Author Topic: Maybe Cousins was Danny's goal all along  (Read 10577 times)

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Re: Maybe Cousins was Danny's goal all along
« Reply #15 on: April 16, 2015, 12:24:26 AM »

Offline konkmv

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Cousins is not coming... i think their main target is love....
love in free agency
koufos in free agency
sully for harkless and a picktrade up for myles turner or stein
smart bradley crowder or harkless love koufos or wcs...

Re: Maybe Cousins was Danny's goal all along
« Reply #16 on: April 16, 2015, 12:40:03 AM »

Offline LarBrd33

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teams don't want a plenthora of mid-to-late picks.  Several teams can outbid us.   I don't think you're moving the needle unless you include Marcus Smart in a trade package.  What else do we have that has theoretical future value?

Re: Maybe Cousins was Danny's goal all along
« Reply #17 on: April 16, 2015, 12:40:10 AM »

Offline chambers

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Unfortunately there are teams with far superior trade assets than ours that would likely go after Cousins too.
I saw Simmons stealing some fans trade ideas suggesting Orlando, Chicago, Phoenix, etc..
Would be very tough for us to get him here without giving up Marcus Smart and all our Brooklyn picks.

Also, IT4 was brought here as a future trade asset, and he's one of the most likely guys to go in any trade for a star.
"We are lucky we have a very patient GM that isn't willing to settle for being good and coming close. He wants to win a championship and we have the potential to get there still with our roster and assets."

quoting 'Greg B' on RealGM after 2017 trade deadline.
Read that last line again. One more time.

Re: Maybe Cousins was Danny's goal all along
« Reply #18 on: April 16, 2015, 01:21:37 AM »

Offline GratefulCs

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teams don't want a plenthora of mid-to-late picks.  Several teams can outbid us.   I don't think you're moving the needle unless you include Marcus Smart in a trade package.  What else do we have that has theoretical future value?
Well, Datome is clearly a future MVP candidate after a game like tonight, so i think a cousins for datome swap straight up gets it done


Maybe the kings have to toss in a pick or two
I trust Danny Ainge

Re: Maybe Cousins was Danny's goal all along
« Reply #19 on: April 16, 2015, 02:42:29 AM »

Offline BDeCosta26

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Cousins is not coming... i think their main target is love....
love in free agency
koufos in free agency
sully for harkless and a picktrade up for myles turner or stein
smart bradley crowder or harkless love koufos or wcs...

What? Kosta Koufos? Idk man, I guess if literally everyone else we try to get for rim-protection doesn't work out and he's willing to play 15 mpg. Zeller and KO are better at everything than him except shot-blocking.

And Moe Harkless for Sullinger? Are you out of your tree?

Sully is a considerably better player in almost every aspect. Even with being 30-40 pounds overweight and all his conditioning and work ethic issues, Sullinger managed to grab 14pts and 8 boards a game while playing right around 29mpg. Harkless had 8pts and 4rbs in 26 minutes a game. Both are under 25, and Sullinger has by far the higher upside.

Some C's fans are so frustrated with Sullinger not getting in shape that they've lost sight of what kinda value he really has. Big guys who are that young and have proven themselves to be that productive at his age will always have value. His conditioning is his only concern, even the injury this year wasn't a chronic, Walton-esque forever problem. I too have started losing hope that Sullinger will ever be the force he could be, but Ainge and Stevens vouching for the work he's done on it while injured is really encouraging. And just coming back and being in the rotation for the playoffs helps his trade value even more.

I've heard more than one person suggest that Sully has almost NO value, and we couldn't trade him if we wanted to. That couldn't be further from the truth, and trading him for Moe effing Harkless of all people is pretty much giving him away. I would certainly be willing to move him, but not for that. Sully's best trade value will probably be found in combination with other assets. Once Monroe leaves Detroit they'll be in a huge need of a young, starting-caliber PF. Trade Sullinger, #16 and the MIN 1st/2nds or the LAC pick for #9 or whatever their pick is. Bet you SVG at least considers it. He's not the kinda guy who's gonna sit around waiting for picks to develop. He's a guy who wants to take that team to the next level.

