Author Topic: Report: Celtics turned down multiple offers for Avery Bradley  (Read 12990 times)

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Re: Report: Celtics turned down multiple offers for Avery Bradley
« Reply #30 on: April 01, 2015, 01:56:01 PM »

Online Donoghus

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Just a thought, other than shooting what did Ray Allen do that was better than Avery? My point is a lot of people on here were very very content with Ray Allen, but to be honest, I think Avery is a better all around player now than Ray Allen was 08-11.

Do you consider "creating your own shot" part of shooting or a different attribute?


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Re: Report: Celtics turned down multiple offers for Avery Bradley
« Reply #31 on: April 01, 2015, 02:03:44 PM »

Offline JohnBoy65

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Just a thought, other than shooting what did Ray Allen do that was better than Avery? My point is a lot of people on here were very very content with Ray Allen, but to be honest, I think Avery is a better all around player now than Ray Allen was 08-11.

Do you consider "creating your own shot" part of shooting or a different attribute?

Sure I agree with that. That was a skill Ray had that Avery certainly doesn't possess, but Avery is a better cutter for easy layups than Ray was. So in my mind those things cancel out.

MY point is would you rather have a sharpshooter than can do SOME PG duties that plays no defense, or a a average shooter that plays GREAT defense that can do some PG duties. I think I know what I'll pick.

And for what it's worth I was a BIG Ray Allen fan and  I still like him.

Re: Report: Celtics turned down multiple offers for Avery Bradley
« Reply #32 on: April 01, 2015, 02:05:14 PM »

Offline Joe Green

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Just a thought, other than shooting what did Ray Allen do that was better than Avery? My point is a lot of people on here were very very content with Ray Allen, but to be honest, I think Avery is a better all around player now than Ray Allen was 08-11.

I hope you are joking.

Ray allen was 6"5 and a great athlete. He was a career 40% 3pt shooter / 53% 2pt and nearly 90% from the FT line. He was a very good penetration and ad a GREAT handle (remember him breaking Vujecic's ankles in the finals???)

Ray plulled down better than 4 rebs per game, dished out 3 ast and 1 steal and scored better than 20 per game for 10 straight seasons until coming to form the big 3 in Boston.

Ray Allen might be one of the 50 best players of all time and def one of the best 100 and as much as I like AB, he cannot even carry Ray's ballsack....

Re: Report: Celtics turned down multiple offers for Avery Bradley
« Reply #33 on: April 01, 2015, 02:06:44 PM »

Offline JohnBoy65

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Just a thought, other than shooting what did Ray Allen do that was better than Avery? My point is a lot of people on here were very very content with Ray Allen, but to be honest, I think Avery is a better all around player now than Ray Allen was 08-11.

I hope you are joking.

Ray allen was 6"5 and a great athlete. He was a career 40% 3pt shooter / 53% 2pt and nearly 90% from the FT line. He was a very good penetration and ad a GREAT handle (remember him breaking Vujecic's ankles in the finals???)

Ray plulled down better than 4 rebs per game, dished out 3 ast and 1 steal and scored better than 20 per game for 10 straight seasons until coming to form the big 3 in Boston.

Ray Allen might be one of the 50 best players of all time and def one of the best 100 and as much as I like AB, he cannot even carry Ray's ballsack....

I am talking career in Boston.

Re: Report: Celtics turned down multiple offers for Avery Bradley
« Reply #34 on: April 01, 2015, 02:14:34 PM »

Offline Joe Green

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Just a thought, other than shooting what did Ray Allen do that was better than Avery? My point is a lot of people on here were very very content with Ray Allen, but to be honest, I think Avery is a better all around player now than Ray Allen was 08-11.

I hope you are joking.

Ray allen was 6"5 and a great athlete. He was a career 40% 3pt shooter / 53% 2pt and nearly 90% from the FT line. He was a very good penetration and ad a GREAT handle (remember him breaking Vujecic's ankles in the finals???)

Ray plulled down better than 4 rebs per game, dished out 3 ast and 1 steal and scored better than 20 per game for 10 straight seasons until coming to form the big 3 in Boston.

Ray Allen might be one of the 50 best players of all time and def one of the best 100 and as much as I like AB, he cannot even carry Ray's ballsack....

I am talking career in Boston.

In his carrer in boston, he was playing some of his best basketball ever. He shot better abour 43% from the 3 point line, better than 90% from the FT (he was 95% the first year) and was part of a historically great defense, not to mention winning a ring + making it to game 7 in the finals...

Just for context - he scored 26 PPG pull 4.5 reb and 4 assist the year before coming to Boston and has his stats artificially deflated by sharing the ball with of of the best ever...

RAY WAS AMAZING !!! The year after he left, at age 36 he was a key contributer to Miami's title (he basically saved them from elimination) and killed the inner child in me in the process...

