its simple-missing sully's bulk

[rollie mass]

de andre jordon did make zeller and jerbko look like waifs--how many points did blake and jordon score-waif is generally considered underweight,too thin-jerebko runs and hustles got 2 offensive and6 defensive-i'm sorry but whan you put them next to jordon they look like he could snap them-nice 360 block by blake-and those thunderous dunks by jordon-what game did you watch-i am a zeller and jerbco supporter but cousins,mozogov and lopez-zeller bulked up during summer but has dropped weight as season progressed-oh yea rudy gorbet---

[Celtics4ever]

This was your original post, so you edit and cut and paste it until the end?   It is as silly as it was when you had it at the beginning of the post.  What gives?  His Bulk is his problem and why he had a foot fracture.

It also ignores how the Celtics were already in an upward trend WITH Sullinger before he got injured, and right after that we got the influx of talent.

So this talk about how we've been better without Sullinger is just a bunch of nonsense.

  Numbers do not lie.

But the notion that the reason for our success has been because we don't have Sullinger on the floor is crap. We'd be even better right now, and there's little doubt on that.

 I never said that, I said that we have ball movement and run, two things that we did not have with Sullinger.     Do you think we ran better when Sully would lumber up the court and launch a three without any ball movement?  Some people think that most likely because some people think he is  a good defender too and can't get past the 15/9 that he posts.   Other teams bigs post even better numbers against him though.

Ainge served him notice, even he is sick of his act.   His weight his season was not very professional.

If he can become a two way player, that we all want... that would be a positive.

I agree. but that is a big if considering he posted bottom scores at his rookie combine, in the speed drills and vertical leap.     Some use the back excuse but he has never demonstrated above average athletic ability even when healthy and trim.   That is a testament to his skill level which is high.

[BudweiserCeltic]

It also ignores how the Celtics were already in an upward trend WITH Sullinger before he got injured, and right after that we got the influx of talent.

So this talk about how we've been better without Sullinger is just a bunch of nonsense.

  Numbers do not lie.

Exactly, it doesn't. Since Green was traded we went 8-8 with Sullinger. That's a 50% record, so the improvement trend was already on-going. Our loses? Seven of those loses were against playoff teams, and five being among the powerhouses: Chicago, Golden State, Hawks, Houston, Clippers.

But sure we can go the jostle on the semantics argument if that is your main interest. But the fact remains that the team that's been playing without Sullinger is significantly different from a personnel standpoint to the team that Sullinger was part of prior to going down.

Considering that we had a 50% record going into his injury after the latest roster change, including winning his final ugly game against arguably the best team in the NBA at the time, the Hawks. After the trio of loses against Chicago, Atlanta, Clippers, we went 7-5 over his final twelve games, and even then we were already discussing playoff aspirations.

So this comparison about "this team" with and without Sullinger is creating a false dichotomy in the way it's being discussed, with little allowance on context while completely ignoring the upward trend the team was already enjoying prior to Sully going down for us right before the influx of additional talent.

But the notion that the reason for our success has been because we don't have Sullinger on the floor is crap. We'd be even better right now, and there's little doubt on that.

 I never said that, I said that we have ball movement and run, two things that we did not have with Sullinger.     Do you think we ran better when Sully would lumber up the court and launch a three without any ball movement?  Some people think that most likely because some people think he is  a good defender too and can't get past the 15/9 that he posts.   Other teams bigs post even better numbers against him though.

Ainge served him notice, even he is sick of his act.   His weight his season was not very professional.

You might not have explicitly said it in this thread, but it is what you've been alluding to. As for the rest, I really don't care to discuss, ex. style of play.

As for Sullinger, his defense this year has been lacking, but he has been quite good defensively as well during his career. But we have a lot of suckage defensively with pretty much all our bigs as it is, so using Sully as an excuse for improvement defensively this year, as seemingly alluded, is shortsighted.

