Author Topic: more Embiid work ethic problems  (Read 13281 times)

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Re: more Embiid work ethic problems
« Reply #45 on: April 20, 2015, 12:14:28 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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Just being on a nothing coached ,  losing program thats set up for losing ..... Alone is enough to bring a person down.   You can't be part of something like the 76 's are doing long and most winning ball      players attitude would go to pot pretty quick.

Scorching hot take. Really hard hitting stuff.

This is old stuff. Embiid apparently was pretty frustrating to the training staff earlier, to the point where they sent him home on a road trip. That was also around the time the reports about his weight came out. Since then he's been fine.

Howard Eskin is a moron who whines about the Sixers because Sam Hinkie won't give him an interview.

Embiid isn't going anywhere until he at least plays a game.

SAQATTACK has a point, not only for player development but also for building a legit contender. If you are a quality free agent this summer, would you ever consider signing with Phili who is on all-out 5 year long tank mode and keeps trading the players they draft in a year or two, or would you sign with Boston who has been one of the top teams since the all-star break with a young , brilliant head coach , lots of assets with draft picks and cap space, and a winning atmosphere?

Philly isn't looking to sign big time free agents right now. They aren't trying to be a FA destination. They're trying to build through the draft.

Are they? They traded away their #2 pick in Evan Turner for nothing, and then traded away their top pick in MCW after a great season for nothing. That's not exactly building through the draft.

1. Evan Turner is a bad player, and was picked by the previous regime 5 years ago. Stop.

2. MCW was traded for a pick that will be in the to 10 this year or next barring a miracle. That's not nothing, facts matter.

MCW was a #1 pick, an almost unanimous ROTY selection, and a 6''6" PG who has put up career averages of 15.7 points, 5.8 rebounds, 6.5 assists and 1.8 steals at the age of 23 on a team who doesn't have another starting caliber PG.

They traded him for a first round pick that they might not even get (the Lakers have the 3rd worst record in the league, and the pick is top 5 protected).

So they may have, in hindsight, traded him for nothing...and if they do get the pick, what's the probability of a 1st round pick outside of the top 5 being as good as MCW?  Possible, but not likely.

I think Philly dumped MCW purely because he's too productive, and there was a risk he would hurt their tanking efforts.  How bad are you when your are so obsessed with tanking that you are willing to give up the very player you acquired by tanking in the first place, just to strengthen your future tanking?

This is like the 'inception' of tanking - it's a tank within a tank lol

Also if you want to trade away a guy you tanked for, why trade away the PG that you have a genuine need for?  Why not trade Embiid or Noel, knowing you don't need both of them?

The funniest part of all is that by the time Philly actually have enough talent (from the draft) to start actually winning some games, guys like Embiid and Noel are going to be reaching the end of their Rookie contracts and will probably leave in free agency.  After all, it's not like Philly are selling a "winning" environment.

It's hard to see all of this paying off to be honest...

Re: more Embiid work ethic problems
« Reply #46 on: April 20, 2015, 12:43:57 AM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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I think he's going to be a superstar long-term.   I think it was just frustrating for him not being able to play basketball.  He's been fine the last couple months.  Will be exciting to see him in summer league.  It will not take long to shut up the naysayers who desperately want to compare him to Greg Oden.

I understand why you think this, and you could be right, but I honestly just don't think he will be that good.

When I was watching pre-draft material on the 2014 draft class I saw a guy who dominated over his college brethren due to his physical gifts, but who also looked to be quite raw, a little lazy and a bit of a bone head.

In the NBA guys rarely become dominant superstars based on freakish physical gifts alone.  the guys who really dominate tend to have an incredible skill set, an extremely high Basketball IQ, or an unbreakable work ethic - I don't really see any of that in Embiid.

Embiid's only elite asset right now is the array of physical gifts he's been blessed with, but that isn't as big a benefit in the NBA as it is in college, and even those gifts are put to risk by his injury history.  His skill set is versatile, but also very raw.  His basketball IQ is very lacking, and his level of effort / motivation looks questionable. 

I think Embiid will be a solid player, probably a good starter in this league.  Not sure he'll be much more than that.  I'm thinking he'll be a 13 point, 9 rebound, 2.5 block type of guy - kind of a shorter, more mobile version of Roy Hibbert.
Self thought Embiid could be the #1 pick in 2016 or 2017.  Instead he was competing for #1 in 2015 until his injury.  You don't improve as quickly as Embiid did with low basketball IQ.  If he can stay healthy, Embiid has all the tools to be a star. 

Re: more Embiid work ethic problems
« Reply #47 on: April 20, 2015, 12:53:42 AM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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Just being on a nothing coached ,  losing program thats set up for losing ..... Alone is enough to bring a person down.   You can't be part of something like the 76 's are doing long and most winning ball      players attitude would go to pot pretty quick.

Scorching hot take. Really hard hitting stuff.

This is old stuff. Embiid apparently was pretty frustrating to the training staff earlier, to the point where they sent him home on a road trip. That was also around the time the reports about his weight came out. Since then he's been fine.

Howard Eskin is a moron who whines about the Sixers because Sam Hinkie won't give him an interview.

Embiid isn't going anywhere until he at least plays a game.

SAQATTACK has a point, not only for player development but also for building a legit contender. If you are a quality free agent this summer, would you ever consider signing with Phili who is on all-out 5 year long tank mode and keeps trading the players they draft in a year or two, or would you sign with Boston who has been one of the top teams since the all-star break with a young , brilliant head coach , lots of assets with draft picks and cap space, and a winning atmosphere?

Philly isn't looking to sign big time free agents right now. They aren't trying to be a FA destination. They're trying to build through the draft.

Are they? They traded away their #2 pick in Evan Turner for nothing, and then traded away their top pick in MCW after a great season for nothing. That's not exactly building through the draft.

1. Evan Turner is a bad player, and was picked by the previous regime 5 years ago. Stop.

2. MCW was traded for a pick that will be in the to 10 this year or next barring a miracle. That's not nothing, facts matter.

MCW was a #1 pick, an almost unanimous ROTY selection, and a 6''6" PG who has put up career averages of 15.7 points, 5.8 rebounds, 6.5 assists and 1.8 steals at the age of 23 on a team who doesn't have another starting caliber PG.

They traded him for a first round pick that they might not even get (the Lakers have the 3rd worst record in the league, and the pick is top 5 protected).

So they may have, in hindsight, traded him for nothing...and if they do get the pick, what's the probability of a 1st round pick outside of the top 5 being as good as MCW?  Possible, but not likely.

