The love affair with Philadelphia

[Smokeeye123]

Philadelphia will be a top 4 seed in the Eastern conference in 2-3 years. Our hope rests on mediocre over priced free agents and the hope that some kid drafted 15-22 will turn into the next Paul Pierce.

Call me crazy but Id rather be in the 76ers position

[GC003332]

Philadelphia will be a top 4 seed in the Eastern conference in 2-3 years. Our hope rests on mediocre over priced free agents and the hope that some kid drafted 15-22 will turn into the next Paul Pierce.

Call me crazy but Id rather be in the 76ers position

You may well be right about Philly , they have got a lot of young potential talent that could take them places, hopefully Ainge doesn't sign any mediocre free agents, outside of Wallace you could say that no Celtics player has a bad contract really, so Ainge has got that going for him, you don't know how the Mavs and Brooklyn picks will play out next year yet.Plenty of flexibility to package our (non talent - so to speak) and draft picks to acquire better players down the road.
All is not lost

[Moranis]

I don't know why so many people want to make tanking an "all or nothing" plan based on getting the #1 pick. The plan is to get a top 5 pick. You can't plan on any specific pick within that range but you can plan effectively (not a sure thing, but highly likely) to get into that top 5 range.

Mission accomplished for Philly.

It's because of the way Philly is tanking.  Traditionally tanking has been what we've seen in Minnesota.  A lot of injuries make a team worse than it would normally be, supplemented by sitting guys at the end of the year to avoid "unnecessary" wins.  Or what Boston did to try and get Duncan where you have a buffoon coach, but you might have a better than horrible roster like  Antoine Walker, David Wesley, Rick Fox, Eric Williams, Todd Day and Marty Conlon.  And yes, Marty Conlon had a 9 year career in the NBA.

Let's take Boston as example, again.  They won 36 games, tanked to 15 wins to try and get Duncan, then won 33 games the year after that.  Philly won 34 games, then tanked to 19 and then 18 wins.  And given that Philly has given every sign that they don't plan on making any moves to improve by bringing in veteran free agents this coming year, they might struggle to win 30 even if Embiid and this year's pick are as good as they could reasonably be.

People talk about how Boston doesn't have stars or doesn't have guys who could start on a great team.  Outside of Noel, Philly has a bunch of guys who don't belong in the league.  They've stripped themselves bare and relied on TV money from the league to sustain themselves and dumb luck to succeed.

Mike

There really isn't much practical difference between making trades for the future (the Philly way) and just flat out not playing guys. 

Orlando has won 68 games total the last 3 years.  Sacramento hasn't won more than 30 games in a season for the last 7 years and its been 10 years since they had a winning season.  The Lakers have won 27 and 21 games respectively the last two seasons.  Minnesota went from 40 wins to 16 wins in a move very similar to Philly, of course they traded a better player and thus received a better player in the process.

This notion that Philly is unique is just silly.  And I don't for a second buy this nonsense that they took Noel and Embiid because they were injured, it seems pretty obvious they were BY FAR the best players available when they drafted them. 

[LGC88]

It's ok to build a team with young talents.
It's another story to teach them how to win games.
Ask OKC, how long it took for them...

[jambr380]

I am pretty over the Philly love train. I guess they landed in the perfect spot in the draft. While anybody would want Towns/Okafor, they don't really need either of them - Russell will be a perfect fit with their young team. The thing is, if they keep trading their young players for draft picks, then they will perpetually be a high lottery team. It seems like a good idea - finding the perfect young players and building a dynasty, but if those players don't pan out like you hoped, then you wasted a LOT of years on what everybody knows is wasted basketball.

At least other NBA teams have hope for each year, Sixers fans are just being forced to watch an inferior product from the beginning.

[PhoSita]

What sets Philly apart is the single-mindedness of their process.

From an outside viewpoint, at least, nearly every move they've made in the past few years has met the qualification "Could make the team better three or four years from now while not helping the team win games in the present."

[celticsclay]

Hopefully 76ers get Russell
So that they do not tank further again next year

I don't think there's any reason for them to tank next year.  I really admire what they pulled off here.   They are set up pretty brilliantly. 

I think the biggest gamble they made was dumping MCW.  I understand why they did it... they thought MCW was overrated (he probably is) and figured they'd get a better guard this year (they probably will with Russell).  They also gambled that they'd end up getting a top 7 pick this year from the Lakers.  Unfortunately for them, the Lakers are probably going to be significantly better next year... so Philly ends up getting probably a mid-to-late 1st for MCW.  Bad gamble.

But Russell, Embiid and Noel is a sick foundation.  Add Saric, cap space to sign talent and several other tradeable assets... I expect Philly to be a playoff team within 2 years.  Depending on how the rest of their offseason goes, they might even sneak into the playoffs next year. 

Russell, Wroten, Tobias Harris, Noel and Embiid, for example... that'd be interesting.

