ROY: Andrew Wiggins or Nerlens Noel

[krumeto]

Neither of the two. Mirotic should get it.

He has been the best player on a 3rd seed for 2 months and counting. 8 20+games, scoring in double dig. in all but 1 game, rebounding very well. His team plays to win and he has recently been their best offensive weapon.

It is way easier to put up stats when playing meaningless games. Noel and Wiggins are great but their teams are built to lose as much as possible. Look no further than the season the previous ROY MCW has been having.

[Moranis]

Wiggins. You really really love Noels by the way. Putting him in the same sentence as Davis is just unfair to Noel.

I like dominant defensive bigs, but I also like well-rounded elite scorers.   I like both of those guys.  I'm bummed we couldn't land Noel for Rondo during the 2013 draft... I'm equally bummed we missed out on a top 3 pick during the 2014 draft.  BOth of those guys look like they are going to be perennial all-stars. 

And is it actually unfair to Noel to compare him to Davis?  Davis is a better scorer.  Are we sure Noel isn't going to be a better defender?

Yes Davis has transcendent athleticism and is in legitimate conversation for MVP this year at 23 years old. He is having one of the best statistical seasons in the history of the NBA. Comparing a guy that is having a really nice rookie season to him is just stupid and pointless and again even unfair to Noel. I know you are smarter and more realistic than this. Is the hyperbole really that necessary to express that you like him?

But he was pointing out that they had similar rookie seasons.  Nothing wrong with that at all, you know when the stats show they did in fact have similar rookie seasons.

Rookie Davis per 100 possessions: 25.5 points, 15.3 rebounds, 2.2 steals, 3.3 blocks, 56 TS%, .159 WS/48.
Rookie Noel per 100 possessions: 16.1 points, 13.2 rebounds, 2.9 steals, 3.1 blocks, 50 TS%, .084 WS/48.

Only David Robinson has done what Davis did as rookie. I started watching more of Noel since New Year and he can definitely be as good a defender as Davis, but they weren't that close statistically as rookies. Davis was much better.

So even that stats part isn't accurate. It just makes our board look bad when we make such outlandish comparisons. I don't think even the strongest Philly homers are making a Noel Davis comparison. I get the shtick, say outlandish things and try to get a rise out of people, but sometimes it's just derails a good conversation.

Um Anthony Davis and Nerlens Noel rookie stats.  I'll let you guess which one is Davis and which one is Noel

13.5 p, 8.2 r, 1.0 a, 1.2 s, 1.8 b - 28.8 minutes 51.6 from the field, 75.1 from the line
10.0 p, 8.2 r, 1.7 a, 1.8 s, 1.9 b - 31 minutes 46.3 from the field, 61.4 from the line

And Noel's stats will end better than they are now as he has gotten significantly better as he recovers from a devastating knee injury. 

[Moranis]

And BTW, Noel's defensive win shares are already at 4.2 this season.  That is higher than Davis in any of Davis' 3 years and just about doubles Davis' rookie year.  That number will get bigger as the season goes on as well.  Noel's offensive win share are -0.3.  He is clearly a pretty poor offensive player as he doesn't hit at a good percentage and can't hit the broad side of a barn from outside like 5 feet.  He is an ok foul shooter, so Noel should get better offensively, but he will never be Davis on that end, though it certainly could be argued he is already a better defender when you take into account steals and the quality of his surrounding teammates. 

[krumeto]

Wiggins. You really really love Noels by the way. Putting him in the same sentence as Davis is just unfair to Noel.

I like dominant defensive bigs, but I also like well-rounded elite scorers.   I like both of those guys.  I'm bummed we couldn't land Noel for Rondo during the 2013 draft... I'm equally bummed we missed out on a top 3 pick during the 2014 draft.  BOth of those guys look like they are going to be perennial all-stars. 

And is it actually unfair to Noel to compare him to Davis?  Davis is a better scorer.  Are we sure Noel isn't going to be a better defender?

