The love affair with Philadelphia

[boscel33]

There are people who are always enamored with what I call the "allure of potential". Injuries, skill limitations, etc.... aren't seen in these guys since they haven't step foot on an NBA court.  A guy like that gets some people wrapped up in "what could be" rather than "what they are or might pan out to be".  Essentially, the sky is the limit with these guys. 

You see it on here with the draft too.  You'd think every draft contained the next Jordan, Olajuwon, & Magic by the way some people discuss 

IMO, people are too wrapped up in the "sky's the limit" aspect of Philly if Embiid, Noel, & Saric all pan out plus the what-if of getting the top overall pick and using it on someone like Okafor who certainly projects as a top notch center.  People don't necessary look at other possibilities such as if one or more of these guys don't actually pan out/injury factor which could very well happen.  There are also people who insist that you need to bottom out to get good again in the NBA.

I'm actually one of those "people" that are allured by prospects.  I'm tired of watching my favorite teams trade away their young players to get an established vet, then watch that you player develop into a star. 

There are people out there, ironically another Philly team, who want to give up some of our top prospects to get Hammels.  I'd rather keep out prospects and see what happens in a year or two.  If the scouts have done their jobs, then maybe Owens becomes a legit #1 and we still have out prospects.

Ironically, I was in the keep Sully camp rather than trade him in the Love deal.  Love is a 20/10 guy and I thought, with the progress Sully had made, he could be the same.  Therefore, my thought process was, develop your own 20/10 guy and keep the other assets.  The jury is still out on Sully, so we'll have to see.

[GC003332]

Potentially Philly has a loaded roster , question in this day and age , how many 1st , 2nd year pros are going to be happy to not seeing their true potential reached and sacrifice what in their minds is their true worth as a player, ie 6th of the year James Harden - Thunder, Full time starter all the shots he wants - Houston.
Noel
Embid
Top 5 pick this year
Saric , when he comes over.
Potential Lakers 6th pick this year or top 3 pick protected pick next year.

It is a great position to be in in theory, but the phrase too many chefs in the kitchen or there is only one basketball come to mind.

Is Philly going to pay these guys max contracts one after the other year after year?
Only takes one rotten apple to ruin the cart.

Gavin

[RAAAAAAAANDY]

I don't love philly roster or any single player yet by any stretch. Some of the moves they have made are pretty ugly as well. But I admire their guts to go full tank mode. I wouldn't want to C's to do it that way only because  it is too much risk IMO. You may have to suck 5 years before you are good. By then the first talent crop you drafted are already FAs and may walk cause they hate all the sucking so long. Then again if they hit like OKC and pay their players they are golden. I say good luck to them and hope it's a epic Atlantic division with a Good Knicks, 76ers, and C's. (NOT Nets)

What moves have they made that you think are ugly?  They are not just tanking to get better.  They have traded for several good 1st round picks and a bunch of 2nd rounders.  They have a lot of cap space available.  Their first talent crop consists of Noel (2nd year) and Saric (still in Europe so not under contract yet).  Players in their 1st contract become restricted free agents.  The only way they can just walk away is if they give up a lot of money by taking their qualifying offer.  Monroe did it this year but it doesn't happen very often.

I don't think my opinion would matter to you as I can tell you are all in with Philly but here it is. What I find ugly is waiving numerous NBA players though just bench quality is bad business. Taking on salary and cap hits in added years in some of the waivers for low 1st doesn't help as low 1st usually just net you bench players. 2nd round picks hardly ever make past 4 years in the NBA so those are probably garbage. I like the higher picks like the Laker one "potentially" but when you give up a player with talent and potential to get it it's just going in circles. Even when they moved Young they didn't get much just moved him to be a worse team, no good compensation for a player that was producing at okay $. KJ looked like a draft steal but he could have won them a few games by himself so he got traded, smh. The things I like that Philly has done is the drafting and the "guts" to put a DL team out every night to have a horrible record guaranteeing a top 5 pick. The waiver scrubs that philly fans want to call players are a not even worth talking about either. Hink isn't a genius he just has guts. Being as bad a as possible isn't hard. Getting low picks for NBA players isn't hard. Having cap space comes from not having any one on the team worth paying. Had Hink been scoring better deals I'd be impressed but right now his job is easy.

They got a mid 1st round pick for Thad Young who was a pending FA if he opted out(was going to happen). That pick could be anywhere between 11-16. For a slightly above average PF who can't really defend or rebound the position that well. Thad Young's trade value after half a season? The corpse of Kevin Garnett returning for half a season of feel good reunion videos in Minny.

KJ got traded because he is a pending RFA, is probably going to get overpaid, does nothing offensively and he got back a guy picked early in the 2nd + an early 2nd round pick. Hinkie essentially turned an early 2nd round pick for (2) early 2nd round picks...

2nd round picks are not garbage, just stop.

Taking on salary cap for a low first doesn't help? How? It's a first round pick, good players tend to be available late. The more chances you have to hit on one of those lotto tickets the better. If nothing else it is ammo to trade up.

Ish Smith, a 5 year journeyman who has played for like 8 teams has outperformed MCW this year. The fact that we got a probable top 10 pick for a guy who fits that statement is absurdly good value.

And you're completely ignoring that he essentially turned Jrue Holiday into 3 first round picks.

