Author Topic: this is two games in a row that he has sat zeller  (Read 4558 times)

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Re: this is two games in a row that he has sat zeller
« Reply #15 on: March 28, 2015, 03:25:44 PM »

Offline rocknrollforyoursoul

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The sky is falling, Zeller sat out!

Zeller has not played a lot at the end of games in the last month.   Stevens played him to start both halves.   He ofted goes with the hot hands, if Zeller was hot, he'd play more rest assured.

Against Miami, Zeller was 4-5 for 10 points, with 8 rebounds, 2 assists, and a block, yet played only 19 minutes. This is a clear case of Stevens violating his own "hot hand" theory.
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Re: this is two games in a row that he has sat zeller
« Reply #16 on: March 28, 2015, 03:27:26 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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This is why drafting Myles Turner is a bad idea. Lyles  would be better
que?
I assume hes alluding to the mobility issues of Turner and how he wont be able to hedge guys on the perimeter.

I dont love Lyles because from what Ive seen he thinks hes a two gaurd and I do like Turner because I think he gives us shot blocking and an interrior presence and can also contribute to our space and pace offense with his good jumper.

That being said, I had not considered this aspect of his game or anyones for that matter.
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Re: this is two games in a row that he has sat zeller
« Reply #17 on: March 28, 2015, 03:33:23 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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This is why drafting Myles Turner is a bad idea. Lyles  would be better
que?
I assume hes alluding to the mobility issues of Turner and how he wont be able to hedge guys on the perimeter.

I dont love Lyles because from what Ive seen he thinks hes a two gaurd and I do like Turner because I think he gives us shot blocking and an interrior presence and can also contribute to our space and pace offense with his good jumper.

That being said, I had not considered this aspect of his game or anyones for that matter.

well it needs to be considered.  We need to try to draft the best available talent that will be there to finish games.

Turner might some games but for alot games will be on the bench like Zeller. Zeller is more mobile and he still sits on the bench in the 4th.

Lyles , Harrell and even Jarell Martin will be able to replace Bass and or play late in games bc of their "fit" under CBS system

Re: this is two games in a row that he has sat zeller
« Reply #18 on: March 28, 2015, 03:36:49 PM »

Offline jpotter33

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Mobility issues, too. A lot of the teams we've been facing lately have either been going small or had a 5 out there that could stretch the floor. Many times Zeller got burnt because he can't guard out on the perimeter.
wait! are you trying to tell me that a logical and rational explanation exists for not playing zeller?? well, if you keep doing this, how the heck am i supposed to keep believing conspiracy theories or follow assumptions of incompetence by others that make me look good?  ;)

Haha sorry to burst your bubble  :P

Re: this is two games in a row that he has sat zeller
« Reply #19 on: March 28, 2015, 03:51:22 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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This is why drafting Myles Turner is a bad idea. Lyles  would be better
que?
I assume hes alluding to the mobility issues of Turner and how he wont be able to hedge guys on the perimeter.

I dont love Lyles because from what Ive seen he thinks hes a two gaurd and I do like Turner because I think he gives us shot blocking and an interrior presence and can also contribute to our space and pace offense with his good jumper.

That being said, I had not considered this aspect of his game or anyones for that matter.

well it needs to be considered.  We need to try to draft the best available talent that will be there to finish games.

Turner might some games but for alot games will be on the bench like Zeller. Zeller is more mobile and he still sits on the bench in the 4th.

Lyles , Harrell and even Jarell Martin will be able to replace Bass and or play late in games bc of their "fit" under CBS system
I absolutely agree that it needs to be considered but Id rather have toughness, rebounding and shot blocking than the ability to switch on pick and roll. Lyles from what Ive seen thinks hes a 2 guard. That being said, I havent seen much of either of them. I pretty much dont watch Kentucky games and Turner played pretty limited minutes. My concern with Lyles is that he is another soft 4 who is bad at defense (according to the scouting reports Ive seen, which are largely outdated, this could well not be the case any more). Adding another one of those seems like a lateral move unless he has proven himself to be better than the soft stretch 4s we have right now (Kevin Love)
Quote from: George W. Bush
Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Re: this is two games in a row that he has sat zeller
« Reply #20 on: March 28, 2015, 03:58:21 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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This is why drafting Myles Turner is a bad idea. Lyles  would be better
que?
I assume hes alluding to the mobility issues of Turner and how he wont be able to hedge guys on the perimeter.