I know it sounds straight-up absurd that Philly could make a leap that quickly, but we don't know yet how good Embiid will be... and during the second half the season Philly had the #1 defensive rating in the league when Noel was on the court.  Add Embiid, some scoring punch and a signing or two... I mean... as Boston proved this year, it doesn't take much to sneak into the playoffs in the East.

i think even as a supporter of what philly is doing you have to admit that today was a bad day for them. Not only did they not get the lakers pick, which is going to be worse next year, but they also saw the lakers leap frog them and push them to number 3 where there seems to be a consensus drop off in value. After trading away MCW in hopes of bottoming out, it didn't pan out. Their plan could still 100% work out, but not acknowledging today went about as bad as it could for philly (no lakers or heat selection) is being dishonest.

Trying to say the Sixers had a bad day when they clearly didn't is being dishonest.  The Sixers finished with the 3rd worst record and got the 3rd pick.  The Lakers jumped them but they jumped the Knicks.  They had a better chance of not getting a top 3 pick then getting one so they actually beat the odds.  They only had a 17% chance to get the Lakers pick and less than 10% chance to get the Heat pick so not getting either pick is as expected.  They got the 3rd pick so they are in line to take Russell or Mudiay.  They certainly don't need another big.  They traded MCW because he wasn't their future PG not to bottom out.  They were already losing quite well with MCW.  The only team that had a bad day was the Knicks every other team held their position.  Now you would be accurate in saying that the end of the season did not go their way when they didn't get the Heat or OKC pick.

Tazz you are a trip. They didn't get any of the picks they had chances at (although they were mild to long shots they would), the team they own the draft pick of for next year was the only team that moved up in the draft, and they stayed in the same spot. Whether the Lakers draft towns or Okafor or trade the pick for a veteran, they got better yesterday. They will be better next year because of it. That sucks for the 76ers. Also for all the talk they don't need a top two pick, if they got one, they still could have traded it to a team drafting third or 4th and got additional assets. It wasn't the worst day ever, but it was bad. Nothing good happened.

[Moranis]

It's ok to build a team with young talents.
It's another story to teach them how to win games.
Ask OKC, how long it took for them...

not very long.  I mean they won 50 games when Harden and Ibaka were rookies, Westbrook was in his 2nd year, and Durant and Green were 3rd year players.  In fact OKC/Seattle did exactly what Philly did (traded away every veteran they had for draft picks and future picks), no one gave them crap.  I mean it is exactly the same.  At one point on here awhile ago, I actually went through all the Thunder moves and showed them to be pretty much the same type of moves as the Sixers made.

[GreenGoggles]

It's ok to build a team with young talents.
It's another story to teach them how to win games.
Ask OKC, how long it took for them...

not very long.  I mean they won 50 games when Harden and Ibaka were rookies, Westbrook was in his 2nd year, and Durant and Green were 3rd year players.  In fact OKC/Seattle did exactly what Philly did (traded away every veteran they had for draft picks and future picks), no one gave them crap.  I mean it is exactly the same.  At one point on here awhile ago, I actually went through all the Thunder moves and showed them to be pretty much the same type of moves as the Sixers made.

But how did Durant and Westbrook ever become superstar players in a losing culture?

[colincb]

If you went in to the lottery and had a chance to get the 1st, 6th, and 11th pick as the optimum outcome and ended up with a 3rd pick instead, I'd say that was not a good day. 

The Laker and MIA picks they will get next year are likely to be quite a bit worse in what also appears to be a weaker draft.

I also wouldn't be surprised if they end up with a less value they gave up in MCW either. Their trade was made based on their current rebuilding ideology so it's not a failure to them, but it looks likely to be a loss on a trade-value assessment.

[LGC88]

It's ok to build a team with young talents.
It's another story to teach them how to win games.
Ask OKC, how long it took for them...

not very long.  I mean they won 50 games when Harden and Ibaka were rookies, Westbrook was in his 2nd year, and Durant and Green were 3rd year players.  In fact OKC/Seattle did exactly what Philly did (traded away every veteran they had for draft picks and future picks), no one gave them crap.  I mean it is exactly the same.  At one point on here awhile ago, I actually went through all the Thunder moves and showed them to be pretty much the same type of moves as the Sixers made.

Not long? By the time they start winning (I mean relevantly in the playoff) they have to part with Harden. That means it took an entire rookie contract to be contender. That's slow, because you don't have time to surround your talents in 4 years.

[Smokeeye123]

It's ok to build a team with young talents.
It's another story to teach them how to win games.
Ask OKC, how long it took for them...

not very long.  I mean they won 50 games when Harden and Ibaka were rookies, Westbrook was in his 2nd year, and Durant and Green were 3rd year players.  In fact OKC/Seattle did exactly what Philly did (traded away every veteran they had for draft picks and future picks), no one gave them crap.  I mean it is exactly the same.  At one point on here awhile ago, I actually went through all the Thunder moves and showed them to be pretty much the same type of moves as the Sixers made.

Not long? By the time they start winning (I mean relevantly in the playoff) they have to part with Harden. That means it took an entire rookie contract to be contender. That's slow, because you don't have time to surround your talents in 4 years.

Oklahoma's mistake was keeping Westbrook and not Harden. If they had let him go and got a gamemanager pointguard they'd be in great shape.