Yes Davis has transcendent athleticism and is in legitimate conversation for MVP this year at 23 years old. He is having one of the best statistical seasons in the history of the NBA. Comparing a guy that is having a really nice rookie season to him is just stupid and pointless and again even unfair to Noel. I know you are smarter and more realistic than this. Is the hyperbole really that necessary to express that you like him?

But he was pointing out that they had similar rookie seasons.  Nothing wrong with that at all, you know when the stats show they did in fact have similar rookie seasons.

Rookie Davis per 100 possessions: 25.5 points, 15.3 rebounds, 2.2 steals, 3.3 blocks, 56 TS%, .159 WS/48.
Rookie Noel per 100 possessions: 16.1 points, 13.2 rebounds, 2.9 steals, 3.1 blocks, 50 TS%, .084 WS/48.

Only David Robinson has done what Davis did as rookie. I started watching more of Noel since New Year and he can definitely be as good a defender as Davis, but they weren't that close statistically as rookies. Davis was much better.

So even that stats part isn't accurate. It just makes our board look bad when we make such outlandish comparisons. I don't think even the strongest Philly homers are making a Noel Davis comparison. I get the shtick, say outlandish things and try to get a rise out of people, but sometimes it's just derails a good conversation.

Um Anthony Davis and Nerlens Noel rookie stats.  I'll let you guess which one is Davis and which one is Noel

13.5 p, 8.2 r, 1.0 a, 1.2 s, 1.8 b - 28.8 minutes 51.6 from the field, 75.1 from the line
10.0 p, 8.2 r, 1.7 a, 1.8 s, 1.9 b - 31 minutes 46.3 from the field, 61.4 from the line

And Noel's stats will end better than they are now as he has gotten significantly better as he recovers from a devastating knee injury.

The comparison is really a non-starter. Let me add the %s for perspective. I'll let you guess which one is Davis and which one is Noel. Davis is a year younger in his rookie year.
FG%     TS%
0.516    0.559
0.463    0.495

Noel is a very good player. Davis is one of a kind.

[Roy H.]

Davis is going to be a special player, and probably already is.  However, in terms of pure defense, I think I take Noel.

New Orleans screwed up so much with the Jrue Holiday trade.  I love Holiday, but the chance to pair Davis and Noel was one that they shouldn't have passed up.

[Moranis]

Davis is going to be a special player, and probably already is.  However, in terms of pure defense, I think I take Noel.

New Orleans screwed up so much with the Jrue Holiday trade.  I love Holiday, but the chance to pair Davis and Noel was one that they shouldn't have passed up.

Plus they gave up another pick which became Elfrid Payton.  Imagine how good they would be right now with Payton and Noel instead of Holiday and Pierre Jackson (who also came with Holiday but who hasn't played at all).  Not that Holiday has been a bad player, but seems like Noel and Payton might have been better options (though they probably would have been worse and might have drafted even higher than Payton - or they might not have acquired Asik if they had Noel).

[LarBrd33]

And BTW, Noel's defensive win shares are already at 4.2 this season.  That is higher than Davis in any of Davis' 3 years and just about doubles Davis' rookie year.  That number will get bigger as the season goes on as well.  Noel's offensive win share are -0.3.  He is clearly a pretty poor offensive player as he doesn't hit at a good percentage and can't hit the broad side of a barn from outside like 5 feet.  He is an ok foul shooter, so Noel should get better offensively, but he will never be Davis on that end, though it certainly could be argued he is already a better defender when you take into account steals and the quality of his surrounding teammates.

I'm kinda surprised how polarizing Noel is on this forum.   There's multiple people calling me a troll for daring to mention Anthony Davis and Noel in the same sentence.  Reminds me a lot of when fans called me a troll for mentioning Anthony Davis and Kevin Garnett in the same sentence back during his rookie year.  Sure, it's nice that 3 years later everyone has joined my Anthony Davis hype party... but what is it about Nerlens that has such hostile reactions?

I was really big on Drummond's potential as well.  I think Nerlens is a better prospect than that.

[D.o.s.]

So, uh, you officially changed your name to Chad Ford yet or what?

