| Celtics Basketball > Celtics Talk |
| Advanced Stats Defensive MVP |
| << < (6/12) > >> |
| Ilikesports17:
--- Quote from: LarBrd33 on April 25, 2015, 12:32:55 PM --- --- Quote from: BDeCosta26 on April 24, 2015, 10:24:17 PM --- --- Quote from: Csfan1984 on April 24, 2015, 09:11:37 PM --- --- Quote from: colincb on April 24, 2015, 08:58:48 PM --- --- Quote from: Celtics4ever on April 24, 2015, 08:01:48 PM ---Although, I do not think it is going to happen another reason to go after Noel. --- End quote --- Defensively, he's elite. Offensively his real +/- is second worst in the NBA. On both sides of the ball his numbers are going to be inflated because the Sixers stunk and they were often playing against bench players on the other team. Like any other player on a really bad team, I'd be very wary of his numbers. There are people on the Sixer forums inflating his value as one might expect and a bunch of people here tabbing him as elite in defending the Hinkie plan for rebuilding. He's not. Right now, Noel's a specialist and while he may improve it's highly unlikely that he'll ever be an offensive force and he's not a great rebounder either. The Sixers moved him to PF late in the season and supposedly to stay and his numbers are likely to get worse on both sides of the ball if that's where he plays next season. --- End quote --- I agree with this. If he is a Tyson Chandler type at the very least then I'd still want him on the team. Draft offense and hope Young develops into a legit weapon. For draft I'm thinking take Vezenkov at 28. Trade a Brooklyn pick and this year's 16th pick for Noel. (Sure the guys that over value him will say that isn't enough, their opinion is well known. I feel Noel is not going to be a good PF, his value is Center and he has no offense so it's enough.) --- End quote --- I've been debating with guys around here about the value of Noel and I'm normally trying to temper their enthusiasm but I highly doubt that's enough. If it is I'd do it in a heartbeat, but I'd imagine they want more. He's the only viable asset besides more draft picks that Philly has gotten from their tankathon. Young, a 2018 BRK pick, #16, #33 and the DAL or two MIN picks might be enough. At the very least, Hinkie would need Young, a Brooklyn pick, #16 and at least one of his two seconds back. Guy loves the 2nds. --- End quote --- Noel wouldn't get traded for anything less than Marcus Smart and both our 2015 1sts. You don't trade a 20 year old elite defensive center with superstar potential. There's no reality where they trade him for a couple mid-1sts. That's like Boston trading Marcus Smart for a couple picks in the 20s. --- End quote --- Why do people say Noel is a PF? I get that he can defend all over the court but his offensive game and shot blocking prowess seem more like that of a center. It looks to me like he could be KG without that deadly midrange J, but I felt like KG was only a PF because of the midrange J. Most concede that most of his O will come from dunks and alley oops and that sounds more like a center than a PF. Also im not sure if he has superstar potential. I think he can be a star but his Offense and rebounding abilities are too far away for me to put him in the potential superstar category. I see him as KG like on D, but not the rebounder, not half the offensive player, and most likely not half the leader. |
| Csfan1984:
--- Quote from: Ilikesports17 on April 25, 2015, 01:16:11 PM --- --- Quote from: LarBrd33 on April 25, 2015, 12:32:55 PM --- --- Quote from: BDeCosta26 on April 24, 2015, 10:24:17 PM --- --- Quote from: Csfan1984 on April 24, 2015, 09:11:37 PM --- --- Quote from: colincb on April 24, 2015, 08:58:48 PM --- --- Quote from: Celtics4ever on April 24, 2015, 08:01:48 PM ---Although, I do not think it is going to happen another reason to go after Noel. --- End quote --- Defensively, he's elite. Offensively his real +/- is second worst in the NBA. On both sides of the ball his numbers are going to be inflated because the Sixers stunk and they were often playing against bench players on the other team. Like any other player on a really bad team, I'd be very wary of his numbers. There are people on the Sixer forums inflating his value as one might expect and a bunch of people here tabbing him as elite in defending the Hinkie plan for rebuilding. He's not. Right now, Noel's a specialist and while he may improve it's highly unlikely that he'll ever be an offensive force and he's not a great rebounder either. The Sixers moved him to PF late in the season and supposedly to stay and his numbers are likely to get worse on both sides of the ball if that's where he plays next season. --- End quote --- I agree with this. If he is a Tyson Chandler type at the very least then I'd still want him on the team. Draft offense and hope Young develops into a legit weapon. For draft I'm thinking take Vezenkov at 28. Trade a Brooklyn pick and this year's 16th pick for Noel. (Sure the guys that over value him will say that isn't enough, their opinion is well known. I feel Noel is not going to be a good PF, his value is Center and he has no offense