Poll

Would you still have pulled the trigger on a Love trade last summer knowing what you know now?

Yes
No

Author Topic: Losing out on Kevin Love last summer a blessing?  (Read 11004 times)

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Re: Losing out on Kevin Love last summer a blessing?
« Reply #30 on: March 06, 2015, 03:24:01 PM »

Offline positivitize

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I'm probably in the minority, but

I didn't like Love last summer, and I hope we don't go after him this summer. He is offensively polished, but he doesn't play the defense I want. (minor critique)

and, more importantly, He doesn't approach the game with the seriousness I want from a star Celtic. I want the KG, Smart, Pierce intensity. I don't want the Lebron/Love-esq lackadaisical Im-amazing-and-I-dont-need-to-try bull****.

I want my Celtic stars to eat, sleep, breathe, and bleed basketball and competition. I want the killer instinct. I want the anger. I want the fire.

and Love doesn't have that and never will.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2015, 04:01:57 PM by positivitize »
My biases, in order of fervor:
Pro:
Smart, Brown, Hayward, Tatum, Kemba, Grant Williams, Sleepy Williams, Edwards!

Anti:
Kanter, Semi, Theis, Poierier

Re: Losing out on Kevin Love last summer a blessing?
« Reply #31 on: March 06, 2015, 04:07:01 PM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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I'm probably in the minority, but

I didn't like love last summer, and I hope we don't go after him this summer. He is offensively polished, but he doesn't play the defense I want. (minor critique)

and, more importantly, He doesn't approach the game with the seriousness I want from a star Celtic. I want the KG, Smart, Pierce intensity. I don't want the Lebron/Love-esq lackadaisical Im-amazing-and-I-dont-need-to-try bull****.

I want my Celtic stars to eat, sleep, breathe, and bleed basketball and competition. I want the killer instinct. I want the anger. I want the fire.

and Love doesn't have that and never will.
It is a different era now.  Stars want to team up with each other.  They're concerned about their commercial deals and social media presence.  I'd love to see some younger stars pickup the mantle from KG, Pierce, Kobe but I don't see it happening.   

Re: Losing out on Kevin Love last summer a blessing?
« Reply #32 on: March 06, 2015, 04:21:46 PM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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I think it comes down to whether you feel after being traded, each of Love, Rondo and Green have looked worse for there new teams and that's how they would have played for us this year if the trade for Love had happened.

personally, I think Love would have put up similar numbers to what he did in Minny, Rondo probably would have played with more focus/effort with the team on the upswing and Green, well, he'd have been Jeff Green.
I don't think it would be enough to make much noise in the playoffs (which we would have made without question).  I don't look at what we received from the Rondo/Green deals as justification for not making the Love trade.  The money the 3 of them would be making next year would be significant but based on Danny's penchant for trading, I think he could have gotten a couple more solid players to put around those 3 that would help. 

In the end, if the deal was KO/Sully, #6 (Smart) and let's say a Brooklyn first, I'd probably have done it.  Much rather be trying to get better than hope to get lucky in the draft to improve.
Offensively, Rondo, Green and Love would have been a good fit.  Green wouldn't have to be the #1 option.  With Love's defensive rebounding and great outlet passing, Green would have a lot of fast break opportunities.  Rondo would obviously benefit having a shooter like Love and Love would benefit from Rondo's passing.  The big issue would be defense.  You'd really need to go hard after Jordan or Hibbert. 

Re: Losing out on Kevin Love last summer a blessing?
« Reply #33 on: March 06, 2015, 04:25:23 PM »

Offline GreenGoggles

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I'm probably in the minority, but

I didn't like love last summer, and I hope we don't go after him this summer. He is offensively polished, but he doesn't play the defense I want. (minor critique)

and, more importantly, He doesn't approach the game with the seriousness I want from a star Celtic. I want the KG, Smart, Pierce intensity. I don't want the Lebron/Love-esq lackadaisical Im-amazing-and-I-dont-need-to-try bull****.

