Author Topic: One final point on Tanking  (Read 4642 times)

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Re: One final point on Tanking
« Reply #30 on: March 30, 2015, 08:49:25 PM »

Offline mgent

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Evan Turner has surprised me in a positive way.  For the most part his body language has been positive-teammate body language -- engaging, patting teammatess on the back, fives on the FT line, helping up like KG.  He's also seemed engaged defensively in every game I've watched (which is almost all).   I get that he's frutrating to watch as a player at times, but overall he's been a pleasant surprise for me. 

Regarding tanking -- I really hate the word.  I want the C's to miss the playoffs and get the 9th/10th seed and a 5% chance at lottery gold.     But I do not want the C's to throw games or for CBS to play lesser plays (with the exception of JY who I'd like to see get NBA pt) just to try to lose games.   I want the C's to give it everything they have and then end up on the losing end of competitive games.  This isn't tanking -- it's just hoping we get a better better draft pick because I think it will be slightly better for the team's future.

I hate wanting the team to lose, but I also can't deny that this is where my heart takes me every game.  However, I'd feel much worse if I thought it was purposeful intent to lose (i.e., tanking).

TP, Neurotic Guy, as you said all that I would say, only better. The only thing I disagree with regards Young, but that s a discussion for another thread and another day.

TP to the OP, especially paragraphs #3, #4 and the last one . Well said.

Regarding ET, anyone who bloodies up Sir lance for the reasons that ET did (defending Hibbert for getting ragged on by Sir Lance in a pre-playoff game practice. Sir Lance was calling out, in front of the whole team and staff, Hibbert's poor play in the last half of the season/playoffs, blaming it in Hibbert being butt-sore because Paul "Catfish" George was banging Hibberts Girlfriend), is more than OK in my book. That makes him likable in my book.

Wow, that's what happened?

Because Lance was 100% right (obviously aside from the girlfriend thing).  Hibbert's play was very clearly the difference between the early dominate Pacers and the later sucky Pacers.  If he was called out in front of the whole team and staff, it was, without a doubt, fully deserved. 

Especially since he makes the max.  That doesn't make you immune to criticism, it completely opens you up to it if you're not carrying your team (and Hibbert wasn't "not carrying," he was hurting his team severely when on the court).
« Last Edit: March 30, 2015, 08:55:05 PM by mgent »
Philly:

Anderson Varejao    Tiago Splitter    Matt Bonner
David West    Kenyon Martin    Brad Miller
Andre Iguodala    Josh Childress    Marquis Daniels
Dwyane Wade    Leandro Barbosa
Kirk Hinrich    Toney Douglas   + the legendary Kevin McHale

Re: One final point on Tanking
« Reply #31 on: March 30, 2015, 09:25:03 PM »

Offline Smokeeye123

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It depends. I'd rather a 2% shot at Towns/Okafor/Mudiay than a 0% shot at a championship

Re: One final point on Tanking
« Reply #32 on: March 31, 2015, 12:08:34 AM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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I never thought I would still be seeing the debate going with 9 games left in the season, but this is where we are, we have played 73 games of basketball and people are still debating whether we should root for losses or wins in the final games.

I wanted to point out a few things.

1) We know that CBS is going to have the guys play very hard in every single game. As a result of this we will most likely win 2 or 3 more games against the weaker teams on their schedule (Pistons, maybe Charlotte or the reeling Bucks). We also have a few games other teams will not necessarily being trying to win. For, example, Blatt claimed yesterday he would not rest players. However, Love and Shumpert both left their game against Philly with what appeared to be minor injuries. Is this guy gonna really risk a title shot with a seed locked up against us twice in the final week? Especially considering Love has battled chronic back pain this year and Lebron needed two weeks off to reboot? These are all things that are out of our control and it really is pretty unlikely we will lose every game.

2) Do we live in a vacuum that the other teams in the East are not well aware of how the draft process works? Do you think their gm's and coaches and fans are not having a conversation about this? Do we think that Charlotte and Miami (not to mention teams like Utah and Denver in the West) don't want to get the best pick possible? Think about Miami for a second and imagine if we were them. Instead of debating pick 9 versus 15, it is debating 9 versus nothing! How can that team want to make the playoffs, especially considering they are without their best player (Bosh) and half their rotation is banged up? So even if we could somehow get inside the brain of CBS at best we could get him to have the same mindset that some of these other teams will have.

