NBA Officiating... Human error or hidden agenda?

[crimson_stallion]

That looked to me like a flop by Zeller.

You are looking at it with your eyes right?

My eyes see a flop too.

You have 2 guys about the same height and weight (7'1" 250lb vs 7'0" 250lb).  One takes a step and lowers a shoulder causing the other to fall off his feet completely.  In no other place in the world (except soccer/football) would a physically fit person whose expecting contact be knocked off his feet by that.

Zeller had position, didn't move and was outside the restricted area.  Mozgov dropped a shoulder and charged into him with full force. 

What difference does it make if Zeller fell naturally or flopped?  According to the rule books that's a foul regardless.

Oh and the argument of those guys having similar weights really is a moot point.  I'm a big guy (about 6'0" and 260lbs) and I can guarantee you that if another 6'0" and 260 pound guy dropped a shoulder and ran full force in to my chest, I'd have a pretty hard time holding my ground without at least getting pushed back a good 20 inches...and that's if I braced myself as hard as I possibly could.  If I was just standing my ground (and not bracing with full force) it's not at all unfathomable that I'd fall back like Zeller did.

At their height you have a higher center of gravity, so you have even more chance of falling.

If Zeller's drop was exaggerated, it wouldn't have been by much.   

I consider myself a pretty fair guy, and I'm happy to defend the officials when there's a call that would be legitimately tough to call in full speed action...but there is no way you could NOT call that charge.  The guy absolutely steamrolled him.

[LarBrd33]

Human error.  I hate the ref complainers.   It's nonsensical for fans of a premiere franchise to whine about refs.  We're the Boston Celtics.  If you believe you live in a world where refs fix games for some hidden agenda, then you are essentially saying that any success Boston ever has is fueled by the refs.   So any success we had from 2008-12 had to at least be partially due to favorable calls from referees.  We had two Lakers/Celtics finals during that stretch and multiple Boston/LeBron match-ups.  You're either in or out on the NBA fixing games.  If you're in, then those series wouldn't have happened without the NBA pulling strings and making sure their most profitable match-ups took place. 

Best to let it go.

[crimson_stallion]

Actually most of the games Boston has one has been despite the mass of horrible calls, which made them all the more impressive.  I loved the Big 3 era because those guys were just so tough and clutch.  Often there were key calls made against Boston at the end of games, but they managed to get a huge stop, get the ball back, and win the game anyway.

Again sometimes calls can be 50/50 and I understand the mistake being made.  Hell, some of the calls are hard enough to make when you see it yourself in slow mo.  But then there are others that are clear as day and couldn't possibly be missed and that can't be explained in any way other than "I just turned the blind eye and pretended I didn't see it".

Under normal circumstances the only explanation I could give for that non-call against Mozgov is that it's the playoffs and the officials are letting them play...but then they called those two fouls against Bradley which disproved that theory.  Those fouls on Bradley were 50/50 calls - they are the kind that may get called or not called depending on how they are officiating on the day.  The Mozgov play was an obvious foul with absolutely no room for debate.  If they choose to callthe Bradley fouls them I'm ok with that, but then you need to call the Mozgov charge as well. 

You can't have your cake and eat it too (so to speak) - whether you choose to call the game loose or tight doesn't matter, as long as you call it that same way consistently, for both teams. 

[Beat LA]

Fwiw, both of these teams get away with murder, imo.  Every time we play the kings, whether it's in Boston or not, the officiating is ridiculous.  That being said, it's not fair to compare amateurs to professionals. Sigh.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2zPNthcTTk

[crimson_stallion]

Fwiw, both of these teams get away with murder, imo.  Every time we play the kings, whether it's in Boston or not, the officiating is ridiculous.  That being said, it's not fair to compare amateurs to professionals. Sigh.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2zPNthcTTk

I'll agree with that, the last few games we played against Sacramento, the calls definitely went in Boston's favor overall.  I haven't seen it often, but against the Kings it's a true.

Probably the only calls that I recall Boston getting consistently during he big 3 eta were the KG illegal screens - somehow he managed to teach officials how to completely ignore those about 60% of the time.  Pierce got a lot of calls on the "pump fake, then jump into the defender" variety, but then those typically always get called no matter who the offensive player is.

KG definitely snuck a few of those illegal screens past though.

But the really bad/obvious calls (like when guys get elbowed in the head and nothing gets called) tended to always go against us. 

[DesertDweller]

From fairweatherfan.......

It's usually called, but often not

What exactly does this mean?  the sentence contradicts itself entirely. it sounds okay until you think about it

[PhoSita]

There's no hidden agenda aside from keeping games and series close.

[DesertDweller]

Sometimes I think players like Zeller and Olynyk need to take an occasional "flop" so that over aggressive animals like Mozgov don't make mince meat out of them during the course of a game.  but if you are going to do some acting you had better be convincing because the last thing you want is to be known as is a flopper or you will never be getting any calls.
I have seen numerous occasions, when specifically, Olynyk was being thrown around like a rag doll and no calls were made yet he picks up all these ticky tack fouls.  when the heck is this guy going to earn his bones, he gets no respect from the officials!!!

[kozlodoev]

What difference does it make if Zeller fell naturally or flopped?  According to the rule books that's a foul regardless.

The rulebook actually considers the extent to which contact affects a player's shot, position and/or balance. That's why you don't call a foul every time Player A touches Player B.

[jeezem]

Human error.  I hate the ref complainers.   It's nonsensical for fans of a premiere franchise to whine about refs.  We're the Boston Celtics.  If you believe you live in a world where refs fix games for some hidden agenda, then you are essentially saying that any success Boston ever has is fueled by the refs.   So any success we had from 2008-12 had to at least be partially due to favorable calls from referees.  We had two Lakers/Celtics finals during that stretch and multiple Boston/LeBron match-ups.  You're either in or out on the NBA fixing games.  If you're in, then those series wouldn't have happened without the NBA pulling strings and making sure their most profitable match-ups took place. 

Best to let it go.

yes, it calls them into question.  that's why the refs tinkering with games for years makes me, and others, upset about it.  win or lose - you don't want to have to consider the refs as determining the game, yet there are endless games you can see something funny going on.  All you have to do is watch.  I think the refs should not be part of the league, but some external officiating organization.  It was one thing in the 80s to let Bird, Magic, Jordan take an extra half step on an upfake, but some players get 5 steps now, and dribbling is a carry every time just about anyone dribbles.  So, I don't think the beef is just on turning games, but also for me at least, making some nominal effort to have players follow the basic rules, like how to dribble, huge fines for flopping, acting out on the floor is an automatic technical.

[celticsclay]

There's no hidden agenda aside from keeping games and series close.

Ugh that is a pretty huge agenda. I didn't have any meat yesterday, aside from the steak I ate for dinner.

[Greenback]

How would Tommy Heinsohn answer this question?   

The first two games (and lst qtr of game 3) of the series:

Cleveland has attempted 69 free throws; Boston has attempted 47.

That is around 7 more free throws a game given to the Cavs.

Now, I don't want to think for you - but does this sound fair?  47% more free throws for the Cavs?