Author Topic: 2015 Patriots Football  (Read 149639 times)

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Re: 2015 Patriots Football
« Reply #30 on: September 11, 2015, 01:07:36 PM »

Offline Moranis

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... and the other guys still can't figure the Patriots out. Time for more rule changes? :P

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/09/11/headsets-werent-all-the-steelers-were-complaining-about-post-game/
I have no issue with that, but the headset stuff is a real problem and the fact that the Patriots didn't make sure they worked with all the stuff going on says they just don't care, which should be a problem.

My understanding is that the NFL is fully in charge of the headsets and the home team has nothing to do with it.
except the interference was caused by the stadium's power, which once resolved went away.  Of course, there is always something wrong with the headsets in New England, which is the greater issue and a sign of either pure incompetence or some sort of chicanery.  This is the Patriots, so I think it is safe to say it is the latter.
Maybe if you spend ten million dollars and 4 months you can figure out that the Pats are generally aware of power issues in their stadium.
touche.  Though as more and more of these issues come out and more and more people claim it is a much bigger problem in New England than any where else, it becomes harder and harder to believe it is all just a coincidence. 
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Re: 2015 Patriots Football
« Reply #31 on: September 11, 2015, 01:12:24 PM »

Offline Fan from VT

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... and the other guys still can't figure the Patriots out. Time for more rule changes? :P

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/09/11/headsets-werent-all-the-steelers-were-complaining-about-post-game/
I have no issue with that, but the headset stuff is a real problem and the fact that the Patriots didn't make sure they worked with all the stuff going on says they just don't care, which should be a problem.

My understanding is that the NFL is fully in charge of the headsets and the home team has nothing to do with it.
except the interference was caused by the stadium's power, which once resolved went away.  Of course, there is always something wrong with the headsets in New England, which is the greater issue and a sign of either pure incompetence or some sort of chicanery.  This is the Patriots, so I think it is safe to say it is the latter.
Maybe if you spend ten million dollars and 4 months you can figure out that the Pats are generally aware of power issues in their stadium.
touche.  Though as more and more of these issues come out and more and more people claim it is a much bigger problem in New England than any where else, it becomes harder and harder to believe it is all just a coincidence.

Actually, the more widespread problems get applied more specifically to the Pats, the more likely it is that is is a coincidience or, more accurately, disproportionate reporting. Who cares if Tampa Bay plays loose with little rules? Who is going to complain after beating oakland? Who in the media is specifically asking how often weird things happen in Miami? No one cares except when it pertains to the top dog and jealousy, then it becomes about self perpetuating snow ball effect of excuse making, selective memory, selective reporting, and increased vigilance for the slightest thing amiss.

Re: 2015 Patriots Football
« Reply #32 on: September 11, 2015, 01:59:17 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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I agree with Fan from VT.  We'll hear opposing teams complaining more about little things in their matchups with the Pats now, because they know such complaints will gain traction.  They will be regarded as additional evidence of the Pats being cheaters, rather than a defeated team whining and making excuses for a loss.
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Re: 2015 Patriots Football
« Reply #33 on: September 11, 2015, 02:05:59 PM »

Offline Moranis

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I agree with Fan from VT.  We'll hear opposing teams complaining more about little things in their matchups with the Pats now, because they know such complaints will gain traction.  They will be regarded as additional evidence of the Pats being cheaters, rather than a defeated team whining and making excuses for a loss.
It isn't just complaints, it is complaints with things like what Tomlin said after the game that they always happen and are far more frequent in New England than other places. 
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Re: 2015 Patriots Football
« Reply #34 on: September 11, 2015, 02:09:12 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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I agree with Fan from VT.  We'll hear opposing teams complaining more about little things in their matchups with the Pats now, because they know such complaints will gain traction.  They will be regarded as additional evidence of the Pats being cheaters, rather than a defeated team whining and making excuses for a loss.
It isn't just complaints, it is complaints with things like what Tomlin said after the game that they always happen and are far more frequent in New England than other places.

And such a claim won't get derided as sour grapes, or really fact checked at all (like um, the fact that the headsets are the NFL's equipment, not the Pats'), since now everybody is ready to agree with the idea that the Pats are cheaters and "these things happen when you play New England."