[celticsclay]

I don't love philly roster or any single player yet by any stretch. Some of the moves they have made are pretty ugly as well. But I admire their guts to go full tank mode. I wouldn't want to C's to do it that way only because  it is too much risk IMO. You may have to suck 5 years before you are good. By then the first talent crop you drafted are already FAs and may walk cause they hate all the sucking so long. Then again if they hit like OKC and pay their players they are golden. I say good luck to them and hope it's a epic Atlantic division with a Good Knicks, 76ers, and C's. (NOT Nets)

What moves have they made that you think are ugly?  They are not just tanking to get better.  They have traded for several good 1st round picks and a bunch of 2nd rounders.  They have a lot of cap space available.  Their first talent crop consists of Noel (2nd year) and Saric (still in Europe so not under contract yet).  Players in their 1st contract become restricted free agents.  The only way they can just walk away is if they give up a lot of money by taking their qualifying offer.  Monroe did it this year but it doesn't happen very often.

I don't think my opinion would matter to you as I can tell you are all in with Philly but here it is. What I find ugly is waiving numerous NBA players though just bench quality is bad business. Taking on salary and cap hits in added years in some of the waivers for low 1st doesn't help as low 1st usually just net you bench players. 2nd round picks hardly ever make past 4 years in the NBA so those are probably garbage. I like the higher picks like the Laker one "potentially" but when you give up a player with talent and potential to get it it's just going in circles. Even when they moved Young they didn't get much just moved him to be a worse team, no good compensation for a player that was producing at okay $. KJ looked like a draft steal but he could have won them a few games by himself so he got traded, smh. The things I like that Philly has done is the drafting and the "guts" to put a DL team out every night to have a horrible record guaranteeing a top 5 pick. The waiver scrubs that philly fans want to call players are a not even worth talking about either. Hink isn't a genius he just has guts. Being as bad a as possible isn't hard. Getting low picks for NBA players isn't hard. Having cap space comes from not having any one on the team worth paying. Had Hink been scoring better deals I'd be impressed but right now his job is easy.

They got a mid 1st round pick for Thad Young who was a pending FA if he opted out(was going to happen). That pick could be anywhere between 11-16. For a slightly above average PF who can't really defend or rebound the position that well. Thad Young's trade value after half a season? The corpse of Kevin Garnett returning for half a season of feel good reunion videos in Minny.

KJ got traded because he is a pending RFA, is probably going to get overpaid, does nothing offensively and he got back a guy picked early in the 2nd + an early 2nd round pick. Hinkie essentially turned an early 2nd round pick for (2) early 2nd round picks...

2nd round picks are not garbage, just stop.

Taking on salary cap for a low first doesn't help? How? It's a first round pick, good players tend to be available late. The more chances you have to hit on one of those lotto tickets the better. If nothing else it is ammo to trade up.

Ish Smith, a 5 year journeyman who has played for like 8 teams has outperformed MCW this year. The fact that we got a probable top 10 pick for a guy who fits that statement is absurdly good value.

And you're completely ignoring that he essentially turned Jrue Holiday into 3 first round picks.

What was his worst move?

[Rondo9]

I'm super jealous of philly fans. It's rebuilding done the right way.  Hard not to be envious of that teams potential.  Should be a legit playoff team in a couple years.

Should be ?

They 'should be' better than the Celtics THIS year.  Instead, the rebuilding Celtics have handed them double digit loss after double digit loss.

You're never guaranteed anything tanking to rebuild.  Just look at the 76er's.  They should already be a legit playoff contender and instead they're far from it.

This Couldn't be further from the truth.
why should they be expected to be better than us? Their rebuild has essentially been 18 months and they've managed to haul two elite young prospect big men.
They didn't even 'tank' for Noel,  they just sucked and made a good trade for Jrue Holiday.

What exactly will the Celtics have after this season? A few mid first round picks and no elite prospects other than Marcus Smart. Oh yay we'll make the playoffs and then what? Bass will leave, we'll try and trade Turner For a few 2nd round picks and perhaps James Young will become a rotation player. Whooooo!
we are far closer to no man's land than you think.

You're never guaranteed anything in ANY kind of rebuild.

The blind hate for Philly is so, so dumb and like LarBrd33,  I'm VERY jealous of their roster.
If only we had pieces like that with our coach.
Without free agents we are nothing.

I personally think the blind love for Philly is just as dumb. Embiid has a high chance of being Greg Oden, Dario Saric is an unknown and so is this year's draft pick. The entire roster is not as good as Boston (probably just as worse.) What's wrong with Boston's players? Besides the fact they don't have a Nerlens Noel?

[RAAAAAAAANDY]

I don't love philly roster or any single player yet by any stretch. Some of the moves they have made are pretty ugly as well. But I admire their guts to go full tank mode. I wouldn't want to C's to do it that way only because  it is too much risk IMO. You may have to suck 5 years before you are good. By then the first talent crop you drafted are already FAs and may walk cause they hate all the sucking so long. Then again if they hit like OKC and pay their players they are golden. I say good luck to them and hope it's a epic Atlantic division with a Good Knicks, 76ers, and C's. (NOT Nets)

What moves have they made that you think are ugly?  They are not just tanking to get better.  They have traded for several good 1st round picks and a bunch of 2nd rounders.  They have a lot of cap space available.  Their first talent crop consists of Noel (2nd year) and Saric (still in Europe so not under contract yet).  Players in their 1st contract become restricted free agents.  The only way they can just walk away is if they give up a lot of money by taking their qualifying offer.  Monroe did it this year but it doesn't happen very often.

