Is Khris Middleton the Celtics most likely attainable free agent this o/season?

[chambers]

Wasn't AB a 40% 3pt shooter his contract year?

Offensively, Middleton is a taller version of AB: can't really create his own shot, can't get to the free throw line, needs a ton of shots to score his points. He's exactly the type of player I'd like us to stay away from.

That's very narrow sighted and a pretty big insult to Khris Middleton.
Middleton has had a very good defensive year but the reason he's so hot on the market is because of his incredible shooting and efficiency in a 3 and D system. He's much more versatile than Bradley and his dribble drive game is world's apart. He's really only just scratched the surface of his mid range dribble game (ala Paul Pierce style) and if he continues to work on his ball handling and footwork could be an All Star candidate.
His first two playoff game percentages were bad FG at 40% shooting but he's three were great at 38.5% so far against a tough Jimmy Butler thrown in there at times.

Post All Star break:

17.5 points
4.7 rebounds
2.9 assists
3 point FG% 44% attempting 4 shots per game (shot 40.7% for entire season-better than anyone we currently have)
total FG % 45.2% on 14.5 attempts a game
Free throw percentage 86% for season
8th this season in real plus minus in the league
top 5 three pointers made in the last 2 seasons of all NBA players and he's 23!
compare those to Avery Bradley and you'll be shocked how much better Middleton is.

[PhoSita]

How about instead of committing a bunch of money to sign Middleton, we try and trade for Danilo Gallinari or Wilson Chandler, or even both?

Both have legit wing size and demonstrated scoring ability, with the positional and skillset diversity Stevens prizes.

They're both expiring contracts next year and are young enough that they might be worth signing beyond next year.  I imagine it would be possible to trade for either or both without giving up all that much.

Gallinari is solid, but Wilson Chandler is nothing special.  Chandler is closer to Evan Turner in value than he is to Khris Middleton.  I'd say Gallinari is worth his current contract while Chandler is overpaid.

Wilson Chandler makes $4 MM a year less than Gallo, I don't think either is overpaid.

They're both on the last year on their current deals next season so it won't really matter.

[wdleehi]

I just don't like the number being thrown out there.  He looks like a very useful role player, but I do not see the offense creator. 



He is a player I would see spending more to add to a team with it star core already in place.  For a team like the Celtics, I could see signing him at slightly more then good player money, but not this near max money being thrown around.  That is how rebuilding teams choke off their flexibility as they try to improve.

[jonaslopes]

How about instead of committing a bunch of money to sign Middleton, we try and trade for Danilo Gallinari or Wilson Chandler, or even both?

Both have legit wing size and demonstrated scoring ability, with the positional and skillset diversity Stevens prizes.

They're both expiring contracts next year and are young enough that they might be worth signing beyond next year.  I imagine it would be possible to trade for either or both without giving up all that much.

Gallinari would be a very nice fit here.

[Ilikesports17]

I just don't like the number being thrown out there.  He looks like a very useful role player, but I do not see the offense creator. 



He is a player I would see spending more to add to a team with it star core already in place.  For a team like the Celtics, I could see signing him at slightly more then good player money, but not this near max money being thrown around.  That is how rebuilding teams choke off their flexibility as they try to improve.

I agree to a point. the key is to not pay him for his potential.

The point in signing a guy like Middleton is that he is young and still improving. I would sign Middleton in hopes that he eventually goes from decent starter to very good starter. however if you pay him very good starter money and he ends up staying at decent starter youve screwed yourself.

So long as everyone is on good contracts you will never lack flexibility. I dont think IT4 or AB are hurting flexibility because I think they could both be moved for a late #1 in the blink of an eye.

Now if we pay Middleton 15 million and he stays at his current level, now you are killing flexibility.

[chambers]

I just don't like the number being thrown out there.  He looks like a very useful role player, but I do not see the offense creator. 



He is a player I would see spending more to add to a team with it star core already in place.  For a team like the Celtics, I could see signing him at slightly more then good player money, but not this near max money being thrown around.  That is how rebuilding teams choke off their flexibility as they try to improve.