And with Cousins, don't count us out just yet. Ainge has been waiting for a star player to become available by trade for a while now. That's what all the assets are for. I wouldn't be surprised to see Ainge trade up in the draft, pick a player he knows SAC likes if he thinks there's a good chance Cousins is available and include him with one of Sullinger/KO, Zeller, Young, The 1st round pick, 2 Brooklyn picks (16, '18) and the Memphis pick (Could very well be lottery by then) as well as the MIN pick and one or two of our own future firsts. Say what you will about the teams at the top of the draft this year but the Knicks and Lakers don't have enough other assets to give. Even if one of them gets #1. And Cousins may not even want to go there. The Sixers aren't trading for him, neither are the T-Wolves. The Magic could make a play I guess. But it's not like we don't have a chance. Just cause we don't have a guaranteed lottery pick this year doesn't mean our 3 or 4 future firsts with high lottery potential don't have a lot of value.

Re: Maybe Cousins was Danny's goal all along
« Reply #20 on: April 16, 2015, 03:21:56 AM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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Cousins is not coming... i think their main target is love....
love in free agency
koufos in free agency
sully for harkless and a picktrade up for myles turner or stein
smart bradley crowder or harkless love koufos or wcs...

What? Kosta Koufos? Idk man, I guess if literally everyone else we try to get for rim-protection doesn't work out and he's willing to play 15 mpg. Zeller and KO are better at everything than him except shot-blocking.

And Moe Harkless for Sullinger? Are you out of your tree?

Sully is a considerably better player in almost every aspect. Even with being 30-40 pounds overweight and all his conditioning and work ethic issues, Sullinger managed to grab 14pts and 8 boards a game while playing right around 29mpg. Harkless had 8pts and 4rbs in 26 minutes a game. Both are under 25, and Sullinger has by far the higher upside.

Some C's fans are so frustrated with Sullinger not getting in shape that they've lost sight of what kinda value he really has. Big guys who are that young and have proven themselves to be that productive at his age will always have value. His conditioning is his only concern, even the injury this year wasn't a chronic, Walton-esque forever problem. I too have started losing hope that Sullinger will ever be the force he could be, but Ainge and Stevens vouching for the work he's done on it while injured is really encouraging. And just coming back and being in the rotation for the playoffs helps his trade value even more.

I've heard more than one person suggest that Sully has almost NO value, and we couldn't trade him if we wanted to. That couldn't be further from the truth, and trading him for Moe effing Harkless of all people is pretty much giving him away. I would certainly be willing to move him, but not for that. Sully's best trade value will probably be found in combination with other assets. Once Monroe leaves Detroit they'll be in a huge need of a young, starting-caliber PF. Trade Sullinger, #16 and the MIN 1st/2nds or the LAC pick for #9 or whatever their pick is. Bet you SVG at least considers it. He's not the kinda guy who's gonna sit around waiting for picks to develop. He's a guy who wants to take that team to the next level.

And with Cousins, don't count us out just yet. Ainge has been waiting for a star player to become available by trade for a while now. That's what all the assets are for. I wouldn't be surprised to see Ainge trade up in the draft, pick a player he knows SAC likes if he thinks there's a good chance Cousins is available and include him with one of Sullinger/KO, Zeller, Young, The 1st round pick, 2 Brooklyn picks (16, '18) and the Memphis pick (Could very well be lottery by then) as well as the MIN pick and one or two of our own future firsts. Say what you will about the teams at the top of the draft this year but the Knicks and Lakers don't have enough other assets to give. Even if one of them gets #1. And Cousins may not even want to go there. The Sixers aren't trading for him, neither are the T-Wolves. The Magic could make a play I guess. But it's not like we don't have a chance. Just cause we don't have a guaranteed lottery pick this year doesn't mean our 3 or 4 future firsts with high lottery potential don't have a lot of value.
Trading Sully, the #16 and the LAC/Minn pick for the #8 pick, doesn't put that much value on Sully.  It is a reasonable proposal but if I'm SVG I'd probably keep the #8 pick.  The overvaluing of Sully comes into play when the proposals are like Sully plus the LAC pick for the Heat #10 pick. 