I want my Celtic stars to eat, sleep, breathe, and bleed basketball and competition. I want the killer instinct. I want the anger. I want the fire.

and Love doesn't have that and never will.
It is a different era now.  Stars want to team up with each other.  They're concerned about their commercial deals and social media presence.  I'd love to see some younger stars pickup the mantle from KG, Pierce, Kobe but I don't see it happening.   

Such a tired and old narrative. Stars have always teamed up with each other for a better chance to win titles.

Re: Losing out on Kevin Love last summer a blessing?
« Reply #34 on: March 06, 2015, 04:49:57 PM »

Offline Rosco917

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I really did not think Love was a good fit with the Rondo, Green situation at that time. I like players that defend, and defend hard. That's what wins championships. IMO Love's numbers with Minnesota we're really inflated because the team was so bad. Love is noted for soft defense, he's uses all his energy on the O side of the ball. 

Green is also not an energetic defender either, in fact he doesn't show up some nights period, offense or defense.

We all know what the attitude of Rondo is and was.

My feelings are if we did get Love and tried to rebuild on the fly, we would still be fighting to get into the playoffs, as we are now.   

   

Re: Losing out on Kevin Love last summer a blessing?
« Reply #35 on: March 06, 2015, 04:52:19 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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I'm probably in the minority, but

I didn't like love last summer, and I hope we don't go after him this summer. He is offensively polished, but he doesn't play the defense I want. (minor critique)

and, more importantly, He doesn't approach the game with the seriousness I want from a star Celtic. I want the KG, Smart, Pierce intensity. I don't want the Lebron/Love-esq lackadaisical Im-amazing-and-I-dont-need-to-try bull****.

I want my Celtic stars to eat, sleep, breathe, and bleed basketball and competition. I want the killer instinct. I want the anger. I want the fire.

and Love doesn't have that and never will.
It is a different era now.  Stars want to team up with each other.  They're concerned about their commercial deals and social media presence.  I'd love to see some younger stars pickup the mantle from KG, Pierce, Kobe but I don't see it happening.   

Such a tired and old narrative. Stars have always teamed up with each other for a better chance to win titles.

Stars have not always teamed up with each other like they do now and there are a lot of reasons for it. The biggest is changes in salary cap structure and maximums on rookie deals.

Check out this article on the contracts being handed out in 1993

http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/1993-10-24/sports/9310230427_1_salary-cap-johnson-s-contract-league-s-coaches

When a guy was signed to an 8 (or crazy, 12) year contract he couldn't switch teams every few years unless he was traded. That is why it was really rare to see a peak NBA star switch teams multiple times in their prime (like Lebron has twice). If Lebron had been under a 10 year contract it is a lot harder to see him convincing Cleveland to trade him, and if they did it wouldn't be a team that he chose that wouldn't be wiped out by the trade. So the super friends team in Miami with 3 stars in their 20s choosing to play together was really unprecented.

What has happened for a lot longer is stars switching teams at the end of their career when they were no longer under massive contracts and weren't quite as good. Examples of this would be Drexler joining the Dream and Houston (and later Barkley)

Or the Blazers getting washed up versions of Kemp, Pippin and others.

Malone and the glove joining the Lakers would be another example of this.

You could argue the Celtics may have started this movement, and a lot of people do, but I thought those guys were all in their 30's when it happened.

Re: Losing out on Kevin Love last summer a blessing?
« Reply #36 on: March 06, 2015, 06:27:21 PM »

Offline TheFlex

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I'm probably in the minority, but

I didn't like love last summer, and I hope we don't go after him this summer. He is offensively polished, but he doesn't play the defense I want. (minor critique)

and, more importantly, He doesn't approach the game with the seriousness I want from a star Celtic. I want the KG, Smart, Pierce intensity. I don't want the Lebron/Love-esq lackadaisical Im-amazing-and-I-dont-need-to-try bull****.