so it's enough.) --- End quote --- I've been debating with guys around here about the value of Noel and I'm normally trying to temper their enthusiasm but I highly doubt that's enough. If it is I'd do it in a heartbeat, but I'd imagine they want more. He's the only viable asset besides more draft picks that Philly has gotten from their tankathon. Young, a 2018 BRK pick, #16, #33 and the DAL or two MIN picks might be enough. At the very least, Hinkie would need Young, a Brooklyn pick, #16 and at least one of his two seconds back. Guy loves the 2nds. --- End quote --- Noel wouldn't get traded for anything less than Marcus Smart and both our 2015 1sts. You don't trade a 20 year old elite defensive center with superstar potential. There's no reality where they trade him for a couple mid-1sts. That's like Boston trading Marcus Smart for a couple picks in the 20s. --- End quote --- Why do people say Noel is a PF? I get that he can defend all over the court but his offensive game and shot blocking prowess seem more like that of a center. It looks to me like he could be KG without that deadly midrange J, but I felt like KG was only a PF because of the midrange J. Most concede that most of his O will come from dunks and alley oops and that sounds more like a center than a PF. --- End quote --- No one believes he is they are saying he has to play PF if you have Embid. Most hate the idea of Noel at PF and Philly if wise will not try to do that. If Embid is healthy he is a legit 2 way player and possible super star. Noel is the guy out as he is just a defensive dynamo at Center. |
| LarBrd33:
--- Quote from: Csfan1984 on April 25, 2015, 01:01:36 PM --- --- Quote from: LarBrd33 on April 25, 2015, 12:32:55 PM --- --- Quote from: BDeCosta26 on April 24, 2015, 10:24:17 PM --- --- Quote from: Csfan1984 on April 24, 2015, 09:11:37 PM --- --- Quote from: colincb on April 24, 2015, 08:58:48 PM --- --- Quote from: Celtics4ever on April 24, 2015, 08:01:48 PM ---Although, I do not think it is going to happen another reason to go after Noel. --- End quote --- Defensively, he's elite. Offensively his real +/- is second worst in the NBA. On both sides of the ball his numbers are going to be inflated because the Sixers stunk and they were often playing against bench players on the other team. Like any other player on a really bad team, I'd be very wary of his numbers. There are people on the Sixer forums inflating his value as one might expect and a bunch of people here tabbing him as elite in defending the Hinkie plan for rebuilding. He's not. Right now, Noel's a specialist and while he may improve it's highly unlikely that he'll ever be an offensive force and he's not a great rebounder either. The Sixers moved him to PF late in the season and supposedly to stay and his numbers are likely to get worse on both sides of the ball if that's where he plays next season. --- End quote --- I agree with this. If he is a Tyson Chandler type at the very least then I'd still want him on the team. Draft offense and hope Young develops into a legit weapon. For draft I'm thinking take Vezenkov at 28. Trade a Brooklyn pick and this year's 16th pick for Noel. (Sure the guys that over value him will say that isn't enough, their opinion is well known. I feel Noel is not going to be a good PF, his value is Center and he has no offense so it's enough.) --- End quote --- I've been debating with guys around here about the value of Noel and I'm normally trying to temper their enthusiasm but I highly doubt that's enough. If it is I'd do it in a heartbeat, but I'd imagine they want more. He's the only viable asset besides more draft picks that Philly has gotten from their tankathon. Young, a 2018 BRK pick, #16, #33 and the DAL or two MIN picks might be enough. At the very least, Hinkie would need Young, a Brooklyn pick, #16 and at least one of his two seconds back. Guy loves the 2nds. --- End quote --- Noel wouldn't get traded for anything less than Marcus Smart and both our 2015 1sts. You don't trade a 20 year old elite defensive center with superstar potential. There's no reality where they trade him for a couple mid-1sts. That's like Boston trading Marcus Smart for a couple picks in the 20s. --- End quote --- I know you love Noel and keep throwing out Smart's name as the guy to add but isn't Brooklyn 2016, Celtics 2015 #16 and the #33rd pick more valuable to Philly than Smart, 16 and 28? I think Philly has to be dying for a chance at Simmons, Brown and Lab. Brooklyn will be in the lottery next year. --- End quote --- Brooklyn's 2016... that's gonna be a mid 1st most likely. You're telling me that a #15, #16 and #33 is more valuable than Smart, #16 and #28? So in other words, if someone offers us #15 and #33 for Smart and #28, you're taking it? Lol... there would be riots in Boston. And I don't "love" Noel anymore than I "loved" Drummond when I pointed out Detroit wouldn't trade him for Rajon Rondo. You aren't getting Nerlens Noel for a few crappy draft picks. You'd have a better shot trading a bunch of crappy draft picks for Jabari Parker. I'd argue that at this point Nerlens has more trade value than Parker. Actually, that's not a bad trade idea if Philly ends up with too many bigs. They can send one to the Bucks for Jabari Parker. Gives Philly a scorer to pair with the bigs and gives the Bucks a star big man prospect to pair with MCW, Giannis, etc. When Philly has options like that, I assure you they aren't taking a pu-pu-platter of mid-tier draft picks from Boston. |