I think Philly dumped MCW purely because he's too productive, and there was a risk he would hurt their tanking efforts.  How bad are you when your are so obsessed with tanking that you are willing to give up the very player you acquired by tanking in the first place, just to strengthen your future tanking?

This is like the 'inception' of tanking - it's a tank within a tank lol

Also if you want to trade away a guy you tanked for, why trade away the PG that you have a genuine need for?  Why not trade Embiid or Noel, knowing you don't need both of them?

The funniest part of all is that by the time Philly actually have enough talent (from the draft) to start actually winning some games, guys like Embiid and Noel are going to be reaching the end of their Rookie contracts and will probably leave in free agency.  After all, it's not like Philly are selling a "winning" environment.

It's hard to see all of this paying off to be honest...
If the Sixers don't get the Lakers pick this year, they'll almost certainly get it next year.  So they didn't trade MCW for nothing.  MCW was the starting PG while the Sixers were losing all those games before he was traded.  He wasn't leading them to victories.  The Sixers actually played better late in the season with Ish Smith as the starting PG.  The Sixers rookies will be restricted free agents at the end of their contracts so they can't just leave in free agency. 

Re: more Embiid work ethic problems
« Reply #48 on: April 20, 2015, 01:23:24 AM »

Offline Sixth Man

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Just being on a nothing coached ,  losing program thats set up for losing ..... Alone is enough to bring a person down.   You can't be part of something like the 76 's are doing long and most winning ball      players attitude would go to pot pretty quick.

Scorching hot take. Really hard hitting stuff.

This is old stuff. Embiid apparently was pretty frustrating to the training staff earlier, to the point where they sent him home on a road trip. That was also around the time the reports about his weight came out. Since then he's been fine.

Howard Eskin is a moron who whines about the Sixers because Sam Hinkie won't give him an interview.

Embiid isn't going anywhere until he at least plays a game.

SAQATTACK has a point, not only for player development but also for building a legit contender. If you are a quality free agent this summer, would you ever consider signing with Phili who is on all-out 5 year long tank mode and keeps trading the players they draft in a year or two, or would you sign with Boston who has been one of the top teams since the all-star break with a young , brilliant head coach , lots of assets with draft picks and cap space, and a winning atmosphere?

Philly isn't looking to sign big time free agents right now. They aren't trying to be a FA destination. They're trying to build through the draft.

Are they? They traded away their #2 pick in Evan Turner for nothing, and then traded away their top pick in MCW after a great season for nothing. That's not exactly building through the draft.

1. Evan Turner is a bad player, and was picked by the previous regime 5 years ago. Stop.

2. MCW was traded for a pick that will be in the to 10 this year or next barring a miracle. That's not nothing, facts matter.

MCW was a #1 pick, an almost unanimous ROTY selection, and a 6''6" PG who has put up career averages of 15.7 points, 5.8 rebounds, 6.5 assists and 1.8 steals at the age of 23 on a team who doesn't have another starting caliber PG.

They traded him for a first round pick that they might not even get (the Lakers have the 3rd worst record in the league, and the pick is top 5 protected).

So they may have, in hindsight, traded him for nothing...and if they do get the pick, what's the probability of a 1st round pick outside of the top 5 being as good as MCW?  Possible, but not likely.

I think Philly dumped MCW purely because he's too productive, and there was a risk he would hurt their tanking efforts.  How bad are you when your are so obsessed with tanking that you are willing to give up the very player you acquired by tanking in the first place, just to strengthen your future tanking?

This is like the 'inception' of tanking - it's a tank within a tank lol

Also if you want to trade away a guy you tanked for, why trade away the PG that you have a genuine need for?  Why not trade Embiid or Noel, knowing you don't need both of them?

The funniest part of all is that by the time Philly actually have enough talent (from the draft) to start actually winning some games, guys like Embiid and Noel are going to be reaching the end of their Rookie contracts and will probably leave in free agency.  After all, it's not like Philly are selling a "winning" environment.

It's hard to see all of this paying off to be honest...

Fookin' brilliant...thank you.  :)

Re: more Embiid work ethic problems
« Reply #49 on: April 20, 2015, 01:32:27 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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I think he's going to be a superstar long-term.   I think it was just frustrating for him not being able to play basketball.  He's been fine the last couple months.  Will be exciting to see him in summer league.  It will not take long to shut up the naysayers who desperately want to compare him to Greg Oden.

I understand why you think this, and you could be right, but I honestly just don't think he will be that good.

When I was watching pre-draft material on the 2014 draft class I saw a guy who dominated over his college brethren due to his physical gifts, but who also looked to be quite raw, a little lazy and a bit of a bone head.

In the NBA guys rarely become dominant superstars based on freakish physical gifts alone.  the guys who really dominate tend to have an incredible skill set, an extremely high Basketball IQ, or an unbreakable work ethic - I don't really see any of that in Embiid.

Embiid's only elite asset right now is the array of physical gifts he's been blessed with, but that isn't as big a benefit in the NBA as it is in college, and even those gifts are put to risk by his injury history.  His skill set is versatile, but also very raw.  His basketball IQ is very lacking, and his level of effort / motivation looks questionable. 

I think Embiid will be a solid player, probably a good starter in this league.  Not sure he'll be much more than that.  I'm thinking he'll be a 13 point, 9 rebound, 2.5 block type of guy - kind of a shorter, more mobile version of Roy Hibbert.
Self thought Embiid could be the #1 pick in 2016 or 2017.  Instead he was competing for #1 in 2015 until his injury.  You don't improve as quickly as Embiid did with low basketball IQ.  If he can stay healthy, Embiid has all the tools to be a star.

That's funny, because Fab Melo improved dramatically from his first college season to his second as well - that's what had people so curious about his potential.

Didn't work out so well.

Obviously Embiid is not Fab Melo, but the point is you don't need to have high IQ to improve that way.

Look at Embiid play - watch the number of unforced turnovers and the number of poor decisions he makes are pretty clear to see. 

Last season he averaged 5.3 fouls per 36 minutes, 3.7 turnovers per 36 minutes, and had an assist/TO ratio of 0.5 - those figures should tell you all you need to know about his basketball IQ on both ends of the floor.

Also those figures are in college competition, against guys who he was absolutely physically dominant over.  So how do you think he will fare in the NBA, when he suddenly finds he's not so big/long/athletic compared to everybody else, and when every guy in the league is smarter than he is?

