Is Khris Middleton the Celtics most likely attainable free agent this o/season?

[Evantime34]

maybe Middleton and one max guy is enough to make the team a contender.

Sometimes it would be nice to live in Candyland like this, how are the cotton candy trees?

I don't believe Stevens envisions a team with 1-2 or 3 stars surrounded by role players who's job it is to facilitate the stars.
I believe he incisions a team of equals who win together.
So far it has worked.
The next step is to upgrade the talent across the board.
Ideally 6 or 7 "3rd best" players, each of which would be at least good defenders and willing passers. each with an above average talent, be it scoring, distributing, 3pt shooting, rim protection, perimeter d...
KM is an ideal pick up in this system, add an athletic shot blocker (who has an additional above average skill and a little more of fence and Stevens would have the team he's looking to build.

I hope not, because such a team maxes out in the second round. Teams stacked with third options, but no stars, don't win titles.

It's pretty difficult to say where a team as young as ours currently maxes out. Adding a guy like Middleton at the max doesn't cap our ceiling as a team because our young players could improve and become stars (or improve to the point they should be traded for stars)

[Roy H.]

maybe Middleton and one max guy is enough to make the team a contender.

Sometimes it would be nice to live in Candyland like this, how are the cotton candy trees?

I don't believe Stevens envisions a team with 1-2 or 3 stars surrounded by role players who's job it is to facilitate the stars.
I believe he incisions a team of equals who win together.
So far it has worked.
The next step is to upgrade the talent across the board.
Ideally 6 or 7 "3rd best" players, each of which would be at least good defenders and willing passers. each with an above average talent, be it scoring, distributing, 3pt shooting, rim protection, perimeter d...
KM is an ideal pick up in this system, add an athletic shot blocker (who has an additional above average skill and a little more of fence and Stevens would have the team he's looking to build.

I hope not, because such a team maxes out in the second round. Teams stacked with third options, but no stars, don't win titles.

It's pretty difficult to say where a team as young as ours currently maxes out. Adding a guy like Middleton at the max doesn't cap our ceiling as a team because our young players could improve and become stars (or improve to the point they should be traded for stars)

I don't think that any of our guys has superstar potential. The premise was that Stevens wants a team full of third options. That's a recipe for mediocrity.

Stars win. Teams full of role players don't. NBA history is pretty clear on this point. Similarly, spending large chunks of your cap on role players, without stars being in place, is a great way to ensure you never reach the next level.

I just don't understand the "the cap is going up, so let's massively overpay role players" argument.  You spend money on stars, period. Paying $15+ million to a guy who is worth $6 to $8 million is lunacy.

[Csfan1984]

maybe Middleton and one max guy is enough to make the team a contender.

Sometimes it would be nice to live in Candyland like this, how are the cotton candy trees?

What is your issue? Seriously! You totally took that out of context to make me look like a homer green teamer. I explained before hand I believe team needs two stars. Yet IF they do well against Cavs "maybe Middleton and one max guy  ....".

[byennie]

I just don't understand the "the cap is going up, so let's massively overpay role players" argument.  You spend money on stars, period. Paying $15+ million to a guy who is worth $6 to $8 million is lunacy.

I actually agree with this, but I also think it's lunacy to say Middleton is a $6-$8M guy. Parson, Hayward and Thompson are all comps for this stage of his career, and those guys were $15M+ contracts in the "old" cap situation. 23 year-old players who shoot 40% from 3PT, defend, and are killing it with the analytics crowd are worth much more than that.  You give him 35 minutes and 20% usage (a slight uptick), and even at his current skillset that's a 17 points, 6 boards, 3 assists, 2 steals player with high efficiency and good defense. Not a role player making just above the MLE.

[byennie]

Stars win. Teams full of role players don't. NBA history is pretty clear on this point. Similarly, spending large chunks of your cap on role players, without stars being in place, is a great way to ensure you never reach the next level.

I don't think anyone is suggesting we want *zero* stars. Duncan was the only "max" player on the Spurs for many years. Detroit won a title with a balanced team. Golden State has a good chance this year, and they did exactly what you are arguing against - gave Thompson the big bucks when others questioned the logic. But you can't just tread water waiting for a superstar, unless you're Philly...!

[Snakehead]

I just don't understand the "the cap is going up, so let's massively overpay role players" argument.  You spend money on stars, period. Paying $15+ million to a guy who is worth $6 to $8 million is lunacy.

I'm not sure how I fall quite but the argument with Middleton would be that he's worth that actually.  Statistically he is a top 5 player in several categories and is still young and improving.

Also, appears the cap is going to skyrocket so the numbers that look silly to now might not at all soon.  Might just be the norm or even a deal.  Avery, for example, got a deal some thought was bad but now will certainly be a steal.

