

[TitleMaster]

Here's my assessment of the 2008 title, the cornerstone was Pierce and KG.

Then, the key supporting staff was RA, Posey, and Perks in the middle.

And afterwards, the rest of the crew: House, T Allen, Rondo, Powe, BBD, Cassell, PJB, etc.

In 2010, Rondo raised his game to the key support staff level.

So in my hypothetical scenario of a 23 year old 'Toine in 2008, he'd have been in the key supporting staff, earlier on, as the vocal leader of the 2nd unit, and he would have remained on in from '09 to '12, up until PP & KG got traded.

[AntoineWalkerShimmyShake]

Antoine, obviously.