For comparison purposes, Nerlens Noel (who wasn't know for his offensive game, and has struggled on that end of the floor in the NBA) in his final college year had an assist/TO ratio of 0.84, averaged 2.1 turnovers per 36 minutes, and averaged 2.9 fouls per 36 minutes.

Noel was also a more dominant force defensively than Embiid was. 

It's still not out of the question that Embiid could become a star, but I just don't think he'll be as good as people expect - much like Wiggins hasn't become the next Lebron (as people suspected).

Re: more Embiid work ethic problems
« Reply #50 on: April 20, 2015, 01:39:44 AM »

Offline RAAAAAAAANDY

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Just being on a nothing coached ,  losing program thats set up for losing ..... Alone is enough to bring a person down.   You can't be part of something like the 76 's are doing long and most winning ball      players attitude would go to pot pretty quick.

Scorching hot take. Really hard hitting stuff.

This is old stuff. Embiid apparently was pretty frustrating to the training staff earlier, to the point where they sent him home on a road trip. That was also around the time the reports about his weight came out. Since then he's been fine.

Howard Eskin is a moron who whines about the Sixers because Sam Hinkie won't give him an interview.

Embiid isn't going anywhere until he at least plays a game.

SAQATTACK has a point, not only for player development but also for building a legit contender. If you are a quality free agent this summer, would you ever consider signing with Phili who is on all-out 5 year long tank mode and keeps trading the players they draft in a year or two, or would you sign with Boston who has been one of the top teams since the all-star break with a young , brilliant head coach , lots of assets with draft picks and cap space, and a winning atmosphere?

Philly isn't looking to sign big time free agents right now. They aren't trying to be a FA destination. They're trying to build through the draft.

Are they? They traded away their #2 pick in Evan Turner for nothing, and then traded away their top pick in MCW after a great season for nothing. That's not exactly building through the draft.

1. Evan Turner is a bad player, and was picked by the previous regime 5 years ago. Stop.

2. MCW was traded for a pick that will be in the to 10 this year or next barring a miracle. That's not nothing, facts matter.

Turner performing pretty well for the Celtics! ;D

He's had one of the worst shooting seasons of his entire career. He's been less efficient here than he was in Philly and his efficiency was bad in Philly.

Re: more Embiid work ethic problems
« Reply #51 on: April 20, 2015, 01:52:52 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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Just being on a nothing coached ,  losing program thats set up for losing ..... Alone is enough to bring a person down.   You can't be part of something like the 76 's are doing long and most winning ball      players attitude would go to pot pretty quick.

Scorching hot take. Really hard hitting stuff.

This is old stuff. Embiid apparently was pretty frustrating to the training staff earlier, to the point where they sent him home on a road trip. That was also around the time the reports about his weight came out. Since then he's been fine.

Howard Eskin is a moron who whines about the Sixers because Sam Hinkie won't give him an interview.

Embiid isn't going anywhere until he at least plays a game.

SAQATTACK has a point, not only for player development but also for building a legit contender. If you are a quality free agent this summer, would you ever consider signing with Phili who is on all-out 5 year long tank mode and keeps trading the players they draft in a year or two, or would you sign with Boston who has been one of the top teams since the all-star break with a young , brilliant head coach , lots of assets with draft picks and cap space, and a winning atmosphere?

Philly isn't looking to sign big time free agents right now. They aren't trying to be a FA destination. They're trying to build through the draft.

Are they? They traded away their #2 pick in Evan Turner for nothing, and then traded away their top pick in MCW after a great season for nothing. That's not exactly building through the draft.

1. Evan Turner is a bad player, and was picked by the previous regime 5 years ago. Stop.

2. MCW was traded for a pick that will be in the to 10 this year or next barring a miracle. That's not nothing, facts matter.

MCW was a #1 pick, an almost unanimous ROTY selection, and a 6''6" PG who has put up career averages of 15.7 points, 5.8 rebounds, 6.5 assists and 1.8 steals at the age of 23 on a team who doesn't have another starting caliber PG.

They traded him for a first round pick that they might not even get (the Lakers have the 3rd worst record in the league, and the pick is top 5 protected).

So they may have, in hindsight, traded him for nothing...and if they do get the pick, what's the probability of a 1st round pick outside of the top 5 being as good as MCW?  Possible, but not likely.

I think Philly dumped MCW purely because he's too productive, and there was a risk he would hurt their tanking efforts.  How bad are you when your are so obsessed with tanking that you are willing to give up the very player you acquired by tanking in the first place, just to strengthen your future tanking?

This is like the 'inception' of tanking - it's a tank within a tank lol

Also if you want to trade away a guy you tanked for, why trade away the PG that you have a genuine need for?  Why not trade Embiid or Noel, knowing you don't need both of them?

The funniest part of all is that by the time Philly actually have enough talent (from the draft) to start actually winning some games, guys like Embiid and Noel are going to be reaching the end of their Rookie contracts and will probably leave in free agency.  After all, it's not like Philly are selling a "winning" environment.

It's hard to see all of this paying off to be honest...
If the Sixers don't get the Lakers pick this year, they'll almost certainly get it next year.  So they didn't trade MCW for nothing.  MCW was the starting PG while the Sixers were losing all those games before he was traded.  He wasn't leading them to victories.  The Sixers actually played better late in the season with Ish Smith as the starting PG.  The Sixers rookies will be restricted free agents at the end of their contracts so they can't just leave in free agency.

Yeah but what happens if Embiid or Noel (or both) fail to become the star players people initially thought they'd be?  What if some team offers them max contracts - will Philly match, or will they let them walk? They cold be in a lose-lose situation regardless.  If they match it, then they are paying max contracts to guys who don't deserve it, purely because they don't want to lose them for nothing.  If they don't match it, then their young talents walk and all this tanking was for nothing. 

The 'pro tanking' guys all look at Philly's situation as of this team has two certain stars on the roster, but Noel has not proven he can be anything more than a defensive role player, and Embiid hasn't proven anything.  MCW had already proven he was a good player, and that he had the potential to be a very good starter (maybe a star) in the NBA.  It's entirely possible that, after all is said and done, Carter-Williams could prove to be the best player they got out of this entire 'tanking' process.

Also what if they don't get the Lakers pick this year, and they Lakers end up with a top 4 pick who turns in to a star, plus gets Kobe back, plus gets Randle back, and then ends up making (or just missing) the playoffs next year?  Then Philly gets a pick in the 15-20 range.  Or even worse what if the Lakers get even worse and finished last or second last (in which case they are guaranteed a 4th or 5th pick at worst) and Philly gets no pick at all next year or the year after?

