Is Smart in Steven's doghouse?

[droopdog7]

Besides Smart's defense, I have not read a single statement in this thread that gives any tangible evidence for why Smart will be a good player.  Instead, I see that he is young (a non positive statement if there ever was one), he hit the wall (another non-compliment), he's experimenting with his game (huh?), he's taken shots at the end of the clock (you're the ****' PG, get the team better shots then), his ankle injury is bothering him (really?), and on and on.

On the downside, we know he's slow (lose weight?), he can't finish, he need's to work on his handle (sorry, the good ones have this from day 1), his shot is inconsistent (he can work to get better but likely will never be great or very good), and he isn't a natural PG (again, day 1).

So seems to me most of hoping in one hand and ****ting in the other.  Let's see which one fills up first.

I don't think he's slow. I think he isn't very smooth but is very quick (which you can see when he plays defense).

Things he does well besides defense:
-Transition ball handling
-Vision and passing
-Making plays to get to 50/50 balls
-Posting up smaller point guards

TP for addressing the post.  But I am not sure about the vision and passing (at least not compared to most PG's).  Transition ball handling?  Not sure that is a huge part of the game but okay.  And is is posting up a lot?  I have not seen it much in the games I have watched.  50/50.  Okay, and that is what you want from any player.

As far as whether he is slow, I think part of what we are seeing is hesitancy when Smart drives.  He isn't really going all out I think in part because he knows he will have trouble finishing.  Either way, not good.

In any event, none of this screams all-star or even fringe all-star. 

[Csfan1984]

Some of you guys are too funny. It's like you expect a 20 year old rookie who just turned 21 to be a borderline all-star. People forget how long this year has been for him. Probably the longest whirlwind year he will have in his pro career. Playing college, traveling for workouts/interviews, meetings, getting drafted, public appearances, getting family/friends straight, camps of U.S. team, camps of Celtics, learning area, preseason, Rondo, tanking, 20 different team-mates, IT, playoff chase, a suspension, and now probably back to tanking. This should be a write off year not a year we say predicts his entire career.

[mmmmm]

We're in game 73 of his rookie year, on a team that had more roster turnover than any other in the league. If he looks worn out mentally and physically, he has good reason.

We will learn a lot more about him in the first 20 games of his second season than we will in the last 10 games of his first season. Let's be patient.

Thank you and TP for writing exactly what I came here to right.  Look, I know it's Boston and we're used to building up athletes and then tearing them down when they don't meet our expectations right away.  I hated the draft pick last year, but after having watched him for most of his rookie season, I'm actually beginning to enjoy the Celtics games again.  He's a big part of the reason.

[Rant]Should he be in Stevens's doghouse (for now)?  I think so.  Does he occasionally look like the kid who ran into the stands to attack a fan?  Yup.  But the kid just turned 21.  Most people were playing beer pong at that age.  Not me, because I'm a dork, but most normal people.

In the past week I've seen threads about trading for James Young and now this one where we're seeing suggestions to trade Smart because he's not Rondo.  Nobody on the team is untradeable, but can we give the kids a couple of years to develop before we ship them off for Tayshaun Prince?[/Rant]

Mike

Just to clarify my own position:  I agree with the assessment that he looks like he's just hit a "rookie wall" at this point.  He looks tired, sloppy, frustrated and unfocused.

And with respect to my expectations for Marcus, I'm OK with that.  It doesn't change my projection of him to become a very good NBA player at all.  It doesn't make me think he should be traded any more than I think anybody on our roster could be traded. (Imo, no one should be considered untradable.)

What I have a problem with is putting him on the floor right now as a starter if our team's stated desire is to make the playoffs.

He is not playing well enough right now to deserve the starting spot.

Since the trading deadline (which is when the current roster 'solidified', the team has been 8.5 points better per 100 possessions when Marcus is NOT on the floor.

[mmmmm]

I think he might just be hitting a rookie wall.  His offense is a work in progress.  It takes a while for some players.  Just look at Avery Bradley.  I think Smarts ceiling is higher than Bradley's.  Bradley was a mess his rookie year and look at him now.

In fairness to AB, he really never played until the last 1-2 games of his rookie year, but when he did get a chance to play, he dropped 20 on the knicks, iirc, which is far better than what we've seen from Smart so far.