[LarBrd33]

Davis is going to be a special player, and probably already is.  However, in terms of pure defense, I think I take Noel.

New Orleans screwed up so much with the Jrue Holiday trade.  I love Holiday, but the chance to pair Davis and Noel was one that they shouldn't have passed up.

Plus they gave up another pick which became Elfrid Payton.  Imagine how good they would be right now with Payton and Noel instead of Holiday and Pierre Jackson (who also came with Holiday but who hasn't played at all).  Not that Holiday has been a bad player, but seems like Noel and Payton might have been better options (though they probably would have been worse and might have drafted even higher than Payton - or they might not have acquired Asik if they had Noel).

I'm still annoyed about that Jrue Holiday trade, because I would have gladly traded Rondo straight-up for Rondo on draft night.   Philly ended up getting Nerlens and Elfrid Payton out of the deal.  They flipped Elfrid Payton for Dario Saric (and also got back their own 2017 pick... which protected, but whatever).   There's lot of Saric believers out there who say that kid is going to be special. 

Much has been made of Boston's bounty of assets and cap space, but Philly trumps us in almost every way.  Noel is legit.  Embiid should be a star as long as he's healthy.   They have another top 4 pick this summer.  They have plenty of cap space and tradeable prospects.   I mean... take Dario Saric, for instance.  If Boston owned his rights, where would he fall in our ranking of asset value?  I think he'd be right up there with Sully and Olynyk... arguably more valuable than our 1st round pick this year (#15 if we make the playoffs).   Philly can get really good really quick.

[celticsclay]

Davis is going to be a special player, and probably already is.  However, in terms of pure defense, I think I take Noel.

New Orleans screwed up so much with the Jrue Holiday trade.  I love Holiday, but the chance to pair Davis and Noel was one that they shouldn't have passed up.

Plus they gave up another pick which became Elfrid Payton.  Imagine how good they would be right now with Payton and Noel instead of Holiday and Pierre Jackson (who also came with Holiday but who hasn't played at all).  Not that Holiday has been a bad player, but seems like Noel and Payton might have been better options (though they probably would have been worse and might have drafted even higher than Payton - or they might not have acquired Asik if they had Noel).

I'm still annoyed about that Jrue Holiday trade, because I would have gladly traded Rondo straight-up for Rondo on draft night.   Philly ended up getting Nerlens and Elfrid Payton out of the deal.  They flipped Elfrid Payton for Dario Saric (and also got back their own 2017 pick... which protected, but whatever).   There's lot of Saric believers out there who say that kid is going to be special. 

Much has been made of Boston's bounty of assets and cap space, but Philly trumps us in almost every way.  Noel is legit.  Embiid should be a star as long as he's healthy.   They have another top 4 pick this summer.  They have plenty of cap space and tradeable prospects.   I mean... take Dario Saric, for instance.  If Boston owned his rights, where would he fall in our ranking of asset value?  I think he'd be right up there with Sully and Olynyk... arguably more valuable than our 1st round pick this year (#15 if we make the playoffs).   Philly can get really good really quick.

I think the whole forum has traded rondo for rondo

[incoherent]

Wiggins.  The league's thank you to Minny for creating another Lebron super team.

[Vox_Populi]

So, uh, you officially changed your name to Chad Ford yet or what?

I personally think he's Bill Simmons.

[D.o.s.]

So, uh, you officially changed your name to Chad Ford yet or what?

I personally think he's Bill Simmons.

I'm pretty sure I remember reading that Simmons already posts here under a different moniker. LarBrd just reads Simmons (obviously).

[celticsclay]

So, uh, you officially changed your name to Chad Ford yet or what?

I personally think he's Bill Simmons.

I'm pretty sure I remember reading that Simmons already posts here under a different moniker. LarBrd just reads Simmons (obviously).

If he was Simmons he wouldn't be comparing Noel and Embiid as feverishly...

[LarBrd33]

D.o.s.,  are you down on Nerlens too?  Is it grand hyperbole for me to compare him to Anthony Davis?  Is it unthinkable that Nerlens will develop into a superior defensive talent?