Author Topic: NASCAR (what is the attraction?)  (Read 4430 times)

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NASCAR (what is the attraction?)
« on: March 05, 2015, 02:48:13 AM »

Offline Greyman

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I am not a huge motor sport fan but I keep an interest in the local V8s (Australia) and Formula One. I have been to V8 events and get the overall attraction of motor sports. I have watched a few NASCAR events here on the TV and have become familiar with a number of the drivers.

What I don't get is the attraction of the oval tracks? I know that the competition is tough and the skills are greater than some might think. I just believe corners going both ways and of a greater variety of shapes makes for more exciting racing.

Also, is a day out at a NASCAR event a worthwhile thing to do if visiting the US.

Re: NASCAR (what is the attraction?)
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2015, 03:05:03 AM »

Offline Csfan1984

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Ovals are about proving the car (+crew) is better than the competition just as much as a driver IMO. Which is the roots of Nascar. On a road course it's a lot more on driver. Yet I do agree and prefer GT racing more than drag (ultimate my car better than yours) or Nascar (some driver skill and lots on crew and car) but I respect all kinds of car racing. Going to a Nascar event is pretty k. I'd recommend any race fan do it at least 1x it's a experience for your five senses.

Re: NASCAR (what is the attraction?)
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2015, 05:57:54 AM »

Offline Greyman

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Ovals are about proving the car (+crew) is better than the competition just as much as a driver IMO. Which is the roots of Nascar. On a road course it's a lot more on driver. Yet I do agree and prefer GT racing more than drag (ultimate my car better than yours) or Nascar (some driver skill and lots on crew and car) but I respect all kinds of car racing. Going to a Nascar event is pretty k. I'd recommend any race fan do it at least 1x it's a experience for your five senses.
When I get around to visiting the US (high on my bucket list) I will try to make a NASCAR event part of it. Marcus Ambrose recently returned to OZ to race V8s again after a few years over there. Think he won some road races but was midfield in the Oval races I saw. I take the point of a test of driver plus crew and car. I have sat and watched a few races on TV, basically because there wasn't much else on and I was having a lazy day. I could see myself having a great time at a race. Thanks for the reply.

Re: NASCAR (what is the attraction?)
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2015, 06:08:34 AM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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I like road course racing and wish NASCAR would add a couple more road courses to the schedule.  In NASCAR road racing, there is actually quite a bit of passing for position and strategic decisions that occur.  I used to watch a lot more F1 but I got bored with all the follow the leader racing.  I really hated when they got rid of refueling because that killed pretty much all the strategy.  I do like when it rains as that usually mixes things up. 

There is actually quite a lot of variety in the NASCAR oval racing.  You have the close quarter bump and run racing at short tracks and the large pack racing at the superspeedways.  You have multi-groove tracks where cars will be running from the bottom to the top and others that are not much more than a single groove.  Some tracks are quite difficult to pass on so maintaining track position is critical.  Some tracks eat through the tires so 4 tire pit stops are practically mandatory but at others you'll see a variety of tire strategies.  Track temperature greatly affects the car performance so the races that start during the day and at end at night are fun to watch.  The cars themselves have quite a bit of adjustments that can be made to improve a car's performance during a race so a car that looks dominant at the beginning of a race may not be competing for the win at the end. 

Re: NASCAR (what is the attraction?)
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2015, 11:30:37 AM »

Offline mgent

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Distance.  A 3-4 hour race on an oval ends up being 500 miles, whereas a stock car on a road course can only cover ~100 miles in that amount of time.

And in a sport where average speed over the entire race is all that matters, you want a very large sample size.  Especially with all the variables like lap traffic that have to even out.