[Moranis]

It's ok to build a team with young talents.
It's another story to teach them how to win games.
Ask OKC, how long it took for them...

not very long.  I mean they won 50 games when Harden and Ibaka were rookies, Westbrook was in his 2nd year, and Durant and Green were 3rd year players.  In fact OKC/Seattle did exactly what Philly did (traded away every veteran they had for draft picks and future picks), no one gave them crap.  I mean it is exactly the same.  At one point on here awhile ago, I actually went through all the Thunder moves and showed them to be pretty much the same type of moves as the Sixers made.

Not long? By the time they start winning (I mean relevantly in the playoff) they have to part with Harden. That means it took an entire rookie contract to be contender. That's slow, because you don't have time to surround your talents in 4 years.

They traded Harden after his 3rd year.  Those 3 years they lost in the 1st round, lost in the WCF, and lost in the NBA Finals.  I'd say they were winning pretty much his entire 3 years.

[mctyson]

Sure it could have gone better, but I don't think they would have traded MCW if they didn't convince themselves that a better guard would be available during this draft (Mudiay/Russell).   It would have been interesting to see what they would have done had they ended up with another elite big prospect, but now they don't have to worry about it.  Russell is a great fit next to Noel and Embiid.

So the team that drafted MCW and dumped him should be trusted on player evaluation in the draft?

[tazzmaniac]

Hopefully 76ers get Russell
So that they do not tank further again next year

I don't think there's any reason for them to tank next year.  I really admire what they pulled off here.   They are set up pretty brilliantly. 

I think the biggest gamble they made was dumping MCW.  I understand why they did it... they thought MCW was overrated (he probably is) and figured they'd get a better guard this year (they probably will with Russell).  They also gambled that they'd end up getting a top 7 pick this year from the Lakers.  Unfortunately for them, the Lakers are probably going to be significantly better next year... so Philly ends up getting probably a mid-to-late 1st for MCW.  Bad gamble.

But Russell, Embiid and Noel is a sick foundation.  Add Saric, cap space to sign talent and several other tradeable assets... I expect Philly to be a playoff team within 2 years.  Depending on how the rest of their offseason goes, they might even sneak into the playoffs next year. 

Russell, Wroten, Tobias Harris, Noel and Embiid, for example... that'd be interesting.

I know it sounds straight-up absurd that Philly could make a leap that quickly, but we don't know yet how good Embiid will be... and during the second half the season Philly had the #1 defensive rating in the league when Noel was on the court.  Add Embiid, some scoring punch and a signing or two... I mean... as Boston proved this year, it doesn't take much to sneak into the playoffs in the East.

i think even as a supporter of what philly is doing you have to admit that today was a bad day for them. Not only did they not get the lakers pick, which is going to be worse next year, but they also saw the lakers leap frog them and push them to number 3 where there seems to be a consensus drop off in value. After trading away MCW in hopes of bottoming out, it didn't pan out. Their plan could still 100% work out, but not acknowledging today went about as bad as it could for philly (no lakers or heat selection) is being dishonest.

Trying to say the Sixers had a bad day when they clearly didn't is being dishonest.  The Sixers finished with the 3rd worst record and got the 3rd pick.  The Lakers jumped them but they jumped the Knicks.  They had a better chance of not getting a top 3 pick then getting one so they actually beat the odds.  They only had a 17% chance to get the Lakers pick and less than 10% chance to get the Heat pick so not getting either pick is as expected.  They got the 3rd pick so they are in line to take Russell or Mudiay.  They certainly don't need another big.  They traded MCW because he wasn't their future PG not to bottom out.  They were already losing quite well with MCW.  The only team that had a bad day was the Knicks every other team held their position.  Now you would be accurate in saying that the end of the season did not go their way when they didn't get the Heat or OKC pick.

Tazz you are a trip. They didn't get any of the picks they had chances at (although they were mild to long shots they would), the team they own the draft pick of for next year was the only team that moved up in the draft, and they stayed in the same spot. Whether the Lakers draft towns or Okafor or trade the pick for a veteran, they got better yesterday. They will be better next year because of it. That sucks for the 76ers. Also for all the talk they don't need a top two pick, if they got one, they still could have traded it to a team drafting third or 4th and got additional assets. It wasn't the worst day ever, but it was bad. Nothing good happened.

I didn't say the Sixers had a good night.  I just said they didn't have a bad night.  By your definition, they would have had to beat longshot odds to avoid having a bad night.  If the Sixers had gotten the Lakers pick at 6, it most likely would have dropped their own pick down to 5.  If they had wound up with the 5th and 6th picks, you be on here arguing that they had a bad day because they would most likely miss out on getting one of the top 4 players (Towns, Okafor, Russell and Mudiay) in the draft.   

The chances of the Sixers getting the Lakers pick this year was always low.  What hurt the Sixers was the poor end of the season play by OKC and especially Miami costing the Sixers those picks.  Even so if I'm Hinkie, I'm quite happy thinking about Embiid, Noel and probably Russell on the court next season.