It's the echo chamber effect -- we say it enough so now everybody agrees it's true, despite the fact that it's all hearsay -- and the Steelers are smart enough to take advantage of that.



Typically, somebody suggesting that a headset malfunction was a nefarious conspiracy by the home team, rather than a result of a fairly mundane technical failure in the presence of inclement weather, would be dismissed and derided as an irrational, sore loser.  But since everybody agrees the Pats are cheaters, it must be the conspiracy!
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Re: 2015 Patriots Football
« Reply #35 on: September 11, 2015, 02:32:20 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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I agree with Fan from VT.  We'll hear opposing teams complaining more about little things in their matchups with the Pats now, because they know such complaints will gain traction.  They will be regarded as additional evidence of the Pats being cheaters, rather than a defeated team whining and making excuses for a loss.
It isn't just complaints, it is complaints with things like what Tomlin said after the game that they always happen and are far more frequent in New England than other places.

Where's the evidence, though?  Where's the punishments?  Where's the tangible stuff incriminating the Patriots.  All this stuff is speculation & a lot of paranoia.

It certainly sounds like sour grapes and excuse making.   And the media takes this stuff and exacerbates it.


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Re: 2015 Patriots Football
« Reply #36 on: September 11, 2015, 02:34:37 PM »

Offline Evantime34

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The Steelers aren't going to file a complaint against the Pats for the malfunction per Schefter. He also said that a steelers coach is under investigation for assaulting a Pats fan.

Here are my thoughts on the actual game
1. Lewis looks great, I still think they ride Blount hard against certain teams and use Lewis against others like Vereen/Ridley of past years
2. Bradley Fletcher is trash, I think Logan Ryan will replace him.
3. Too bad about Easley getting hurt early, I think he would have really helped the pass rush (hopefully he comes back healthy)
4. The Pass rush was much worse than I thought it would be. I figured the Pats d would be good enough to cover for their corners with a strong pass rush.
5. I thought the o line looked really good but I'm not sure how much of that is the Steelers d being bad.
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Re: 2015 Patriots Football
« Reply #37 on: September 11, 2015, 02:47:13 PM »

Offline Moranis

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I agree with Fan from VT.  We'll hear opposing teams complaining more about little things in their matchups with the Pats now, because they know such complaints will gain traction.  They will be regarded as additional evidence of the Pats being cheaters, rather than a defeated team whining and making excuses for a loss.
It isn't just complaints, it is complaints with things like what Tomlin said after the game that they always happen and are far more frequent in New England than other places.

Where's the evidence, though?  Where's the punishments?  Where's the tangible stuff incriminating the Patriots.  All this stuff is speculation & a lot of paranoia.

It certainly sounds like sour grapes and excuse making.   And the media takes this stuff and exacerbates it.
How do you prove that though?  Unless you have video of somebody tampering with the equipment or being directed to do so, you aren't going to have evidence.  But that doesn't mean it doesn't happen and if truly happens at a much greater frequency in New England, that is a problem. 
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Re: 2015 Patriots Football
« Reply #38 on: September 11, 2015, 03:01:57 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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Many people have said aliens are abducting human beings and replacing them with alien robots that are identical in every way to humans.

How can you prove it, though? Unless you have video of such an abduction.

But that doesn't mean it doesn't happen, and if it is happening, it's a major problem.
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Re: 2015 Patriots Football
« Reply #39 on: September 11, 2015, 03:02:36 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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I agree with Fan from VT.  We'll hear opposing teams complaining more about little things in their matchups with the Pats now, because they know such complaints will gain traction.  They will be regarded as additional evidence of the Pats being cheaters, rather than a defeated team whining and making excuses for a loss.
It isn't just complaints, it is complaints with things like what Tomlin said after the game that they always happen and are far more frequent in New England than other places.

Where's the evidence, though?  Where's the punishments?  Where's the tangible stuff incriminating the Patriots.  All this stuff is speculation & a lot of paranoia.

It certainly sounds like sour grapes and excuse making.   And the media takes this stuff and exacerbates it.
How do you prove that though?  Unless you have video of somebody tampering with the equipment or being directed to do so, you aren't going to have evidence.  But that doesn't mean it doesn't happen and if truly happens at a much greater frequency in New England, that is a problem.