It also has a lot to do with competition.  Those cars have a MUCH harder time passing one another on the road courses.  More passing/lead changes typically equals more exciting racing (and more exciting crashes).  An oval with 2-3 grooves allows a car to pass even if it's only .05 seconds faster per lap.  A road course with 1 groove means you can hold up a guy much faster than you for days until you make a mistake.  This problem is especially magnified when you have to pass each of the lapped cars 20+ times a race.  The extra lanes allow for everyone to pass the lap cars evenly, whereas catching a lap car in the corner of a road course can take you SECONDS longer to pass than it does for the car behind you because he catches the lapped car on the straightaway.

This also means if the fastest car in the field starts at the back of the pack (due to a transmission change or something) he has ZERO chance of ever making it back to the front.  In fact, the winners on road courses almost always start in the top 5, that's just how hard it is to make it through the pack.  Meanwhile, people win from 43rd on an oval no problem.

The different grooves also make for much more varied racing and car packages.  One guys sets up his car for the top while the other is dialing it in on the bottom.  And then their tire wear becomes different which makes things even more interesting, along with tons of other strategy spin-offs (like I'm faster than him, but we're both running on the bottom, and if I go to the top now i'm too slow to pass him).

Probably worth mentioning the camber and banking on ovals as well, which just leads to much faster racing.  Some people just flat out prefer watching cars go over 200 mph.  The crashes are epic, and when you have things like 'the Big One' go down in EVERY single Talledega race, people really enjoy that.  There's so much history at all these tracks, I can't see Americans giving any of them up.  If you like road racing, watch tiny/light cars, and let the big high horse engines that are put up front and equipped with only 4 gears continue to go fast.

That said, I'd love more road courses in NASCAR if possible, and there should be one in the Chase since there's at least 1 of every other track type.  Marcos Ambrose was always my favorite driver, RIP (and that haymaker he threw last year was sooo perfect).  That final lap at Watkins Glen with him/Keselowski/Busch sliding everywhere because of the oil was absolutely the most exciting thing I've ever seen on television.  I think a separate NASCAR series for stock road racing would make the most sense though (regardless if they're vettes/porches or jettas).

And this will probably be the last post in the thread because most people in Mass. (and the rest of the north) have no clue what NASCAR is.   ;)



EDIT: 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFrp_HuzsvY


@ 43:00
« Last Edit: March 05, 2015, 11:42:29 AM by mgent »
Philly:

Anderson Varejao    Tiago Splitter    Matt Bonner
David West    Kenyon Martin    Brad Miller
Andre Iguodala    Josh Childress    Marquis Daniels
Dwyane Wade    Leandro Barbosa
Kirk Hinrich    Toney Douglas   + the legendary Kevin McHale

Re: NASCAR (what is the attraction?)
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2015, 11:45:21 AM »

Offline TheTruthFot18

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I don't know about you guys but seeing a car take a left...I just lose it.
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Re: NASCAR (what is the attraction?)
« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2015, 12:53:27 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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I prefer oval tracks.  Road racing's lack of passing and the (relative) lack of speed in the corners has never appealed to me.


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Re: NASCAR (what is the attraction?)
« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2015, 12:50:15 AM »

Offline Greyman

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Distance.  A 3-4 hour race on an oval ends up being 500 miles, whereas a stock car on a road course can only cover ~100 miles in that amount of time.

And in a sport where average speed over the entire race is all that matters, you want a very large sample size.  Especially with all the variables like lap traffic that have to even out.

It also has a lot to do with competition.  Those cars have a MUCH harder time passing one another on the road courses.  More passing/lead changes typically equals more exciting racing (and more exciting crashes).  An oval with 2-3 grooves allows a car to pass even if it's only .05 seconds faster per lap.  A road course with 1 groove means you can hold up a guy much faster than you for days until you make a mistake.  This problem is especially magnified when you have to pass each of the lapped cars 20+ times a race.  The extra lanes allow for everyone to pass the lap cars evenly, whereas catching a lap car in the corner of a road course can take you SECONDS longer to pass than it does for the car behind you because he catches the lapped car on the straightaway.