I agree to a point. the key is to not pay him for his potential.

The point in signing a guy like Middleton is that he is young and still improving. I would sign Middleton in hopes that he eventually goes from decent starter to very good starter. however if you pay him very good starter money and he ends up staying at decent starter youve screwed yourself.

So long as everyone is on good contracts you will never lack flexibility. I dont think IT4 or AB are hurting flexibility because I think they could both be moved for a late #1 in the blink of an eye.

Now if we pay Middleton 15 million and he stays at his current level, now you are killing flexibility.

But that's the point here;
are you really killing your future flexibility with a guy like Khris Middle taking $15 million of a 108 million dollar salary cap?
That's less of the cap than we paid Jeff Green AND he's got 2 years on once that number goes from 16% to 14.8%
15 million of the current cap is ALOT. 15 million could be a bargain deal for Middleton or it could be a perfectly valued deal. It's hard to see how this money is over HORRIBLE for us  because we'll still have 93 million dollars to go and get more stars!

That's right, $93 million AFTER securing Middleton on our roster with two remaining years on his deal and his bird rights.

[wdleehi]

I just don't like the number being thrown out there.  He looks like a very useful role player, but I do not see the offense creator. 



He is a player I would see spending more to add to a team with it star core already in place.  For a team like the Celtics, I could see signing him at slightly more then good player money, but not this near max money being thrown around.  That is how rebuilding teams choke off their flexibility as they try to improve.

I agree to a point. the key is to not pay him for his potential.

The point in signing a guy like Middleton is that he is young and still improving. I would sign Middleton in hopes that he eventually goes from decent starter to very good starter. however if you pay him very good starter money and he ends up staying at decent starter youve screwed yourself.

So long as everyone is on good contracts you will never lack flexibility. I dont think IT4 or AB are hurting flexibility because I think they could both be moved for a late #1 in the blink of an eye.

Now if we pay Middleton 15 million and he stays at his current level, now you are killing flexibility.

But that's the point here;
are you really killing your future flexibility with a guy like Khris Middle taking $15 million of a 108 million dollar salary cap?
That's less of the cap than we paid Jeff Green AND he's got 2 years on once that number goes from 16% to 14.8%
15 million of the current cap is ALOT. 15 million could be a bargain deal for Middleton or it could be a perfectly valued deal. It's hard to see how this money is over HORRIBLE for us  because we'll still have 93 million dollars to go and get more stars!

That's right, $93 million AFTER securing Middleton on our roster with two remaining years on his deal and his bird rights.

Yes if the team overpays him vs. the current salary structure.  Teams that can hammer out long term deals based on the current structure will have an advantage when the cap explodes. 

[Ilikesports17]

I just don't like the number being thrown out there.  He looks like a very useful role player, but I do not see the offense creator. 



He is a player I would see spending more to add to a team with it star core already in place.  For a team like the Celtics, I could see signing him at slightly more then good player money, but not this near max money being thrown around.  That is how rebuilding teams choke off their flexibility as they try to improve.

I agree to a point. the key is to not pay him for his potential.

The point in signing a guy like Middleton is that he is young and still improving. I would sign Middleton in hopes that he eventually goes from decent starter to very good starter. however if you pay him very good starter money and he ends up staying at decent starter youve screwed yourself.

So long as everyone is on good contracts you will never lack flexibility. I dont think IT4 or AB are hurting flexibility because I think they could both be moved for a late #1 in the blink of an eye.

Now if we pay Middleton 15 million and he stays at his current level, now you are killing flexibility.

But that's the point here;
are you really killing your future flexibility with a guy like Khris Middle taking $15 million of a 108 million dollar salary cap?
That's less of the cap than we paid Jeff Green AND he's got 2 years on once that number goes from 16% to 14.8%
15 million of the current cap is ALOT. 15 million could be a bargain deal for Middleton or it could be a perfectly valued deal. It's hard to see how this money is over HORRIBLE for us  because we'll still have 93 million dollars to go and get more stars!