None of these scenarios are out of the realm of possibility. 

Philly took a big risk - a silly risk IMO.

There's an old saying in Poker that you always play the RIGHT hand.  Sometimes you might choose not to chase that flush, and then the extra heart comes up, and you think "[dang], I could have had that!".  But then you remind yourself that even though you may have won, the odds were against you, so you made the right decision.

I believe the odds are against Philly because they traded a former #1 pick (who WASN'T a bust) for a future pick that has zero possibility of being a #1 (or even top 5) pick.  In my eyes, that's just bad management. 

For argument's sake, lets look at the 2014 draft.  There is not a single guy in this (apparently super-deep) draft that put up the kind of numbers that MCW put up in his rookie year.  The closest is Wiggins, who put up similar scoring numbers but nowhere near as good overall numbers.  Even if the three guys who got hurt (Randle, Embiid and Parker) all turn out to be all-stars in the future, two of those three guys (plus Wiggins) were all drafted in the top 5.

Looking at the guys who fell from 6th onwards, if you had MCW on your roster, wich of those guys (in hindsight) would you consider trading him for?  Maybe Smart and Payton.  Maybe that guy in Chicago (forget his name).  On a stretch maybe Randle. Probably nobody else would even get consideration.

Re: more Embiid work ethic problems
« Reply #52 on: April 20, 2015, 01:54:33 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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Just being on a nothing coached ,  losing program thats set up for losing ..... Alone is enough to bring a person down.   You can't be part of something like the 76 's are doing long and most winning ball      players attitude would go to pot pretty quick.

Scorching hot take. Really hard hitting stuff.

This is old stuff. Embiid apparently was pretty frustrating to the training staff earlier, to the point where they sent him home on a road trip. That was also around the time the reports about his weight came out. Since then he's been fine.

Howard Eskin is a moron who whines about the Sixers because Sam Hinkie won't give him an interview.

Embiid isn't going anywhere until he at least plays a game.

SAQATTACK has a point, not only for player development but also for building a legit contender. If you are a quality free agent this summer, would you ever consider signing with Phili who is on all-out 5 year long tank mode and keeps trading the players they draft in a year or two, or would you sign with Boston who has been one of the top teams since the all-star break with a young , brilliant head coach , lots of assets with draft picks and cap space, and a winning atmosphere?

Philly isn't looking to sign big time free agents right now. They aren't trying to be a FA destination. They're trying to build through the draft.

Are they? They traded away their #2 pick in Evan Turner for nothing, and then traded away their top pick in MCW after a great season for nothing. That's not exactly building through the draft.

1. Evan Turner is a bad player, and was picked by the previous regime 5 years ago. Stop.

2. MCW was traded for a pick that will be in the to 10 this year or next barring a miracle. That's not nothing, facts matter.

Turner performing pretty well for the Celtics! ;D

He's had one of the worst shooting seasons of his entire career. He's been less efficient here than he was in Philly and his efficiency was bad in Philly.

That's true, but he has also collected the first three triple-doubles of his career here.

No matter what the stats say he's been a huge reason for our success...his play making ability has been huge for us (as has his ability to get to the basket) and he's had some pretty big games. 

Re: more Embiid work ethic problems
« Reply #53 on: April 20, 2015, 01:59:37 AM »

Offline RAAAAAAAANDY

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Just being on a nothing coached ,  losing program thats set up for losing ..... Alone is enough to bring a person down.   You can't be part of something like the 76 's are doing long and most winning ball      players attitude would go to pot pretty quick.

Scorching hot take. Really hard hitting stuff.

This is old stuff. Embiid apparently was pretty frustrating to the training staff earlier, to the point where they sent him home on a road trip. That was also around the time the reports about his weight came out. Since then he's been fine.

Howard Eskin is a moron who whines about the Sixers because Sam Hinkie won't give him an interview.

Embiid isn't going anywhere until he at least plays a game.

SAQATTACK has a point, not only for player development but also for building a legit contender. If you are a quality free agent this summer, would you ever consider signing with Phili who is on all-out 5 year long tank mode and keeps trading the players they draft in a year or two, or would you sign with Boston who has been one of the top teams since the all-star break with a young , brilliant head coach , lots of assets with draft picks and cap space, and a winning atmosphere?

Philly isn't looking to sign big time free agents right now. They aren't trying to be a FA destination. They're trying to build through the draft.

Are they? They traded away their #2 pick in Evan Turner for nothing, and then traded away their top pick in MCW after a great season for nothing. That's not exactly building through the draft.

1. Evan Turner is a bad player, and was picked by the previous regime 5 years ago. Stop.

2. MCW was traded for a pick that will be in the to 10 this year or next barring a miracle. That's not nothing, facts matter.

MCW was a #1 pick, an almost unanimous ROTY selection, and a 6''6" PG who has put up career averages of 15.7 points, 5.8 rebounds, 6.5 assists and 1.8 steals at the age of 23 on a team who doesn't have another starting caliber PG.

They traded him for a first round pick that they might not even get (the Lakers have the 3rd worst record in the league, and the pick is top 5 protected).

So they may have, in hindsight, traded him for nothing...and if they do get the pick, what's the probability of a 1st round pick outside of the top 5 being as good as MCW?  Possible, but not likely.

I think Philly dumped MCW purely because he's too productive, and there was a risk he would hurt their tanking efforts.  How bad are you when your are so obsessed with tanking that you are willing to give up the very player you acquired by tanking in the first place, just to strengthen your future tanking?

This is like the 'inception' of tanking - it's a tank within a tank lol

Also if you want to trade away a guy you tanked for, why trade away the PG that you have a genuine need for?  Why not trade Embiid or Noel, knowing you don't need both of them?

The funniest part of all is that by the time Philly actually have enough talent (from the draft) to start actually winning some games, guys like Embiid and Noel are going to be reaching the end of their Rookie contracts and will probably leave in free agency.  After all, it's not like Philly are selling a "winning" environment.

It's hard to see all of this paying off to be honest...

There's so much inaccurate information here it's absurd.

1. MCW is a player Kirk Goldsberry called the least efficient volume shooter in the NBA. Our bad offense? He was a major contributing factor. And Ish Smith was an objectively better player than MCW. We got better after the ASB before Brown started playing Noel at PF.