Stars win. Teams full of role players don't. NBA history is pretty clear on this point. Similarly, spending large chunks of your cap on role players, without stars being in place, is a great way to ensure you never reach the next level.

I don't think anyone is suggesting we want *zero* stars. Duncan was the only "max" player on the Spurs for many years. Detroit won a title with a balanced team. Golden State has a good chance this year, and they did exactly what you are arguing against - gave Thompson the big bucks when others questioned the logic. But you can't just tread water waiting for a superstar, unless you're Philly...!

Curry is a superstar and Klay is possibly only a year or two behind, how he looks to me.

[LooseCannon]

maybe Middleton and one max guy is enough to make the team a contender.

Sometimes it would be nice to live in Candyland like this, how are the cotton candy trees?

I don't believe Stevens envisions a team with 1-2 or 3 stars surrounded by role players who's job it is to facilitate the stars.
I believe he incisions a team of equals who win together.
So far it has worked.
The next step is to upgrade the talent across the board.
Ideally 6 or 7 "3rd best" players, each of which would be at least good defenders and willing passers. each with an above average talent, be it scoring, distributing, 3pt shooting, rim protection, perimeter d...
KM is an ideal pick up in this system, add an athletic shot blocker (who has an additional above average skill and a little more of fence and Stevens would have the team he's looking to build.

I hope not, because such a team maxes out in the second round. Teams stacked with third options, but no stars, don't win titles.

It's pretty difficult to say where a team as young as ours currently maxes out. Adding a guy like Middleton at the max doesn't cap our ceiling as a team because our young players could improve and become stars (or improve to the point they should be traded for stars)

I don't think that any of our guys has superstar potential. The premise was that Stevens wants a team full of third options. That's a recipe for mediocrity.

Stars win. Teams full of role players don't. NBA history is pretty clear on this point. Similarly, spending large chunks of your cap on role players, without stars being in place, is a great way to ensure you never reach the next level.

I just don't understand the "the cap is going up, so let's massively overpay role players" argument.  You spend money on stars, period. Paying $15+ million to a guy who is worth $6 to $8 million is lunacy.

What I can see the Celtics doing is going after players who would be considered star-caliber players according to advanced metrics, but who will be under-appreciated by Charles Barkley type anti-statheads unless they actually win a title.  (And not even then.  Some people still don't think Kawhi Leonard is a max contract guy who is good enough for the Spurs to build around post-Duncan.)

[tazzmaniac]

maybe Middleton and one max guy is enough to make the team a contender.

Sometimes it would be nice to live in Candyland like this, how are the cotton candy trees?

I don't believe Stevens envisions a team with 1-2 or 3 stars surrounded by role players who's job it is to facilitate the stars.
I believe he incisions a team of equals who win together.
So far it has worked.
The next step is to upgrade the talent across the board.
Ideally 6 or 7 "3rd best" players, each of which would be at least good defenders and willing passers. each with an above average talent, be it scoring, distributing, 3pt shooting, rim protection, perimeter d...
KM is an ideal pick up in this system, add an athletic shot blocker (who has an additional above average skill and a little more of fence and Stevens would have the team he's looking to build.

I hope not, because such a team maxes out in the second round. Teams stacked with third options, but no stars, don't win titles.

It's pretty difficult to say where a team as young as ours currently maxes out. Adding a guy like Middleton at the max doesn't cap our ceiling as a team because our young players could improve and become stars (or improve to the point they should be traded for stars)

I don't think that any of our guys has superstar potential. The premise was that Stevens wants a team full of third options. That's a recipe for mediocrity.

Stars win. Teams full of role players don't. NBA history is pretty clear on this point. Similarly, spending large chunks of your cap on role players, without stars being in place, is a great way to ensure you never reach the next level.

I just don't understand the "the cap is going up, so let's massively overpay role players" argument.  You spend money on stars, period. Paying $15+ million to a guy who is worth $6 to $8 million is lunacy.

I agree that a team needs Stars to win a championship.  Ainge needs to be focused on getting a Star but who knows when a Star will become available.  However, the minimum team salary is going up so you're going to be paying players more no matter what.  So I think a reasonable overpayment for a desirable non-star starter isn't a bad idea. 

I like what I've seen out of Middleton.  Middleton is a solid starter who can play SG or SF.  He seems like he would be a good fit no matter what Star we eventually get. Hayward and Parsons both got nearly 15mill.  I don't think they are twice as good as Middleton.  Ainge gave Bradley 4yr/32mil.  I probably wouldn't go Max but I'd offer Middleton 4yr/48mil. 

[Roy H.]

I just don't understand the "the cap is going up, so let's massively overpay role players" argument.  You spend money on stars, period. Paying $15+ million to a guy who is worth $6 to $8 million is lunacy.