| Csfan1984:
--- Quote from: LarBrd33 on April 25, 2015, 01:40:11 PM --- --- Quote from: Csfan1984 on April 25, 2015, 01:01:36 PM --- --- Quote from: LarBrd33 on April 25, 2015, 12:32:55 PM --- --- Quote from: BDeCosta26 on April 24, 2015, 10:24:17 PM --- --- Quote from: Csfan1984 on April 24, 2015, 09:11:37 PM --- --- Quote from: colincb on April 24, 2015, 08:58:48 PM --- --- Quote from: Celtics4ever on April 24, 2015, 08:01:48 PM ---Although, I do not think it is going to happen another reason to go after Noel. --- End quote --- Defensively, he's elite. Offensively his real +/- is second worst in the NBA. On both sides of the ball his numbers are going to be inflated because the Sixers stunk and they were often playing against bench players on the other team. Like any other player on a really bad team, I'd be very wary of his numbers. There are people on the Sixer forums inflating his value as one might expect and a bunch of people here tabbing him as elite in defending the Hinkie plan for rebuilding. He's not. Right now, Noel's a specialist and while he may improve it's highly unlikely that he'll ever be an offensive force and he's not a great rebounder either. The Sixers moved him to PF late in the season and supposedly to stay and his numbers are likely to get worse on both sides of the ball if that's where he plays next season. --- End quote --- I agree with this. If he is a Tyson Chandler type at the very least then I'd still want him on the team. Draft offense and hope Young develops into a legit weapon. For draft I'm thinking take Vezenkov at 28. Trade a Brooklyn pick and this year's 16th pick for Noel. (Sure the guys that over value him will say that isn't enough, their opinion is well known. I feel Noel is not going to be a good PF, his value is Center and he has no offense so it's enough.) --- End quote --- I've been debating with guys around here about the value of Noel and I'm normally trying to temper their enthusiasm but I highly doubt that's enough. If it is I'd do it in a heartbeat, but I'd imagine they want more. He's the only viable asset besides more draft picks that Philly has gotten from their tankathon. Young, a 2018 BRK pick, #16, #33 and the DAL or two MIN picks might be enough. At the very least, Hinkie would need Young, a Brooklyn pick, #16 and at least one of his two seconds back. Guy loves the 2nds. --- End quote --- Noel wouldn't get traded for anything less than Marcus Smart and both our 2015 1sts. You don't trade a 20 year old elite defensive center with superstar potential. There's no reality where they trade him for a couple mid-1sts. That's like Boston trading Marcus Smart for a couple picks in the 20s. --- End quote --- I know you love Noel and keep throwing out Smart's name as the guy to add but isn't Brooklyn 2016, Celtics 2015 #16 and the #33rd pick more valuable to Philly than Smart, 16 and 28? I think Philly has to be dying for a chance at Simmons, Brown and Lab. Brooklyn will be in the lottery next year. --- End quote --- Brooklyn's 2016... that's gonna be a mid 1st most likely. You're telling me that a #15, #16 and #33 is more valuable than Smart, #16 and #28? So in other words, if someone offers us #15 and #33 for Smart and #28, you're taking it? Lol... there would be riots in Boston. And I don't "love" Noel anymore than I "loved" Drummond when I pointed out Detroit wouldn't trade him for Rajon Rondo. You aren't getting Nerlens Noel for a few crappy draft picks. You'd have a better shot trading a bunch of crappy draft picks for Jabari Parker. I'd argue that at this point Nerlens has more trade value than Parker. Actually, that's not a bad trade idea if Philly ends up with too many bigs. They can send one to the Bucks for Jabari Parker. Gives Philly a scorer to pair with the bigs and gives the Bucks a star big man prospect to pair with MCW, Giannis, etc. When Philly has options like that, I assure you they aren't taking a pu-pu-platter of mid-tier draft picks from Boston. --- End quote --- Wow you and I have very different views on Brooklyn next season it appears. I think Brooklyn is going to be 2x worse than this year and a top 10 pick. |
| Csfan1984:
Now that you know I think Brooklyn pick is top 10 if you thought as I do could you see that position for Philly? As in Philly wanting the Brooklyn 2015 top 10 because they would pair that with Embid, their high 1st this year to take Winslow/Russell/Mudiay, 16 Oubre/Booker, 33. Ushaw, Philly and Brooklyn lotto shots are at least two top tens in 2016 (Lab and/or Simmons shot). I see it as Embid, (great shot for)Lab/Simmons, Winslow, Booker, Newman, Upshaw> Embid, (good shot at)Lab, Winslow, Smart, Booker,Woods |
| Navigation |
| Message Index |
| Next page |
| Previous page |