2. We didn't tank for him, he was the 11th pick in the draft not a number 1.

3. The Lakers don't have the 3rd worst record.

4. If they don't get the pick this year it just confers to next year when, barring a crazy offseason, the Lakers will be bad again.

5. Are we even sure MCW is a starting caliber PG? Espn just released a list and he wasn't in the top 30.

6. Philly dumped MCW because they got a pick that'll probably be in the top 10 for one of the worst shooting PGs in the NBA.

Re: more Embiid work ethic problems
« Reply #54 on: April 20, 2015, 02:13:02 AM »

Offline RAAAAAAAANDY

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For whatever reason Embiid and the 76ers elicit really strong responses from people, especially on this blog. People have become so passionate I feel like I have ended up arguing with people on both sides. I think people that really hate what the 76ers are doing are going to take these stories as proof that the things are imploding in Philly and Embiid will be a bust. People that like the 76ers are going to claim this is no big deal and old news.

I think if you look at this objectively, we can't really dismiss it as a complete non-story. Management and coaches have a lot of power over what gets printed and what is released to the media. It seems to me like the story was first allowed to be printed as a way of sending Embiid a message to take things a little more seriously (when it came out in March or whatever). I would guess the fact that the 76ers are publicly commenting on it now suggests that they still want that message to be heard and ingrained over the offseason. However, in the big scheme of things it doesn't sound like there is anything super dangerous or bad here. Lots of players have had these issues as Rookies and grown out of them. Hopefully Embiid can too. It's not the end of the world, but its' not a complete non-story either. Lets see how he looks and summer leagues and if this is the end of the stories about him.

Yeah, that 2nd paragraph is pretty much spot on with what I think happened and is happening.

Re: more Embiid work ethic problems
« Reply #55 on: April 20, 2015, 02:17:33 AM »

Online celticsclay

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Just being on a nothing coached ,  losing program thats set up for losing ..... Alone is enough to bring a person down.   You can't be part of something like the 76 's are doing long and most winning ball      players attitude would go to pot pretty quick.

Scorching hot take. Really hard hitting stuff.

This is old stuff. Embiid apparently was pretty frustrating to the training staff earlier, to the point where they sent him home on a road trip. That was also around the time the reports about his weight came out. Since then he's been fine.

Howard Eskin is a moron who whines about the Sixers because Sam Hinkie won't give him an interview.

Embiid isn't going anywhere until he at least plays a game.

SAQATTACK has a point, not only for player development but also for building a legit contender. If you are a quality free agent this summer, would you ever consider signing with Phili who is on all-out 5 year long tank mode and keeps trading the players they draft in a year or two, or would you sign with Boston who has been one of the top teams since the all-star break with a young , brilliant head coach , lots of assets with draft picks and cap space, and a winning atmosphere?

Philly isn't looking to sign big time free agents right now. They aren't trying to be a FA destination. They're trying to build through the draft.

Are they? They traded away their #2 pick in Evan Turner for nothing, and then traded away their top pick in MCW after a great season for nothing. That's not exactly building through the draft.

1. Evan Turner is a bad player, and was picked by the previous regime 5 years ago. Stop.

2. MCW was traded for a pick that will be in the to 10 this year or next barring a miracle. That's not nothing, facts matter.

MCW was a #1 pick, an almost unanimous ROTY selection, and a 6''6" PG who has put up career averages of 15.7 points, 5.8 rebounds, 6.5 assists and 1.8 steals at the age of 23 on a team who doesn't have another starting caliber PG.

They traded him for a first round pick that they might not even get (the Lakers have the 3rd worst record in the league, and the pick is top 5 protected).

So they may have, in hindsight, traded him for nothing...and if they do get the pick, what's the probability of a 1st round pick outside of the top 5 being as good as MCW?  Possible, but not likely.

I think Philly dumped MCW purely because he's too productive, and there was a risk he would hurt their tanking efforts.  How bad are you when your are so obsessed with tanking that you are willing to give up the very player you acquired by tanking in the first place, just to strengthen your future tanking?

This is like the 'inception' of tanking - it's a tank within a tank lol

Also if you want to trade away a guy you tanked for, why trade away the PG that you have a genuine need for?  Why not trade Embiid or Noel, knowing you don't need both of them?

The funniest part of all is that by the time Philly actually have enough talent (from the draft) to start actually winning some games, guys like Embiid and Noel are going to be reaching the end of their Rookie contracts and will probably leave in free agency.  After all, it's not like Philly are selling a "winning" environment.

It's hard to see all of this paying off to be honest...

There's so much inaccurate information here it's absurd.

1. MCW is a player Kirk Goldsberry called the least efficient volume shooter in the NBA. Our bad offense? He was a major contributing factor. And Ish Smith was an objectively better player than MCW. We got better after the ASB before Brown started playing Noel at PF.

2. We didn't tank for him, he was the 11th pick in the draft not a number 1.

3. The Lakers don't have the 3rd worst record.

4. If they don't get the pick this year it just confers to next year when, barring a crazy offseason, the Lakers will be bad again.

5. Are we even sure MCW is a starting caliber PG? Espn just released a list and he wasn't in the top 30.

6. Philly dumped MCW because they got a pick that'll probably be in the top 10 for one of the worst shooting PGs in the NBA.

You guys are both being a bit extreme. MCW is playing for a coach, who was an absolutely horrendous shooter coming into the league and was  an above average one after his first few years in the league. Maybe he will never be anything great, but him writing him off now seems really premature. As for the Lakers who really knows about that pick. If they don't get that pick this year I am sure the 76ers are a bit disappointed. Obviously the 6th pick would be a really solid return on MCW. Now next year, who knows they could make a big jump or they could be horrible again. Nobody in the world would have predicted the Bucks, Hawks, Celtics and Warriors making the improvements in their record that they did. Nobody would have predicted the implosion the Knicks had or how bad the heat would be. If that pick ends up being a number 7 or 8 next year it is probably still a decent trade (although there is some value lost in not getting a return until the 2016-2017 season). If the pick ends up being in the mid teens, then it is probably a bad trade. Jury is still out. Acting like it is a slam dunk in either direction at this point is over the top.

Re: more Embiid work ethic problems
« Reply #56 on: April 20, 2015, 02:42:34 AM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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I think he's going to be a superstar long-term.   I think it was just frustrating for him not being able to play basketball.  He's been fine the last couple months.  Will be exciting to see him in summer league.  It will not take long to shut up the naysayers who desperately want to compare him to Greg Oden.

I understand why you think this, and you could be right, but I honestly just don't think he will be that good.