I actually agree with this, but I also think it's lunacy to say Middleton is a $6-$8M guy. Parson, Hayward and Thompson are all comps for this stage of his career, and those guys were $15M+ contracts in the "old" cap situation. 23 year-old players who shoot 40% from 3PT, defend, and are killing it with the analytics crowd are worth much more than that.  You give him 35 minutes and 20% usage (a slight uptick), and even at his current skillset that's a 17 points, 6 boards, 3 assists, 2 steals player with high efficiency and good defense. Not a role player making just above the MLE.

Middleton is a lot closer to the caliber of J.J. Redick / Tony Allen / Avery Bradley than he is Klay Thompson.

[Roy H.]

maybe Middleton and one max guy is enough to make the team a contender.

Sometimes it would be nice to live in Candyland like this, how are the cotton candy trees?

I don't believe Stevens envisions a team with 1-2 or 3 stars surrounded by role players who's job it is to facilitate the stars.
I believe he incisions a team of equals who win together.
So far it has worked.
The next step is to upgrade the talent across the board.
Ideally 6 or 7 "3rd best" players, each of which would be at least good defenders and willing passers. each with an above average talent, be it scoring, distributing, 3pt shooting, rim protection, perimeter d...
KM is an ideal pick up in this system, add an athletic shot blocker (who has an additional above average skill and a little more of fence and Stevens would have the team he's looking to build.

I hope not, because such a team maxes out in the second round. Teams stacked with third options, but no stars, don't win titles.

It's pretty difficult to say where a team as young as ours currently maxes out. Adding a guy like Middleton at the max doesn't cap our ceiling as a team because our young players could improve and become stars (or improve to the point they should be traded for stars)

I don't think that any of our guys has superstar potential. The premise was that Stevens wants a team full of third options. That's a recipe for mediocrity.

Stars win. Teams full of role players don't. NBA history is pretty clear on this point. Similarly, spending large chunks of your cap on role players, without stars being in place, is a great way to ensure you never reach the next level.

I just don't understand the "the cap is going up, so let's massively overpay role players" argument.  You spend money on stars, period. Paying $15+ million to a guy who is worth $6 to $8 million is lunacy.

What I can see the Celtics doing is going after players who would be considered star-caliber players according to advanced metrics, but who will be under-appreciated by Charles Barkley type anti-statheads unless they actually win a title.  (And not even then.  Some people still don't think Kawhi Leonard is a max contract guy who is good enough for the Spurs to build around post-Duncan.)

Channing Frye was an all-stat caliber player using those same advanced metrics. How'd that work out for Orlando?

Guys need to show more than half a season of good-but-not-great play to earn a max contract.

[TA9]

I'm not convinced by Khris Middleton. I'd like to see him produce high numbers throughout a whole season before committing that much money on Middleton. This could very well be another "Jeremy Lin" who knows..

[Roy H.]

I'm not convinced by Khris Middleton. I'd like to see him produce high numbers throughout a whole season before committing that much money on Middleton. This could very well be another "Jeremy Lin" who knows..

[Csfan1984]

For guys that are against the max. What do feel is his actual value?

I say old cap 7-10 million per. The new cap 10-13 million per. By the numbers at 11 million team could still afford two max guys in 2016. So I'm on board at 11 million.

[Roy H.]

For guys that are against the max. What do feel is his actual value?

I say old cap 7-10 million per. The new cap 10-13 million per. By the numbers at 11 million team could still afford two max guys in 2016. So I'm on board at 11 million.

I'd be scared at even $11 million.  Middleton rated as a very poor defender last year.  He's been very good this year.  Is that sustainable, or is that contract year effort? 

I like Middleton, but to me it's just too soon to give him a huge contract.  I understand that you're not going to be able to sign Middleton for what he's worth, because he's a restricted free agent.  However, I'd rather commit resources toward somebody else than overplay based on the potential of one good stretch of 40 games.

[Evantime34]

For guys that are against the max. What do feel is his actual value?

I say old cap 7-10 million per. The new cap 10-13 million per. By the numbers at 11 million team could still afford two max guys in 2016. So I'm on board at 11 million.

I'd be scared at even $11 million.  Middleton rated as a very poor defender last year.  He's been very good this year.  Is that sustainable, or is that contract year effort? 

I like Middleton, but to me it's just too soon to give him a huge contract.  I understand that you're not going to be able to sign Middleton for what he's worth, because he's a restricted free agent.  However, I'd rather commit resources toward somebody else than overplay based on the potential of one good stretch of 40 games.

Who would you rather commit resources too?

The prototype of the player I want is a 3 who can really shoot it and defend, that is young enough to have a lot of room for improvement. To me that sounds like Middleton.