I want my Celtic stars to eat, sleep, breathe, and bleed basketball and competition. I want the killer instinct. I want the anger. I want the fire.

and Love doesn't have that and never will.
It is a different era now.  Stars want to team up with each other.  They're concerned about their commercial deals and social media presence.  I'd love to see some younger stars pickup the mantle from KG, Pierce, Kobe but I don't see it happening.   

Such a tired and old narrative. Stars have always teamed up with each other for a better chance to win titles.

Stars have not always teamed up with each other like they do now and there are a lot of reasons for it. The biggest is changes in salary cap structure and maximums on rookie deals.

Check out this article on the contracts being handed out in 1993

http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/1993-10-24/sports/9310230427_1_salary-cap-johnson-s-contract-league-s-coaches

When a guy was signed to an 8 (or crazy, 12) year contract he couldn't switch teams every few years unless he was traded. That is why it was really rare to see a peak NBA star switch teams multiple times in their prime (like Lebron has twice). If Lebron had been under a 10 year contract it is a lot harder to see him convincing Cleveland to trade him, and if they did it wouldn't be a team that he chose that wouldn't be wiped out by the trade. So the super friends team in Miami with 3 stars in their 20s choosing to play together was really unprecented.

What has happened for a lot longer is stars switching teams at the end of their career when they were no longer under massive contracts and weren't quite as good. Examples of this would be Drexler joining the Dream and Houston (and later Barkley)

Or the Blazers getting washed up versions of Kemp, Pippin and others.

Malone and the glove joining the Lakers would be another example of this.

You could argue the Celtics may have started this movement, and a lot of people do, but I thought those guys were all in their 30's when it happened.

Your argument is that the evolution of the CBA explains today's player movement, so are you saying stars of the past would do the same thing if management style promoted it? If that's the case, how can you use today's stars teaming up as indictment on their character, resiliency, what have you in comparison to stars of the past?


Draft: 8 first rounders in next 5 years.

Cap space: $24 mil.

https://www.reddit.com/r/dkcleague/

Re: Losing out on Kevin Love last summer a blessing?
« Reply #37 on: March 06, 2015, 06:51:14 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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I'm probably in the minority, but

I didn't like love last summer, and I hope we don't go after him this summer. He is offensively polished, but he doesn't play the defense I want. (minor critique)

and, more importantly, He doesn't approach the game with the seriousness I want from a star Celtic. I want the KG, Smart, Pierce intensity. I don't want the Lebron/Love-esq lackadaisical Im-amazing-and-I-dont-need-to-try bull****.

I want my Celtic stars to eat, sleep, breathe, and bleed basketball and competition. I want the killer instinct. I want the anger. I want the fire.

and Love doesn't have that and never will.
It is a different era now.  Stars want to team up with each other.  They're concerned about their commercial deals and social media presence.  I'd love to see some younger stars pickup the mantle from KG, Pierce, Kobe but I don't see it happening.   

Such a tired and old narrative. Stars have always teamed up with each other for a better chance to win titles.

Stars have not always teamed up with each other like they do now and there are a lot of reasons for it. The biggest is changes in salary cap structure and maximums on rookie deals.

Check out this article on the contracts being handed out in 1993

http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/1993-10-24/sports/9310230427_1_salary-cap-johnson-s-contract-league-s-coaches

When a guy was signed to an 8 (or crazy, 12) year contract he couldn't switch teams every few years unless he was traded. That is why it was really rare to see a peak NBA star switch teams multiple times in their prime (like Lebron has twice). If Lebron had been under a 10 year contract it is a lot harder to see him convincing Cleveland to trade him, and if they did it wouldn't be a team that he chose that wouldn't be wiped out by the trade. So the super friends team in Miami with 3 stars in their 20s choosing to play together was really unprecented.

What has happened for a lot longer is stars switching teams at the end of their career when they were no longer under massive contracts and weren't quite as good. Examples of this would be Drexler joining the Dream and Houston (and later Barkley)

Or the Blazers getting washed up versions of Kemp, Pippin and others.

Malone and the glove joining the Lakers would be another example of this.