I don't think my opinion would matter to you as I can tell you are all in with Philly but here it is. What I find ugly is waiving numerous NBA players though just bench quality is bad business. Taking on salary and cap hits in added years in some of the waivers for low 1st doesn't help as low 1st usually just net you bench players. 2nd round picks hardly ever make past 4 years in the NBA so those are probably garbage. I like the higher picks like the Laker one "potentially" but when you give up a player with talent and potential to get it it's just going in circles. Even when they moved Young they didn't get much just moved him to be a worse team, no good compensation for a player that was producing at okay $. KJ looked like a draft steal but he could have won them a few games by himself so he got traded, smh. The things I like that Philly has done is the drafting and the "guts" to put a DL team out every night to have a horrible record guaranteeing a top 5 pick. The waiver scrubs that philly fans want to call players are a not even worth talking about either. Hink isn't a genius he just has guts. Being as bad a as possible isn't hard. Getting low picks for NBA players isn't hard. Having cap space comes from not having any one on the team worth paying. Had Hink been scoring better deals I'd be impressed but right now his job is easy.

They got a mid 1st round pick for Thad Young who was a pending FA if he opted out(was going to happen). That pick could be anywhere between 11-16. For a slightly above average PF who can't really defend or rebound the position that well. Thad Young's trade value after half a season? The corpse of Kevin Garnett returning for half a season of feel good reunion videos in Minny.

KJ got traded because he is a pending RFA, is probably going to get overpaid, does nothing offensively and he got back a guy picked early in the 2nd + an early 2nd round pick. Hinkie essentially turned an early 2nd round pick for (2) early 2nd round picks...

2nd round picks are not garbage, just stop.

Taking on salary cap for a low first doesn't help? How? It's a first round pick, good players tend to be available late. The more chances you have to hit on one of those lotto tickets the better. If nothing else it is ammo to trade up.

Ish Smith, a 5 year journeyman who has played for like 8 teams has outperformed MCW this year. The fact that we got a probable top 10 pick for a guy who fits that statement is absurdly good value.

And you're completely ignoring that he essentially turned Jrue Holiday into 3 first round picks.

What was his worst move?

Probably drafting MCW or not being able to sign KJ McDaniels to more than the 2nd round tender(hard to say what KJ's demand was and if it was reasonable).

He, in my opinion, should have hopped on a few salary dumps in the summer too. I think most of his misses are acts of omission rather than commission thus far.

He's going to make bad moves and miss picks like all GMs. So far though he's turned a pretty depleted roster into a surprising number of assets. I'd say his sell off is up there with Ainge's retooling coming off the big 3 + Rondo era.

[Csfan1984]

I don't love philly roster or any single player yet by any stretch. Some of the moves they have made are pretty ugly as well. But I admire their guts to go full tank mode. I wouldn't want to C's to do it that way only because  it is too much risk IMO. You may have to suck 5 years before you are good. By then the first talent crop you drafted are already FAs and may walk cause they hate all the sucking so long. Then again if they hit like OKC and pay their players they are golden. I say good luck to them and hope it's a epic Atlantic division with a Good Knicks, 76ers, and C's. (NOT Nets)

What moves have they made that you think are ugly?  They are not just tanking to get better.  They have traded for several good 1st round picks and a bunch of 2nd rounders.  They have a lot of cap space available.  Their first talent crop consists of Noel (2nd year) and Saric (still in Europe so not under contract yet).  Players in their 1st contract become restricted free agents.  The only way they can just walk away is if they give up a lot of money by taking their qualifying offer.  Monroe did it this year but it doesn't happen very often.

I don't think my opinion would matter to you as I can tell you are all in with Philly but here it is. What I find ugly is waiving numerous NBA players though just bench quality is bad business. Taking on salary and cap hits in added years in some of the waivers for low 1st doesn't help as low 1st usually just net you bench players. 2nd round picks hardly ever make past 4 years in the NBA so those are probably garbage. I like the higher picks like the Laker one "potentially" but when you give up a player with talent and potential to get it it's just going in circles. Even when they moved Young they didn't get much just moved him to be a worse team, no good compensation for a player that was producing at okay $. KJ looked like a draft steal but he could have won them a few games by himself so he got traded, smh. The things I like that Philly has done is the drafting and the "guts" to put a DL team out every night to have a horrible record guaranteeing a top 5 pick. The waiver scrubs that philly fans want to call players are a not even worth talking about either. Hink isn't a genius he just has guts. Being as bad a as possible isn't hard. Getting low picks for NBA players isn't hard. Having cap space comes from not having any one on the team worth paying. Had Hink been scoring better deals I'd be impressed but right now his job is easy.

They got a mid 1st round pick for Thad Young who was a pending FA if he opted out(was going to happen). That pick could be anywhere between 11-16. For a slightly above average PF who can't really defend or rebound the position that well. Thad Young's trade value after half a season? The corpse of Kevin Garnett returning for half a season of feel good reunion videos in Minny.

KJ got traded because he is a pending RFA, is probably going to get overpaid, does nothing offensively and he got back a guy picked early in the 2nd + an early 2nd round pick. Hinkie essentially turned an early 2nd round pick for (2) early 2nd round picks...

2nd round picks are not garbage, just stop.

Taking on salary cap for a low first doesn't help? How? It's a first round pick, good players tend to be available late. The more chances you have to hit on one of those lotto tickets the better. If nothing else it is ammo to trade up.