Why don't you think the Sixers or T-Wolves would trade for Cousins?  They certainly could put interesting offers on the table.   

Re: Maybe Cousins was Danny's goal all along
« Reply #21 on: April 16, 2015, 01:53:19 PM »

Offline BDeCosta26

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Cousins is not coming... i think their main target is love....
love in free agency
koufos in free agency
sully for harkless and a picktrade up for myles turner or stein
smart bradley crowder or harkless love koufos or wcs...

What? Kosta Koufos? Idk man, I guess if literally everyone else we try to get for rim-protection doesn't work out and he's willing to play 15 mpg. Zeller and KO are better at everything than him except shot-blocking.

And Moe Harkless for Sullinger? Are you out of your tree?

Sully is a considerably better player in almost every aspect. Even with being 30-40 pounds overweight and all his conditioning and work ethic issues, Sullinger managed to grab 14pts and 8 boards a game while playing right around 29mpg. Harkless had 8pts and 4rbs in 26 minutes a game. Both are under 25, and Sullinger has by far the higher upside.

Some C's fans are so frustrated with Sullinger not getting in shape that they've lost sight of what kinda value he really has. Big guys who are that young and have proven themselves to be that productive at his age will always have value. His conditioning is his only concern, even the injury this year wasn't a chronic, Walton-esque forever problem. I too have started losing hope that Sullinger will ever be the force he could be, but Ainge and Stevens vouching for the work he's done on it while injured is really encouraging. And just coming back and being in the rotation for the playoffs helps his trade value even more.

I've heard more than one person suggest that Sully has almost NO value, and we couldn't trade him if we wanted to. That couldn't be further from the truth, and trading him for Moe effing Harkless of all people is pretty much giving him away. I would certainly be willing to move him, but not for that. Sully's best trade value will probably be found in combination with other assets. Once Monroe leaves Detroit they'll be in a huge need of a young, starting-caliber PF. Trade Sullinger, #16 and the MIN 1st/2nds or the LAC pick for #9 or whatever their pick is. Bet you SVG at least considers it. He's not the kinda guy who's gonna sit around waiting for picks to develop. He's a guy who wants to take that team to the next level.

And with Cousins, don't count us out just yet. Ainge has been waiting for a star player to become available by trade for a while now. That's what all the assets are for. I wouldn't be surprised to see Ainge trade up in the draft, pick a player he knows SAC likes if he thinks there's a good chance Cousins is available and include him with one of Sullinger/KO, Zeller, Young, The 1st round pick, 2 Brooklyn picks (16, '18) and the Memphis pick (Could very well be lottery by then) as well as the MIN pick and one or two of our own future firsts. Say what you will about the teams at the top of the draft this year but the Knicks and Lakers don't have enough other assets to give. Even if one of them gets #1. And Cousins may not even want to go there. The Sixers aren't trading for him, neither are the T-Wolves. The Magic could make a play I guess. But it's not like we don't have a chance. Just cause we don't have a guaranteed lottery pick this year doesn't mean our 3 or 4 future firsts with high lottery potential don't have a lot of value.
Trading Sully, the #16 and the LAC/Minn pick for the #8 pick, doesn't put that much value on Sully.  It is a reasonable proposal but if I'm SVG I'd probably keep the #8 pick.  The overvaluing of Sully comes into play when the proposals are like Sully plus the LAC pick for the Heat #10 pick. 

Why don't you think the Sixers or T-Wolves would trade for Cousins?  They certainly could put interesting offers on the table.

It doesn't put no value on Sully either, which some folks around here are convinced is what he's worth. If I'm Ainge, I'll only do that trade if there is someone I really like at #8 (For me S.Johnson or Cauley-Stein) because #16 and the LAC pick aren't enough to move up that high and Sully would push the needle for SVG. KO could too, maybe even more so than Sully considering his 3pt range, but I'd rather keep him. I think Sully being traded straight up beings back less value than if added to a trade. If OKC loses Kanter they may consider Sully/KO, Picks for Adams, which would be a good deal for everyone. I think we could get a mid-level future first for him by himself, but I think we're moving away from those kinds of deals. Adding him to a package of assets is the best play with him.