[rollie mass]

i seem to remember sully as being effective against the big strong centers-and i still see him on the floor with the instincts to pass behind 3 point line for a open 3---i will ask again who has strength to take on jordon,cousins ,lopez,mozogov,-sully at least could not be moved or  be bullied down low-why the sully hate--no more beer for a week,no carbs that means pizza too thats for all you sully bashers-

[td450]

i seem to remember sully as being effective against the big strong centers-and i still see him on the floor with the instincts to pass behind 3 point line for a open 3---i will ask again who has strength to take on jordon,cousins ,lopez,mozogov,-sully at least could not be moved or  be bullied down low-why the sully hate--no more beer for a week,no carbs that means pizza too thats for all you sully bashers-

You are right that Sully can hold his spot against most centers. Stevens saw this and used him that way whenever he could. Unfortunately, that is the only role he can play on defense, other than taking an occasional charge.

Better offensive centers can deal with Sully's positioning, and can go over him at will. He is useless as a help defender/rim protector and he cannot cover any offensively capable power forwards. This means we have serious holes up front whenever he plays. We either have a center who can't help at all, or a power forward who can't cover his man.

Bass and Jerebko are not perfect, but they give Stevens options, and he is smart enough to make it work most of the time. The C's play much better defense when they get the minutes.

[Celtics4ever]

You are right that Sully can hold his spot against most centers.

Funny that his stats do not bear this out if look at Opponent Counterpart 48-Minute Production

C's shoot 50% vs him, average 17 PER, not as good as your memory inOpponent Counterpart 48-Minute Production


http://www.82games.com/1213/12BOS15.HTM

We had 19 fast break points last night, we averaged around 12- 13 when he was here.   

i seem to remember sully as being effective against the big strong centers-and i still see him on the floor with the instincts to pass behind 3 point line for a open 3---i will ask again who has strength to take on jordon,cousins ,lopez,mozogov,-sully at least could not be moved or  be bullied down low-why the sully hate--no more beer for a week,no carbs that means pizza too thats for all you sully bashers-

Is your memory really trust worthy. you bad mouthed Jerebko as a waif, when he led us in rebounds? 

He shoots .29% from three is that a shot you want him to take with regularity.   He claimed to have worked on his shot last year and raised it a whole .1%.

He is not that strong, he is heavy there is a difference.   He only benched 185 nine times at his combine.   Something that Smart doubled and Crowder did more of.   Bulk allows you to move people but it is not strength.

What he is effective is guys who are slower and he can match up against and who he can push around.   I have seen tall centers eat him for lunch.   If DA was so confident why did he get Zeller?  He 's not is the answer and he basically gave him an or else for the off season.

The game I think he played best against a quality opponent was Anthony Davis who lacks the strength to hold him off.  That being said Davis is a way better player.

Here are his production vs. various teams.

http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/boston-celtics/players/jared-sullinger/byopponent/15/2/25

he played worse this year vs. MIA, SA, ORL

He played best against NO,GS, SAC

To shoot he played good against C down, which shows faulty memory by the lot of you.

He is 3 won three matchups at C, lost 6.  He won 14 at PF and lost 12.

here is a list of best and worst perfomances

http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/boston-celtics/players/jared-sullinger/bestworst/15/2/25

None of the best are against teams with long standing pivots save the Jan 5, 2015 game against Charlotte, which he also one of his worst games on Dec 10,2014.  So one can see he wanted revenge in that one, which I love in a player.  He also had a good game against Sac  DEC 31st.   So there are two good games against a good C, in Cousins and Big Al.

http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/boston-celtics/players/jared-sullinger/matchups/15/2/25

[rollie mass]

saying jerebko and zeller can run the floor but looked like  waifs  against jordon thunderous offense-jerebko has been a favorite along with zeller--how many points did jordon and blake score and how easily-4 defensive rebounds an 2 offensive is meaningless when losing by the degree we did-waif  meaning young and thin---i seem to remember jerebko making a perfectly executed play underneath and blake doing a 360 to block the shot-