Ish Smith, a 5 year journeyman who has played for like 8 teams has outperformed MCW this year. The fact that we got a probable top 10 pick for a guy who fits that statement is absurdly good value.

And you're completely ignoring that he essentially turned Jrue Holiday into 3 first round picks.

Those are some very weak excuses. Not wanting to pay guys? Really when you are at the cap min. Also most seconds are garbage unless they are like Philly's own. Oh C's own those. But good try. I like their drafting and guts, nothing else. Get over it Philly fans.

[tazzmaniac]

Potentially Philly has a loaded roster , question in this day and age , how many 1st , 2nd year pros are going to be happy to not seeing their true potential reached and sacrifice what in their minds is their true worth as a player, ie 6th of the year James Harden - Thunder, Full time starter all the shots he wants - Houston.
Noel
Embid
Top 5 pick this year
Saric , when he comes over.
Potential Lakers 6th pick this year or top 3 pick protected pick next year.

It is a great position to be in in theory, but the phrase too many chefs in the kitchen or there is only one basketball come to mind.

Is Philly going to pay these guys max contracts one after the other year after year?
Only takes one rotten apple to ruin the cart.

Gavin

Having too much young talent would be a great problem to have.  If there are insurmountable issues, you can always trade young talent for good value.  However the Sixers young talent might just fit better together than the OKC young talent.     

[RAAAAAAAANDY]

I don't love philly roster or any single player yet by any stretch. Some of the moves they have made are pretty ugly as well. But I admire their guts to go full tank mode. I wouldn't want to C's to do it that way only because  it is too much risk IMO. You may have to suck 5 years before you are good. By then the first talent crop you drafted are already FAs and may walk cause they hate all the sucking so long. Then again if they hit like OKC and pay their players they are golden. I say good luck to them and hope it's a epic Atlantic division with a Good Knicks, 76ers, and C's. (NOT Nets)

What moves have they made that you think are ugly?  They are not just tanking to get better.  They have traded for several good 1st round picks and a bunch of 2nd rounders.  They have a lot of cap space available.  Their first talent crop consists of Noel (2nd year) and Saric (still in Europe so not under contract yet).  Players in their 1st contract become restricted free agents.  The only way they can just walk away is if they give up a lot of money by taking their qualifying offer.  Monroe did it this year but it doesn't happen very often.

I don't think my opinion would matter to you as I can tell you are all in with Philly but here it is. What I find ugly is waiving numerous NBA players though just bench quality is bad business. Taking on salary and cap hits in added years in some of the waivers for low 1st doesn't help as low 1st usually just net you bench players. 2nd round picks hardly ever make past 4 years in the NBA so those are probably garbage. I like the higher picks like the Laker one "potentially" but when you give up a player with talent and potential to get it it's just going in circles. Even when they moved Young they didn't get much just moved him to be a worse team, no good compensation for a player that was producing at okay $. KJ looked like a draft steal but he could have won them a few games by himself so he got traded, smh. The things I like that Philly has done is the drafting and the "guts" to put a DL team out every night to have a horrible record guaranteeing a top 5 pick. The waiver scrubs that philly fans want to call players are a not even worth talking about either. Hink isn't a genius he just has guts. Being as bad a as possible isn't hard. Getting low picks for NBA players isn't hard. Having cap space comes from not having any one on the team worth paying. Had Hink been scoring better deals I'd be impressed but right now his job is easy.

They got a mid 1st round pick for Thad Young who was a pending FA if he opted out(was going to happen). That pick could be anywhere between 11-16. For a slightly above average PF who can't really defend or rebound the position that well. Thad Young's trade value after half a season? The corpse of Kevin Garnett returning for half a season of feel good reunion videos in Minny.

KJ got traded because he is a pending RFA, is probably going to get overpaid, does nothing offensively and he got back a guy picked early in the 2nd + an early 2nd round pick. Hinkie essentially turned an early 2nd round pick for (2) early 2nd round picks...

2nd round picks are not garbage, just stop.

Taking on salary cap for a low first doesn't help? How? It's a first round pick, good players tend to be available late. The more chances you have to hit on one of those lotto tickets the better. If nothing else it is ammo to trade up.

Ish Smith, a 5 year journeyman who has played for like 8 teams has outperformed MCW this year. The fact that we got a probable top 10 pick for a guy who fits that statement is absurdly good value.

And you're completely ignoring that he essentially turned Jrue Holiday into 3 first round picks.

Those are some very weak excuses. Not wanting to pay guys? Really when you are at the cap min. Also most seconds are garbage unless they are like Philly's own. Oh C's own those. But good try. I like their drafting and guts, nothing else. Get over it Philly fans.

Not wanting to overpay average players just because they're already here? Yeah, that's a bad quality for a GM to have. 

Most 2nds don't pan out, hell most 1sts probably don't pan out. Do you think with low odds it is better to have more chances or fewer chances? Think about that one real hard and you just might get it.

Tony Parker, Chandler Parsons, Manu Ginobli, Isaiah Thomas, Draymond Green, Omer Asik, Michael Redd, DeAndre Jordan, Kyle Korver, Goran Dragic. Yup no reason to have 2nd round picks at all. 