I dont love Lyles because from what Ive seen he thinks hes a two gaurd and I do like Turner because I think he gives us shot blocking and an interrior presence and can also contribute to our space and pace offense with his good jumper.

That being said, I had not considered this aspect of his game or anyones for that matter.

well it needs to be considered.  We need to try to draft the best available talent that will be there to finish games.

Turner might some games but for alot games will be on the bench like Zeller. Zeller is more mobile and he still sits on the bench in the 4th.

Lyles , Harrell and even Jarell Martin will be able to replace Bass and or play late in games bc of their "fit" under CBS system
I absolutely agree that it needs to be considered but Id rather have toughness, rebounding and shot blocking than the ability to switch on pick and roll. Lyles from what Ive seen thinks hes a 2 guard. That being said, I havent seen much of either of them. I pretty much dont watch Kentucky games and Turner played pretty limited minutes. My concern with Lyles is that he is another soft 4 who is bad at defense (according to the scouting reports Ive seen, which are largely outdated, this could well not be the case any more). Adding another one of those seems like a lateral move unless he has proven himself to be better than the soft stretch 4s we have right now (Kevin Love)

Lyles is closer to KO than is to a Ibaka for example

Not sure if he thinks he is a 2 guard but lately has been playing as a SF and has been doing a decent job.  He is skilled for his height and has a 7'3 wingspan that can only help with rebounding/altering shots. But yeah he is not that "rim" protector we could add

Harrell is like a slightly taller/stronger/longer wingspan/reach Crowder.  Doesn't bring alot of skills to the table but can guard multiple positions, above the rim guy that is a capable shot blocker

Turner imo would be a better fit for a team that likes to play half court/triangle offense.

CBS is here to stay and he is not going to alter his system bc of Turner. He is not going to alter the system for anyone chosen around 13-15. So the pick has to adapt to the system/fit the system(ideal). Alter the system for a guy like Okafor yes, not Turner

Re: this is two games in a row that he has sat zeller
« Reply #21 on: March 28, 2015, 04:16:43 PM »

Offline mahcus smaht

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This is why drafting Myles Turner is a bad idea. Lyles  would be better
que?
I assume hes alluding to the mobility issues of Turner and how he wont be able to hedge guys on the perimeter.

I dont love Lyles because from what Ive seen he thinks hes a two gaurd and I do like Turner because I think he gives us shot blocking and an interrior presence and can also contribute to our space and pace offense with his good jumper.

That being said, I had not considered this aspect of his game or anyones for that matter.

well it needs to be considered.  We need to try to draft the best available talent that will be there to finish games.

Turner might some games but for alot games will be on the bench like Zeller. Zeller is more mobile and he still sits on the bench in the 4th.

Lyles , Harrell and even Jarell Martin will be able to replace Bass and or play late in games bc of their "fit" under CBS system
I absolutely agree that it needs to be considered but Id rather have toughness, rebounding and shot blocking than the ability to switch on pick and roll. Lyles from what Ive seen thinks hes a 2 guard. That being said, I havent seen much of either of them. I pretty much dont watch Kentucky games and Turner played pretty limited minutes. My concern with Lyles is that he is another soft 4 who is bad at defense (according to the scouting reports Ive seen, which are largely outdated, this could well not be the case any more). Adding another one of those seems like a lateral move unless he has proven himself to be better than the soft stretch 4s we have right now (Kevin Love)

Lyles is closer to KO than is to a Ibaka for example

Not sure if he thinks he is a 2 guard but lately has been playing as a SF and has been doing a decent job.  He is skilled for his height and has a 7'3 wingspan that can only help with rebounding/altering shots. But yeah he is not that "rim" protector we could add

Harrell is like a slightly taller/stronger/longer wingspan/reach Crowder.  Doesn't bring alot of skills to the table but can guard multiple positions, above the rim guy that is a capable shot blocker

Turner imo would be a better fit for a team that likes to play half court/triangle offense.