AB literally had a good half of basketball vs. the Knicks on the last game of the regular season, when both teams were resting anyone who was a regular, since they were going to start a playoff series against each other in three days.  It was a fun game to watch, but to say that his game against the Knicks was better than the 25/9/5 line that Smart put up just 10 days ago against OKC in the middle of a playoff race for both teams is just laughable.

I know that it was our b and c team versus the same for the knicks, but I guess my whole thing is that, when AB was given an opportunity, not only did he embrace it, but he pretty much showed us much of what he could be.  With Smart, it seems like he has maybe one good game a month, no matter who he's playing against.  Sometimes, like last night's game, he'll go 0-6, but then in other contests he'll play more minutes but only take 3 shots, leaving me to think, "huh?"  I'm just completely baffled by how bad he's been.  Like I said before, I'm not giving up on him, but I think he needs to take a real look at his game, as well as his physique.  Perhaps if he lost 15-20 lbs. he might be able to get to the basket, as opposed to what's not happening right now.  It couldn't hurt, right?

AB shot .343 from the 2 and .000 from the 3 and .500 on FTs in his first year.

Smart hit a 3, went 3-3 from the line and scored 10 points to go along with 4 steals, a couple of assists and a couple of boards in his first game in the NBA.

I think comparisons between Smart's current rookie season, during which he turned 21, after a full summer league and training camp and during which he's gotten regular rotation minutes and Bradley's rookie season, during which he turned 20, and came after getting injured pre-draft, missing SL, training camp and the first few months of the season in a contend team where he got nothing but microscopic slop minutes at the end of the first half in the occasional blow out is more than a bit off.  He was 3rd string behind a future hall of famed.   Bradley totaled just 162 minutes that entire season.

A better comparison would probably be Bradley's sophomore season.   As I recall, he played pretty well that year.

[celtics2030]

Besides Smart's defense, I have not read a single statement in this thread that gives any tangible evidence for why Smart will be a good player.  Instead, I see that he is young (a non positive statement if there ever was one), he hit the wall (another non-compliment), he's experimenting with his game (huh?), he's taken shots at the end of the clock (you're the ****' PG, get the team better shots then), his ankle injury is bothering him (really?), and on and on.

On the downside, we know he's slow (lose weight?), he can't finish, he need's to work on his handle (sorry, the good ones have this from day 1), his shot is inconsistent (he can work to get better but likely will never be great or very good), and he isn't a natural PG (again, day 1).

So seems to me most of hoping in one hand and ****ting in the other.  Let's see which one fills up first.

I don't think he's slow. I think he isn't very smooth but is very quick (which you can see when he plays defense).

Things he does well besides defense:
-Transition ball handling
-Vision and passing
-Making plays to get to 50/50 balls
-Posting up smaller point guards

Realllly? Another example of overexagerating.....

Posting up, he does that well? Has he ever posted up yet?

Vision and Passing? He's been ok ..

Transition Ball Handline,......ehh

Hes a hustler, thats one thing he does well.

[littleteapot]

TP for addressing the post.  But I am not sure about the vision and passing (at least not compared to most PG's).  Transition ball handling?  Not sure that is a huge part of the game but okay.  And is is posting up a lot?  I have not seen it much in the games I have watched.  50/50.  Okay, and that is what you want from any player.

As far as whether he is slow, I think part of what we are seeing is hesitancy when Smart drives.  He isn't really going all out I think in part because he knows he will have trouble finishing.  Either way, not good.

In any event, none of this screams all-star or even fringe all-star.

I agree that these aren't the main skills you need to be a truly great offensive weapon. I think they demonstrate that:
A - he has the talent and doesn't just have "role player potential"
B - his instincts are very good and sees the game in an encouraging way
I think he has all star potential if developed in the right way which TBH I don't think the C's are doing right now.

I agree that he's hesitant when he goes to the basket, which is why he sometimes looks like a completely different athlete with the ball in his hands. THIS IS WHY HE NEEDS TO BE ENCOURAGED TO KEEP DOING IT. It's the only way he's going to get better.

[gpap]

Smart isn't playing well enough to earn more minutes.   He's become a huge albatross on offense for the starters right now.