[Csfan1984]

I don't love philly roster or any single player yet by any stretch. Some of the moves they have made are pretty ugly as well. But I admire their guts to go full tank mode. I wouldn't want to C's to do it that way only because  it is too much risk IMO. You may have to suck 5 years before you are good. By then the first talent crop you drafted are already FAs and may walk cause they hate all the sucking so long. Then again if they hit like OKC and pay their players they are golden. I say good luck to them and hope it's a epic Atlantic division with a Good Knicks, 76ers, and C's. (NOT Nets)

What moves have they made that you think are ugly?  They are not just tanking to get better.  They have traded for several good 1st round picks and a bunch of 2nd rounders.  They have a lot of cap space available.  Their first talent crop consists of Noel (2nd year) and Saric (still in Europe so not under contract yet).  Players in their 1st contract become restricted free agents.  The only way they can just walk away is if they give up a lot of money by taking their qualifying offer.  Monroe did it this year but it doesn't happen very often.

I don't think my opinion would matter to you as I can tell you are all in with Philly but here it is. What I find ugly is waiving numerous NBA players though just bench quality is bad business. Taking on salary and cap hits in added years in some of the waivers for low 1st doesn't help as low 1st usually just net you bench players. 2nd round picks hardly ever make past 4 years in the NBA so those are probably garbage. I like the higher picks like the Laker one "potentially" but when you give up a player with talent and potential to get it it's just going in circles. Even when they moved Young they didn't get much just moved him to be a worse team, no good compensation for a player that was producing at okay $. KJ looked like a draft steal but he could have won them a few games by himself so he got traded, smh. The things I like that Philly has done is the drafting and the "guts" to put a DL team out every night to have a horrible record guaranteeing a top 5 pick. The waiver scrubs that philly fans want to call players are a not even worth talking about either. Hink isn't a genius he just has guts. Being as bad a as possible isn't hard. Getting low picks for NBA players isn't hard. Having cap space comes from not having any one on the team worth paying. Had Hink been scoring better deals I'd be impressed but right now his job is easy.

They got a mid 1st round pick for Thad Young who was a pending FA if he opted out(was going to happen). That pick could be anywhere between 11-16. For a slightly above average PF who can't really defend or rebound the position that well. Thad Young's trade value after half a season? The corpse of Kevin Garnett returning for half a season of feel good reunion videos in Minny.

KJ got traded because he is a pending RFA, is probably going to get overpaid, does nothing offensively and he got back a guy picked early in the 2nd + an early 2nd round pick. Hinkie essentially turned an early 2nd round pick for (2) early 2nd round picks...

2nd round picks are not garbage, just stop.

Taking on salary cap for a low first doesn't help? How? It's a first round pick, good players tend to be available late. The more chances you have to hit on one of those lotto tickets the better. If nothing else it is ammo to trade up.

Ish Smith, a 5 year journeyman who has played for like 8 teams has outperformed MCW this year. The fact that we got a probable top 10 pick for a guy who fits that statement is absurdly good value.

And you're completely ignoring that he essentially turned Jrue Holiday into 3 first round picks.

Those are some very weak excuses. Not wanting to pay guys? Really when you are at the cap min. Also most seconds are garbage unless they are like Philly's own. Oh C's own those. But good try. I like their drafting and guts, nothing else. Get over it Philly fans.

Not wanting to overpay average players just because they're already here? Yeah, that's a bad quality for a GM to have. 

Most 2nds don't pan out, hell most 1sts probably don't pan out. Do you think with low odds it is better to have more chances or fewer chances? Think about that one real hard and you just might get it.

Tony Parker, Chandler Parsons, Manu Ginobli, Isaiah Thomas, Draymond Green, Omer Asik, Michael Redd, DeAndre Jordan, Kyle Korver, Goran Dragic. Yup no reason to have 2nd round picks at all. 

More than half of those 2nd round guys are not with their original teams lost to FA because GMs  didn't want to pay. Sounds like Hink given recent history so not much value for your GM already.

[tazzmaniac]

I don't love philly roster or any single player yet by any stretch. Some of the moves they have made are pretty ugly as well. But I admire their guts to go full tank mode. I wouldn't want to C's to do it that way only because  it is too much risk IMO. You may have to suck 5 years before you are good. By then the first talent crop you drafted are already FAs and may walk cause they hate all the sucking so long. Then again if they hit like OKC and pay their players they are golden. I say good luck to them and hope it's a epic Atlantic division with a Good Knicks, 76ers, and C's. (NOT Nets)

What moves have they made that you think are ugly?  They are not just tanking to get better.  They have traded for several good 1st round picks and a bunch of 2nd rounders.  They have a lot of cap space available.  Their first talent crop consists of Noel (2nd year) and Saric (still in Europe so not under contract yet).  Players in their 1st contract become restricted free agents.  The only way they can just walk away is if they give up a lot of money by taking their qualifying offer.  Monroe did it this year but it doesn't happen very often.

I don't think my opinion would matter to you as I can tell you are all in with Philly but here it is. What I find ugly is waiving numerous NBA players though just bench quality is bad business. Taking on salary and cap hits in added years in some of the waivers for low 1st doesn't help as low 1st usually just net you bench players. 2nd round picks hardly ever make past 4 years in the NBA so those are probably garbage. I like the higher picks like the Laker one "potentially" but when you give up a player with talent and potential to get it it's just going in circles. Even when they moved Young they didn't get much just moved him to be a worse team, no good compensation for a player that was producing at okay $. KJ looked like a draft steal but he could have won them a few games by himself so he got traded, smh. The things I like that Philly has done is the drafting and the "guts" to put a DL team out every night to have a horrible record guaranteeing a top 5 pick. The waiver scrubs that philly fans want to call players are a not even worth talking about either. Hink isn't a genius he just has guts. Being as bad a as possible isn't hard. Getting low picks for NBA players isn't hard. Having cap space comes from not having any one on the team worth paying. Had Hink been scoring better deals I'd be impressed but right now his job is easy.