Comparing AB to Ray Allen is like comparing Sully to Moses Malone who only pulled down boards and scored inside....
If he was not sharing

Re: Report: Celtics turned down multiple offers for Avery Bradley
« Reply #35 on: April 01, 2015, 04:25:10 PM »

Offline BDeCosta26

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I liked the idea of dumping Bradley's contract and getting a 1st.  He's not that good and the money can probably be better spent on the free agent market.  But once we committed money to Thomas that cut into our cap space, it kinda put a damper on my hope of luring a couple max contract players here through free agency.  If we ever land a star here it's going to have to be through a trade package.

Ainge isn't gonna resign all our expiring guys. We'll have room for a max free agent if one is willing to sign here. Possibly even two is he's willing to dump the two PHI 2nds or maybe the DAL 1st to get rod of Wallace's deal a year early. He would of we really had two max-level guys wanting to play here .

Bradley's only 23, he's on a fair-value and soon to be good-value contract. He's a 40% 3 point shooter who plays top-tier defense and by all accounts is a good guy to have around your franchise. The kinda deals Danny left on the table for him this year will be there again. No reason to just dump him off for mediocre return. Cap room is over-valued in my opinion.

Avery is a 36% 3pt shooter which is good but not great.

His advanced metrics suck since he doesn't penetrate. Doesn't get to the FT line. Doesn't rebound and is one of the worst passing SG in the NBA.

He is also undersized, and gets bullied by opposing SG who have 2"5" height and 20-40 lbs weight advantage on him. He is a bench player on a good team - and should not even start for our team. I am not hating on the guy - but he is a SG stuck in a PG body and that is a big problem in the NBA.....

He shot 40% last season, and has shot at 40% since the Rondo/Green trades (Feel free to correct that, but he was last I checked a few games ago). His slightly lower yearly numbers probably have to do with increased shots, but I think he's a 40% shooter from 3 going forward.

Advanced Metrics aren't everything, and they certainly don't acknowledge defense very well. He's not a horrible rebounder, or a horrible ball handler. He's simply mediocre but getting better, and maybe a below average passer but he moves very well without the ball. Very good cutter, and he's been generating easy lay-ups that way lately. Which is a great sign for someone who isn't very good taking it to the rack.

I agree he's undersized, but I'm not sure how much that really matters. He hardly ever guards opposing SG's, especially if they're way bigger than him. Smart does that. And Bradley creates open shots by moving without the ball, which negates his larger defenders advantage. Of course he should start on our team, and he would start on some very good teams as well. Replace Waiters with Bradley on OKC and they're right back in the mix. I understand his faults, but AB has top-tier defensive skills and a very reliable jump shot. He's been our most consistent player this year.

I don't get why anyone would say "Wow we shoulda taken those offers". We Drafted AB 19th overall. Getting a guy of his caliber at that spot is a really good pick. Why would we trade him for a pick even later than that and some cap room when we already have that? Getting mid-level FA's creeping up on the wrong side of 30 is the last thing we should do.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2015, 04:54:53 PM by BDeCosta26 »

Re: Report: Celtics turned down multiple offers for Avery Bradley
« Reply #36 on: April 01, 2015, 04:29:56 PM »

Offline hpantazo

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was this thread an early April Fool's joke?

Re: Report: Celtics turned down multiple offers for Avery Bradley
« Reply #37 on: April 01, 2015, 05:24:28 PM »

Offline droopdog7

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Just a thought, other than shooting what did Ray Allen do that was better than Avery? My point is a lot of people on here were very very content with Ray Allen, but to be honest, I think Avery is a better all around player now than Ray Allen was 08-11.
Oh come on now.  Ray Allen is a HOF player.  One of the greatest shooters ever (yeah,aside from shooting) and an underrated scorer.  He was the third best player (and 1b best scorer) on a great, championship winning team. 

I mean, I appreciate Avery as indicted my previous post but he ain't (and never will be) Ray Allen.

Re: Report: Celtics turned down multiple offers for Avery Bradley
« Reply #38 on: April 01, 2015, 05:40:04 PM »

Offline kraidstar

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Just a thought, other than shooting what did Ray Allen do that was better than Avery? My point is a lot of people on here were very very content with Ray Allen, but to be honest, I think Avery is a better all around player now than Ray Allen was 08-11.

I hope you are joking.

Ray allen was 6"5 and a great athlete. He was a career 40% 3pt shooter / 53% 2pt and nearly 90% from the FT line. He was a very good penetration and ad a GREAT handle (remember him breaking Vujecic's ankles in the finals???)

Ray plulled down better than 4 rebs per game, dished out 3 ast and 1 steal and scored better than 20 per game for 10 straight seasons until coming to form the big 3 in Boston.