So it's happening but they can't prove it?  Ummm....okay.    You have better security & controls.  You monitor things better.  Maybe the stuff is already being monitored & there actually isn't any malicious stuff going on.  Just quirks of mother nature or architecture

Like I said, a ton of this stuff is speculation that is made worse by the media and some of it falls into the realm of conspiracy theory.   The SI idiot a few months ago talking about Belichick using the CBS scene television to name one example.

Seems like a lot of urban legends and sour grapes to me.  Paranoia.  And it certainly sounds like last night was an NFL problem. 


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Re: 2015 Patriots Football
« Reply #40 on: September 11, 2015, 03:47:56 PM »

Offline knuckleballer

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Problems with headsets happen frequently throughout the league and have since they began using them.  Rex Ryan said as much today when asked about it.  He said he doesn't recall specific stadiums where it was a particular problem.  Back in the 2010/2011 AFC Championship game the Jets lost to the Steelers in Pittsburgh in a game where the headsets were consistently failing.  Ryan did not make any excuses or complain about it after the loss.  Nobody made a big deal out of it because it affects both teams and everyone understands it's a common occurrence.

Belichick talked about it today and also said it happens a lot at home and on the road.  He also said they practice for it.  Watching the game yesterday, you didn't see him getting angry, he just moved on to their contingency plan.  Is that good preparation and coaching or evidence that he was running a scheme under the national spotlight days after being accused of such cheating and the NFL overseeing the headset communication?  I think it's obviously the former, but there is no way to convince those who think the latter.  Unfortunately such a normal occurrence, particularly in bad weather, just adds to the conspiracy theories and we will likely see more of it as the season plays out.

Re: 2015 Patriots Football
« Reply #41 on: September 11, 2015, 05:48:46 PM »

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Re: 2015 Patriots Football
« Reply #42 on: September 11, 2015, 06:42:51 PM »

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I think the Patriots probably engage in some purposeful misinterpretation of rules, some shrewd interpretations of the rules, and some flat-out skirting of the rules.   I doubt that these ways of thinking and behaving are too far from the norm in the NFL.  The approach is also virtually identical to the approach Red Auerbach took in assembling, coaching, and managing the Celtics. 

I have absolutely no problem with what I see as Belichick's brilliance as a coach and general manager -- basically because I believe he straddles the line of ethics when it comes to getting an edge, but I have yet to hear a single thing that would lead me to believe that he crosses the line in a way I'd be uncomfortable with.  If he is telling guys to sneak into hotel rooms to steal playbooks or planting microphones -- yes, that would be too far -- but there is absolutely NOTHING credible about those types of accusations and I don't believe them. 

I am certain none of us know the complete truth.  Based on what we do know, along we what falls in the realm of reaonable speculation -- I don't give a hoot.  I wouldn't trade the last 15 years of Pats fandom for anything.   And, i hope that Brad and Danny are alert to anything that would give the C's an edge, even if it skirts the line.  My ethical threshold when it comes to sports is different from real life.

Re: 2015 Patriots Football
« Reply #43 on: September 11, 2015, 06:48:46 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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I don't expect Pats fans to be concerned with what everyone else thinks, but the stain that is on this franchise is very real. I personally don't have a whole lot of respect for the way they do their business. I acknowledge their success, but it most certainly comes with questions.

Point being, outside of New England, the legacy of this team will just never be on par with that of the 70's Steelers, 80's 49ers, or 90's Cowboys teams. Such is the reality Kraft, Belicheck and Brady will have to live with for their actions.

Re: 2015 Patriots Football
« Reply #44 on: September 11, 2015, 06:54:43 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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What, less than a day, no Ted Wells and no million-dollar investigation?! I am disappoint.

Quote
Based on our review to date, we believe that the audio interference on the Steelers’ headsets last night was entirely attributable to an electrical issue made worse by the inclement weather, that it involved no manipulation by any individual, and that the Patriots had nothing to do with it.

http://itiswhatitis.weei.com/sports/newengland/football/patriots/2015/09/11/nfl-determines-patriots-had-nothing-to-do-with-steelers-headset-problem/
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