And with Cousins, for one I don't think he signs off on going to either of those teams. There is a very good chance PHI ends up being a mirror image of the current Kings. A lot of high picks and nothing to show for it besides the best player they've drafted forcing a trade. Hinkie could put together a nice package, sure but I don't think he thinks he has the foundational stars yet to make a win now move like that. Let's be honest, even if you trade them a PHI 1st, the LAL 1st and a few other picks they're gonna want at least one of the young guys (Noel or Embiid) and after you trade for Cousins what's left? A team of d-leaguers? Maybe if Cousins doesn't move till next year, but trading for him now means the end of the Phili experiment, no more tanking for high draft picks and a team berift of talent. The Wolves won't either because unless they're including Wiggins and their 1st this year, SAC won't even pick up the phone.

Boston is interesting for him because they have a very stable organization, a universally well regarded coach, a team on the rise that made the playoffs without him yet don't have a superstar player. They have future assets coming out of their gills and even if we traded for him we'd still have a few. Plus, these guys all talk to each other. And these Cs have caught the attention of a lot of players around the league. Our guys are like a college team, they've bought into their coach 100% and just love playing for him and each other. They're having so much fun and like 7 or 8 guys on our team are playing the best basketball they've ever played. Other players see this too, and other guys around the league could certainly wanna join in on that.

Plus, everyone's talking about teams at the top of the lottery this year, but if the Knicks and Lakers are the only serious players for him like people keep saying, what besides that pick do they have to give? If you trade Cousins you're gonna suck anyway, you can get something for Rudy Gay maybe but your gonna be in the high lottery regardless. Just getting one #2 overall pick and Jordan Clarkson or Julius Randle might not be as valuable as the 2016 and 18 Brooklyn picks (Both look like lottery picks, almost certainly 2016.), the DAL pick (could be lottery w Rondo/Ellis leaving, Dirk too old), #8 in 2015 (Trade the pistons for), the MIN picks (2 high second-rounders), James Young (High-upside 19 year old) and say Zeller or KO and a future Boston 1st or two? I would rather take our deal. If I trade DMC I'm rebuilding, I want the best package I can get. Our package could give you so much, and some of it with really good potential, I want that. That gives you so many extra ways to get talent to speed up your rebuild. Trading for that one guaranteed high pick might get you Kevin Durant but it's more likely to give you Michael Kidd-Gilchrist.

Re: Maybe Cousins was Danny's goal all along
« Reply #22 on: April 16, 2015, 02:11:15 PM »

Offline number_n9ne

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Re: Maybe Cousins was Danny's goal all along
« Reply #23 on: April 16, 2015, 02:34:28 PM »

Offline footey

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teams don't want a plenthora of mid-to-late picks.  Several teams can outbid us.   I don't think you're moving the needle unless you include Marcus Smart in a trade package.  What else do we have that has theoretical future value?

Smart has a pretty low ceiling, at that.

Re: Maybe Cousins was Danny's goal all along
« Reply #24 on: April 16, 2015, 02:37:52 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Thomas/Cousins beef? This is hysterical  :P

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2013/9/4/4693670/demarcus-cousins-isaiah-thomas-twitter-war

Did you actually read the links you posted? There twitter war looks like they are best friends joking around. I read the first one and it sounds like the media really took and ran with a comment and tried to create a controversy. I would put a lot more stock in two players joking around on twitter as a sign they got along than the other stuff....