That's right, $93 million AFTER securing Middleton on our roster with two remaining years on his deal and his bird rights.

Thats a bit unfair because you could sign him to a 30 million dollar deal ans still say you have 78 million to spend but thats still a huge overpay.

I mean 15 mill under the new cap is the equivalent of signing him to about a 10 million dollar deal under the old cap. If he doesnt play to that level which is entirely possible. He could be having a classic contract year, maybe he never progresses maybe he loses the defensive tenacity that makes him valuable who knows its entirely possible. Now its hard to move him and you have to move a guy like AB or IT or KO or Sully or whoever it is that is outplaying their contract to create that flexibility.

Id happily sign Middleton to any number under 15mil, anything over is risky to me.

Not apocalyptic, not "HORRIBLE"  per se just a risk that could end up hurting you in the future.

It is never good to overpay guys unless they are the final piece of the puzzle. I see 14.8% of the cap for this guy as an overpay.

That being said, I have 100% 95% trust in Danny, and whether it is in the draft via trade or through siging a guy like Middleton, If Danny thinks he is gonna be a star then pull the trigger on him go all the way up to 16 or 17 million if you think he can be a 18ppg guy who locks down the opposing 3.

I feel the same way in the draft. If Ainge sees Hezonja or what have you as a superstar than I have no problem with him overpaying to get into the top 10.

[chambers]

There are some big blocks on the road to getting Middleton.
a the Bucks likely match anything
b other teams will be clamoring to offer him max deals like the Suns, Raptors (wow he'd be nice next to DeRozan), Knicks, Hornets, Minnesota, Rockets etc...

[Evantime34]

I just don't like the number being thrown out there.  He looks like a very useful role player, but I do not see the offense creator. 



He is a player I would see spending more to add to a team with it star core already in place.  For a team like the Celtics, I could see signing him at slightly more then good player money, but not this near max money being thrown around.  That is how rebuilding teams choke off their flexibility as they try to improve.

I think you are about to see the market correct for good 3 point shooters. Kyle Korver isn't a creator either but a lot of what the Hawks did to become the best team (record wise) in the East depends on his ability to shoot and space the floor. In this era of floor spacing I think it isn't necessary that a player be a creator to get paid big money.

My opinion is that when the cap explodes the value of cap flexibility will be greatly diminished when compared to its value now. In two or three years I think the value of Middleton at 12-15 will be worth more than the cap space because a lot of teams won't be able to find people to use a salary slot of the same size.

[kozlodoev]

Wasn't AB a 40% 3pt shooter his contract year?

Offensively, Middleton is a taller version of AB: can't really create his own shot, can't get to the free throw line, needs a ton of shots to score his points. He's exactly the type of player I'd like us to stay away from.

That's very narrow sighted and a pretty big insult to Khris Middleton.
Middleton has had a very good defensive year but the reason he's so hot on the market is because of his incredible shooting and efficiency in a 3 and D system. He's much more versatile than Bradley and his dribble drive game is world's apart. He's really only just scratched the surface of his mid range dribble game (ala Paul Pierce style) and if he continues to work on his ball handling and footwork could be an All Star candidate.
His first two playoff game percentages were bad FG at 40% shooting but he's three were great at 38.5% so far against a tough Jimmy Butler thrown in there at times.

Post All Star break:

17.5 points
4.7 rebounds
2.9 assists
3 point FG% 44% attempting 4 shots per game (shot 40.7% for entire season-better than anyone we currently have)
total FG % 45.2% on 14.5 attempts a game
Free throw percentage 86% for season
8th this season in real plus minus in the league
top 5 three pointers made in the last 2 seasons of all NBA players and he's 23!
compare those to Avery Bradley and you'll be shocked how much better Middleton is.

In fact, he scored 16.8 ppg post all-star break. In 35 mpg and on 14.1 shots. Still couldn't get to the free throw line (3.2 attempts per game is not great at all). Sure, you can go out and break the bank for him and his "real plus minus" (still waiting for a coherent  explanation of what this is and why it is a reliable measure of anything). Then sit back and observe "Trying to make Jeff Green your primary scorer, part 2".