When I was watching pre-draft material on the 2014 draft class I saw a guy who dominated over his college brethren due to his physical gifts, but who also looked to be quite raw, a little lazy and a bit of a bone head.

In the NBA guys rarely become dominant superstars based on freakish physical gifts alone.  the guys who really dominate tend to have an incredible skill set, an extremely high Basketball IQ, or an unbreakable work ethic - I don't really see any of that in Embiid.

Embiid's only elite asset right now is the array of physical gifts he's been blessed with, but that isn't as big a benefit in the NBA as it is in college, and even those gifts are put to risk by his injury history.  His skill set is versatile, but also very raw.  His basketball IQ is very lacking, and his level of effort / motivation looks questionable. 

I think Embiid will be a solid player, probably a good starter in this league.  Not sure he'll be much more than that.  I'm thinking he'll be a 13 point, 9 rebound, 2.5 block type of guy - kind of a shorter, more mobile version of Roy Hibbert.
Self thought Embiid could be the #1 pick in 2016 or 2017.  Instead he was competing for #1 in 2015 until his injury.  You don't improve as quickly as Embiid did with low basketball IQ.  If he can stay healthy, Embiid has all the tools to be a star.

That's funny, because Fab Melo improved dramatically from his first college season to his second as well - that's what had people so curious about his potential.

Didn't work out so well.

Obviously Embiid is not Fab Melo, but the point is you don't need to have high IQ to improve that way.

Look at Embiid play - watch the number of unforced turnovers and the number of poor decisions he makes are pretty clear to see. 

Last season he averaged 5.3 fouls per 36 minutes, 3.7 turnovers per 36 minutes, and had an assist/TO ratio of 0.5 - those figures should tell you all you need to know about his basketball IQ on both ends of the floor.

Also those figures are in college competition, against guys who he was absolutely physically dominant over.  So how do you think he will fare in the NBA, when he suddenly finds he's not so big/long/athletic compared to everybody else, and when every guy in the league is smarter than he is?

For comparison purposes, Nerlens Noel (who wasn't know for his offensive game, and has struggled on that end of the floor in the NBA) in his final college year had an assist/TO ratio of 0.84, averaged 2.1 turnovers per 36 minutes, and averaged 2.9 fouls per 36 minutes.

Noel was also a more dominant force defensively than Embiid was. 

It's still not out of the question that Embiid could become a star, but I just don't think he'll be as good as people expect - much like Wiggins hasn't become the next Lebron (as people suspected).
I actually watched around a dozen Kansas games.  How many did you watch?  Embiid was in his 1st and only college season.  Embiid was getting called for a bunch of fouls at the beginning of the year so he initially was coming off the bench.  Once he got the fouls under control, he started and became Kansas' best player.  Embiid was a focal point of the Kansas offense.  I don't believe that was the case with Noel at Kentucky.  So Embiid having more turnovers isn't surprising.  Also offensive fouls count as turnovers so that would contribute to Embiid's higher turnovers. 

Re: more Embiid work ethic problems
« Reply #57 on: April 20, 2015, 03:24:16 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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Just being on a nothing coached ,  losing program thats set up for losing ..... Alone is enough to bring a person down.   You can't be part of something like the 76 's are doing long and most winning ball      players attitude would go to pot pretty quick.

Scorching hot take. Really hard hitting stuff.

This is old stuff. Embiid apparently was pretty frustrating to the training staff earlier, to the point where they sent him home on a road trip. That was also around the time the reports about his weight came out. Since then he's been fine.

Howard Eskin is a moron who whines about the Sixers because Sam Hinkie won't give him an interview.

Embiid isn't going anywhere until he at least plays a game.

SAQATTACK has a point, not only for player development but also for building a legit contender. If you are a quality free agent this summer, would you ever consider signing with Phili who is on all-out 5 year long tank mode and keeps trading the players they draft in a year or two, or would you sign with Boston who has been one of the top teams since the all-star break with a young , brilliant head coach , lots of assets with draft picks and cap space, and a winning atmosphere?

Philly isn't looking to sign big time free agents right now. They aren't trying to be a FA destination. They're trying to build through the draft.

Are they? They traded away their #2 pick in Evan Turner for nothing, and then traded away their top pick in MCW after a great season for nothing. That's not exactly building through the draft.

1. Evan Turner is a bad player, and was picked by the previous regime 5 years ago. Stop.

2. MCW was traded for a pick that will be in the to 10 this year or next barring a miracle. That's not nothing, facts matter.

MCW was a #1 pick, an almost unanimous ROTY selection, and a 6''6" PG who has put up career averages of 15.7 points, 5.8 rebounds, 6.5 assists and 1.8 steals at the age of 23 on a team who doesn't have another starting caliber PG.

They traded him for a first round pick that they might not even get (the Lakers have the 3rd worst record in the league, and the pick is top 5 protected).

So they may have, in hindsight, traded him for nothing...and if they do get the pick, what's the probability of a 1st round pick outside of the top 5 being as good as MCW?  Possible, but not likely.

I think Philly dumped MCW purely because he's too productive, and there was a risk he would hurt their tanking efforts.  How bad are you when your are so obsessed with tanking that you are willing to give up the very player you acquired by tanking in the first place, just to strengthen your future tanking?

This is like the 'inception' of tanking - it's a tank within a tank lol

Also if you want to trade away a guy you tanked for, why trade away the PG that you have a genuine need for?  Why not trade Embiid or Noel, knowing you don't need both of them?

The funniest part of all is that by the time Philly actually have enough talent (from the draft) to start actually winning some games, guys like Embiid and Noel are going to be reaching the end of their Rookie contracts and will probably leave in free agency.  After all, it's not like Philly are selling a "winning" environment.

It's hard to see all of this paying off to be honest...

There's so much inaccurate information here it's absurd.

1. MCW is a player Kirk Goldsberry called the least efficient volume shooter in the NBA. Our bad offense? He was a major contributing factor. And Ish Smith was an objectively better player than MCW. We got better after the ASB before Brown started playing Noel at PF.

2. We didn't tank for him, he was the 11th pick in the draft not a number 1.

3. The Lakers don't have the 3rd worst record.

4. If they don't get the pick this year it just confers to next year when, barring a crazy offseason, the Lakers will be bad again.

5. Are we even sure MCW is a starting caliber PG? Espn just released a list and he wasn't in the top 30.

6. Philly dumped MCW because they got a pick that'll probably be in the top 10 for one of the worst shooting PGs in the NBA.