CBS is here to stay and he is not going to alter his system bc of Turner. He is not going to alter the system for anyone chosen around 13-15. So the pick has to adapt to the system/fit the system(ideal). Alter the system for a guy like Okafor yes, not Turner
I also agree that hedging need to be considered.
I havent seen enough of Lyles to make to big of a statement on him, but I think to your last point, you should try to go BPA.
Regardless of system of position. That being said, dont go completely BPA. If the C's see Turner as the superior prospect but not a system guy, I dont care. Go with Turner. On the other hand if they are equal or at least close to equal, go with Lyles.

Re: this is two games in a row that he has sat zeller
« Reply #22 on: March 28, 2015, 04:47:37 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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Tuner imo is not a superior prospect to Lyles.

This Turner hype has to do with his height and long wingspan. Plus decent shooting touch.

Outside of these things Turner has work to do. 

Lyles has better handles, just as good of a shooter if not better,  more mobile, better passing skills.  Just doesn't have 7'4 wingspan and 9'2 reach Turner has

Re: this is two games in a row that he has sat zeller
« Reply #23 on: March 28, 2015, 05:23:06 PM »

Offline positivitize

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There's something weird going on. Marcus Smart is suddenly not shooting, but he's been one of our better 3-point shooters. Zeller is suddenly not playing, even though he's our only center and he's not a bad player. Jae Crowder, who is well known for his ability to move without the ball, make good passes, and take efficient shots, is suddenly taking isos on offense.

All three of these are deliberate.

Add to this a new lineup where we're inexplicably playing Crowder at the 4 and Bass at the 5.

We got a lot of friendly whistles last night; if I was a Knicks fan who actually wanted them to win I'd have been irate.

No one really responded to this, but I think there are some good points here. I've noticed these changes too. TP!
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Re: this is two games in a row that he has sat zeller
« Reply #24 on: March 28, 2015, 06:30:30 PM »

Offline MBunge

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People have pointed out some of the reasons for not playing Zeller, but I suspect the little bit of success we've had going small has caused Stevens to fall in love with the tactic.  We were seeing a lot of Sully at center to close out games before he got hurt.

Mike

Re: this is two games in a row that he has sat zeller
« Reply #25 on: March 28, 2015, 07:31:10 PM »

Offline mahcus smaht

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Tuner imo is not a superior prospect to Lyles.

This Turner hype has to do with his height and long wingspan. Plus decent shooting touch.

Outside of these things Turner has work to do. 

Lyles has better handles, just as good of a shooter if not better,  more mobile, better passing skills.  Just doesn't have 7'4 wingspan and 9'2 reach Turner has
Its hard to compare because they are so different and they play different positions.

Re: this is two games in a row that he has sat zeller
« Reply #26 on: March 28, 2015, 07:55:38 PM »

Offline ImShakHeIsShaq

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The sky is falling, Zeller sat out!

Zeller has not played a lot at the end of games in the last month.   Stevens played him to start both halves.   He ofted goes with the hot hands, if Zeller was hot, he'd play more rest assured.

Against Miami, Zeller was 4-5 for 10 points, with 8 rebounds, 2 assists, and a block, yet played only 19 minutes. This is a clear case of Stevens violating his own "hot hand" theory.

This doesn't prove that wrong or that he violated it. If I remember it, he did that in the first half. I remember questioning why he and AB didn't take another shot in the 2nd half (AB took 1 w/ secs left in game). No one had much of a hot hand so CBS tried to find any group that would work. Zeller wasn't helping and he wasn't scoring/shooting... CBS just went in a different direction.
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Re: this is two games in a row that he has sat zeller
« Reply #27 on: March 29, 2015, 12:23:47 AM »

Offline hagar55voa

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it's absolutely a joke that Zeller isn't playing 25 to 30 minutes a game...He's been doing everything well, but gets benched game after game...Makes me sick...