Ray Allen might be one of the 50 best players of all time and def one of the best 100 and as much as I like AB, he cannot even carry Ray's ballsack....

I am talking career in Boston.

In his carrer in boston, he was playing some of his best basketball ever. He shot better abour 43% from the 3 point line, better than 90% from the FT (he was 95% the first year) and was part of a historically great defense, not to mention winning a ring + making it to game 7 in the finals...

Just for context - he scored 26 PPG pull 4.5 reb and 4 assist the year before coming to Boston and has his stats artificially deflated by sharing the ball with of of the best ever...

RAY WAS AMAZING !!! The year after he left, at age 36 he was a key contributer to Miami's title (he basically saved them from elimination) and killed the inner child in me in the process...

Comparing AB to Ray Allen is like comparing Sully to Moses Malone who only pulled down boards and scored inside....
If he was not sharing

i seem to remember the c's having a .400 record with ray as a starter in his last year here. but once doc put AB in the lineup the c's started surging and almost made the finals (and probably would have, had bradley not gotten hurt).

nobody is saying AB is better than prime ray allen. ray was elite in seattle and milwaukee. but AB's a better player than late career ray allen, maybe 2011 onward. ray was pretty much a one-trick pony his last few years, and couldn't really impose his will on games anymore due to his lack of athleticism and energy. his defense last year in the finals was one of the primary reasons the heat were thrashed by the spurs.

Re: Report: Celtics turned down multiple offers for Avery Bradley
« Reply #39 on: April 01, 2015, 06:06:57 PM »

Offline hpantazo

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Just a thought, other than shooting what did Ray Allen do that was better than Avery? My point is a lot of people on here were very very content with Ray Allen, but to be honest, I think Avery is a better all around player now than Ray Allen was 08-11.
Oh come on now.  Ray Allen is a HOF player.  One of the greatest shooters ever (yeah,aside from shooting) and an underrated scorer.  He was the third best player (and 1b best scorer) on a great, championship winning team. 

I mean, I appreciate Avery as indicted my previous post but he ain't (and never will be) Ray Allen.

Yeah, I mean for starters, Ray Allen was able to dribble and pass the ball without looking like a youth league player who just started handling a basketball a few months ago.

Re: Report: Celtics turned down multiple offers for Avery Bradley
« Reply #40 on: April 01, 2015, 06:19:40 PM »

Offline mctyson

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I liked the idea of dumping Bradley's contract and getting a 1st.  He's not that good and the money can probably be better spent on the free agent market.  But once we committed money to Thomas that cut into our cap space, it kinda put a damper on my hope of luring a couple max contract players here through free agency.  If we ever land a star here it's going to have to be through a trade package.

Ainge isn't gonna resign all our expiring guys. We'll have room for a max free agent if one is willing to sign here. Possibly even two is he's willing to dump the two PHI 2nds or maybe the DAL 1st to get rod of Wallace's deal a year early. He would of we really had two max-level guys wanting to play here .

Bradley's only 23, he's on a fair-value and soon to be good-value contract. He's a 40% 3 point shooter who plays top-tier defense and by all accounts is a good guy to have around your franchise. The kinda deals Danny left on the table for him this year will be there again. No reason to just dump him off for mediocre return. Cap room is over-valued in my opinion.

Avery is a 36% 3pt shooter which is good but not great.

His advanced metrics suck since he doesn't penetrate. Doesn't get to the FT line. Doesn't rebound and is one of the worst passing SG in the NBA.

He is also undersized, and gets bullied by opposing SG who have 2"5" height and 20-40 lbs weight advantage on him. He is a bench player on a good team - and should not even start for our team. I am not hating on the guy - but he is a SG stuck in a PG body and that is a big problem in the NBA.....

and yet, Doc started him over Ray Allen on a good team with Hall of Famers.

Re: Report: Celtics turned down multiple offers for Avery Bradley
« Reply #41 on: April 01, 2015, 06:20:49 PM »

Offline hpantazo

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I liked the idea of dumping Bradley's contract and getting a 1st.  He's not that good and the money can probably be better spent on the free agent market.  But once we committed money to Thomas that cut into our cap space, it kinda put a damper on my hope of luring a couple max contract players here through free agency.  If we ever land a star here it's going to have to be through a trade package.

Ainge isn't gonna resign all our expiring guys. We'll have room for a max free agent if one is willing to sign here. Possibly even two is he's willing to dump the two PHI 2nds or maybe the DAL 1st to get rod of Wallace's deal a year early. He would of we really had two max-level guys wanting to play here .

Bradley's only 23, he's on a fair-value and soon to be good-value contract. He's a 40% 3 point shooter who plays top-tier defense and by all accounts is a good guy to have around your franchise. The kinda deals Danny left on the table for him this year will be there again. No reason to just dump him off for mediocre return. Cap room is over-valued in my opinion.