This also means if the fastest car in the field starts at the back of the pack (due to a transmission change or something) he has ZERO chance of ever making it back to the front.  In fact, the winners on road courses almost always start in the top 5, that's just how hard it is to make it through the pack.  Meanwhile, people win from 43rd on an oval no problem.

The different grooves also make for much more varied racing and car packages.  One guys sets up his car for the top while the other is dialing it in on the bottom.  And then their tire wear becomes different which makes things even more interesting, along with tons of other strategy spin-offs (like I'm faster than him, but we're both running on the bottom, and if I go to the top now i'm too slow to pass him).

Probably worth mentioning the camber and banking on ovals as well, which just leads to much faster racing.  Some people just flat out prefer watching cars go over 200 mph.  The crashes are epic, and when you have things like 'the Big One' go down in EVERY single Talledega race, people really enjoy that.  There's so much history at all these tracks, I can't see Americans giving any of them up.  If you like road racing, watch tiny/light cars, and let the big high horse engines that are put up front and equipped with only 4 gears continue to go fast.

That said, I'd love more road courses in NASCAR if possible, and there should be one in the Chase since there's at least 1 of every other track type.  Marcos Ambrose was always my favorite driver, RIP (and that haymaker he threw last year was sooo perfect).  That final lap at Watkins Glen with him/Keselowski/Busch sliding everywhere because of the oil was absolutely the most exciting thing I've ever seen on television.  I think a separate NASCAR series for stock road racing would make the most sense though (regardless if they're vettes/porches or jettas).

And this will probably be the last post in the thread because most people in Mass. (and the rest of the north) have no clue what NASCAR is.   ;)





EDIT: 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFrp_HuzsvY




Thanks for the in depth response. The thing about NASCAR that reminds me of our V8 series is the way people follow their favourite driver. Here it is also following brands, especially when it was just Ford v Holden (General Motors). I am aware that NASCAR is predominantly a southern hobby. I can get out a few 'y'alls' if I have to.


@ 43:00
« Last Edit: March 06, 2015, 04:46:49 PM by Greyman »

Re: NASCAR (what is the attraction?)
« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2015, 11:47:22 AM »

Offline LatterDayCelticsfan

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Don't know very much about NASCAR, But as far as racing goes, I like to see the driver's capacity to balance raw speed with braking, and handling tested. I mean, those situations where two drivers push each other into a 60 degrees right, left, right chicane, who gets position to accelerate into the straight kind of thing. Otherwise I feel the race misses something
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Re: NASCAR (what is the attraction?)
« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2015, 12:15:08 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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I went to a NASCAR race weekend a few years back as a friend's bachelor party.

Had an absolute blast...with the exception of the actual race which was so mind-numbingly boring that a bunch of us just left and went back to drinking in the RVs.  I'm just not a car or car race kind of guy.  But the atmosphere was a lot of fun.

Re: NASCAR (what is the attraction?)
« Reply #10 on: March 06, 2015, 12:49:40 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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What I don't get is the attraction of the oval tracks?

it's special to those who realize it's just a big metaphor for life -- we all just keeping spinning our wheels and going in circles ;D

Re: NASCAR (what is the attraction?)
« Reply #11 on: March 06, 2015, 02:00:47 PM »

Offline Kuberski33

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I enjoy NASCAR, though I'm a fairly new fan.  It's a nice replacement for football on Sunday afternoons as watching baseball on TV is like watching paint dry and there's plenty of basketball on throughout the week.  Some races are snooze fests but you also have some with great finishes and occasionally you get some incidents where the drivers have at it either in their cars or outside of their cars, which makes things interesting.  Post race interviews after situations like that are usually fun.   

Watching on TV is interesting because you get some insight into the strategies and you do get drivers and crew chiefs willing to roll the dice and take chances, so it can be very compelling. 

I do wish the competition were a bit more balanced. Usually the guys from the small, lesser financed teams have very little chance of winning, though once in a while there's a surprise.