1.  MCW shot 43% from the field and 78% from the foul line last year.  Sure his three point percentage sucked (a big reason for his FG% being where it was) but a 43% FG percentage is actually pretty reasonable for a PG.

2. I got mixed up on this one, I must have been thinking of somebody else getting drafted #1 - I'll own that one.

3.

[th]
WinLossPCT
[/th]
Minnesota Timberwolves166619.5
New York Knicks176520.7
Philadelphia 76ers 186422.0
LA Lakers216125.6

Sorry - 4th worst record.

Because that changes a lot...odds are still strongly in their favor to land a top 5 pick, which Philly then does not get.   

4.  Next year the Lakers get Kobe back, they get Randle back, and (assuming they keep their pick) they also get a top 5 player in this year's draft.  If all that happens, the overwhelming probability is that they will be a MUCH better team next year.  Will they make the playoffs?  Not likely, but there's a good chance they end up in a 9th or 10th seed and just miss the playoffs.  Plus they are in the more competitive west, so if they finish, say 10th, that could move their pick up to the 12-15 range.

5. Isn't he starting in Milwaukee, who are playing in the playoffs right now?  I don't know because I haven't watched any Milwaukee games, but I've seen him have a couple of good games with solid minutes so I just assume he's starting.   

6. I wouldn't be so sure that you're pick will "probably" be in the top 10.  You need to hope LA gets unlucky in the lottery this year and the pick falls to #6 or #7 (I believe #7 is the furthest it can fall) but for it to drop to even #6 is reasonably unlikely. 

If my understanding of the lottery is correct, you would need to have two teams from outside the top 5 (let's say Orlando and Sacramento) both landing top 3 picks, because then picks 4 and 5 go to the other two teams that had bottom 3 records, and Lakers slip to 6th.  If only one team outside of the top 5 gets a top 3 pick (most likely) then Lakers slip to 5th.  Of course there's also the chance that Lakers themselves will fall in the top 3.

Basically the 76ers have a legit shot at getting the pick, but the odds are (if I'm calculating correctly) pretty heavily against them. 
« Last Edit: April 20, 2015, 03:32:23 AM by crimson_stallion »

Re: more Embiid work ethic problems
« Reply #58 on: April 20, 2015, 03:38:41 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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I think he's going to be a superstar long-term.   I think it was just frustrating for him not being able to play basketball.  He's been fine the last couple months.  Will be exciting to see him in summer league.  It will not take long to shut up the naysayers who desperately want to compare him to Greg Oden.

I understand why you think this, and you could be right, but I honestly just don't think he will be that good.

When I was watching pre-draft material on the 2014 draft class I saw a guy who dominated over his college brethren due to his physical gifts, but who also looked to be quite raw, a little lazy and a bit of a bone head.

In the NBA guys rarely become dominant superstars based on freakish physical gifts alone.  the guys who really dominate tend to have an incredible skill set, an extremely high Basketball IQ, or an unbreakable work ethic - I don't really see any of that in Embiid.

Embiid's only elite asset right now is the array of physical gifts he's been blessed with, but that isn't as big a benefit in the NBA as it is in college, and even those gifts are put to risk by his injury history.  His skill set is versatile, but also very raw.  His basketball IQ is very lacking, and his level of effort / motivation looks questionable. 

I think Embiid will be a solid player, probably a good starter in this league.  Not sure he'll be much more than that.  I'm thinking he'll be a 13 point, 9 rebound, 2.5 block type of guy - kind of a shorter, more mobile version of Roy Hibbert.
Self thought Embiid could be the #1 pick in 2016 or 2017.  Instead he was competing for #1 in 2015 until his injury.  You don't improve as quickly as Embiid did with low basketball IQ.  If he can stay healthy, Embiid has all the tools to be a star.

That's funny, because Fab Melo improved dramatically from his first college season to his second as well - that's what had people so curious about his potential.

Didn't work out so well.

Obviously Embiid is not Fab Melo, but the point is you don't need to have high IQ to improve that way.

Look at Embiid play - watch the number of unforced turnovers and the number of poor decisions he makes are pretty clear to see. 

Last season he averaged 5.3 fouls per 36 minutes, 3.7 turnovers per 36 minutes, and had an assist/TO ratio of 0.5 - those figures should tell you all you need to know about his basketball IQ on both ends of the floor.

Also those figures are in college competition, against guys who he was absolutely physically dominant over.  So how do you think he will fare in the NBA, when he suddenly finds he's not so big/long/athletic compared to everybody else, and when every guy in the league is smarter than he is?

For comparison purposes, Nerlens Noel (who wasn't know for his offensive game, and has struggled on that end of the floor in the NBA) in his final college year had an assist/TO ratio of 0.84, averaged 2.1 turnovers per 36 minutes, and averaged 2.9 fouls per 36 minutes.

Noel was also a more dominant force defensively than Embiid was. 

It's still not out of the question that Embiid could become a star, but I just don't think he'll be as good as people expect - much like Wiggins hasn't become the next Lebron (as people suspected).
I actually watched around a dozen Kansas games.  How many did you watch?  Embiid was in his 1st and only college season.  Embiid was getting called for a bunch of fouls at the beginning of the year so he initially was coming off the bench.  Once he got the fouls under control, he started and became Kansas' best player.  Embiid was a focal point of the Kansas offense.  I don't believe that was the case with Noel at Kentucky.  So Embiid having more turnovers isn't surprising.  Also offensive fouls count as turnovers so that would contribute to Embiid's higher turnovers.

You could argue an offensive foul is the worst type of turnover - it's a turnover and a foul in one play.  That doesn't help his case.

Also touches doesn't really matter, because this isn't just turnovers we're talking about  - it's assists per turnover.  If a guy gets more touches, his assists should go up at a similar rate.  Embiid's AST/TO rate is almost half that of Nerlens Noel.  His AST numbers on their own are about the same, despite the fact that (as you said) he featured for more in his team's offense.

Plus as I said before, It's not like Noel is known for being a skilled passer or offensive player - he's been criticised a lot this year for his poor IQ and lack of offensive skills.

Yeah, there are NBA bigs who are superstars who average lots of turnovers. Demarcus Cousins is one.  But although Cousins averages about 4.5 turnovers per 36 minutes, he also averages about 3.8 assists per 36 minutes...so his assist to turnover ratio (0.84) is about on par with Noel.  That somewhat justified his turnovers because he's touching the ball a lot, hence why he's also getting a lot of assists.