Edit: This is in response to the earlier poster that seemed to suggest there was a legitmate rift between Thomas and Cousins (not to Numbern9ne)

Re: Maybe Cousins was Danny's goal all along
« Reply #25 on: April 16, 2015, 02:43:07 PM »

Offline TheFlex

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Nothing is off the table for Cousins. If we want him we could get him, but that means giving up Smart and probably two Brooklyn picks. That's a tough deal to swallow, because in order to compete with a team that has a high lotto pick like LAL we will have to compile assets that still have a lot of potential growth in them. For example, Smart could become an All-Star guard in a few years and both those Brooklyn picks could be lotto. As of now though, Smart is a 20 year old who likely won't finish in the top 5 of ROY voting, and the value of those BKN picks is far more vague than the value of (if they get it) LAL's top 5 pick this year.


If Sacramento didn't already show their true feelings about IT, he and some other pieces could make up for the lack of Smart. Maybe there is a third team that would pay equal value for him? Would Indiana give up its 1st for him, giving them:

George Hill/Isaiah Thomas
????/RJ Hunter
P. George/S. Hill
West/Scola
Hibbert/Mahinmi

and allowing us to send Sacramento:

Olynyk
James Young
Indiana 1st (likely 11)
2016 BKN 1st
2017 better of BOS/BKN 1sts

To me that's an offer Sacramento absolutely considers. I'm not convinced SAC is going to get an offer that includes a top 5 pick. There isn't a team like Cleveland last year that owns a pick even comparable to the #1 in the Wiggins draft and also has the supporting cast ready to hit the ground running with acquired star X. New York can't trade its 1st this year, right?

I'd say of serious candidates we're in the top 5. In this order I'd rank: Chicago, Boston, LAL, Orlando, Charlotte. That ranking considers both assets available and willingness to pay. For example, Charlotte could easily outbid us. But would they relinquish the necessary assets to do so with a far more unstable coaching situation than ours and a supporting cast that consistently underperforms unlike ours?

I'd be scared of Chicago.

Gibson
Mirotic
McDermott
SAC future 1st
CHI future 1st

could top our best offer, but I haven't seen anything to suggest Chicago's interested. And what would that mean for Noah?

Anyways, sorry for rambling, I'm in all-basketball mode today. Long story short we'd need to catch a few breaks like any team would, but Cousins is not out of reach.


Draft: 8 first rounders in next 5 years.

Cap space: $24 mil.

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Re: Maybe Cousins was Danny's goal all along
« Reply #26 on: April 16, 2015, 02:51:14 PM »

Offline Smokeeye123

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teams don't want a plenthora of mid-to-late picks.  Several teams can outbid us.   I don't think you're moving the needle unless you include Marcus Smart in a trade package.  What else do we have that has theoretical future value?

I dont know, I think Brooklyn's pick next year is extremely valuable. I'd be very surprised if it wasnt at least a top 8 pick.

Re: Maybe Cousins was Danny's goal all along
« Reply #27 on: April 16, 2015, 02:58:23 PM »

Offline konkmv

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I like his skillset... i do not want him in celtics uniform.... target love monroe and koufos in f.a.

Re: Maybe Cousins was Danny's goal all along
« Reply #28 on: April 16, 2015, 03:27:25 PM »

Offline number_n9ne

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Thomas/Cousins beef? This is hysterical  :P

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2013/9/4/4693670/demarcus-cousins-isaiah-thomas-twitter-war

Did you actually read the links you posted? There twitter war looks like they are best friends joking around. I read the first one and it sounds like the media really took and ran with a comment and tried to create a controversy. I would put a lot more stock in two players joking around on twitter as a sign they got along than the other stuff....

Edit: This is in response to the earlier poster that seemed to suggest there was a legitmate rift between Thomas and Cousins (not to Numbern9ne)

Thanks for the edit! haha

Re: Maybe Cousins was Danny's goal all along
« Reply #29 on: April 16, 2015, 03:54:53 PM »

Offline JHTruth

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teams don't want a plenthora of mid-to-late picks.  Several teams can outbid us.   I don't think you're moving the needle unless you include Marcus Smart in a trade package.  What else do we have that has theoretical future value?

I dont know, I think Brooklyn's pick next year is extremely valuable. I'd be very surprised if it wasnt at least a top 8 pick.

But completely unknown. They could be a borderline playoff team. The pick placement would have to be much more clear to have real value