Avery is a 36% 3pt shooter which is good but not great.

His advanced metrics suck since he doesn't penetrate. Doesn't get to the FT line. Doesn't rebound and is one of the worst passing SG in the NBA.

He is also undersized, and gets bullied by opposing SG who have 2"5" height and 20-40 lbs weight advantage on him. He is a bench player on a good team - and should not even start for our team. I am not hating on the guy - but he is a SG stuck in a PG body and that is a big problem in the NBA.....

and yet, Doc started him over Ray Allen on a good team with Hall of Famers.

Which was the beginning of the end for the big three. Doc made a lot of dumb decisions as coach of the celtics.

Re: Report: Celtics turned down multiple offers for Avery Bradley
« Reply #42 on: April 01, 2015, 06:33:54 PM »

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I am liking the idea that Danny will have the option to package the C's 1st round pick (which I hope is #9) with an established player and move up in the draft.  That is, of course, if there is someone in the 4-7 range that Danny has a particular interest in.  He'll have AB, IT, MS, TZ, KO, JS, ET or JY to use in the package.  I think there may be a team that would gladly take the #9 and the best fit of our young veterans and move down a few slots.  Avery could be very appealing to the right team.  The C's  need top tier talent.

Re: Report: Celtics turned down multiple offers for Avery Bradley
« Reply #43 on: April 01, 2015, 06:35:55 PM »

Offline Eja117

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I liked the idea of dumping Bradley's contract and getting a 1st.  He's not that good and the money can probably be better spent on the free agent market.  But once we committed money to Thomas that cut into our cap space, it kinda put a damper on my hope of luring a couple max contract players here through free agency.  If we ever land a star here it's going to have to be through a trade package.

Ainge isn't gonna resign all our expiring guys. We'll have room for a max free agent if one is willing to sign here. Possibly even two is he's willing to dump the two PHI 2nds or maybe the DAL 1st to get rod of Wallace's deal a year early. He would of we really had two max-level guys wanting to play here .

Bradley's only 23, he's on a fair-value and soon to be good-value contract. He's a 40% 3 point shooter who plays top-tier defense and by all accounts is a good guy to have around your franchise. The kinda deals Danny left on the table for him this year will be there again. No reason to just dump him off for mediocre return. Cap room is over-valued in my opinion.

Avery is a 36% 3pt shooter which is good but not great.

His advanced metrics suck since he doesn't penetrate. Doesn't get to the FT line. Doesn't rebound and is one of the worst passing SG in the NBA.

He is also undersized, and gets bullied by opposing SG who have 2"5" height and 20-40 lbs weight advantage on him. He is a bench player on a good team - and should not even start for our team. I am not hating on the guy - but he is a SG stuck in a PG body and that is a big problem in the NBA.....

and yet, Doc started him over Ray Allen on a good team with Hall of Famers.

Which was the beginning of the end for the big three. Doc made a lot of dumb decisions as coach of the celtics.
Are you sure it wasn't when Ray Allen stopped playing defense?

Re: Report: Celtics turned down multiple offers for Avery Bradley
« Reply #44 on: April 01, 2015, 07:18:35 PM »

Offline hpantazo

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I liked the idea of dumping Bradley's contract and getting a 1st.  He's not that good and the money can probably be better spent on the free agent market.  But once we committed money to Thomas that cut into our cap space, it kinda put a damper on my hope of luring a couple max contract players here through free agency.  If we ever land a star here it's going to have to be through a trade package.

Ainge isn't gonna resign all our expiring guys. We'll have room for a max free agent if one is willing to sign here. Possibly even two is he's willing to dump the two PHI 2nds or maybe the DAL 1st to get rod of Wallace's deal a year early. He would of we really had two max-level guys wanting to play here .

Bradley's only 23, he's on a fair-value and soon to be good-value contract. He's a 40% 3 point shooter who plays top-tier defense and by all accounts is a good guy to have around your franchise. The kinda deals Danny left on the table for him this year will be there again. No reason to just dump him off for mediocre return. Cap room is over-valued in my opinion.

Avery is a 36% 3pt shooter which is good but not great.

His advanced metrics suck since he doesn't penetrate. Doesn't get to the FT line. Doesn't rebound and is one of the worst passing SG in the NBA.

He is also undersized, and gets bullied by opposing SG who have 2"5" height and 20-40 lbs weight advantage on him. He is a bench player on a good team - and should not even start for our team. I am not hating on the guy - but he is a SG stuck in a PG body and that is a big problem in the NBA.....

and yet, Doc started him over Ray Allen on a good team with Hall of Famers.

Which was the beginning of the end for the big three. Doc made a lot of dumb decisions as coach of the celtics.
Are you sure it wasn't when Ray Allen stopped playing defense?

As opposed to how Rondo and Bradley both stopped playing defense?