They got a mid 1st round pick for Thad Young who was a pending FA if he opted out(was going to happen). That pick could be anywhere between 11-16. For a slightly above average PF who can't really defend or rebound the position that well. Thad Young's trade value after half a season? The corpse of Kevin Garnett returning for half a season of feel good reunion videos in Minny.

KJ got traded because he is a pending RFA, is probably going to get overpaid, does nothing offensively and he got back a guy picked early in the 2nd + an early 2nd round pick. Hinkie essentially turned an early 2nd round pick for (2) early 2nd round picks...

2nd round picks are not garbage, just stop.

Taking on salary cap for a low first doesn't help? How? It's a first round pick, good players tend to be available late. The more chances you have to hit on one of those lotto tickets the better. If nothing else it is ammo to trade up.

Ish Smith, a 5 year journeyman who has played for like 8 teams has outperformed MCW this year. The fact that we got a probable top 10 pick for a guy who fits that statement is absurdly good value.

And you're completely ignoring that he essentially turned Jrue Holiday into 3 first round picks.

Those are some very weak excuses. Not wanting to pay guys? Really when you are at the cap min. Also most seconds are garbage unless they are like Philly's own. Oh C's own those. But good try. I like their drafting and guts, nothing else. Get over it Philly fans.

Those aren't weak excuses.  How is the Young trade any different than the Green trade except for the fact that Hinkie got much better value (mid 1st rounder vs. probable two seconds)?  There are plenty of cheap role players.  How is overpaying for role players and wasting cap space a good thing to do?  How is Hinkie taking on McGee's salary for a 1st significantly different from Ainge taking on Wallace's salary in exchange for an extra 1st?  Why should Hinkie have held on to MCW rather than trade him for the very good Lakers 1st?  Yes, second rounders are often misses.  That's why accumulating a bunch of them cheaply is a good thing to do.  Of the five second rounders Philly has this draft, two are currently at 35 and 37. 

[RAAAAAAAANDY]

I don't love philly roster or any single player yet by any stretch. Some of the moves they have made are pretty ugly as well. But I admire their guts to go full tank mode. I wouldn't want to C's to do it that way only because  it is too much risk IMO. You may have to suck 5 years before you are good. By then the first talent crop you drafted are already FAs and may walk cause they hate all the sucking so long. Then again if they hit like OKC and pay their players they are golden. I say good luck to them and hope it's a epic Atlantic division with a Good Knicks, 76ers, and C's. (NOT Nets)

What moves have they made that you think are ugly?  They are not just tanking to get better.  They have traded for several good 1st round picks and a bunch of 2nd rounders.  They have a lot of cap space available.  Their first talent crop consists of Noel (2nd year) and Saric (still in Europe so not under contract yet).  Players in their 1st contract become restricted free agents.  The only way they can just walk away is if they give up a lot of money by taking their qualifying offer.  Monroe did it this year but it doesn't happen very often.

I don't think my opinion would matter to you as I can tell you are all in with Philly but here it is. What I find ugly is waiving numerous NBA players though just bench quality is bad business. Taking on salary and cap hits in added years in some of the waivers for low 1st doesn't help as low 1st usually just net you bench players. 2nd round picks hardly ever make past 4 years in the NBA so those are probably garbage. I like the higher picks like the Laker one "potentially" but when you give up a player with talent and potential to get it it's just going in circles. Even when they moved Young they didn't get much just moved him to be a worse team, no good compensation for a player that was producing at okay $. KJ looked like a draft steal but he could have won them a few games by himself so he got traded, smh. The things I like that Philly has done is the drafting and the "guts" to put a DL team out every night to have a horrible record guaranteeing a top 5 pick. The waiver scrubs that philly fans want to call players are a not even worth talking about either. Hink isn't a genius he just has guts. Being as bad a as possible isn't hard. Getting low picks for NBA players isn't hard. Having cap space comes from not having any one on the team worth paying. Had Hink been scoring better deals I'd be impressed but right now his job is easy.

They got a mid 1st round pick for Thad Young who was a pending FA if he opted out(was going to happen). That pick could be anywhere between 11-16. For a slightly above average PF who can't really defend or rebound the position that well. Thad Young's trade value after half a season? The corpse of Kevin Garnett returning for half a season of feel good reunion videos in Minny.

KJ got traded because he is a pending RFA, is probably going to get overpaid, does nothing offensively and he got back a guy picked early in the 2nd + an early 2nd round pick. Hinkie essentially turned an early 2nd round pick for (2) early 2nd round picks...

2nd round picks are not garbage, just stop.

Taking on salary cap for a low first doesn't help? How? It's a first round pick, good players tend to be available late. The more chances you have to hit on one of those lotto tickets the better. If nothing else it is ammo to trade up.

Ish Smith, a 5 year journeyman who has played for like 8 teams has outperformed MCW this year. The fact that we got a probable top 10 pick for a guy who fits that statement is absurdly good value.