Arguably, he shouldn't even be starting at this point.

Blame it on the 'rookie wall' if you want.  And I'm not saying that Smart doesn't have a great future ahead of him.  But right now, he is part of the problem with our starters.

Are we serious about trying to make the playoffs or not?  If not, then whatever, might as well tank our way into the 9th pick (still within reach).   But if we are, then why the heck isn't Thomas starting?

I don't see how that's the case. Every time I see Smart, he hustles on both ends of the floor and plays his as* off.

Certainly you could make the argument that maybe Isaiah should be starting with Smart being the 6th man, but right now in my mind Smart's play is the least of this team's worries and has been a HUGE bright spot.

I think he's already become a better point guard than Rondo ever was.

Your lying.

Well, me saying that I THINK player X is better than player Y and saying I am "lying" are two TOTALLY different things.

But back to the point, I think Smart has better court vision than Rondo did and is a better shooter and better defender.

[SHAQATTACK]

He seems to be sulking about something or maybe a combo of several issues he is dealing with , or personal problems has been dealt with.

I hate seeing such a good guy with a great future ...be down .....

[shrinkage36]

The next time we play, watch what Marcus does on offense. The plays they run have him going straight to the 3-point line and waiting there.

So how do you get better when you're just supposed to sit there? Occasionally he goes set and pick or two, then they send him right back to the 3-point line. Those are designed plays, I know this.

Watch how everyone moves with the ball and rarely gives it to smart unless they are forced too. Maybe it's a rookie thing, or maybe that's the way Stevens runs his team.

While others are taking a bunch of shots to get their points, Smart has to get his points with very little shots taken. If you want your rookie 6th round pick to show what he can do, you have to run the offense through him and allow him to do what he does.

Having said that, Stevens is trying to make the playoffs, and he's not going to gamble with a rookie learning while making that push.

But please watch Marcus on offense next game.

[mmmmm]

The next time we play, watch what Marcus does on offense. The plays they run have him going straight to the 3-point line and waiting there.

So how do you get better when you're just supposed to sit there? Occasionally he goes set and pick or two, then they send him right back to the 3-point line. Those are designed plays, I know this.

Watch how everyone moves with the ball and rarely gives it to smart unless they are forced too. Maybe it's a rookie thing, or maybe that's the way Stevens runs his team.

While others are taking a bunch of shots to get their points, Smart has to get his points with very little shots taken. If you want your rookie 6th round pick to show what he can do, you have to run the offense through him and allow him to do what he does.

Having said that, Stevens is trying to make the playoffs, and he's not going to gamble with a rookie learning while making that push.

But please watch Marcus on offense next game.

I think that reduced role is a reflection of their reduced expectations.   The only remaining regular rotation guy who gets more shots per possession AND has a lower scoring efficiency (i.e., TS% or however you want to measure it) than Marcus is Evan Turner.   So arguably, he's the only guy who is taking shots that should instead go to Marcus.  But barely.   Both have a low, sub-50 TS% (48.4% for Smart, 48.2% for ET) and neither is helping this team by taking shots.

Evan should also not be starting.

[sed522002]

Smart isn't playing well enough to earn more minutes.   He's become a huge albatross on offense for the starters right now.

Arguably, he shouldn't even be starting at this point.

Blame it on the 'rookie wall' if you want.  And I'm not saying that Smart doesn't have a great future ahead of him.  But right now, he is part of the problem with our starters.

Are we serious about trying to make the playoffs or not?  If not, then whatever, might as well tank our way into the 9th pick (still within reach).   But if we are, then why the heck isn't Thomas starting?

I don't see how that's the case. Every time I see Smart, he hustles on both ends of the floor and plays his as* off.

Certainly you could make the argument that maybe Isaiah should be starting with Smart being the 6th man, but right now in my mind Smart's play is the least of this team's worries and has been a HUGE bright spot.

I think he's already become a better point guard than Rondo ever was.

Your lying.

Well, me saying that I THINK player X is better than player Y and saying I am "lying" are two TOTALLY different things.

But back to the point, I think Smart has better court vision than Rondo did and is a better shooter and better defender.