You could argue the Celtics may have started this movement, and a lot of people do, but I thought those guys were all in their 30's when it happened.

Your argument is that the evolution of the CBA explains today's player movement, so are you saying stars of the past would do the same thing if management style promoted it? If that's the case, how can you use today's stars teaming up as indictment on their character, resiliency, what have you in comparison to stars of the past?

I think you are confusing me with other posters (or maybe I am confused). I was just responding to the poster stating that star players have always been teaming up with each other. That was a false statement and I used the CBA to explain part (if not all) of the reason why. I don't think I said anything about the character or resilience of today's players versus stars of the past (other people did).

The point is you can't just say "it is always been like this" because it obviously hasn't....
 

Re: Losing out on Kevin Love last summer a blessing?
« Reply #38 on: March 06, 2015, 07:05:41 PM »

Offline TheFlex

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I'm probably in the minority, but

I didn't like love last summer, and I hope we don't go after him this summer. He is offensively polished, but he doesn't play the defense I want. (minor critique)

and, more importantly, He doesn't approach the game with the seriousness I want from a star Celtic. I want the KG, Smart, Pierce intensity. I don't want the Lebron/Love-esq lackadaisical Im-amazing-and-I-dont-need-to-try bull****.

I want my Celtic stars to eat, sleep, breathe, and bleed basketball and competition. I want the killer instinct. I want the anger. I want the fire.

and Love doesn't have that and never will.
It is a different era now.  Stars want to team up with each other.  They're concerned about their commercial deals and social media presence.  I'd love to see some younger stars pickup the mantle from KG, Pierce, Kobe but I don't see it happening.   

Such a tired and old narrative. Stars have always teamed up with each other for a better chance to win titles.

Stars have not always teamed up with each other like they do now and there are a lot of reasons for it. The biggest is changes in salary cap structure and maximums on rookie deals.

Check out this article on the contracts being handed out in 1993

http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/1993-10-24/sports/9310230427_1_salary-cap-johnson-s-contract-league-s-coaches

When a guy was signed to an 8 (or crazy, 12) year contract he couldn't switch teams every few years unless he was traded. That is why it was really rare to see a peak NBA star switch teams multiple times in their prime (like Lebron has twice). If Lebron had been under a 10 year contract it is a lot harder to see him convincing Cleveland to trade him, and if they did it wouldn't be a team that he chose that wouldn't be wiped out by the trade. So the super friends team in Miami with 3 stars in their 20s choosing to play together was really unprecented.

What has happened for a lot longer is stars switching teams at the end of their career when they were no longer under massive contracts and weren't quite as good. Examples of this would be Drexler joining the Dream and Houston (and later Barkley)

Or the Blazers getting washed up versions of Kemp, Pippin and others.

Malone and the glove joining the Lakers would be another example of this.

You could argue the Celtics may have started this movement, and a lot of people do, but I thought those guys were all in their 30's when it happened.

Your argument is that the evolution of the CBA explains today's player movement, so are you saying stars of the past would do the same thing if management style promoted it? If that's the case, how can you use today's stars teaming up as indictment on their character, resiliency, what have you in comparison to stars of the past?

I think you are confusing me with other posters (or maybe I am confused). I was just responding to the poster stating that star players have always been teaming up with each other. That was a false statement and I used the CBA to explain part (if not all) of the reason why. I don't think I said anything about the character or resilience of today's players versus stars of the past (other people did).

The point is you can't just say "it is always been like this" because it obviously hasn't....

Ah, I thought you were supporting the thoughts of the first few posters. I agree with your argument. If past players could move as easily as stars do today, it would have happened.


Draft: 8 first rounders in next 5 years.

Cap space: $24 mil.

https://www.reddit.com/r/dkcleague/

Re: Losing out on Kevin Love last summer a blessing?
« Reply #39 on: March 07, 2015, 07:58:59 AM »

Offline mctyson

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I tend to think it was a fortunate non-get. Rondo had to leave to be exposed. If he had stayed his reputation would have been protected...