Re: more Embiid work ethic problems
« Reply #59 on: April 20, 2015, 08:06:49 AM »

Offline RAAAAAAAANDY

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Just being on a nothing coached ,  losing program thats set up for losing ..... Alone is enough to bring a person down.   You can't be part of something like the 76 's are doing long and most winning ball      players attitude would go to pot pretty quick.

Scorching hot take. Really hard hitting stuff.

This is old stuff. Embiid apparently was pretty frustrating to the training staff earlier, to the point where they sent him home on a road trip. That was also around the time the reports about his weight came out. Since then he's been fine.

Howard Eskin is a moron who whines about the Sixers because Sam Hinkie won't give him an interview.

Embiid isn't going anywhere until he at least plays a game.

SAQATTACK has a point, not only for player development but also for building a legit contender. If you are a quality free agent this summer, would you ever consider signing with Phili who is on all-out 5 year long tank mode and keeps trading the players they draft in a year or two, or would you sign with Boston who has been one of the top teams since the all-star break with a young , brilliant head coach , lots of assets with draft picks and cap space, and a winning atmosphere?

Philly isn't looking to sign big time free agents right now. They aren't trying to be a FA destination. They're trying to build through the draft.

Are they? They traded away their #2 pick in Evan Turner for nothing, and then traded away their top pick in MCW after a great season for nothing. That's not exactly building through the draft.

1. Evan Turner is a bad player, and was picked by the previous regime 5 years ago. Stop.

2. MCW was traded for a pick that will be in the to 10 this year or next barring a miracle. That's not nothing, facts matter.

MCW was a #1 pick, an almost unanimous ROTY selection, and a 6''6" PG who has put up career averages of 15.7 points, 5.8 rebounds, 6.5 assists and 1.8 steals at the age of 23 on a team who doesn't have another starting caliber PG.

They traded him for a first round pick that they might not even get (the Lakers have the 3rd worst record in the league, and the pick is top 5 protected).

So they may have, in hindsight, traded him for nothing...and if they do get the pick, what's the probability of a 1st round pick outside of the top 5 being as good as MCW?  Possible, but not likely.

I think Philly dumped MCW purely because he's too productive, and there was a risk he would hurt their tanking efforts.  How bad are you when your are so obsessed with tanking that you are willing to give up the very player you acquired by tanking in the first place, just to strengthen your future tanking?

This is like the 'inception' of tanking - it's a tank within a tank lol

Also if you want to trade away a guy you tanked for, why trade away the PG that you have a genuine need for?  Why not trade Embiid or Noel, knowing you don't need both of them?

The funniest part of all is that by the time Philly actually have enough talent (from the draft) to start actually winning some games, guys like Embiid and Noel are going to be reaching the end of their Rookie contracts and will probably leave in free agency.  After all, it's not like Philly are selling a "winning" environment.

It's hard to see all of this paying off to be honest...

There's so much inaccurate information here it's absurd.

1. MCW is a player Kirk Goldsberry called the least efficient volume shooter in the NBA. Our bad offense? He was a major contributing factor. And Ish Smith was an objectively better player than MCW. We got better after the ASB before Brown started playing Noel at PF.

2. We didn't tank for him, he was the 11th pick in the draft not a number 1.

3. The Lakers don't have the 3rd worst record.

4. If they don't get the pick this year it just confers to next year when, barring a crazy offseason, the Lakers will be bad again.

5. Are we even sure MCW is a starting caliber PG? Espn just released a list and he wasn't in the top 30.

6. Philly dumped MCW because they got a pick that'll probably be in the top 10 for one of the worst shooting PGs in the NBA.

1.  MCW shot 43% from the field and 78% from the foul line last year.  Sure his three point percentage sucked (a big reason for his FG% being where it was) but a 43% FG percentage is actually pretty reasonable for a PG.

2. I got mixed up on this one, I must have been thinking of somebody else getting drafted #1 - I'll own that one.

3.

[th]
WinLossPCT
[/th]
Minnesota Timberwolves166619.5
New York Knicks176520.7
Philadelphia 76ers 186422.0
LA Lakers216125.6

Sorry - 4th worst record.

Because that changes a lot...odds are still strongly in their favor to land a top 5 pick, which Philly then does not get.   

4.  Next year the Lakers get Kobe back, they get Randle back, and (assuming they keep their pick) they also get a top 5 player in this year's draft.  If all that happens, the overwhelming probability is that they will be a MUCH better team next year.  Will they make the playoffs?  Not likely, but there's a good chance they end up in a 9th or 10th seed and just miss the playoffs.  Plus they are in the more competitive west, so if they finish, say 10th, that could move their pick up to the 12-15 range.

5. Isn't he starting in Milwaukee, who are playing in the playoffs right now?  I don't know because I haven't watched any Milwaukee games, but I've seen him have a couple of good games with solid minutes so I just assume he's starting.   

6. I wouldn't be so sure that you're pick will "probably" be in the top 10.  You need to hope LA gets unlucky in the lottery this year and the pick falls to #6 or #7 (I believe #7 is the furthest it can fall) but for it to drop to even #6 is reasonably unlikely. 

If my understanding of the lottery is correct, you would need to have two teams from outside the top 5 (let's say Orlando and Sacramento) both landing top 3 picks, because then picks 4 and 5 go to the other two teams that had bottom 3 records, and Lakers slip to 6th.  If only one team outside of the top 5 gets a top 3 pick (most likely) then Lakers slip to 5th.  Of course there's also the chance that Lakers themselves will fall in the top 3.

Basically the 76ers have a legit shot at getting the pick, but the odds are (if I'm calculating correctly) pretty heavily against them. 


The Sixers never thought they'd get that pick this year. I don't know why this seems to matter. And seriously, look at the West and tell me who of: Hou, LAC, OKC, NO, PHX, SA, Dal, Por, Memphis, GSW, And Utah the Lakers will be better than.

Kobe isn't good, Randle hasn't played a game and probably cancels out Ed Davis leaving at best, they're going to be atrocious defensively if they don't get Towns(even if they get him they could be terrible) and Byron Scott STILL DOESN'T BELIEVE IN 3 POINTERS.

They're not going to be good barring a FA miracle. That pick is much more likely to be in the top 10 than out.

How about we include MCW's shooting stats from this year...He's getting worse not better. Not sure what him starting has to do with being a starting caliber player, the Sixers started at least 3-4 guys a game who aren't starting caliber players. He still has potential, but he's an objectively bad offensive player. Our offense got better in the weeks after he left.