3) I think there is only one thing I can think of off hand that everyone on the blog agrees with. That is that 95% of the time this group of players is giving it their best and putting out 100% effort. In a league where you have many players just collecting their pay check, not playing defense or being in horrible shape (sullinger is not currently playing), isn't it kind of hard to root for a team playing the game the right way to fail each night? That has to be kind of depressing.

4) This is related to number 3, but this seems to be a likeable group of players. We don't have any jerks on the team, players appear really unselfish and all seem to like the coach and each other. The vets like Bass, who in other situations have demanded a buy out or have sulked, have been consummate professionals. Even a guy like Gigi just appears absolutely elated for his teammates when they play well. Some, if not a lot of these guy, will not be with the team next year. Can't we just enjoy their last games as Celtics and appreciate them as hard working good teammates that tried their best for us?

I get that I am unlikely to change the tone of the board or any posters opinion's with these points, but just felt like sharing them. These next few weeks will be the last Celtics basketball for 5 months and the last time to see some Celtics in green. I personally am going to enjoy them and will root for them. The chips will fall where they may and I hope we get a nice talented young player in a few months whether it be at pick 9, 10 or 15. Hope some others enjoy it with me.
I'm hoping they play hard and end up missing the playoffs anyway.  I definitely don't want to back into the playoffs because some of the better teams rest their stars against us.  Regarding our other competition for the last couple playoff spots, Brooklyn is obviously not tanking and I don't see Miami, Indy or Charlotte doing so either.

I may make a separate thread about this, cause it is something that fascinates me, but why in the world does Miami want to make the playoffs right now? They will lose a top 10 pick if they do, which is a pretty valuable asset (especially on this forum). They also are playing without Bosh while Wade, Whiteside, Deng and Anderson have all battled injuries. It is not like their fan base or front office is starving for a first round playoff experience or they have many young players that would benefit from it.

Are Miami fans up in arms about this? It seems like a pretty clear decision to me that they should take one step back, missing a first round playoff series short handed, to come back next season with a healthy Bosh and either a top 10 pick, or another veteran they receive for top 10 pick. Dragic, Wade, Deng, Bosh, Whitesite and contributing rookie or other vets could conceivably give Cleveland or Atlanta a run for their money.

The one thing it makes me wonder is how big a role Riley's ego is playing in all of this. He was obviously upset with the the way things with Lebron went down saying something along the lines of  wouldn't have gotten mcroberts or possibly napier if he knew lebron was leaving. Now maybe it is a little too much to miss the playoffs after trading for Dragic and watching Lebron as a top seed.
I think it is pretty clear that Miami so far isn't tanking to prevent losing their pick.  Spoelstra said he was thankful that the Miami org didn't have that mindset.  As long as Wade can play, I think they'll go for the playoffs.  They could still pass the Bucks for 6th and avoid the Cavs in the 1st round. 

As to what Miami should do, I think it is debatable.  The Miami pick is top 10 protected this year and next year and unprotected in 2017.  This year it looks like they'd lose the 16th pick.  I'm not convinced that Miami will be much better next year.  I haven't seen anything on the recovery prognosis for Bosh.  Wade's health is a big question mark too.  Also Wade, Deng and Dragic all have player options.  Dragic is almost certainly going to opt out to get a big pay raise.  I'm not sure what Wade and Deng will do.  To keep the team intact, I think Miami is going to have to go well into the luxury tax zone.  I'm not sure that they are going to want to do that.   

Let's say Miami tanks to keep their pick this year and ends up keeping the pick next year because of health issues and losing Dragic.  They would lose their pick to Philly unprotected in 2017 and they would lose their 2019 and 2021 picks unprotected to the Suns.  In their position all things considered, I think I'd go for the playoffs this year and lose the 16th pick to Philly  and then lose a top 7 protected pick to the Suns in 2017 or 2018 and the 2021 unprotected pick.