Author Topic: Could we nab Jordan AND Love this offseason? Cap ?  (Read 6715 times)

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Re: Could we nab Jordan AND Love this offseason? Cap ?
« Reply #15 on: April 20, 2015, 12:22:20 PM »

Offline CelticGuardian

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Rule of the day.  Don't max out guys that are max players.  Worst thing the franchise could do is overpay for players.

This.

Those guys are going to stick with their teams.

We should have a better chance landing Greg Monroe or Tobias as both of their teams are pretty bad and ours is surging. Plus Ainge has some room for negotiation, he will not need to offer any max contracts although Monroe might have a hefty price tag.

Re: Could we nab Jordan AND Love this offseason? Cap ?
« Reply #16 on: April 20, 2015, 12:35:45 PM »

Offline CelticGuardian

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Ainge could even make a move at Brook Lopez, his team wasn't showing him any love in their first game of the playoffs.

Re: Could we nab Jordan AND Love this offseason? Cap ?
« Reply #17 on: April 20, 2015, 12:46:14 PM »

Offline djbilly33

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Don't want either

Re: Could we nab Jordan AND Love this offseason? Cap ?
« Reply #18 on: April 20, 2015, 01:20:42 PM »

Online jpotter33

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Rule of the day.  Don't max out guys that are max players.  Worst thing the franchise could do is overpay for players.

I can see the argument for DJ not being a max player, but in what world is Love not a max player? Do people not realize that he's the third option on a team that boasts two of the top seven scorers in the league? Furthermore, is it not realized that as a third option he's still putting up better stats than almost anyone on our team?

The worst thing in the world our team can do is become complacent and think that an overachieving group of good role players and young potential will eventually bring us banner number 18.

Re: Could we nab Jordan AND Love this offseason? Cap ?
« Reply #19 on: April 21, 2015, 01:49:03 AM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

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These threads are simply fantasy. Let's just throw out facts such as top free agents will not come to Boston. What does Boston have that LA New York Miami and Texas do not? When you answer that question you'll realize why no big name free agents will ever entertain coming to a mid market team like Boston. Focus on trading up for Okafor or Towns instead. The Celtics tried to short cut building the right way and now it's going to cost them. The price is most of their draft picks. All could have been avoided if they just rebuilt the right way.

I would also find a taker for the tub of goo Sullinger. 2nd rounder I don't care just get him out

Unlike the Clippers, Rockets and Nets, the Celtics will have cap space.  The Heat can theoretically have cap space to sign a major free agent, but that would involve Wade, Deng, and Dragic all declining their player option and more than one them not being brought back.  Unlike the Lakers, Boston is a Kobe-free zone.  The Knicks will have cap space, but it's rumored that they want to use a lot of that to sign Greg Monroe.  The Spurs are a small-market team whose potential cap space will be soaked up if they re-sign Leonard, Ginobili, and Duncan.  The Mavericks have the flexibility to be a free agency player.

Boston is a cold-weather large market city, just like Chicago.  It might be a bit less attractive than Chicago, but it is certainly ahead of places like Philadelphia and Detroit.  Greater Boston is the sixth-largest combined statistical area.  The Celtics have the fourth-largest local TV deal.  The Celtics have ownership that is proven to not be afraid to dip into the luxury tax.

The Celtics might not be a draw for free agents who care about nightlife, but I'd argue that a player who is more interested in chasing tail off the court than chasing loose balls on the court is a bad fit for the team and shouldn't be a priority.

The bigger problem for the Celtics being a free agent draw is that it seems like Massachusetts doesn't produce very many basketball stars.  I'm not from New England, but it looks like there haven't been many players who were born in-state, so there haven't been targets who can be swayed by an argument of coming home to play.  You can't convince me that DC is a better free agent destination than Boston, but Wizards fans can at least hope that Kevin Durant might be interested in returning to the area.

Nice post. TP.
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Re: Could we nab Jordan AND Love this offseason? Cap ?
« Reply #20 on: April 21, 2015, 04:49:11 AM »

Offline Smartacus

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Rule of the day.  Don't max out guys that are max players.  Worst thing the franchise could do is overpay for players.