I'm not so sure about that.  I think he has been exposed badly this year both on the Cs and the Mavs.  He still is a talented guy but with/without Love there was 0% chance Danny was offering Rondo a max contract.


Re: Losing out on Kevin Love last summer a blessing?
« Reply #40 on: March 07, 2015, 08:55:26 AM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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Probably so......in that we'd had to keep Rondo ......and by the looks of his impact on Mavs ,  and given the offensive scheme CBS runs ....a Rondo would have been a huge headache .

Like to have him NOW without Rondo.

Re: Losing out on Kevin Love last summer a blessing?
« Reply #41 on: March 07, 2015, 09:51:11 AM »

Offline spikelovetheCelts

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I really did not think Love was a good fit with the Rondo, Green situation at that time. I like players that defend, and defend hard. That's what wins championships. IMO Love's numbers with Minnesota we're really inflated because the team was so bad. Love is noted for soft defense, he's uses all his energy on the O side of the ball. 

Green is also not an energetic defender either, in fact he doesn't show up some nights period, offense or defense.

We all know what the attitude of Rondo is and was.

My feelings are if we did get Love and tried to rebuild on the fly, we would still be fighting to get into the playoffs, as we are now.   

 
I think the same. I like where we are right now. Getting Towns or Stein in the Draft and a wing player. I think we need to offer Butler, Green and Leonard contracts to show were are serious. We probably will not get them but we show we want to win. Hopefully we can use the rondo trade exemption for something good. DA has my faith. I would love to see us move up and get Winslow or Jordan. I don't like Monroe so i hope we don't get him. I think Sully is going to catch fire like Barkley did back in the day.  :) ;) ;D ;D :) :)
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Re: Losing out on Kevin Love last summer a blessing?
« Reply #42 on: March 07, 2015, 10:33:00 AM »

Offline Rosco917

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I really did not think Love was a good fit with the Rondo, Green situation at that time. I like players that defend, and defend hard. That's what wins championships. IMO Love's numbers with Minnesota we're really inflated because the team was so bad. Love is noted for soft defense, he's uses all his energy on the O side of the ball. 

Green is also not an energetic defender either, in fact he doesn't show up some nights period, offense or defense.

We all know what the attitude of Rondo is and was.

My feelings are if we did get Love and tried to rebuild on the fly, we would still be fighting to get into the playoffs, as we are now.   

 
I think the same. I like where we are right now. Getting Towns or Stein in the Draft and a wing player. I think we need to offer Butler, Green and Leonard contracts to show were are serious. We probably will not get them but we show we want to win. Hopefully we can use the rondo trade exemption for something good. DA has my faith. I would love to see us move up and get Winslow or Jordan. I don't like Monroe so i hope we don't get him. I think Sully is going to catch fire like Barkley did back in the day.  :) ;) ;D ;D :) :)


I hear you, except for the Sully thing, I don't feel Sully will catch fire, I think he will always be a tease, always have weight and injury issues. He'll loose weight this year to sign a contract for sure.
I like bigs that can defend and protect.
 

Re: Losing out on Kevin Love last summer a blessing?
« Reply #43 on: March 08, 2015, 11:22:24 AM »

Offline Hemingway

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Its all situational. I mean just because RR and Love are not playing super well now, doesn't mean that is just how they were going to play this year.

Re: Losing out on Kevin Love last summer a blessing?
« Reply #44 on: March 08, 2015, 11:47:38 AM »

Offline Snakehead

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I think Love would be putting up big numbers on our team.  There he is spacing the floor and can't really dominate the ball.  They are finding ways to use him and I think he will get better working within a system.  But I think if he was here and the focus of an offense (particularly a Stevens offense) he would be putting up numbers.

I do think he didn't play hard when I've watched him at times when he isn't getting the ball which I don't like but here he would be.

I think he's like a top 10 player not a top 5 like we wondered if he was.  But he's still young and still really good.

I am still interested in getting him if we could.
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