And you're completely ignoring that he essentially turned Jrue Holiday into 3 first round picks.

Those are some very weak excuses. Not wanting to pay guys? Really when you are at the cap min. Also most seconds are garbage unless they are like Philly's own. Oh C's own those. But good try. I like their drafting and guts, nothing else. Get over it Philly fans.

Not wanting to overpay average players just because they're already here? Yeah, that's a bad quality for a GM to have. 

Most 2nds don't pan out, hell most 1sts probably don't pan out. Do you think with low odds it is better to have more chances or fewer chances? Think about that one real hard and you just might get it.

Tony Parker, Chandler Parsons, Manu Ginobli, Isaiah Thomas, Draymond Green, Omer Asik, Michael Redd, DeAndre Jordan, Kyle Korver, Goran Dragic. Yup no reason to have 2nd round picks at all. 

More than half of those 2nd round guys are not with their original teams lost to FA because GMs  didn't want to pay. Sounds like Hink given recent history so not much value for your GM already.

Name one good player who Hinkie has chosen not to pay when they went FA. Name one.

[Csfan1984]

I don't love philly roster or any single player yet by any stretch. Some of the moves they have made are pretty ugly as well. But I admire their guts to go full tank mode. I wouldn't want to C's to do it that way only because  it is too much risk IMO. You may have to suck 5 years before you are good. By then the first talent crop you drafted are already FAs and may walk cause they hate all the sucking so long. Then again if they hit like OKC and pay their players they are golden. I say good luck to them and hope it's a epic Atlantic division with a Good Knicks, 76ers, and C's. (NOT Nets)

What moves have they made that you think are ugly?  They are not just tanking to get better.  They have traded for several good 1st round picks and a bunch of 2nd rounders.  They have a lot of cap space available.  Their first talent crop consists of Noel (2nd year) and Saric (still in Europe so not under contract yet).  Players in their 1st contract become restricted free agents.  The only way they can just walk away is if they give up a lot of money by taking their qualifying offer.  Monroe did it this year but it doesn't happen very often.

I don't think my opinion would matter to you as I can tell you are all in with Philly but here it is. What I find ugly is waiving numerous NBA players though just bench quality is bad business. Taking on salary and cap hits in added years in some of the waivers for low 1st doesn't help as low 1st usually just net you bench players. 2nd round picks hardly ever make past 4 years in the NBA so those are probably garbage. I like the higher picks like the Laker one "potentially" but when you give up a player with talent and potential to get it it's just going in circles. Even when they moved Young they didn't get much just moved him to be a worse team, no good compensation for a player that was producing at okay $. KJ looked like a draft steal but he could have won them a few games by himself so he got traded, smh. The things I like that Philly has done is the drafting and the "guts" to put a DL team out every night to have a horrible record guaranteeing a top 5 pick. The waiver scrubs that philly fans want to call players are a not even worth talking about either. Hink isn't a genius he just has guts. Being as bad a as possible isn't hard. Getting low picks for NBA players isn't hard. Having cap space comes from not having any one on the team worth paying. Had Hink been scoring better deals I'd be impressed but right now his job is easy.

They got a mid 1st round pick for Thad Young who was a pending FA if he opted out(was going to happen). That pick could be anywhere between 11-16. For a slightly above average PF who can't really defend or rebound the position that well. Thad Young's trade value after half a season? The corpse of Kevin Garnett returning for half a season of feel good reunion videos in Minny.

KJ got traded because he is a pending RFA, is probably going to get overpaid, does nothing offensively and he got back a guy picked early in the 2nd + an early 2nd round pick. Hinkie essentially turned an early 2nd round pick for (2) early 2nd round picks...

2nd round picks are not garbage, just stop.

Taking on salary cap for a low first doesn't help? How? It's a first round pick, good players tend to be available late. The more chances you have to hit on one of those lotto tickets the better. If nothing else it is ammo to trade up.

Ish Smith, a 5 year journeyman who has played for like 8 teams has outperformed MCW this year. The fact that we got a probable top 10 pick for a guy who fits that statement is absurdly good value.

And you're completely ignoring that he essentially turned Jrue Holiday into 3 first round picks.

Those are some very weak excuses. Not wanting to pay guys? Really when you are at the cap min. Also most seconds are garbage unless they are like Philly's own. Oh C's own those. But good try. I like their drafting and guts, nothing else. Get over it Philly fans.

Those aren't weak excuses.  How is the Young trade any different than the Green trade except for the fact that Hinkie got much better value (mid 1st rounder vs. probable two seconds)?  There are plenty of cheap role players.  How is overpaying for role players and wasting cap space a good thing to do?  How is Hinkie taking on McGee's salary for a 1st significantly different from Ainge taking on Wallace's salary in exchange for an extra 1st?  Why should Hinkie have held on to MCW rather than trade him for the very good Lakers 1st?  Yes, second rounders are often misses.  That's why accumulating a bunch of them cheaply is a good thing to do.  Of the five second rounders Philly has this draft, two are currently at 35 and 37.

Age of players and prime years is a huge difference between guys DA traded and guys Hink traded. Hink gave up promising long term players for little to just get worse. DA didn't trade AB or Sully. Do you get it?