[Evantime34]

Wasn't AB a 40% 3pt shooter his contract year?

Offensively, Middleton is a taller version of AB: can't really create his own shot, can't get to the free throw line, needs a ton of shots to score his points. He's exactly the type of player I'd like us to stay away from.

That's very narrow sighted and a pretty big insult to Khris Middleton.
Middleton has had a very good defensive year but the reason he's so hot on the market is because of his incredible shooting and efficiency in a 3 and D system. He's much more versatile than Bradley and his dribble drive game is world's apart. He's really only just scratched the surface of his mid range dribble game (ala Paul Pierce style) and if he continues to work on his ball handling and footwork could be an All Star candidate.
His first two playoff game percentages were bad FG at 40% shooting but he's three were great at 38.5% so far against a tough Jimmy Butler thrown in there at times.

Post All Star break:

17.5 points
4.7 rebounds
2.9 assists
3 point FG% 44% attempting 4 shots per game (shot 40.7% for entire season-better than anyone we currently have)
total FG % 45.2% on 14.5 attempts a game
Free throw percentage 86% for season
8th this season in real plus minus in the league
top 5 three pointers made in the last 2 seasons of all NBA players and he's 23!
compare those to Avery Bradley and you'll be shocked how much better Middleton is.

In fact, he scored 16.8 ppg post all-star break. In 35 mpg and on 14.1 shots. Still couldn't get to the free throw line (3.2 attempts per game is not great at all). Sure, you can go out and break the bank for him and his "real plus minus" (still waiting for a coherent  explanation of what this is and why it is a reliable measure of anything). Then sit back and observe "Trying to make Jeff Green your primary scorer, part 2".

I think there is a difference between Bradley's 40% in a contract year and Middleton being a career 40% 3 point shooter. As to a the Jeff Green comparison, Middleton effectively comes off screens and does a better job moving to open spots off ball movement to free himself for a jumper. Middleton also has been a considerably better defender than Green this year.

[Celts Fan 508]

How about instead of committing a bunch of money to sign Middleton, we try and trade for Danilo Gallinari or Wilson Chandler, or even both?

Both have legit wing size and demonstrated scoring ability, with the positional and skillset diversity Stevens prizes.

They're both expiring contracts next year and are young enough that they might be worth signing beyond next year.  I imagine it would be possible to trade for either or both without giving up all that much.

I have been beating the Gallinari drum for a while now on this board.  If Denver decides to tank I think we could get him for the Rondo trade exception and a protected first round pick and/or a second. 

Another option could be Gallinari for the Rondo Exception, the Clippers pick and the T-Wolves pick(s). With a separate part of the trade being Wallace goes to Denver for the McGee exception and a second. 

That second option would extend both teams exceptions another year while the Celts can still sign a free agent this summer and Denver gets better picks for agreeing to take on Wallace's contract for the season.

[jonaslopes]

How about instead of committing a bunch of money to sign Middleton, we try and trade for Danilo Gallinari or Wilson Chandler, or even both?

Both have legit wing size and demonstrated scoring ability, with the positional and skillset diversity Stevens prizes.

They're both expiring contracts next year and are young enough that they might be worth signing beyond next year.  I imagine it would be possible to trade for either or both without giving up all that much.

I have been beating the Gallinari drum for a while now on this board.  If Denver decides to tank I think we could get him for the Rondo trade exception and a protected first round pick and/or a second. 

Another option could be Gallinari for the Rondo Exception, the Clippers pick and the T-Wolves pick(s). With a separate part of the trade being Wallace goes to Denver for the McGee exception and a second. 

That second option would extend both teams exceptions another year while the Celts can still sign a free agent this summer and Denver gets better picks for agreeing to take on Wallace's contract for the season.

Seriously, Gallinari would flourish under Stevens. Great fit.

[Celtics4ever]

I too, think he would fit as he can spread the floor.