I can see the argument for DJ not being a max player, but in what world is Love not a max player? Do people not realize that he's the third option on a team that boasts two of the top seven scorers in the league? Furthermore, is it not realized that as a third option he's still putting up better stats than almost anyone on our team?

The worst thing in the world our team can do is become complacent and think that an overachieving group of good role players and young potential will eventually bring us banner number 18.

With the cap rising the current evaluation of a max player is going to be far lower than what a max contract will look this time in 2 years. This is the same reason Draymond Greene will likely be maxed out. This last batch of max candidates can provide value even if their overpaid by the standards of the current cap.

Say he gets the Brook Lopez 15-17 million, but this time in 2 years that contract would now be equivalent to 22-24 million, suddenly that massive Jordan contract is a bit more easy to stomach.

Re: Could we nab Jordan AND Love this offseason? Cap ?
« Reply #21 on: April 21, 2015, 06:32:07 AM »

Offline YoungOne87

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i rather go after gasol or lopez than DJ or Love, way better 2 way players

Re: Could we nab Jordan AND Love this offseason? Cap ?
« Reply #22 on: April 21, 2015, 07:58:26 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
i rather go after gasol or lopez than DJ or Love, way better 2 way players

You all lose all credibility when you put Love as a two way player.  He stinks on D, though a guy like Jordan makes him more palatable and covers some of that weakness.   I think a big who can shoot is a bad fit for CBS offense though.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2015, 09:41:47 AM by Celtics4ever »

Re: Could we nab Jordan AND Love this offseason? Cap ?
« Reply #23 on: April 21, 2015, 01:14:04 PM »

Offline hwangjini_1

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i rather go after gasol or lopez than DJ or Love, way better 2 way players

You all lose all credibility when you put Love and lopez as a two way player.  He stinks on D, though a guy like Jordan makes him more palatable and covers some of that weakness.   I think a big who can shoot is a bad fit for CBS offense though.
your point is spot on. i just expanded it a bit. plus, lopez' injury history is another concern.
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Re: Could we nab Jordan AND Love this offseason? Cap ?
« Reply #24 on: April 21, 2015, 01:46:01 PM »

Offline farishmj16

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DO NOT even mention us signing Brook Lopez this summer. He is far from the rim protector we need and is injury prone. Not to mention he's a Brooklyn Net

Re: Could we nab Jordan AND Love this offseason? Cap ?
« Reply #25 on: April 21, 2015, 02:08:44 PM »

Offline Celts Fan 508

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I really like the fit of those 3 players on the Celtics.

To the people that are saying Sullinger is basically Love, that is crazy talk.  Sully had his best season this year and finished with a 4.0 Win Share (up from last years 3.9).  Love's Win Share was an 8.7 as a third option (down from his 14.3 last year).

I think this mixture would win the Atlantic Division and could compete with any team in the East.  It would take the Celtics trading Wallace and a couple picks for a trade exception spot, and trading Sully.

2019 historical draft.  Pick 12

Tim Duncan, Oscar Robertson, Elgin Baylor, Scottie Pippen, Willis Reed, Mitch Richmond, Sam Jones, Dan Majerle, Bob Cousy, Rasheed Wallace, Shawn Kemp, Marcus Camby

Re: Could we nab Jordan AND Love this offseason? Cap ?
« Reply #26 on: April 21, 2015, 06:16:55 PM »

Offline YoungOne87

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Quote
i rather go after gasol or lopez than DJ or Love, way better 2 way players

You all lose all credibility when you put Love as a two way player.  He stinks on D, though a guy like Jordan makes him more palatable and covers some of that weakness.   I think a big who can shoot is a bad fit for CBS offense though.

i said that gasol and lopez are better two way players than love or jordan...