[Csfan1984]

I don't love philly roster or any single player yet by any stretch. Some of the moves they have made are pretty ugly as well. But I admire their guts to go full tank mode. I wouldn't want to C's to do it that way only because  it is too much risk IMO. You may have to suck 5 years before you are good. By then the first talent crop you drafted are already FAs and may walk cause they hate all the sucking so long. Then again if they hit like OKC and pay their players they are golden. I say good luck to them and hope it's a epic Atlantic division with a Good Knicks, 76ers, and C's. (NOT Nets)

What moves have they made that you think are ugly?  They are not just tanking to get better.  They have traded for several good 1st round picks and a bunch of 2nd rounders.  They have a lot of cap space available.  Their first talent crop consists of Noel (2nd year) and Saric (still in Europe so not under contract yet).  Players in their 1st contract become restricted free agents.  The only way they can just walk away is if they give up a lot of money by taking their qualifying offer.  Monroe did it this year but it doesn't happen very often.

I don't think my opinion would matter to you as I can tell you are all in with Philly but here it is. What I find ugly is waiving numerous NBA players though just bench quality is bad business. Taking on salary and cap hits in added years in some of the waivers for low 1st doesn't help as low 1st usually just net you bench players. 2nd round picks hardly ever make past 4 years in the NBA so those are probably garbage. I like the higher picks like the Laker one "potentially" but when you give up a player with talent and potential to get it it's just going in circles. Even when they moved Young they didn't get much just moved him to be a worse team, no good compensation for a player that was producing at okay $. KJ looked like a draft steal but he could have won them a few games by himself so he got traded, smh. The things I like that Philly has done is the drafting and the "guts" to put a DL team out every night to have a horrible record guaranteeing a top 5 pick. The waiver scrubs that philly fans want to call players are a not even worth talking about either. Hink isn't a genius he just has guts. Being as bad a as possible isn't hard. Getting low picks for NBA players isn't hard. Having cap space comes from not having any one on the team worth paying. Had Hink been scoring better deals I'd be impressed but right now his job is easy.

They got a mid 1st round pick for Thad Young who was a pending FA if he opted out(was going to happen). That pick could be anywhere between 11-16. For a slightly above average PF who can't really defend or rebound the position that well. Thad Young's trade value after half a season? The corpse of Kevin Garnett returning for half a season of feel good reunion videos in Minny.

KJ got traded because he is a pending RFA, is probably going to get overpaid, does nothing offensively and he got back a guy picked early in the 2nd + an early 2nd round pick. Hinkie essentially turned an early 2nd round pick for (2) early 2nd round picks...

2nd round picks are not garbage, just stop.

Taking on salary cap for a low first doesn't help? How? It's a first round pick, good players tend to be available late. The more chances you have to hit on one of those lotto tickets the better. If nothing else it is ammo to trade up.

Ish Smith, a 5 year journeyman who has played for like 8 teams has outperformed MCW this year. The fact that we got a probable top 10 pick for a guy who fits that statement is absurdly good value.

And you're completely ignoring that he essentially turned Jrue Holiday into 3 first round picks.

Those are some very weak excuses. Not wanting to pay guys? Really when you are at the cap min. Also most seconds are garbage unless they are like Philly's own. Oh C's own those. But good try. I like their drafting and guts, nothing else. Get over it Philly fans.

Not wanting to overpay average players just because they're already here? Yeah, that's a bad quality for a GM to have. 

Most 2nds don't pan out, hell most 1sts probably don't pan out. Do you think with low odds it is better to have more chances or fewer chances? Think about that one real hard and you just might get it.

Tony Parker, Chandler Parsons, Manu Ginobli, Isaiah Thomas, Draymond Green, Omer Asik, Michael Redd, DeAndre Jordan, Kyle Korver, Goran Dragic. Yup no reason to have 2nd round picks at all. 

More than half of those 2nd round guys are not with their original teams lost to FA because GMs  didn't want to pay. Sounds like Hink given recent history so not much value for your GM already.

Name one good player who Hinkie has chosen not to pay when they went FA. Name one.

Read excuses above for dumping the guys that Philly fans just gave.

[mctyson]

I have had an account on this board since pretty close to the beginning but have not really witnessed our fan base have such a collective crush on a fellow team as we seem to have here with the 76ers. Right now we currently have 3 front page topics on Philadelphia and we every couple of weeks (or more frequently) we have a thread on Embiid, Noel and previously, the value of MCW.

I get that the 76er's are doing something that seems fairly unique in terms of tanking by drafting injured players, drafting foreign players and being at the salary floor the last few seasons. That being said this stuff seems a little over the top. Are they a lot of posters second favorite teams? I know that we have a few regular posters that have come over from Philly forums (they have admitted as much in threads), but are there more then a couple? Are the 76ers the second favorite team of a lot of posters? Have they not been good at the same time as for so long that we forget they are a division and historical rival?

I personally think they have some really nice pieces in play with Noels, Embiid and either 1 or 2 upcoming top 5 draft picks. However, there are teams like Minnesota with Dieng, Wiggins, Lavine and an upcoming top 5 pick that appear to have an equally appealing future (not to mention more existing veteran talent). I can't even recall a single thread talking about how great Minnesota's future looks. What about Milwaukee? They have Giannis (board favorite), Jabari Parker, MCW and an interesting piece in Henson. That seems like a really bright future to me too.

Anyone care to explain this Philly phenomenon to me and why they are held in so much higher regard than the other young and potentially up and coming teams? Is it just more philly fans here?

I think there are a lot of people who forget that the Sixers and following the same model that the Clippers did for almost 20 years before they were gift-wrapped Chris Paul.