Are you saying better court vision than Rondo had when he was a Rookie or better court vision than Rondo has currently because...um no  ... lol.

[MBunge]

The next time we play, watch what Marcus does on offense. The plays they run have him going straight to the 3-point line and waiting there.

So how do you get better when you're just supposed to sit there? Occasionally he goes set and pick or two, then they send him right back to the 3-point line. Those are designed plays, I know this.

Watch how everyone moves with the ball and rarely gives it to smart unless they are forced too. Maybe it's a rookie thing, or maybe that's the way Stevens runs his team.

While others are taking a bunch of shots to get their points, Smart has to get his points with very little shots taken. If you want your rookie 6th round pick to show what he can do, you have to run the offense through him and allow him to do what he does.

Having said that, Stevens is trying to make the playoffs, and he's not going to gamble with a rookie learning while making that push.

But please watch Marcus on offense next game.

Marcus is shooting less than Jae Crowder while simultaneously shooting way more from 3 than 2, even though he was a poor 3 point shooter in college.  Now, it's possible that's all due to how Smart is playing but when you consider that Stevens seemed content to watch Sully jacking up threes, it seems more likely that Smart is being limited by the offensive role he's being asked to play.

Mike

[droopdog7]

The next time we play, watch what Marcus does on offense. The plays they run have him going straight to the 3-point line and waiting there.

So how do you get better when you're just supposed to sit there? Occasionally he goes set and pick or two, then they send him right back to the 3-point line. Those are designed plays, I know this.

Watch how everyone moves with the ball and rarely gives it to smart unless they are forced too. Maybe it's a rookie thing, or maybe that's the way Stevens runs his team.

While others are taking a bunch of shots to get their points, Smart has to get his points with very little shots taken. If you want your rookie 6th round pick to show what he can do, you have to run the offense through him and allow him to do what he does.

Having said that, Stevens is trying to make the playoffs, and he's not going to gamble with a rookie learning while making that push.

But please watch Marcus on offense next game.

I'm sorry but there is a reason that Marcus is in those positions.  And, it has everything to do with what kind of offensive player he is. 

It is the good offensive players that have plays drawn for them.  It is the bad offensive players that must fill in and get the scraps when they can.  The latter is Marcus Smart.

[littleteapot]

I'm sorry but there is a reason that Marcus is in those positions.  And, it has everything to do with what kind of offensive player he is. 

It is the good offensive players that have plays drawn for them.  It is the bad offensive players that must fill in and get the scraps when they can.  The latter is Marcus Smart.

You should have someone stand behind the 3 point line because they are good a shooting 3s.

[D.o.s.]

I'm sorry but there is a reason that Marcus is in those positions.  And, it has everything to do with what kind of offensive player he is. 

It is the good offensive players that have plays drawn for them.  It is the bad offensive players that must fill in and get the scraps when they can.  The latter is Marcus Smart.

You should have someone stand behind the 3 point line because they are good a shooting 3s.

Failing that, you move him out there to prevent the floor being clogged by drawing his defender away from the paint.

The next time we play, watch what Marcus does on offense. The plays they run have him going straight to the 3-point line and waiting there.

So how do you get better when you're just supposed to sit there? Occasionally he goes set and pick or two, then they send him right back to the 3-point line. Those are designed plays, I know this.

Watch how everyone moves with the ball and rarely gives it to smart unless they are forced too. Maybe it's a rookie thing, or maybe that's the way Stevens runs his team.

While others are taking a bunch of shots to get their points, Smart has to get his points with very little shots taken. If you want your rookie 6th round pick to show what he can do, you have to run the offense through him and allow him to do what he does.

Having said that, Stevens is trying to make the playoffs, and he's not going to gamble with a rookie learning while making that push.

But please watch Marcus on offense next game.

I think that reduced role is a reflection of their reduced expectations.   The only remaining regular rotation guy who gets more shots per possession AND has a lower scoring efficiency (i.e., TS% or however you want to measure it) than Marcus is Evan Turner.   So arguably, he's the only guy who is taking shots that should instead go to Marcus.  But barely.   Both have a low, sub-50 TS% (48.4% for Smart, 48.2% for ET) and neither is helping this team by taking shots.

Evan should also not be starting.

Well said.