Re: Could we nab Jordan AND Love this offseason? Cap ?
« Reply #27 on: April 21, 2015, 06:57:00 PM »

Offline aingeforthree

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DO NOT even mention us signing Brook Lopez this summer. He is far from the rim protector we need and is injury prone. Not to mention he's a Brooklyn Net

No one is saying he's a rim protector.  He's just a better 5 man than what we have on this roster right now.  He'd be a great add.

Re: Could we nab Jordan AND Love this offseason? Cap ?
« Reply #28 on: April 21, 2015, 11:40:51 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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Ainge could even make a move at Brook Lopez, his team wasn't showing him any love in their first game of the playoffs.

A 7 foot, 260 pound center who can't play defense and who struggles to get 7 rebounds a game, and who can barely manage 50 games per season?

I'll pass, thanks!

Re: Could we nab Jordan AND Love this offseason? Cap ?
« Reply #29 on: April 22, 2015, 12:05:51 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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Rule of the day.  Don't max out guys that are max players.  Worst thing the franchise could do is overpay for players.

I can see the argument for DJ not being a max player, but in what world is Love not a max player? Do people not realize that he's the third option on a team that boasts two of the top seven scorers in the league? Furthermore, is it not realized that as a third option he's still putting up better stats than almost anyone on our team?

Love is not a max player for a number of reasons.

1) He's an inefficient scorer - the only way Love can score a lot of points, is if he jacks a LOT of shots.  Take a look at his shooting percentages at different distances and you'll see that he shoots worse then most bigs in most areas.  He's a very average mid-range shooter, his FG% inside the paint is pretty weak for a PF, and even his three point percentage (which is probably his biggest strength) is generally usually barely above average.  Offensively, he's not the type of guy who can create his own shot at will, and for that reason he's not the type of offensive player who can carry the offense for a playoff calibre team. 

2) He's not a leader.  In all of his years in Minnesota, how many times did he make the Playoffs?  That's right, none.  Look at the NBA this season - Milwaukee made the playoffs, Boston made the Playoffs, the Pelicans (in the West) made the playoffs.  None of those teams have much talent.  Hell the Pelicans without Anthony Davis would have probably finished bottom 5 in the NBA with the level of talent (or lack thereof) that they have.  Anthony Davis willed that team to the playoffs, and he did it in only his second or third season as a pro.  Even his own teammates have stated that he just doesn't have that 'leader' mentality.  It kinda reminds me of the comments Paul Pierce recently made about Deron Williams, which were along the lines of "he just doesn't have that desire to be the guy".  In this league you can only afford to sign one or two guys to max contracts, so if you sign ANYBODY to a max contract you want them to be 'that guy' who can carry and/or transform your team to a whole other level of competitive.   Love has shown no indication that he can do that. 

3) Horrible defense - Love is a really, really bad defensive player.  As in when you're on the defensive end, you may as well be playing 4 on 5.  Love basically NEEDS to score 20 points a game just to offset how much he give up on the defensive end, so the defense takes a lot of the shine off his (dramatically overrated) offense.

If I'm offering somebody a max contract, then they need to be able to absolutely carry the team in some way or other.  I have no doubts that DeAndre Jordan can carry a team by dominating the paint both defensively and on the boards, much like KG did for Boston early in the big 3 era.   He might not score a lot of points, but he doesn't have to because of the sheer number of shots he will block and alter at the basket.

Yeah I know Love is a good rebounder too (not as good as Jordan, but still pretty good) but that doesn't cover up his defensive flaws.  Also I could possibly excuse his defensive limitations if he was the type of superior offensive players who could create offense any time and score at will (e.g. Lemarcus Aldridge, Demarcus Cousins) but he isn't.  He's really a complimentary offensive player, best suited to a #2 option role. 

Also the argument of "as a third option he's putting up better stats then almost anybody on our team", I'd question that.  Look at his minutes, compare that to our guys on a per minute status.  Sully is putting up exactly the same numbers as love on a per 36-minute basis, but because he's playing less minutes his numbers don't look as good.  Sully was also our third option behind Jeff Green and Avery Bradley up until the Green trade.  Hell even Olynyk is putting up per-minute numbers that rival those of K Love, and he's probably a #6 option on this team.